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01-08-2005, 20:09   #46
normar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wibbs
I've made the point that your philosophy of total nudity would not be shared by any other culture, even those in what some would call the sparsely clothed "natural" state.
We grow weary or your distortions of what naturism is about.

What naturists in Ireland seek are legally designated clothing optional areas where they can practice and enjoy the pleasure of being naked in company with other tolerant people and groups. It is not much to ask that this be granted by the Government, and represents just another aspect of human freedom of expression

If you have difficulty with this then that's ok.... naturism is not for everyone.
We will leave it at that and agree to differ with you.

We will continue however to promote for the right to choose to be naked in a non offensive and socially accepted environment.
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02-08-2005, 02:10   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normar
What is so wrong about a 50 plus male in Germany (or any other nationality for that matter) playing badminton in the nude that you see fit to "laugh out loud" at them. By what standard or by what right do you feel that you are able to judge people in this way.

The camping ground was not a "clothing optional" location. Hence my appropriated right to make a comment and to have a giggle over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normar
Please Athena 2000, this post smacks of ageism, sexism and racism. I'm sure that it was meant just to be flippant but it comes across as quite sneering.
Yes, my comment was flippant, and meant to be flippant. There would be absolutely no doubt in your mind if I had intended to sneer. Don't assume the worst!



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02-08-2005, 09:20   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normar
Why can't we let people live their lives as they enjoy them? What is so wrong about a 50 plus male in Germany (or any other nationality for that matter) playing badminton in the nude that you see fit to "laugh out loud" at them. By what standard or by what right do you feel that you are able to judge people in this way.
Please Athena 2000, this post smacks of ageism, sexism and racism. I'm sure that it was meant just to be flippant but it comes across as quite sneering.
Ageism, sexism and racism? Jeez it's a bit early for 'isms, don't you think? For a start where is the sexism? I'm sure if the person in question was a woman, the reaction would have been the same. Ageism possibly , but the racism is your silly assumption alone. The "race" card. How very mature. Athena 2000 never mentioned the man's nationality. He could have been from Wicklow for all you know.

BTW. I do find it funny that although the guy was naked the only clothing he was wearing was a major fashion no no. Sandals and socks. Now I'm LOL
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02-08-2005, 15:17   #49
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Originally Posted by athena 2000
[size=2]
The camping ground was not a "clothing optional" location. Hence my appropriated right to make a comment and to have a giggle over it.
This is just a load of superior snobbery.

This is a discussion on naturistism thread, why can't you at least offer a story about what you may have seen on or in a naturist designated area instead of using what you would consider some fool to make a point against naturism.

If you want to laugh and giggle at other people then please get your own thread, ( you could call it the sniggering at other people thread) and leave this one to a discussion on naturism.
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03-08-2005, 01:03   #50
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Originally Posted by normar
This is just a load of superior snobbery.

This is a discussion on naturistism thread, why can't you at least offer a story about what you may have seen on or in a naturist designated area instead of using what you would consider some fool to make a point against naturism.

If you want to laugh and giggle at other people then please get your own thread, ( you could call it the sniggering at other people thread) and leave this one to a discussion on naturism.
Am I spending too much time in the company of other naturists? Have I grown too accustomed to having conversations free of pretence, malice, and pettiness? Do I need to spend more time with "ordinary" people, and get used to their inflated egos, arrogance, and neurotic insecurities? Nahhh. Only kidding. Not all textiles are like the resident expert on just about everything from anthropology to psychosexuality and all things in between.
Once again I say Well Done to Mick and Nora for bringing up this subject in a forum as accessible as this.
I doubt that the anti-naturist comments in this thread are broadly representative of textile Ireland. County Councils, Gardai, coastal land owners, and other commentators in the media have mostly adopted a "live and let live" attitude. There is something unwholesome, almost sleazy, about some of the anti-naturist comments in this thread. I suspect that the sad people who harrass naturist women and men are on the same wave length as those who speak against it.
I look forward to the day when every coastal region in Ireland has its share of attractive beaches where we may bathe nude, and enjoy the experience without having to answer to village idiots on the net.
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03-08-2005, 10:38   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corkonian1
Am I spending too much time in the company of other naturists? Have I grown too accustomed to having conversations free of pretence, malice, and pettiness? Do I need to spend more time with "ordinary" people, and get used to their inflated egos, arrogance, and neurotic insecurities? Nahhh. Only kidding.
You must live in a very happy place indeed. I hear the sound of drums being arythmically banged by new agers among the green trees......
Quote:
Not all textiles are like the resident expert on just about everything from anthropology to psychosexuality and all things in between.
Well being a pornography addled women degrading dilettante takes some work. I'm gratified to find myself an expert as well. Do I get a certificate?

