Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Editing programs

  • 27-10-2003 1:12pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 El Marco


    I suppose I'll get the ball rolling and ask what's the best A/V editing software. I have an interest in this area but the software I've used have been very limited, with just basic cut and paste options.


«13456789

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ bambam


    I've used Adobe Premier 6.5 for knocking up a couple of family wedding videos. Its got a bit of a learning curve but well work it in the end.

    The good points are -
    1) multi channel control of audio & video.
    This is very powerful as it allows you to have up to 3 tracks of video (& 3 of audio) and placing tracing transitions is real easy

    2) transitions - lots of and loads of plugins around
    Also performs realtime rendering of the tranistions. Makes working on the video really easy

    3) Titler - really nifty, fair few themes to choose (like wedding :) )

    4) Sound editing - really easy & logical to get your head around. Great for effects and fades.

    5) Can drag and drop a load of photos onto a video channel. Premier will render them by showing each for a few secs.

    Bad points -
    1) no auto detect of scenes. This might be added in the latest version (pro).

    2) not great support for dvd - you get a lite version of some crappy dvd creator product - best off get your own for this.

    3) Slow conversion from DV to Mpeg 2 (for DVD)
    Note you can improve this by downloading an updated encoder from the third party that Adobe use - for free

    I've only really scratched the surface from an amatuer perspective - but a great product to use. And the gotcha - 700 bucks - lot of money - have a go at the eval version of ye are curious.


    IF you're into something a bit more lightweight you could try Dell Movie Studio Plus. My mate got it with his Dell. Full of wizards and hand holding - good for simple quick stuff.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,414 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ DeVore


    How easy is it to do more then just transitions? can you merge areas of two video streams and continue playing etc?

    Been thinking about trying my hand at a 3 minute extreme-sports video for Boards.


    DeV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,183 Jim


    have a mac? get final cut pro, or express. costly though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ davil


    Just like the MAC itself. Don't waste your money. Windows is almost as good as Mac OS and the PC hardware is easily as good if not better. I won't lie - the MAC is probably better for Video Editing [final cut pro is a great program as far as I can see] but the PC can do it without much hassle at all and costs about a quarter of the price. If you're willing to pay through the nose go for the MAC though.

    I've used Adobe Premiere 6.5 myself and found it excellent in most areas except, as said, DVD production, but you should get your own solution for that anyway. It's a video editing product primarily and its transitions and the ability to overlay is all I want because I am a beginner. I still believe that you can do all the pro stuff on a pc. If I am wrong then I apologise to all you MAC users out there.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 33,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pickarooney


    Pinnacle Edition (Pro) is the donkey's whatsits, for a few nicker under a grand (with AGP card) or 600 blib (without). The DVD editing and burning part is very solid and all integrated nicely.
    Looks a lot prettier than Premiere 6.x too, though I haven't seen Premiere Pro yet.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭ Gordon


    I'm sure you're right davil. I use a 500 mhz iMac with Final cut Pro, it does fine although the renders take frickin ages to do. Make sure you have a bitch fast computer with a hefty chunk of RAM, although I hear that the later versions of FCP have behind the scenes rendering.

    What exactly do you mean by merging two streams DeV?


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,414 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ DeVore


    well basically I'd like to do a bit more then the "Wedding Video" style transitions between one bit of video and the next.... I was thinking about playing around with some special effects and what have you. you know freezing things in the background and having only the foreground move or overlaying one bit of video onto part of the other.... etc ("masks" is that what they are called?)

    DeV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭ Gordon


    You mean like blue screen type thing? Cut out a person walking from a scene in a street and paste the person onto a mountain side with a snowboarder screaming towards him? Or a square of footage within a square of footage? If it is the former then I think that would be tricky to do on FCP although I have the old version, if it is the latter I don't think it should be a problem. I'll startup FCP in a day or so when I get settled into my new place (I found a flat), but give me a more exact idea of what you mean, I can't quite visualise what you are talking about.

    Or maybe someone else would be better to answer this. Btw Dustaz should be a fount of knowledge on this board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ bambam


    green screen stuff is called Chroma Key (or just Keying). Done easily in Premiere. For video overlays, easy, as far as I can see - using the different video tracks - and also you can define masks (in photoshop) and use them. have a read here http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ashley.middleton/dtv/adobepremiere/premiere_tutorials/premiere_tutorial7.htm

    On the note of dvd production - I had a play around with Adobe Encode - again bula bos for Adobe, an absolute winner of a program - very powerful and easy to pick up. You can create menus and burn dvd's in a couple of mins. Lots of pro level stuff like region encoding and macrovison - you know the stuff we all dislike :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,810 lodgepole


    Adobe Premiere is my personal favorite, and when used in conjuntion with Sound Forge, Adobe After Effects and Photoshop it's pretty much capable of anything.

