Looking for affordable two bedroom house

Fol20

lustig2014 wrote: »

There is something wrong in the system where tenants are covering landlords losses. I have huge sympathy for those sitting in negative equity, but like any asset you have to be prepared for its price to increase and decrease over time. So we are saying to prospective landlords, buy this house, if it increases in value thats great, if it decreases then charge the maximum rent to cover your loss

I suppose thats what the government wants - tenants and landlords at each others throats so that it diverts attention from their abysmal housing policy

That’s not how it works. Ll are trying to make a profit and sometimes you take a hit while at other times you make a profit. Ll charge market rate at all times of the cycle be it in good times and bad times.


What is wrong right now is that normally if you have a market where there are super normal profits. You would see a natural increase in ll as more enter the market to get their hands on these profits. Instead due to governmental influence we are seeing the opposite effect where ll are decreasing due to pro tenant legislation, changes in taxation, more risk, and lastly high asset value where better gains can potentially made elsewhere without the heartache and hassle that goes with being a ll.

charlietheminxx

lustig2014 wrote: »

In the midst of the worst housing crisis in the state, with 10,000 people homeless? Yes, it would be nice we could rely on the kindness of strangers once in a while.

I do not want to own a home in Dublin. I want to pay a fair level of rent. in an area where my family is settled. I do not think that is too much to ask

Unfortunately whether you think its not to much to ask or not isn't relevant at the moment because it's just not very realistic.

The way it is absolutely sucks, we need massive reforms and I 100% think you're right that the world would be better if people were kinder, but we have to make plans based on the present realities.

lustig2014

I originally started this thread to see if there was anyone who had a property they could rent to my family at a fair rent.

I have no wish to turn this thread into a full on discussion on the problems in the housing system. Could I ask that you refrain from adding any further comments unless they are related directly to the opening post.

Fol20

lustig2014 wrote: »

The incentive is you are responsible for improving a family's life. By offering them to chance to own a home, to know that you are responsible for that. You mention the bad media image of landlords, why would a landlord care about what the media image is, if they know they have done a good thing and helped a family?

If you seriously think a ll should do the above you would delusional. This is what charity organizations are for. If you are a ll and follow these principles, you are doomed to fail as others have pointed out, tenants are quick to rip into ll when they can do ll must do the same. It’s a dog eat dog world in BUSINESS and should be treated as such “ a business”

charlietheminxx

It's also worth noting that even outside Ireland's broken rental model, there are few places in the western world where you could earn an average wage and afford to rent 10-15 minutes from the city centre, while supporting 2 children.

lustig2014

charlietheminxx wrote: »

It's also worth noting that even outside Ireland's broken rental model, there are few places in the western world where you could earn an average wage and afford to rent 10-15 minutes from the city centre, while supporting 2 children.

ok thanks I appreciate your comments

Fol20

lustig2014 wrote: »

I dread to think how bad rents would be without rent control, I can't accept the argument that somehow rent control is causing the high rents.

Maybe Landlords shouldn't have profit as the sole motivation for renting out a property. I accept that it needs to be financially viable or else there is no point in doing it. But how good would it feel to know that a family is moving ahead with their lives, to know that your tenants are paying a fair rent and will eventually get their own house because you helped them on the way. Surely that feeling is worth more than an extra few hundred euros a month, 52% of which goes on tax?

Why do more landlords not have this mentality, instead of looking at every facet of this situation from a financial point of view?

Its cold hard numbers. Why become a ll if you dont make money, You might see other friends enjoy life with a new car,holidays and nights out when you instead decided to put your saving into a house so you have money left away for your pension. 99pc of people would treat it this way, more often than not the people wanting others to treat this like a charity would not do the same if the tables were reversed.

Look into basic economics to understand supply and demand. Rents are continuing to increase.. Why? you guessed it, demand outstrips supply...

How do we cause rents to decrease? Increase supply.... What did we do, we followed failed approaches where the eu recommended against it with no successful model to stifle the market through RPZ. What did this cause..? It certainly didnt cause the supply to increase and in fact caused the industry to shrink as there is no motive to invest in this unless your an REIT which has favorable taxation as without the taxation, its nowhere near as lucrative.

Samuel T. Cogley

lustig2014 wrote: »

I'm not exactly taking about a golden utopia here. I'm asking for landlords to uphold their moral obligation to provide housing at a fair rate.

Sorry I just couldn't let this one slide. It is absolutely not the moral obligation of private LL's to provide housing at a fair rate. That's the state's job and why we pay tax, most of us at the higher rate.

lustig2014

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Sorry I just couldn't let this one slide. It is absolutely not the moral obligation of private LL's to provide housing at a fair rate. That's the state's job and why we pay tax, most of us at the higher rate.

