HBO temporarily pulls Gone with the Wind from streaming

Sad Professor · 10-06-2020 8:42am #1

In a statement, HBO Max said “Gone With the Wind” is a “product of its time and depicts some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that have, unfortunately, been commonplace in American society.” When the movie returns to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions, but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history.”
[...]
On Monday, John Ridley, who won an Oscar for the adapted screenplay for the movie “12 Years a Slave,” a brutal look at slavery in the U.S., wrote an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times calling for “Gone With the Wind” to be taken off HBO Max. “It is a film that glorifies the antebellum south. It is a film that, when it is not ignoring the horrors of slavery, pauses only to perpetuate some of the most painful stereotypes of people of color.” Mr. Ridley wrote. The film, he said, perpetuates “the racism that’s causing angry and grieving Americans to take to the streets.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pulls-gone-with-the-wind-11591754904

Thoughts?

sydthebeat · 10-06-2020 8:46am

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

History is there to be recognised and learned from.

This "washing" of racism from our history is illogical and dangerous.

whisky_galore · 10-06-2020 8:49am

The removal of one ancient movie will put everything right.

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2020 8:50am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

History is there to be recognised and learned from.

This "washing" of racism from our history is illogical and dangerous.

Read the whole article!

"When the movie returns to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions,

but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history.”

Nothing is being removed. Something is being added.

PsychoPete · 10-06-2020 8:54am

Where do you draw the line with this kind of stuff ? This culture of wanting pull every film,song,book and TV show that any reference to racism is ridiculous

sydthebeat · 10-06-2020 8:56am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Read the whole article!

"When the movie returns to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions,

but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history.”

Nothing is being removed. Something is being added.

Nothing being removed??

It literally says the movie is being removed from HBO. did you miss that part?

Yes it says it shall return with a disclaimer, but doesn't mention when.

10-06-2020 8:57am

Practically every religious film portraying the life of Jesus will need to be pulled. Or have something added.

Not to mention every sacred heart picture in Irish homes being on dodgy ground.

joeguevara · 10-06-2020 9:04am

To Kill a Mocking Bird and Of Mice and Men are just two examples of literary masterpieces that have been removed from the curriculum and indeed banned in many US States. Absolutely deplorable and with no merit or value.

WengerOutIn · 10-06-2020 9:06am

Gladiator has slaves. Spartacus needs to go. We need to remove anything built by the Romans and Greeks. There is a pretty big list that needs sorting before we can put this matter to rest. Also, I am sure that a lot of Muslim architecture pre 1850 should be investigated for the use of slavery too. All slaves matter.

10-06-2020 9:08am

joeguevara wrote: »

To Kill a Mocking Bird and Of Mice and Men are just two examples of literary masterpieces that have been removed from the curriculum and indeed banned in many US States. Absolutely deplorable and with no merit or value.

Why was TKAMB book removed? Pulled from certain Southern states?

OMAM, I've not read, but seen the film years ago and likewise can't imagine why pulled.

sydthebeat · 10-06-2020 9:08am

joeguevara wrote: »

To Kill a Mocking Bird and Of Mice and Men are just two examples of literary masterpieces that have been removed from the curriculum and indeed banned in many US States. Absolutely deplorable and with no merit or value.

It is completely illogical to remove works of art that shine a blazing spotlight on racism such as "to kill a mockingbird" in the argument that highlighting racism is somehow racist in itself.

It stinks of "history denying" to me, which is a very dangerous road to go down

GooglePlus · 10-06-2020 9:09am

Like one poster has already said, erasing the past won't fix the future.

It's a dangerous route that is being taken and leaves the way clear for others to do the same with other historical pieces in order to suit their agenda.

jprender · 10-06-2020 9:10am

WengerOutIn wrote: »

Gladiator has slaves. Spartacus needs to go. We need to remove anything built by the Romans and Greeks. There is a pretty big list that needs sorting before we can put this matter to rest. Also, I am sure that a lot of Muslim architecture pre 1850 should be investigated for the use of slavery too. All slaves matter.

The pyramids need tearing down also.

There’s gonna be loads of work going.

Padre_Pio · 10-06-2020 9:13am

Is Breakfast at Tiffany's going to be banned?

Father Ted?
"I hear you're a racist now Father"

No one is watching Gone with the Wind and thinking ,"Jeez, I wanna be just like them".

Mousewar · 10-06-2020 9:13am

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered.
And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984

RwandaRed · 10-06-2020 9:14am

I read a tweet earlier from somebody prophesizing that it won't be long until the first library pulls Harry Potter books from their shelves.

Given the current mood, it's not as crazy as it might sound.

