Looking for affordable two bedroom house

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 10:24am #1

My wife and I are currently paying €2100 a month for a two bedroom apartment in Drumcondra. We have one of our children sleeping in the spare room, with the other sleeping on a sofa bed.

Our rent accounts for 42% of our household income, we would be looking to move on to somehere cheaper in the same area.

We cannot find anywhere in the area lower than what we are already paying, and due to family circumstances we have to be around the Drumcondra, Glasnevin, Santry, Artane area.

We are hoping to find a landlord who just wants to rent out their property at a level that will cover their mortgage plus a reasonable amount for the expenses incurred in letting out the property. If there is anyone out there we would be very interested to chat to you.

I'm not having a go at landlords here, I appreciate that every landlords background is different and there are many reasons why they charge the level of rent that they do. But at present our rent is killing us and we need to move. We live in a rent control area, our rent has increased 8% in the last two years but unfortunately we have not had a pay rise in that same period

charlietheminxx · 06-08-2019 10:49am

TBH you're not going to find something in that area that could be classed as "affordable". It's a high-demand area because of it's proximity to town (and DCU if we are talking Glasnevin and Santry). I was going to suggest seeing if you were eligible for any supports (like HAP) but with your income, it doesn't look like you would be. Could you move even slightly further out? It could mean a big difference in rent.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 10:56am

Hi Charlie

Yeah I appreciate your point and it will be impossible to find somewhere cheaper. Ouir daughter has aspergers and after years of her unable to settle in schools she has finally found a school near us which she loves. We are worried that if we move further away from the school we disrupt her routine and the progress she has made goes to pot.

I guess we will just have to suck up another 4% rent increase in February

charlietheminxx · 06-08-2019 11:01am

Would you consider Swords at all? I know it's not in the areas you listed but it's only 10 mins further out than Santry and you'd get better value there. I really sympathise with you as I understand the importance of routine etc. for children on the spectrum, but hopefully this wouldn't be too far out to stop her attending?

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 11:09am

It is something that we have looked at but the places we seen in Swords were being rented out at €1400 a month, and as far as I know are not in a rent control area so your subject to what ever increase the landlord deems fit at the end of the lease

€2100 v €1400 would obviously be cheaper but when you factor in travel costs its not that much of a saving.

Then we have the added hassle of doing two school runs through rush hour traffic and then both of us trying to get to town for a 9am start.

Thats before you factor in moving our daughter further up the road away from her school friends and the possible negative impact that will have.

i can see us moving out of Dublin in the next few years when the kids have finished school. It's just not worth our while anymore. We are not one of those couples who are mad to own their own house. We like the flexibility of renting, we just wish it was at a fair level

charlietheminxx · 06-08-2019 11:15am

lustig2014 wrote: »

It is something that we have looked at but the places we seen in Swords were being rented out at €1400 a month, and as far as I know are not in a rent control area so your subject to what ever increase the landlord deems fit at the end of the lease

€2100 v €1400 would obviously be cheaper but when you factor in travel costs its not that much of a saving.

Just on this, all of Dublin is covered by the RPZ rent controls. To me saving anything over €500 a month cheaper would make it worth a shot (can't see how travel costs would be much higher versus Santry) but I appreciate that it just doesn't suit your circumstances at the moment

I hope you find something better for you OP, it's brutal at there at the moment.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 11:17am

Thanks Charlie, appreciate your advice and I will look into it.

pc7 · 06-08-2019 11:20am

What about this? https://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/cedarwood-road-glasnevin-dublin-11/4327022

Only 10 mins from Drumcondra, its a nice area too.

L1011 · 06-08-2019 11:22am

Even outside of RPZs rent increases cannot exceed the market rate and must come with evidence of such. But Swords is RPZ anyway as stated

Creamy Goodness · 06-08-2019 11:23am

You won’t find anyone renting to just cover the mortgage. The main reason (outside of demand) that rents are high is the tax of rental income. To cover a mortgage you basically need to have the rent set at mortgage + 50% at the very least. There has to be something in it for the landlord as well cause as otherwise it’s just too risky all it takes is one bad tenant.

I empathise with your situation and am by no means siding with “the landlord” in this case but it’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 11:29am

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You won’t find anyone renting to just cover the mortgage. The main reason (outside of demand) that rents are high is the tax of rental income. To cover a mortgage you basically need to have the rent set at mortgage + 50% at the very least. There has to be something in it for the landlord as well cause as otherwise it’s just too risky all it takes is one bad tenant.