Thanks for your input

Samuel T. Cogley

Once a discussion get's going it's very difficult to stop it - maybe a moderator couls split out the discussion that's got started?

lustig2014

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Once a discussion get's going it's very difficult to stop it - maybe a moderator couls split out the discussion that's got started?

I'll leave you guys to it, enjoy the discussion

Fol20

lustig2014 wrote: »

I'm not exactly taking about a golden utopia here. I'm asking for landlords to uphold their moral obligation to provide housing at a fair rate.

We are not taking about a PS4 or an iphone here, where companies can charge what they want because people have a choice as to whether they want to buy it.

We are talking about a roof over someones head, a basic human right, and the more we continue on our current path the more people will be forced onto the streets

That is a golden utopia, your moral compass is different to others and you cant force your views on others as they dont on you. LL dont have a moral obligation and you should stop bringing morality to a simple business decision. Right now there are 120 jobs on the line in northern Ireland wolf and house shipping. If morality was ever involved in this, some companies would offer help and buy out the company sp these people can still have a job to provide for roof and shelter but you dont see anyone bring up morality in this. Why? because its business.

sportsfan90

lustig2014 wrote: »

The incentive is you are responsible for improving a family's life. By offering them to chance to own a home, to know that you are responsible for that.

Tbf that's akin to saying why don't teachers give up their weekends and spend their time unpaid teaching the less well off kids - wouldn't that too be the common good, improve kids lives and futures? While technically the answer is yes it would, it's not realistic and not their responsibility to go that far - they too have their own families to pay for.

Landlords have to take the good with the bad. You only have to go through this forum to read some of the horror stories about keeping the rent reasonable, then being stung by non-paying renters, have huge refurb bills and their hands are then tied in what they can charge when trying to bring it closer to market value for the next tennant.

And I'm saying this as a renter myself. I agree with you that there's something wrong with the system when huge rents are being paid but the landlord can still be making a loss. I do hope you get sorted soon, it's not easy out there.

Fol20

lustig2014 wrote: »

In the midst of the worst housing crisis in the state, with 10,000 people homeless? Yes, it would be nice we could rely on the kindness of strangers once in a while.

I do not want to own a home in Dublin. I want to pay a fair level of rent. in an area where my family is settled. I do not think that is too much to ask

Fair rent is subjective, and as others have pointed out, snowflakes(people that think everyone deserves a medal even for coming last) need to grow up in the big bad world and realize that many out there wont provide for you. If you have several people that want to live in an area, how do you decide who lives there and who doesnt. Its simply dictated by whoever has a bigger wallet which in my opinion is "fair"

lustig2014

As previously mentioned, could you refrain from giving further opinions on the housing situation as I want to keep this thread clear. I have appreciated the comments so far which have been very informative.

If you want to continue the discussion, please set up your own housing thread

LirW

Is looking in D17 an option? There are a good few spots that are quiet, granted it's not a fancy area but you'd be close enough. Or anywhere somewhat close to the dart line so you can use the dart to reach Drumcondra.
Alternatively look along the train line that comes from the North.
Realistically if you want to stay in the area you either will have to keep paying your crazy rent or move where it's cheaper and move your daughter's school again (I appreciate that she has Asperger's but if you get the right support in board a transfer can be made, I understand if you don't like the thought of it).

ste

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You won’t find anyone renting to just cover the mortgage. The main reason (outside of demand) that rents are high is the tax of rental income. To cover a mortgage you basically need to have the rent set at mortgage + 50% at the very least. There has to be something in it for the landlord as well cause as otherwise it’s just too risky all it takes is one bad tenant.

I empathise with your situation and am by no means siding with “the landlord” in this case but it’s just not as simple as you make it out to be.

This is BS. Mortgage + 50% to cover mortgage ... What country do you think this is expectation? Nonsense.

Prices are sky high simply due to supply/demand & capitalist greed. Rent is running at about twice mortgage cost (on 90% LTV, avg mortgage rate) where I'm living. 4 years ago it was maybe 50% higher. I feel very bad for any new renters today.

ashes2014

Im sorry about the situation you are in OP.

Both of you are working, with your kids in a school thats they like and you are paying alot of money for an apartment which is not really suitable for your families needs.

No matter what way you look at it, thats an awful lot of rent you have to pay.

I dont have any solutions (I dont know Dublin that well to suggest alternatives) but you have my sympathy for being stuck in a situation that you really dont have much choice or control over.