Only thing I would say, half of the UK didn't know who Edward Colston and Robert Milligan were until their statues were hauled down.

WengerOutIn · 10-06-2020 9:17am

jprender wrote: »

The pyramids need tearing down also.

There’s gonna be loads of work going.

Ah jeepers, I forgot about them yoks. Need to round up the lads. At least the hanging gardens of Babylon are gone, so one less to worry about.

Rockbeast2 · 10-06-2020 9:20am

This is the Khmer Rouge's Year Zero in action all over again.

I expect a lot of art will be repositioned in the current far-left swinging social narrative, hidden, or destroyed.

y0ssar1an22 · 10-06-2020 9:20am

joeguevara wrote: »

To Kill a Mocking Bird and Of Mice and Men are just two examples of literary masterpieces that have been removed from the curriculum and indeed banned in many US States. Absolutely deplorable and with no merit or value.

and in 50 years will sadly be forgotten about

PsychoPete · 10-06-2020 9:24am

Surely Volkswagen has to go aswell

johnny_ultimate · 10-06-2020 9:37am

TBH, while I think pulling the film temporarily is pretty silly and unnecessary, I find it hard to be irate or concerned about this when the film is still going to be available on this one streaming platform in its full, uncensored version in due course (and is still readily available in Ireland if you want to watch it). I have watched great films of historical importance as they always were, just occasionally with a clear note at the start explaining its context. I have zero issue with that. Pulling Gone With The Wind for a few days or weeks achieves nothing IMO, but I have no problem with a note added to the start or a ‘discussion’ bookending it.

TBH there are very few films that are actively suppressed for their questionable portrayal of race. Song of the South is the obvious one. I absolutely think that should be more readily available due its historical value, although equally can see why it’s not being ‘actively’ promoted by Disney. But I think it’s important for cinema history enthusiasts to be able to watch the film easily and in high quality. I mean, Birth of the Nation still (rightly) gets Blu-Ray releases even though it’s (rightly) seen as the most racist piece of work in the classic film canon.

silverharp · 10-06-2020 10:22am

is it a bit cliched to want to watch it now?, I think I may have seen it as a kid

pixelburp · 10-06-2020 10:35am

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

This is the Khmer Rouge's Year Zero in action all over again.

I expect a lot of art will be repositioned in the current far-left swinging social narrative, hidden, or destroyed.

Tell you what, if a capitalist corporation temporarily pulling a single movie sparks the deaths of 2 million people, I'll accept calling them part of the "far left". I'll owe you .. I dunno, a coca cola

C'mon. The current mood is weird, and complex and full of lockdown-fuelled craziness, but that's just ludicrous hyperbole; and if anything really disrespects the history of Cambodia that this western cultural spat comes anywhere close.

America hasn't come to terms with its racial past - that's the nub of the problem. Look at NI or South Africa: both had public, serious commissions to talk of, and parse their prejudiced past in a "safe space". Heck even Spain decided they'd just never speak of Franco again. America ... did nothing and just carried on; worse, just looked the other way to give the former slavers time and position to legalise their dominance by other means.

The reaction is weird and full of misdirected outrage, but it was always coming in America. The centre couldn't hold any longer while it just pretended Obama ended racism, or that any kind of national discourse had taken place. Think about it: go back 3, 4 generations and great-great grandparents of African Americans were slaves. That's surreal to contemplate and still very much fresh history for some.

Ninthlife · 10-06-2020 10:37am

What about White Men Can't Jump... wheres the outrage?

WengerOutIn · 10-06-2020 10:42am

Ninthlife wrote: »

What about White Men Can't Jump... wheres the outrage?

I used to love that movie, but now I realise I am a racist nazi pig. White men can jump. I am sorry for believing al these years that white men cannot jump.

Rockbeast2 · 10-06-2020 10:44am

pixelburp wrote: »

Tell you what, if a capitalist corporation temporarily pulling a single movie sparks the deaths of 2 million people, I'll accept calling them part of the "far left". I'll owe you .. I dunno, a coca cola

C'mon. The current mood is weird, and complex and full of lockdown-fuelled craziness, but that's just ludicrous hyperbole; and if anything really disrespects the history of Cambodia that this western cultural spat comes anywhere close.

America hasn't come to terms with its racial past - that's the nub of the problem. Look at NI or South Africa: both had public, serious commissions to talk of, and parse their prejudiced past in a "safe space". Heck even Spain decided they'd just never speak of Franco again. America ... did nothing and just carried on; worse, just looked the other way to give the former slavers time and position to legalise their dominance by other means.

