Phonewatch contract

SteM · 08-09-2017 3:43pm #1

Was looking through the Phonewatch renewal contract recently. The letter says if we don't contact them within 30 days they'll debit my account and that will automatically tie us to another 12 month contract.

I don't know of any other service provider that does that. Seems shady to say the least. Anyone else come across this before or had an issue with it?

KoolKid · 08-09-2017 4:19pm

It's called inertia selling and it's illegal in Ireland .

SteM · 08-09-2017 4:37pm

I've never heard of that term before. That's interesting thanks. I was wondering why I never noticed other service providers do it.

KoolKid · 08-09-2017 7:43pm

It was on Joe Duffy a while back and he called them out on it.
They also bypass parts of the EN50131 standards by putting it in their T & C s.

amadablam · 11-09-2017 1:32pm

Anyone know what to do about this?

Ive been told that my contract was auto renewed even though in three years, i have never received a bill

KoolKid wrote: »

It's called inertia selling and it's illegal in Ireland .

They (Phonewatch)are saying its perfectly legal

KoolKid · 11-09-2017 1:35pm

Argue them on it. It's called inertia selling and it's illegal in Ireland.

amadablam · 11-09-2017 1:39pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Argue them on it. It's called inertia selling and it's illegal in Ireland.

Jsut off the phoen and expecting a call back.

apparently they wrote to me and I have never received it

They are saying that they have the right to renew if I didnt cancel and i am locked into contract again???

ED E · 11-09-2017 1:42pm

Wait for the callback then proceed to have your bank block them.

Sector (Phonewatch) are just a lovely company, just like Nigerian Prince Inheritance Co.

KoolKid · 11-09-2017 1:43pm

No
It's inertia selling. It's illegal in Ireland. If that clause is in your contract it's illegal.
Google it and you will get plenty of details to quote at them.

amadablam · 11-09-2017 1:44pm

ED E wrote: »

Wait for the callback then proceed to have your bank block them.

Sector (Phonewatch) are just a lovely company, just like Nigerian Prince Inheritance Co.

She told me that if I obstruct them receiving payment they will expect full payment until May of next year at which time I have the option to cancel the contract that I never renewed

Will it affect my credit rating if I block the debit?

SteM · 11-09-2017 2:23pm

I'm just off the phone with them. Argued every which way, the guy in retentions just kept telling me that if it was illegal then Phonewatch wouldn't do it. I'm not going to get a call back off them but was told if I cancelled my DD it would be up to the company as to whether I will be pursued for the full amount of my contract.

A really frustrating, bizarre 25 minute conversation I have to say. He refused to look at this page

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/act/24/section/138/enacted/en/html

but was happy to quote me stuff from the citizensinformation.ie website that had nothing to do with my complaint.

kub · 11-09-2017 2:55pm

So in their eyes they are perfectly entitled to take your money for a service you have not received yet.

I wonder what a judge in a court room would make of that.

amadablam · 11-09-2017 3:40pm

well after a very long email and a phone call, I have now been referred to get a follow up email response to my request for a response in writing.

In 3 years as a customer, I have never received a bill. I have lots of seasonal emails and marketing and they acknowledge they have never emailed me a bill nor notification.

They also admitted that they sent me emails in April, June and July (all marketing nonsense I never requested) and the only email they didn't send was my renewal as there was a problem with the system.

On 21-12-2016 I received an email to tell me that I would be receiving my renewal and all subsequent bills by email, which never happened.

apparently, they feel that I am bound to honor a notification to renew that I never received.

I have asked for a response to this in writing. and to reference the fact that by their own admission they have not been sending emails to this effect despite notifying customers that they would receive this in email as part of their paperless billing.

The call ended from their side to tell me that I am legally bound and liable for the contract in full and ended from my side by saying that I cannot be bound by something that I have not received and that by your own admission, was notified that I would receive it in email

They are a disaster to deal with but I have been guaranteed a written response and I have made it quite clear that as of now the only thing I will accept is that I am only getting notification to renew after this call via the method I requested.

