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30-07-2018, 16:33   #1
KC8
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Papal Vist - lost opportunity for public transport to shine

600,000 people to and from the Phoenix Park in one day. Big challenge.

The challenge is also an opportunity. If users are impressed with public transport on the day, who knows they might leave the car behind on other journeys.

Unfortunately, having reviewed plans, I am completely underwhelmed. I suspect the shortcomings are not necessarily down to the transport operators but perhaps the Guards or whomever else isn’t willing to close down roads to general traffic.

Assuming it’s not logisticaly possible to have vehicles driving into the Park, the objective should be to drop off and pick up as close as possible.

Buses
The drop off points could be much closer to the Park. If you closed the Chapilizod bypass and N3 completely, you could drop off passengers close to Islandbridge and the Ashtown roundabout respectively with easy turning facilities for buses. Why isn’t this being done? Also with these wide roads closed, one could arrange for hundreds of buses to be ready to leave once the event is over.

LUAS
Why aren’t red line services serving Houston and Museum? Crown control doesn’t make sense to me. Both stops have a good deal of space that would permit safe queueing at departure time.

TRAINS
There appears still to be a lack of detail here. There don’t appear to be much by way of extra services. Will all rolling stock be used on the day? If not, why not?
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31-07-2018, 20:10   #2
AlekSmart
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Originally Posted by KC8 View Post
600,000 people to and from the Phoenix Park in one day. Big challenge.

The challenge is also an opportunity. If users are impressed with public transport on the day, who knows they might leave the car behind on other journeys.

Unfortunately, having reviewed plans, I am completely underwhelmed. I suspect the shortcomings are not necessarily down to the transport operators but perhaps the Guards or whomever else isn’t willing to close down roads to general traffic.

Assuming it’s not logisticaly possible to have vehicles driving into the Park, the objective should be to drop off and pick up as close as possible.

Buses
The drop off points could be much closer to the Park. If you closed the Chapilizod bypass and N3 completely, you could drop off passengers close to Islandbridge and the Ashtown roundabout respectively with easy turning facilities for buses. Why isn’t this being done? Also with these wide roads closed, one could arrange for hundreds of buses to be ready to leave once the event is over.

LUAS
Why aren’t red line services serving Houston and Museum? Crown control doesn’t make sense to me. Both stops have a good deal of space that would permit safe queueing at departure time.

TRAINS
There appears still to be a lack of detail here. There don’t appear to be much by way of extra services. Will all rolling stock be used on the day? If not, why not?
Personally,I remain sceptical that the pope will draw that 600,000,but even allowing for that scepticism,the Garda Security requirements appear Waaay OTT.

If one compares the numbers of those catered for in 1979,and the extremely effective Public Transport arrangements back then,one could be forgiven for asking whether they bothered to keep the 1979 plan on file ?
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31-07-2018, 20:50   #3
Jamie2k9
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TRAINS
There appears still to be a lack of detail here. There don’t appear to be much by way of extra services. Will all rolling stock be used on the day? If not, why not?
Not looked at Irishrail.ie then, most routes getting at least one additional return service while NIR will run a service from Derry and two from Belfast.
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31-07-2018, 21:11   #4
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Originally Posted by KC8 View Post
600,000 people to and from the Phoenix Park in one day. Big challenge.

The challenge is also an opportunity. If users are impressed with public transport on the day, who knows they might leave the car behind on other journeys.

Unfortunately, having reviewed plans, I am completely underwhelmed. I suspect the shortcomings are not necessarily down to the transport operators but perhaps the Guards or whomever else isn’t willing to close down roads to general traffic.

Assuming it’s not logisticaly possible to have vehicles driving into the Park, the objective should be to drop off and pick up as close as possible.

Buses
The drop off points could be much closer to the Park. If you closed the Chapilizod bypass and N3 completely, you could drop off passengers close to Islandbridge and the Ashtown roundabout respectively with easy turning facilities for buses. Why isn’t this being done? Also with these wide roads closed, one could arrange for hundreds of buses to be ready to leave once the event is over.

LUAS
Why aren’t red line services serving Houston and Museum? Crown control doesn’t make sense to me. Both stops have a good deal of space that would permit safe queueing at departure time.