DubCount

OP. €2,000+ per month for a 2 bed in Drumcondra is nuts, but there is a long line of prospective tenants prepared to pay it. If there are a lot of comments on this thread about general rental policy, thats because the current set-up is not working for tenants or landlords, and there is lots of frustration. The situation is not going to change as government policy is heading in a particular direction that is not going to change. Most kind-hearted landlords charging below market rent got screwed by RPZ and most have left the market - finding one any more (especially one that doesnt have a sitting tenant) is like trying to win the lotto. Honestly, I think you need to either widen your search area (maybe Dublin 17), or reconsider the entire lifestyle arrangement that requires you to live in such an expensive location. Good Luck

Creamy Goodness

ste wrote: »

This is BS. Mortgage + 50% to cover mortgage ... What country do you think this is expectation? Nonsense.

Prices are sky high simply due to supply/demand & capitalist greed. Rent is running at about twice mortgage cost (on 90% LTV, avg mortgage rate) where I'm living. 4 years ago it was maybe 50% higher. I feel very bad for any new renters today.

I made a mistake in that post in my percentages (sorry Im on pretty strong pain meds).

What I meant was for a landlord that has a mortgage (e.g. €1000 per month) on a rental property then need to charge €2000 to cover the cost of tax. Even then they’re not breaking even. Whilst supply/demand is the main driver factor it’s not the only one.

El Tarangu

Somewhere on the Maynooth train line - presumably you will get a lot more bang for your buck a bit further out, and if you are the train line, you will get to Drumcondra quite quickly.

As others have said OP, it's a landlords' market, and Drumcondra is a very desirable area - I do feel for you.

Mrs OBumble

OP, as well as the formal house searching tools, you need to work local networks and push emotional buttons to possibly get a house that maybe wasn't going to be rented out. Ask everyone you know if anyone has a house that needs a tenant or even a house-sitter. Ask the parish priest (not religious ? doesn't matter, ask him anyways!). Ask VdP. Ask the local charity shops, family resource centre, disability support service, etc etc.Ask the barman in local pubs. The local scout leader. GAA coach. Etc. Etc. Etc. In every one of these stress the special-needs child and how we'll s/he's doing in the local school and so really really cannot move.

lustig2014 wrote: »

We are looking there as well. My friend lives there and her mortgage is €1,000 a month for a four bedroom house. It sickens me that we are paying double in rent for half the bedrooms. Also that houses smaller than hers in the same area are going for over €2,000 a month

Don't directly compare mortgages and rent. Someone paying a mortgage also has to pay insurance, maintenance, management-company fees. These can add up substantially. And besides even if they difference is sickening, thinking too hard about it isn't going to solve your problem. Don't waste your mental energy focussing on it.

alias no.9

lustig2014 wrote: »

I dread to think how bad rents would be without rent control, I can't accept the argument that somehow rent control is causing the high rents.

Imagine if you were a landlord and had a tenant or set of tenants whom you found to be reliable both in terms of looking after the property and paying rent on time, and because you valued these characteristics, you had as a measure of goodwill, chosen not to raise their rent.

Now for whatever reason, thr tenants gave notice and decided to move on, now the government determines that the good will earned by those tenants must carry through to a future unknown tenant, do you think that in a landlords market that your first port of call will be to advertise it openly at the rent controlled price? How do you think that would work out for the first 1, 5 or even 10 minutes after placing the add? No need to go beyond 10 minutes because there's no hope the add will still be live.

The reality is that in the circumstances I've outlined the first thing you'll do is look for word of mouth recommendations of prospective tenants with the kind of characteristics that earned the previous tenants goodwill.

Even after that, because its s new tenant, by setting a rent, you're punished in perpituity if you don't apply the maximum allowable rent, even out of consideration to the circumstances of a particular set of tenants. Before anyone makes a comment about the time limit on RPZ, lets wait and see how they try and unwind the mess. Income tax was once a temporary measure to fund the crimean war.

Getting back on track, when you have two identical properties side by side, one of which is enabled by legislation to charge a signicantly higher rent, only one of them will ever be available on the open market.

This has a perverse effect of making the market rent appear higher than it would be if every property was openly advertised.

The status quo rewards the pisstakers on both sides. The landlords leading the charge on higher rents were locked in at a higher baseline. The landlords that skirt around or down right ignore the RPZ rules will get away with it unless the new tenant gets a tip off on the previous rent because its a big risk to take to challenge the rent on a new rental without strong evidence. On the other side, tenants can get up to two years rent free as well as forcing additional legal costs on a landlord whos simply seeking vacant possession where the tenant has decided they cant be arsed paying rent anymore.