The reaction is weird and full of misdirected outrage, but it was always coming in America. The centre couldn't hold any longer while it just pretended Obama ended racism, or that any kind of national discourse had taken place. Think about it: go back 3, 4 generations and great-great grandparents of African Americans were slaves. That's surreal to contemplate and still very much fresh history for some.

Make it a Diet Coke. With ice and a straw.:)

These things have always played out on an incremental scale. I don't believe it's hyperbole to think they may play out that way again. Time will tell.

We'll see where we are with regard to historic films and TV series being pulled, edited, or censored in a few months.

tony1kenobi · 10-06-2020 10:55am

silverharp wrote: »

is it a bit cliched to want to watch it now?, I think I may have seen it as a kid

Nope. It’s exactly why they’ve done it. Someone in marketing will get a fat bonus next month.

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 11:00am

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Make it a Diet Coke. With ice and a straw.:)

These things have always played out on an incremental scale. I don't believe it's hyperbole to think they may play out that way again. Time will tell.

We'll see where we are with regard to historic films and TV series being pulled, edited, or censored in a few months.

If we were seeing censorship on a state level then there would be grounds for concern. This isn't what is happening at all.

You can still buy your Gone with the Wind Blu Rays or Little Britain and Come Fly with Me DVDs if that's your preference...

Claude Burgundy · 10-06-2020 11:01am

White Chicks and Coming to America should be banned also. Black actors "whiting" themselves up.

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 11:04am

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

White Chicks and Coming to America should be banned also. Black actors "whiting" themselves up.

Why, what else has been banned?

GooglePlus · 10-06-2020 11:06am

Ninthlife wrote: »

What about White Men Can't Jump... wheres the outrage?

We can jump the social ladder.

Cordell · 10-06-2020 11:11am

Sad Professor wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hbo-max-pulls-gone-with-the-wind-11591754904

Thoughts?

BS tokenism public image stunts, all of them. Anything but real action for solving real problems in the black communities, because now it's not the time to acknowledge those problems. Because, you know, if they look too much at those problems they may reach some forbidden conclusions.

Bold Abdu · 10-06-2020 11:15am

Little Britain pulled from Netflix
Cops cancelled (just noticed that mentioned in last link)
Elmer Fudd to lose his gun

Darksoul · 10-06-2020 11:16am

WengerOutIn wrote: »

Gladiator has slaves. Spartacus needs to go. We need to remove anything built by the Romans and Greeks. There is a pretty big list that needs sorting before we can put this matter to rest. Also, I am sure that a lot of Muslim architecture pre 1850 should be investigated for the use of slavery too. All slaves matter.

That's my favourite film of all time ,aren't they supposed to be making another film based on this film soon?

is_that_so · 10-06-2020 11:19am

Cordell wrote: »

BS tokenism public image stunts, all of them. Anything but real action for solving real problems in the black communities, because now it's not the time to acknowledge those problems. Because, you know, if they look too much at those problems they may reach some forbidden conclusions.

In the context of media companies it's always PR, money and not making themselves a target.

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2020 11:25am

joeguevara wrote: »

To Kill a Mocking Bird and Of Mice and Men are just two examples of literary masterpieces that have been removed from the curriculum and indeed banned in many US States. Absolutely deplorable and with no merit or value.

Southern states have also sought to pull Origin of Species as that's the kind of people they are.

Southern states have a long history of trying to and sometimes actually banning fiction and fact (see above) as they manage to be on the one hand offended by themes they decry as "filth" but on the other concern about racial language and depictions of black people - it just depends which school board/county/state you are in and when as censorship is constantly moving target.

No doubt this is informed in large part by the fact in the south they live with the legacy of Jim Crow laws and the KKK so some of the bans are almost certainly a "well meaning" attempt to reject both through cultural censorship. Wrong but somewhat understandable.

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2020 11:26am

Bold Abdu wrote: »

Little Britain pulled from Netflix
Cops cancelled (just noticed that mentioned in last link)
Elmer Fudd to lose his gun

Little Britain pulled universally by the BBC themselves.

ASOT · 10-06-2020 11:31am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Little Britain pulled universally by the BBC themselves.

And Come Fly With Me.

The world's gone mad.

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 11:31am

ASOT wrote: »

And Come Fly With Me.

The world's gone made.

It's made altogether...

10-06-2020 11:35am

ASOT wrote: »

And Come Fly With Me.

The world's gone made.

And we have the BBC in particular putting anachronistic black actors into period roles. It's PC gone made.

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2020 11:36am

Stuff gets banned all the time of course it's just that it happens by omission - you'll be waiting a long time to see Curry and Chips or Love Thy Neighbour again.