Quote:
I doubt that the anti-naturist comments in this thread are broadly representative of textile Ireland.
Textile Ireland. This gets better and better.
Quote:
County Councils, Gardai, coastal land owners, and other commentators in the media have mostly adopted a "live and let live" attitude.
As do I, it's the naturists that seem to go on the defensive, if some "comments" are anything to go by.
Quote:
There is something unwholesome, almost sleazy, about some of the anti-naturist comments in this thread. I suspect that the sad people who harrass naturist women and men are on the same wave length as those who speak against it.
Sleazy, unwholesome and an harrasser now? The list goes on and on.
Quote:
I look forward to the day when every coastal region in Ireland has its share of attractive beaches where we may bathe nude, and enjoy the experience without having to answer to village idiots on the net.
Now it seems I can add villiage idiot to my list of qualifications. My cup truely overfloweth with compliments.

FYI Lists of insults do not an argument make. You may find this information useful in life. Take it and use it with my compliments.

The way pollution is going the attractive beaches bit is to be hoped for anyway.
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03-08-2005, 22:31   #52
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Originally Posted by Wibbs
I don't see how I'm contradicting myself TBH.

In any event I would suggest clothing has been around for a lot longer than 50,000 yrs. Neandertals lived in Europe for 200,000 yrs through successive ice ages. They certainly had clothing. There's even some(admittedly scant) evidence that Homo Erectus had some form of clothing and that takes us back into the millions of years range. We ourselves, as a species are around for at least 100,000 yrs, so 50,000 years is a bit too recent a date for clothing.
The point I was trying to make was that if hair loss was due to wearing clothes, how come there are people who wear hardly any clothes, as Wibbs agrees, who are just as hairless as the rest of us? Their ancestors didn't lose their hair through wearing clothes.

If we have been around for 100,000 years (rather more, I think, actually) how does that prove that we couldn't have lost our hair 50,000 years ago? I don't think losing hair would have made us a different species.

I would be interested to see your evidence for Neanderthals wearing clothes 200,000 years ago and Homo erectus wearing clothes millions of years ago. To quote from an article 'Human hair: The bare truth' in The Economist, Dec 18th 2003, which mentions the theories that hair loss occurred when humans lived aquatically or that it was due to pest infestation, and comes out in favour of the theory that it was to keep cool:
"Robin Dunbar, of the University of Liverpool, ... argues that when humans invaded the open plains, hair loss doubled the distance they could travel on a pint of water. Moreover, the presence or absence of hair clearly affects insulation because hair length changes on animals in different environments: elephants in cold places became the woolly mammoth. And it is now thought that humans started wearing clothes rather recently—work on the genetics and evolutionary origins of clothes lice suggests they first appeared some time between 30,000 and 114,000 years ago—certainly far too late to explain why humans lost most of their hair."
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03-08-2005, 23:50   #53
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Originally Posted by corkonian1
Not all textiles are like the resident expert on just about everything from anthropology to psychosexuality and all things in between.
We have sympathy (empathy?)for you feelings dear friend corkonian1, but we as a naturist couple have decided to try to steer the discussion back to the core of the subject.
We have profound disagreements with the views offered by Wibbs. However we do respect Wibbs for his/her persistance in responding to our views on naturism. Though in general we find them negative to the practice of spontaineous or organised communal nudity, within agreed and legally accepted areas in a non offensive way.
The view we offered that naturists seek provision of designated and recognised areas for naturists to meet is always ignored and instead there is a constant repetition by him/her about nudists looking to be nude "in public" wrongly and unfairly suggesting that naturists want to be nude anywhere at any time in public.
It is of course frustrating to find that a core principle or demand if you like, of naturists is distorted in this way.
We do enjoy that the discussion has at times broadened out to inclide historical developments in relation to humans and clothing, like the contributions of EARNST and find this informative. At least it allows us to weigh up the merits of these issues and judge for ourselves what may be the best development.
If we may be so bold as to refresh the original core question we posed. Why is it that Irish people will enjoy nudism on foreign beaches while on holidays, and seem so afarid or reluctant to enjoy or practice it at home on Irish beaches? People suggest the weather, and to a degree this is maybe the biggest part. But there are some fine beautiful warm days in Ireland too, and we enjoy them together when they come.
No, we believe there are other things at work in Ireland, to cause naturism to be enjoyed by such a minority. We thinks it's such a pity.
After all if someone who is not in disagreement..."with nakedness itself" can consistently argue against communal nudity in publicly accepted designated areas by saying... "Full nakedness(and the promotion of same) carries a loaded social message".... well we had better prepare for what is to come from those who are very much opposed to nudity or "nakedness itself."
For Nora and I nudity in agreed naturist areas as just another expression of human development and personal choice. We enjoy the feeling of being nude in nature together and we seek to promote the confidence it can give people who are at peace with their bodies of whatever shape, size or colour.
All are welcome and we or our club won't laugh or giggle or snigger at anyone and never have.