This is definitely going to go all the way with them I would imagine and Im quite happy to take it as far as needed.

Ill update you if I get anywhere and best of luck with them yourself.

KoolKid · 11-09-2017 8:57pm

SteM wrote: »

I'm just off the phone with them. Argued every which way, the guy in retentions just kept telling me that if it was illegal then Phonewatch wouldn't do it. I'm not going to get a call back off them but was told if I cancelled my DD it would be up to the company as to whether I will be pursued for the full amount of my contract.

A really frustrating, bizarre 25 minute conversation I have to say. He refused to look at this page

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/act/24/section/138/enacted/en/html

.

That seems very clear cut to me.
They wont go all the way with it. If they lost that in court it sets a precedent I'd imagine.

mugsymugsy · 11-09-2017 9:12pm

It would be great if it did go to court.

I would only conduct any correspondence in writing going forward with them.

SteM · 11-09-2017 9:42pm

mugsymugsy wrote: »

I would only conduct any correspondence in writing going forward with them.

Yeah, he told me on the phone that he would cancel the contract but the company could come after me for a few he balance of my contract. I told him not to that I would email them with the cancelation instruction and cancel me dd after 30 days. Would prefer the whole thing to be done by email at this stage.

KoolKid · 11-09-2017 11:09pm

Is he putting in writing their inertia selling claus?:rolleyes:

amadablam · 12-09-2017 8:52pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Is he putting in writing their inertia selling claus?:rolleyes:

I hope the OP doesn't mind me adding to this thread. If he does, please just branch out to a new thread but I didn't want to start a new one when we are having the same issue in many respects.

I had two more calls from them today, one which denies the inertia selling and gave the example of a magazine being left on your doorstep and if it's not collected...... Etc.

My response was to ask that how was sending an email that they had no record of and taking my lack of response as acceptance to renew, purely because I continued to make payment, was any difference? No response

I also asked him why they were so hung up on the inertia selling comment and that he was missing the issue I had.

Possibly they are sensitive souls about this term

They can't find an email from themselves to me about their renewal as I never received it. They can see all other emails but that one, the one they advised about on the 22-12-16 on paperless billing..... No sign of that on their side

Got offered a reduced contract for the next year instead. He said he would write to me and offer a new contract in lieu of the email I never received and apologised and said it would be from today forward and in replacement of the email I never received.

He also said I signed for a 12 month contract three years ago and it automatically renews if, within 30 days of the email I never received, I don't cancel payment but if they take payment, it is acceptance of the new contract on my part as set out in the email that I never received.

I refused and continued to ask for the email they sent me and questioning the legality of their actions.

He wrote to me offering the reduced and renewed contract and apologies for the communication issues.

My reply was short and courteous but asked for the proposed date of the offer and to acknowledge it was in lieu of the email I never received and also that I had my entitlement of a 14-30 day cooling off period.

He replied that it was being sent to a supervisor and then rang me to try and argue everything all over again while admitting everything as well. They still can't find a record of sending me the email and apparently, what his colleague said yesterday, was denied now.

I asked for everything in writing.

Also requested a copy of the data they hold on me under the data protection act as I want to see what they will give me back. It will be worth the 6.35 max fee they can charge to see what I get back.

I gave a chronological list of the email I have received from them and they acknowledge them all but can't find the one where they inform me of my renewal.

Anyway, I hope the OP is having more success. I am handing it over to my solicitor altogether and I am going to write my story into a few radio stations and get their advice on it.

Ive told pw that I was going to go and get this sorted and that they haven't a leg to stand on.

I also asked him why they are so aggressively, trying to hold onto me as a customer against my wishes after my contract had expired.

He said they weren't aggressive.......

Juwwi · 12-09-2017 9:05pm

The stories here are identical to the complaints on the Joe Duffy show a while back , very poor practice from Phone Watch .

kub · 12-09-2017 9:08pm

robbie1977 wrote:

The stories here are identical to the complaints on the Joe Duffy show a while back , very poor practice from Phone Watch .