    We use Avid in college with the beta decks and I don't like it even half as much.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,862 mycroft


    Is a bit out of your league there devore. I know the stuff you mean, and that roams into seriously expensive kit, and serious amounts of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭ Hugh_C


    Originally posted by DeVore
    well basically I'd like to do a bit more then the "Wedding Video" style transitions between one bit of video and the next.... I was thinking about playing around with some special effects and what have you. you know freezing things in the background and having only the foreground move or overlaying one bit of video onto part of the other.... etc ("masks" is that what they are called?)

    DeV.

    you need an avid, mate.

    Avid

    For the serious amateur, I think they've a free version of a basic cutter, but the professional software is awesome.

    It is THE industry standard.

    I've been using it for about 10 years and haven't used anything even vaguely comparable in terms of ease of use and capabilities.

    I would suggest that you learn the skills of editing first before ploughing into effects work, you'll only get blinded by technology and won't be sufficiently aware of narrative thread etc etc. Effects work will inevitably look sh1t if it's created on cheap/nasty software.

    Brush up on your cutting, then think about effects.

    Dustaz will corroborate.

    hC


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭ innisfree


    Hmm... mostly solid info, but would like to add a few things.

    Premiere doesn't limit itself to just 3 video and 3 audio tracks. You can add more if needed. I wouldn't touch the thing if it had only 3.

    If you're mentioning Avid in terms of being an industry standard and in a league of its own, you gotta mention Discreets uber-expensive editing packages also (Combustion, Fire, etc). They're beginning to take over from Avid in a lot of film houses and definitely have a strong grasp in the industry nowadays.

    Nothing too important, but those points just niggled me a little.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭ Hugh_C


    Originally posted by innisfree
    If you're mentioning Avid in terms of being an industry standard and in a league of its own, you gotta mention Discreets uber-expensive editing packages also (Combustion, Fire, etc). They're beginning to take over from Avid in a lot of film houses and definitely have a strong grasp in the industry nowadays.

    Combustion is lacking as a cutting tool, brilliant for compositing and other effects work, but absolutely not a cutting tool. Couldn't cut butter!

    As regards Discreet, I have only experience of flame* and inferno and have never used fire. Sadly though, Discreet's policy of charging their customers extortionate prices makes most of their products inacessible to ordinary Joes. flame* is amazing at what it is designed for, but if i need to cut something, an Avid is what I'll use. Also, Discreet, unlike Avid, has effectively banned 3rd party storage solutions using software, and charge an arm and a leg for a Discreet-badged disk array. Avid, on the other hand, don't support 3rd party devices, but you can still hook 'em up and the system will work.

    Combustion is becoming popular in post houses because it is relatively cheap, therefore buyers are often prepared to purchase enough licences and cheap staff to perform boring, tedious and repetitive tasks like wire removal or clean-up. Ain't for cutting though...

    hC


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,183 Jim


    perhaps a bit odd, but what the suite with all the sharks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭ Hugh_C


    Originally posted by Jimeatsmenu
    perhaps a bit odd, but what the suite with all the sharks?

    huh?

    lightworks? heavyworks?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭ innisfree


    Hughchal - but, I was lumping Combustion together with the other Discreet products and not citing it on its own. It goes with Flame, Flint, Inferno and all those. It's released by Discreet also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,810 DRakE


    FCP is the only reason to own a Mac nowadays.

    I hadn't used one until the start of this year, and by jesus it's a whole lot easier and more friendly to use than premier 6.5


    FCP! That said, Dustaz tells me avid the "the shít"


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭ Dustaz


    Originally posted by hughchal

    I would suggest that you learn the skills of editing first before ploughing into effects work, you'll only get blinded by technology and won't be sufficiently aware of narrative thread etc etc. Effects work will inevitably look sh1t if it's created on cheap/nasty software.

    Brush up on your cutting, then think about effects.

    Dustaz will corroborate.

    hC

    The above is the truest thing youll read on this forum so far. Its also said by someone who should know as hes one of Ireland, if not Europes best editors (thats a pint for me hugh :) )

    Editing is much more about pace and 'feel' than cheap effects. Its something that can only really be learned properly by doing. god knows, im still learning and i get paid for it.

    Effects can add to a cut but they can just as easily detract and distract, especially if there is no real reason to use an effect other than just "WHOA, LENS FLARE!" :)


    Also, Avid > *


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,862 mycroft


    lightworks? heavyworks?

    Yes it's light/heavyworks, had the misfortune to be working on it earlier in the year, one of the most annoying, obtuse, purposefully complicated expensive systems in the world.