I empathise with your situation and am by no means siding with “the landlord” in this case but it’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.

Yeah I completely understand the position a lot of landlords find themselves in. Stuck on negative equity after buying at the height of the crash, hearing horror stories of tenants trashing houses, having to pay 52% effective rate on rental profits.

It's a situation in which there are very few winners, so as I said I am not having a go at landlords.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 11:30am

pc7 wrote: »

What about this? https://www.myhome.ie/rentals/brochure/cedarwood-road-glasnevin-dublin-11/4327022

Only 10 mins from Drumcondra, its a nice area too.

Will definitely have a look at this. I was only looking at daft and rent.ie and there wasn't much there

pc7 · 06-08-2019 11:38am

lustig2014 wrote: »

Will definitely have a look at this. I was only looking at daft and rent.ie and there wasn't much there

Calling to local estate agents might help too, have references, a letter saying you've 2 months deposit (if you can), little things like that might help you be first in their heads if something becomes available.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 11:40am

pc7 wrote: »

Calling to local estate agents might help too, have references, a letter saying you've 2 months deposit (if you can), little things like that might help you be first in their heads if something becomes available.

Definitely an idea and will look into it.

Old diesel · 06-08-2019 1:52pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You won’t find anyone renting to just cover the mortgage. The main reason (outside of demand) that rents are high is the tax of rental income. To cover a mortgage you basically need to have the rent set at mortgage + 50% at the very least. There has to be something in it for the landlord as well cause as otherwise it’s just too risky all it takes is one bad tenant.

I empathise with your situation and am by no means siding with “the landlord” in this case but it’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.

Simply asking the tenants to pay more and more with isn't that simple either.

What landlords forget is that there are limits to what people can pay.

Both sides need to understand the challenges the other has.

The reality is that 2100 a month for a 2 bed is A LOT.

Yes yes location location - but it's still a lot of money no matter if it's small landlord or a REIT.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 1:57pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Simply asking the tenants to pay more and more with isn't that simple either.

What landlords forget is that there are limits to what people can pay.

Both sides need to understand the challenges the other has.

The reality is that 2100 a month for a 2 bed is A LOT.

Yes yes location location - but it's still a lot of money no matter if it's small landlord or a REIT.

Agree 100%, my question would be, if the tenants are paying astronimical rents, and the landlords have to charge this rent to make it viable, who is it who is benefitting?

Prior to 2010 rents were affordable. No-one mentioned the rent they had to pay because it was just a basic overhead. So how were landlords getting by back then if we are to believe that they are still struggling now but taking in €2k a month?

Old diesel · 06-08-2019 2:23pm

lustig2014 wrote: »

Agree 100%, my question would be, if the tenants are paying astronimical rents, and the landlords have to charge this rent to make it viable, who is it who is benefitting?

Prior to 2010 rents were affordable. No-one mentioned the rent they had to pay because it was just a basic overhead. So how were landlords getting by back then if we are to believe that they are still struggling now but taking in €2k a month?

Govt via high landlord taxes - and banks who get paid mortgages including the interest on those mortgages based on Celtic tiger purchase prices.

I believe some of the tax issues came about due to some budget changes at some point.

Also pre 2010 houses bought pre Celtic tiger were still in system - those didn't need as much per month to cover costs.

Also in the whole general 2010 era everything collapsed so lots of homes about.

Part of reason landlords need more money now is they are trying to salvage losses from the crash.

Govt badly needs to give direction on what the future for BOTH tenants and landlords is going to be.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 2:38pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Govt via high landlord taxes - and banks who get paid mortgages including the interest on those mortgages based on Celtic tiger purchase prices.

I believe some of the tax issues came about due to some budget changes at some point.

Also pre 2010 houses bought pre Celtic tiger were still in system - those didn't need as much per month to cover costs.

Also in the whole general 2010 era everything collapsed so lots of homes about.

Part of reason landlords need more money now is they are trying to salvage losses from the crash.

Govt badly needs to give direction on what the future for BOTH tenants and landlords is going to be.