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07-08-2005, 00:05   #54
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This thread reminds me of some online discussions I have read about the Travellers. Once you get past the unkind and badly informed stereotypes, the discussion settles down into something more like real debate, where people's positions are replaced by genuine willingness to learn. Just like most people never get the chance to meet Travellers in a social setting (they are mostly unable to get in!!!!) most never meet naturists in a social setting because they can not recognise them as they are clothed! Hence, they can not ask questions or put their own opinions or ideas in a relaxed atmosphere.
So I will take the plunge and say a few of my own ideas about naturists, and say how I became involved, and finish with comments in response to Mick and Nora's original post.
I think that naturists fall into three broad categories:
1. People who simply like the sun's rays on their bodies, and are happy to go nude in the privacy of their own gardens when the weather allows.
2. People who value social nudity, and show this by attending organised naturist events, or spend time in recognised areas where naturists gather. They share acceptance of their own and other's bodies without regard to figure, age, or appearance.
3. People who promote social nudity as a reaction against the popular but naive belief that nudity can only occur in the context of sexual arousal.

In the third category above, I think that this belief probably begins with adolescent experience of sexual arousal, when teenagers of both sexes are easily stimulated by images of nakedness or semi-nakedness. Advertisers and pornographers try to ensure that we don't grow up, i.e. that we stay stuck in this adolescent state. They attempt this by sexualising and exploiting the image of the naked body solely for profit. Naturists in the third category believe that we have a right to reclaim the image of our naked bodies as something other than a commodity to be marketed.
By the way, nothing in this suggests that naturists do not enjoy healthy sexual relationships. If anything, we are probably much more relaxed about sex, as we benefit from having a good understanding of other human beings, and we are generally happy and confident with our own bodies, no matter what shape or size we are!
How I became involved with naturism was an accident. On a visit to Munich many moons ago, I went with friends to a public park called the English Gardens. Actually there was nothing much there that reminded me of England, the only sign of any cultural heritage being a giant pagoda.
Anyway, as we wandered through the park, we walked into an area where entire families were walking around without a stitch on. I was horrified. My friends who were living and working in Munich tricked me into going there, just to see my reaction. I met a female (Irish) companion there and she sensed my unease, so she just went topless. We talked for ages about how this would be unthinkable on Fountainstown beach near Cork, but that in this context it was different, as it was officially designated as clothing optional.
I went home to Ireland, and thought a lot about it. About 5 years later I took the plunge and went on a sun holiday where I knew there were recognised naturist beaches. This was on Menorca, at a resort called Santo Tomas. It was a sleepy place, but the beaches are magnificent. The quietest beach, Bini Gauss, was frequented mostly by local Menorquin naturists. Everyone from newborn baby to granny and granddad went there. Sometimes I met people working in bars and restaurants, who would go for a skinny dip on their afternoons off. It was naturist heaven. I would have long conversations with people on holiday there, like me who were getting into the practice.
When I came home I joined the INA and since then have gone nude at the less travelled spots on many Irish beaches. I have introduced naturism to a couple of friends, and have spoken with family and work colleagues openly about it. I learned that some of the latter already go nude regularly on holiday, but never in Ireland.
In reply to Mick and Nora's question, I think the clue lies in people staying with the familiar, and I do think it has something to do with the weather too. It is true that we get many fine days here, but the weather is so unpredictable, the critical mass of a certain level of naturist activity is still a little too low for it to be recognised and accepted. I think that if we had more regular sunny weekend days in particular, naturists would be more likely to meet and recognise each other on the naturist beaches.
In the meantime, the minority who do go bare on Irish beaches risk being singled out as being very different, but you know what? I don't mind. Only the live fish swim against the stream.