TRAINS
There appears still to be a lack of detail here. There don’t appear to be much by way of extra services. Will all rolling stock be used on the day? If not, why not?
It's a normal working day for a lot of people who have zero interest in this. It's bad enough the city being shut down as it is without adding this
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31-07-2018, 23:35   #5
magicbastarder
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If users are impressed with public transport on the day
the idea that the public transport for a city of 1-1.5m (all depends on how you choose to calculate that) could cope with 600,000 people going to the same event at the same time at the same venue, and impress people enough to make them think 'wow, PT is something i will now consider as a valid option' is a colossal ask.

and as mentioned above, it should also continue to serve the rest of the city at the same time.
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01-08-2018, 01:22   #6
Carawaystick
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Buses
The drop off points could be much closer to the Park. If you closed the Chapilizod bypass and N3 completely, you could drop off passengers close to Islandbridge and the Ashtown roundabout respectively with easy turning facilities for buses. Why isn’t this being done? Also with these wide roads closed, one could arrange for hundreds of buses to be ready to leave once the event is over.
Why would you close the N4, when Conyngham road is available to close and let coaches park.
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01-08-2018, 08:08   #7
magicbastarder
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it's been announced that they're delaying release of tickets for the final mass as they seem to be worried about carmageddon, that most people will expect to drive to it and the city will grind to a halt. there's a surprise.
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01-08-2018, 08:31   #8
Borderfox
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it's been announced that they're delaying release of tickets for the final mass as they seem to be worried about carmageddon, that most people will expect to drive to it and the city will grind to a halt. there's a surprise.
Can they not just have a drive in mass?
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01-08-2018, 10:06   #9
goingnowhere
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Standard practice is to have transport drop people off a fair distance from the event. It avoids crush situations as it spreads the crowd out

Its important to note the number of daily rail passengers today far exceeds that carried on the date of the last Papal Mass at the Phoenix Park (125k), the DART with a fleet of 80 coaches carried 125k on a single day in 1996, with the current fleet of 144 200k would be not be a problem add a further 100k from the Intercity/Commuter operation. Luas can easily manage 100k plus in a day

Add in Dublin Bus, Go Ahead, Translink and whoever else the NTA can hire in it would be practical to assume PT could cope with 50% of the demand, a huge number will walk.
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01-08-2018, 10:12   #10
TheIrishGrover
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Personally,I remain sceptical that the pope will draw that 600,000,but even allowing for that scepticism,the Garda Security requirements appear Waaay OTT.

If one compares the numbers of those catered for in 1979,and the extremely effective Public Transport arrangements back then,one could be forgiven for asking whether they bothered to keep the 1979 plan on file ?
Gottta remember the amount of people going to the event this year who have their own cars as opposed to 1979.

Are they letting people in/out of the park from many gates? My sister and family are going. I live out near Blanchardstown/Clonsilla. They could get the 39A (Or train to Clonsilla from Ashtown) if they can leave via the Ashtown gate.

Did I hear on RTE that they were placing restrictions basically out to the M50?

Plus, unfortunately, so many people just will NOT use public transport if they can help it at all. I use the train Mon-Fri and use busses regularly and, bar rush-hour extreme delays and scrotes on busses (Another conversation that's been done to death), I have no real complaints.

But I know people who would sit in their car for hours, stopping and starting, trying to find a parking spot 10 feet closer rather than get a bus. It's sad but true.

This is also going to be a big generalisation but the vast majority of the people going will be from outside of Dublin and many (Majority) will be middle-aged/older. These people would also be resistant to getting off at Red Cow, Getting LUAS and then, maybe, bus - Tickets, people, confusion etc.

Last edited by TheIrishGrover; 01-08-2018 at 10:19.
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01-08-2018, 10:30   #11
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Notice on Irish Rail that tickets for intercity services are mandatory and must be purchased in advance. I can see some people getting caught out by this.
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01-08-2018, 10:33   #12
magicbastarder
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Plus, unfortunately, so many people just will NOT use public transport if they can help it at all.
if i heard correctly on RTE, there was a clear implication that they already know the intentions on how people intend on getting to the event - was that part of the ticket application process?
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01-08-2018, 10:42   #13
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Did I hear on RTE that they were placing restrictions basically out to the M50?
Basically the dark greyed area on these maps are restricted, but I can't actually find out what these restrictions are.

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our...maps-final.pdf
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01-08-2018, 10:58   #14
Stephen15
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Why would you close the N4, when Conyngham road is available to close and let coaches park.
Do you suggest letting coaches park in Conyngham Road Depot? It's DB private property.
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01-08-2018, 11:01   #15
cgcsb
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The pope could have just relocated his visit to Belfast-Derry and Mayo and that would've virtually removed the transport issues. Bring the mountain to muhammod as it were. Dubliners don't want to go see the pope like in all fairness. That's something for Northerners and grannies from Mayo.
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