    Generally only used by old film editors cause the interface is based around the old steenbeck interface.....

    Storage and filing are even worse, arranged in a very literal series of doors, and folders, which is okay again if your understanding of computers is very basic, but for this generation (editors and assistants who grew up with computers) it's unneccessarily complex and doesn't obey basic computer rules, and logic that you've learnt file handling on a mac or pc

    Although in the PR they say it's making a comeback, I pray it ain't true.

    Innsfree, yup the whole discreet thing is true, I don't know of a single post house who use them for cutting (unless it's a very effects heavy commerical, where most of the designing and mapping is being done in the suite), it's avid all the way.


  • Advertisement
  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,414 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ DeVore


    You guys know like... LOTS :)

    Please welcome the only person I know who edits video and doesnt work in a porn shop: Dustaz... you're new Moderator.

    DeV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭ Dustaz


    Fear :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 dangerman


    Effects can add to a cut but they can just as easily detract and distract, especially if there is no real reason to use an effect other than just "WHOA, LENS FLARE!"

    Yeah, very true, remember the simpsons where Homer is making the dating video for flanders? 'Ok Star Wipe, star wipe, starwipe and then starwipe ....'

    i've used premier for cutting 3ds max anims and found it very good, i found it quick to get the basics down etc.

    BTW. If anyone has any DV equipment they'd like to donate to me, let me know. For no other reason other than I can't afford it myself. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 angelofdeath


    great forum, bout time someone did an av forum, anywho i dabble in cs movie making and i use videomach, acdsee32, divx, rostrum (great little piece of freeware for paning and zooming bitmaps, use it for end credits), whats the best tool for adding effects, thats easy to use?:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭ Dustaz


    After Effects is fairly easy to get to grips with and it can do some interesting things.

    Video Vegas is another one, i think theres a trial version of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭ Hugh_C


    Originally posted by DRakE
    FCP is the only reason to own a Mac nowadays.

    I take it you're not keen on Mac. OK so not everybody is perfect :p

    Panther (OS X / 10.3) is simply unparalleled as an operating system. Stuff just works effortlessly.

    [ASIDE]

    I concede though, that games aren't as easy to come by, but there again my years of gamerdom have sadly passed, having been superceded by a precocious pair of kids who ask hard questions ALL THE TIME.

    After a few interruptions of 'Dad, why is that guy lying on the ground with blood pouring out of his neck?', I hung up my calloused thumbs and retreated to the safe world of Monsters Inc.

    [/ASIDE]

    Happy cutting.

    Oh and Dustaz, your cheque's in the post...

    hC


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 Miguel_Sanchez


    I'd recommend Avid Film Composer or Express. Final Cut Pro is catching up fast though.

    Avid is the industry standard AFAIK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,862 mycroft


    Film composer is fine if you have about oooohhhh €70 Grand. And comparing film composer to express doesn't help. One is a jumbo jet the other is a golf gti. And you don't go down to the shops in a jumbo jet, it's not pratical. The best editing software is the one that suits your needs. You want simple cheap, go with Premier, more advance FCP or express, effects go with discreet, and serious editing check out media composer or if it's a film composer.

    I think annoucing which is the best is silly, it depends on what you use and always remember "knowing how to use avid/FCP/premier does not make you an editor, knowing how to edit makes you an editor, and you should be flexible and learn to adapt to different platforms.

    Meanwhile has anyone actually heard or used the film option in FCP4? They claim it's "true" 24fps editing, but the technical explanation I heard is that it's a fools gold version. Mind you that hasn't stopped Walter Mursch cutting cold mountain on it.

    Also has anyone used avid "news" I hear thats what RTE newsroom use.

    Theres a very good article on why "scrubs" is cut on FCP here

    http://www.editorsguild.com/newsletter/NovDec03/novdec03_scrubs_fcp4.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ bambam


    interesting article, could any of you A/V heads care to explain some ot the terms for the layman ?

    + diff between online and offline
    + effects like tracking ??
    + trimming
    + what kind of res does Super-16 give

    BTW, these guys work with awesome hardware. Best I've dealt with is round robin into twin Sun Starfires :)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,810 lodgepole


    + diff between online and offline

    Quality and hence speed and space. And the main factor, which relies on both speed and space, and that's money. Offline editing is cheaper because the quality is lower, so you can get creative with time to spare. Online is more expensive but is top quality. You do an offline edit, create an Edit Decision List and send that and all your (labeled and time coded) tapes to the online editor who does the whole job sans creativity in a short amount of time. That was a shockingly bad explanation, but you should get the idea.


Advertisement