Last edited by corkonian1; 07-08-2005 at 10:44.
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07-08-2005, 20:19   #55
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I do think it has something to do with the weather too. It is true that we get many fine days here, but the weather is so unpredictable, the critical mass of a certain level of naturist activity is still a little too low for it to be recognised and accepted. I think that if we had more regular sunny weekend days in particular, naturists would be more likely to meet and recognise each other on the naturist beaches.
In the meantime, the minority who do go bare on Irish beaches risk being singled out as being very different, but you know what? I don't mind. Only the live fish swim against the stream.
What you say does make sense to us. There are simple not enough good sunny days back to back to give naturists a regular and consequently more accepted profile in Irish society.
Those of us who enjoy being naked on Irish beaches and elswhere are possibly looked on as "different" and people can be unsure and perhaps ignorant of things that are different. That's understandable.
That said, we still will encourage couples and individuals to embrace naturism and enjoy the feeling of wellbeing and confidence it can bring to you, not to mention the friends you can make who are accepting of you as an individual. A nude individual true, but an individual nonetheless.
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21-01-2006, 01:43   #56
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Naturism on Irish Beaches

Well the Summer time will once again be upon us and with it the continuing request to those who think they may enjoy naturism to get down to their nearest naturist tolerated beach.
For a list of beaches and for more information search google for naturism in Ireland where you will find the location of your nearest naturist tolerated beach.
Give yourself the enjoyment of feeling the sun, wind and water on your naked body. Share the feeling with your loved one and family. Wonderful.

Nora and Mick
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21-01-2006, 16:09   #57
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They're ba-ack........ Must be some buzz in dangling ones wobbly bits in the wind and sun to engender this much passion and almost missionary zeal. I'm off to get the hairdryer and heat lamp to see what all the fuss is about.
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23-01-2006, 12:41   #58
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Are you sure there are no official naturist beaches in Ireland?
There's one just before Killiney, and you can see EVERYTHING when you go past on the DART as they're right beside the line, lying on the cliffs...it's not very nice!
Hawks cliff. It is not "official" it is painted on the wall of the bridge when you go over though. I go there a bit (not in the raw), I have heard regulars talking about it and white rock, sometimes they go to white rock on sundays and have been in trouble with the law, thought there is never trouble at hawks cliff, probably because it is an unsuitable swimming area for children, though I have seen kids in the paddling pool bit. They are mostly 40-70 year olds, mostly around 50-60.

Why do Irish people not do it, very simple, Ireland is a tiny place and you will risk meeting people you know. The guy who does it on holidays is on a designated nude beach so if they even do run the risk of running into somebody they know, it is likely the other person will be naked too, so equal embarrassment. At the hawks cliff place in the summer there are far more clothed people than nudists. A lot of the regular nude swimmers cover up at busy times, and I presume it is because of this, or generally feeling out of place.

It is like people being able to "score" on holidays, or dublin guys going down the country and scoring country girls. They don't care too much as they will likely never see the person again, no small town gossip. You dont want to be asking the young girl in the butchers for a pound of white pudding after she saw your own earlier that day.

Also cold weather=shrinkage!

Last edited by rubadub; 23-01-2006 at 12:44.
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23-01-2006, 13:50   #59
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I thought not wearing clothes was a nudest, not a naturalist

As someone pointed out earlier it isn't "natural" (from a purely biological sense, not talking about morality) not to wear clothes all the time, so someone saying this is the natural state of a human being is incorrect. The natural state of a human is to wear some form of protective cloth over their bodies. Otherwise we would all still be covered in thick hair.

Anyway, I would be all for allowing nudest beaches so long as they are clearly sign posted. Having seens (but not taken part in mind) a nudest beach in Europe I can safely say that the horny teenage fantasy that a nudest beach is loads of young women and men rolling around having sex is a little off the mark. The one I saw was a load of middle aged, slightly over weight, hairy people lying around drinking bottles of coke and eating sandwitches.
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23-01-2006, 13:58   #60
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No nudist and naturist are the similar/same ones. A naturalist is like david bellamy or richard attenborough
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