There is something wrong in the system where tenants are covering landlords losses. I have huge sympathy for those sitting in negative equity, but like any asset you have to be prepared for its price to increase and decrease over time. So we are saying to prospective landlords, buy this house, if it increases in value thats great, if it decreases then charge the maximum rent to cover your loss

I suppose thats what the government wants - tenants and landlords at each others throats so that it diverts attention from their abysmal housing policy

Xterminator · 06-08-2019 2:43pm

what some people here are forgetting is if a landlord charges below market rates to a good tenant he can almost never get back to market rate, even when that tenant moves out -because even at end of tenancy, if they are going by the books they are limited to what they can increase and will stay behind the curve as long as current market conditions continue.

any inducement to charge below market rates for good tenants has been removed by the way the market has been influenced by rent control.

Browney7 · 06-08-2019 2:47pm

Xterminator wrote: »

what some people here are forgetting is if a landlord charges below market rates to a good tenant he can almost never get back to market rate, even when that tenant moves out -because even at end of tenancy, if they are going by the books they are limited to what they can increase and will stay behind the curve as long as current market conditions continue.

any inducement to charge below market rates for good tenants has been removed by the way the market has been influenced by rent control.

I'd imagine the OP would be hoping to pick up one of these rent controlled properties out of sheer luck after existing tenants leave (buy their own place etc) but most landlords in this situation are probably selling up instead of re renting or else just flouting the rules

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 2:53pm

Xterminator wrote: »

what some people here are forgetting is if a landlord charges below market rates to a good tenant he can almost never get back to market rate, even when that tenant moves out -because even at end of tenancy, if they are going by the books they are limited to what they can increase and will stay behind the curve as long as current market conditions continue.

any inducement to charge below market rates for good tenants has been removed by the way the market has been influenced by rent control.

I dread to think how bad rents would be without rent control, I can't accept the argument that somehow rent control is causing the high rents.

Maybe Landlords shouldn't have profit as the sole motivation for renting out a property. I accept that it needs to be financially viable or else there is no point in doing it. But how good would it feel to know that a family is moving ahead with their lives, to know that your tenants are paying a fair rent and will eventually get their own house because you helped them on the way. Surely that feeling is worth more than an extra few hundred euros a month, 52% of which goes on tax?

Why do more landlords not have this mentality, instead of looking at every facet of this situation from a financial point of view?

baby and crumble · 06-08-2019 2:55pm

Have a look at Finglas, OP. We bought there a few years ago and it's barely past Glasnevin, and much, much cheaper. There's some dodgy spots, but they're mostly in West Finglas, but if you follow Glasnevin up through Ballygall and into Finglas East the prices go down dramatically and honestly it's been grand for us. Our address is Finglas East but literally 1 road over is Glasnevin.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 2:59pm

baby and crumble wrote: »

Have a look at Finglas, OP. We bought there a few years ago and it's barely past Glasnevin, and much, much cheaper. There's some dodgy spots, but they're mostly in West Finglas, but if you follow Glasnevin up through Ballygall and into Finglas East the prices go down dramatically and honestly it's been grand for us. Our address is Finglas East but literally 1 road over is Glasnevin.

We are looking there as well. My friend lives there and her mortgage is €1,000 a month for a four bedroom house. It sickens me that we are paying double in rent for half the bedrooms. Also that houses smaller than hers in the same area are going for over €2,000 a month

eoinob50 · 06-08-2019 3:00pm

lustig2014 wrote: »

I dread to think how bad rents would be without rent control, I can't accept the argument that somehow rent control is causing the high rents.

Maybe Landlords shouldn't have profit as the sole motivation for renting out a property. I accept that it needs to be financially viable or else there is no point in doing it. But how good would it feel to know that a family is moving ahead with their lives, to know that your tenants are paying a fair rent and will eventually get their own house because you helped them on the way. Surely that feeling is worth more than an extra few hundred euros a month, 52% of which goes on tax?

Why do more landlords not have this mentality, instead of looking at every facet of this situation from a financial point of view?

Because it is seen as a business/ stream of revenue, no more no less. No emotion involved.

Do agree that rents are ridiculous!!

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 3:06pm

eoinob50 wrote: »

Because it is seen as a business/ stream of revenue, no more no less. No emotion involved.

Do agree that rents are ridiculous!!

Why should that be the case though? Is there no desire whatsoever to give the next generation the same assistance most of our current landlords received.