CastorTroy · 10-06-2020 11:39am

jprender wrote: »

The pyramids need tearing down also.

There’s gonna be loads of work going.

Why? What did the aliens that built them do?

When will they start pulling movies and series with Oirish accents?

Sad Professor · 10-06-2020 11:42am

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

If we were seeing censorship on a state level then there would be grounds for concern. This isn't what is happening at all.

You can still buy your Gone with the Wind Blu Rays or Little Britain and Come Fly with Me DVDs if that's your preference...

Yes, it's not the state doing the censoring, it's the corporations/owners of the material, which is why many liberals are fine with it. However I am not so sure that a massive corporation self-censoring it's own content is less grounds for concern, especially if that corporation owns most of the content and many of the channels for distributing it.

Dades · 10-06-2020 11:43am

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Make it a Diet Coke. With ice and a straw.:)

WOW

So you support the objectification of men as per those Diet Coke ads?

You monster.

Ninthlife · 10-06-2020 11:51am

CastorTroy wrote: »

Why? What did the aliens that built them do?

When will they start pulling movies and series with Oirish accents?

They were illegal aliens

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 11:54am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yes, it's not the state doing the censoring, it's the corporations/owners of the material, which is why many liberals are fine with it. However I am not so sure that a massive corporation self-censoring it's own content is less grounds for concern, especially if that corporation owns most of the content and many of the channels for distributing it.

You can still buy it on DVD or BluRay, stream on Now TV or Sky Go or buy and rent it on Google Play, Apple TV, Microsoft or Rakuten TV. You're hardly starved of options for watching Gone with the Wind if you so desire...

johnny_ultimate · 10-06-2020 12:09pm

Yeah I can watch Gone With The Wind right now, legally, with zero hassle whatsoever. The film isn't being suppressed by Warner Bros.

As I said, I don't think there's any benefit to temporarily removing the film from a single streaming service even if I have no problem whatsoever with some contextual notes being added before/after the film (that's standard practice for many classic film re-releases). The worst thing about this particular case is that it's feeding incorrect and exaggerated narratives - you don't need to look beyond this thread to see how 'temporarily removed from streaming service' becomes 'banned'. A quick search of 'Gone With The Wind' on Twitter shows how various bad-faith actors have quickly seized on this to further the culture war in tedious, manipulative ways.

To be clear: I think all films should be readily available for the historical record, whether that's Triumph of the Will or Song of the South. I feel corporations 'hiding' any films from the public is a problem, even if I have no problem with them not releasing them in the traditional commercial sense (Song of the South as a YouTube or Archive.org stream/download would be perfectly acceptable, as opposed to in the midst of the Disney+ feed). That said, assuming Gone With The Wind returns to HBO Max fairly promptly, this particular case doesn't seem particularly grievous or ominous to me. Pulling it from one service while it's still readily available elsewhere is just silly, more than anything.

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 12:11pm

I hate to use the phrase but it really is just a classic case of virtue signalling on the part of HBO, especially if it's only a temporary measure.

CastorTroy · 10-06-2020 12:18pm

Have never seen the film. Was going to watch it one day but it was on right after I finished Ben-Hur for the first time so decided not to watch another epic.
But I do know it's to blame for the downfall of society by influencing people to say "damn"

joe40 · 10-06-2020 12:22pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Read the whole article!

"When the movie returns to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions,

but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history.”

Nothing is being removed. Something is being added.

See that's the problem, reading the whole article is time consuming.

It is much easier to read the headline and then extrapolate to ridiculous suggestions that have no relevance whatsoever.

Keeps the permanently outraged happy I suppose. Lets invent problems and then rail against them.

The Raging Bile Duct · 10-06-2020 12:38pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be clear: I think all films should be readily available for the historical record, whether that's Triumph of the Will or Song of the South. I feel corporations 'hiding' any films from the public is a problem, even if I have no problem with them not releasing them in the traditional commercial sense (Song of the South as a YouTube or Archive.org stream/download would be perfectly acceptable, as opposed to in the midst of the Disney+ feed). That said, assuming Gone With The Wind returns to HBO Max fairly promptly, this particular case doesn't seem particularly grievous or ominous to me. Pulling it from one service while it's still readily available elsewhere is just silly, more than anything.

We use to have a VHS of Song of the South back when I was a young lad. Use to love it purely for Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah. Can't remember anything else about it tbh. Any of the racist themes in it must have gone completely over my head because the film left absolutely no impression on me beyond the song.

I'm pretty sure you can pick up the Leni Riefenstahl films easily enough.

HBO temporarily pulls Gone with the Wind from streaming

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