Did our current landlords have to pay 42% of their income while they were renting? Of course they didn't, or else they wouldn't be homeowners.

The lack of emotion when dealing with housing will lead to an exodus of people from Dublin in the next 10-15 years

Xterminator · 06-08-2019 3:11pm

i dont think anyone is saying rent control is causing the high rents. but it is a dis-incentive to charge below market rates to good tenants.

i understand your point that there is a social aspect to housing, but you are asking a group individuals to voluntarily not charge as much as they could, for the social good, but these same landlords are demonised in the press, and on the end of a barrage of changes that have made their life worse, and who get no reward or recognition for charging a fair rent instead of every last penny they can. Yet when tenants misbehave the landlord is shafted. no mechanism to remove tenants quickly when not living up to their obligations.

It wouldn't make sense to charge below market rates, because they will be stuck there, even when the tenancy ends. you need to apply a carrot as well as a stick sometimes.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 3:17pm

Xterminator wrote: »

i dont think anyone is saying rent control is causing the high rents. but it is a dis-incentive to charge below market rates to good tenants.

i understand your point that there is a social aspect to housing, but you are asking a group individuals to voluntarily not charge as much as they could, for the social good, but these same landlords are demonised in the press, and on the end of a barrage of changes that have made their life worse, and who get no reward or recognition for charging a fair rent instead of every last penny they can. Yet when tenants misbehave the landlord is shafted. no mechanism to remove tenants quickly when not living up to their obligations.

It wouldn't make sense to charge below market rates, because they will be stuck there, even when the tenancy ends. you need to apply a carrot as well as a stick sometimes.

The incentive is you are responsible for improving a family's life. By offering them to chance to own a home, to know that you are responsible for that. You mention the bad media image of landlords, why would a landlord care about what the media image is, if they know they have done a good thing and helped a family?

eoinob50 · 06-08-2019 3:23pm

lustig2014 wrote: »

Why should that be the case though? Is there no desire whatsoever to give the next generation the same assistance most of our current landlords received.

Did our current landlords have to pay 42% of their income while they were renting? Of course they didn't, or else they wouldn't be homeowners.

The lack of emotion when dealing with housing will lead to an exodus of people from Dublin in the next 10-15 years

To be frank... no desire.

Its a business to them, if emotion comes into play they might as well forget it.

Your dreaming of an idealistic world which does not exist.

charlietheminxx · 06-08-2019 3:25pm

lustig2014 wrote: »

The incentive is you are responsible for improving a family's life. By offering them to chance to own a home, to know that you are responsible for that. You mention the bad media image of landlords, why would a landlord care about what the media image is, if they know they have done a good thing and helped a family?

I'm not being funny but you know most landlords have families too? Like I get your frustration, I'm a renter myself (though not for too much longer) but you can't expect landlords to be using their assets to do people a favour or to be nice. I agree the system sucks, and again I know you're in a really awkward position, but this is one of those times when you remember that an affordable home in one of the most expensive areas of the country isn't owed to you or me or anyone else, least of all on the kindness of strangers.

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 3:28pm

eoinob50 wrote: »

To be frank... no desire.

Its a business to them, if emotion comes into play they might as well forget it.

Your dreaming of an idealistic world which does not exist.

I'm not exactly taking about a golden utopia here. I'm asking for landlords to uphold their moral obligation to provide housing at a fair rate.

We are not taking about a PS4 or an iphone here, where companies can charge what they want because people have a choice as to whether they want to buy it.

We are talking about a roof over someones head, a basic human right, and the more we continue on our current path the more people will be forced onto the streets

lustig2014 · 06-08-2019 3:33pm

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I'm not being funny but you know most landlords have families too? Like I get your frustration, I'm a renter myself (though not for too much longer) but you can't expect landlords to be using their assets to do people a favour or to be nice. I agree the system sucks, and again I know you're in a really awkward position, but this is one of those times when you remember that an affordable home in one of the most expensive areas of the country isn't owed to you or me or anyone else, least of all on the kindness of strangers.

In the midst of the worst housing crisis in the state, with 10,000 people homeless? Yes, it would be nice we could rely on the kindness of strangers once in a while.

I do not want to own a home in Dublin. I want to pay a fair level of rent. in an area where my family is settled. I do not think that is too much to ask

Looking for affordable two bedroom house

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