Yet they still have not learnt.

bigpoppa · 12-09-2017 9:10pm

I cancelled recently and got a final bill on a wed which I paid. On the Friday I got a letter saying balance overdue and that it was being passed to a collection agency. I mailed them and got an apology but they are shabby af

KoolKid · 12-09-2017 11:01pm

@ amadablam
Thanks for detailing your experience. I'm sure all here would be very interested in any updates to this down the line.

amadablam · 13-09-2017 10:26am

KoolKid wrote: »

@ amadablam
Thanks for detailing your experience. I'm sure all here would be very interested in any updates to this down the line.

Well

I received a final call. The email that I have never received has turned up on their system but I cant have it until later

At the end of the conversation I was informed that he didnt like my tone and would like to remind me that all calls were recorded and I said that at no point in the conversation did he inform me that my call was recorded - He called me and launched into a chat.

He said that 'I should know that all call are recorded when being called by a call centre representative'

I have been told that I will be liable for breach of contract and that they will send a debt collection agency after me.

When I said that under my data protection request, I would be making sure that I received all transcripts, he didnt comment. I also pointed out that in the event of calls being recorded that it for their purpose of trianing and quality control, neither of which this issue refers to.

Said he has more than tried to facilitate me and that I am locked into the remained of the contract that I never knew I was in and that I accepted this by making payment.

He also compounded the fact that the did not inertia sell, a term that he said was used in a biased interview on Joe Duffy with no one from their side.

Unfortunately for me, I am now going to have to deal with this as he has told me that they will get their payment for the remaining contract from me and he is quite sure of this.

So folks, just realize, that even though I have never received the notification and I genuinely didnt, they feel that I have and will stick to it because I accepted their terms and conditions by making payment.

Despite being me being able to demonstrate that I havent received it in email, they now say it has been sent but it will take a day to get it to me. I have requested, in writing that it be sent with full internet headers attached

He is quite confident that should i go to court with this, which I will, that they will win their side.

I have reiterated that as far as I am concerned, since its my first time receiving it, I will take it that my 30 days to cancel beginning upon receipt

He told me that this wont happen as its from when it was originally sent to me, despite never having received it.

At this point I asked to terminate the conversation at my request and send me the bill that was sent by email. It was also at this point that I was informed that my call was being recorded, which I hadnt been made aware of until that point.

I have just received an email to say that I am committed to 12 months by making my payment but no copy of the email that was sent.

If anyone could PM me with advice, I would appreciate it.

SteM · 13-09-2017 10:36am

I think the advice on this thread has been consistent. Cancel your account, cancel your Direct Debt. They'll contact you asking for payment in full and threathen with a collection agency. You should ignore them.

I was speaking to a company called Home Secure about moving to them and they have told me that they have sought legal advice on this and are 100% sure that unless you have signed a contract or told them over the phone that you agree to another year you are not tied to them as they claim. They have a prepared legal letter they send to Phonewatch on your behalf if you're their customer and you'll never hear from Phonewatch again.

KoolKid · 13-09-2017 11:22am

It would seem to me that the link above re inertia selling is black and white. A positive opt in without any confirmation can not be included in a contract in Ireland.
Good luck with it but I'd say it won't go that far based on previous customer experiences.
Again, thanks for the update and keep us informed.

kub · 13-09-2017 12:31pm

I cannot imagine Phonewatch going to court, that is PR that goes against their image of being ' so caring and wonderful '

amadablam · 13-09-2017 1:05pm

kub wrote: »

I cannot imagine Phonewatch going to court, that is PR that goes against their image of being ' so caring and wonderful '

Id agree but he told me that they or the debt collection agency would recover payment through courts if necessary.

I got a copy of an easily fabricated news letter in lieu of the one I never received and it is supposed to be the one emailed to me but doesn't include any internet headers or anything requested and I have responded that unless the above is supplied, I am not accepting its validity. It doesnt include anything at all in relation to sender or source and is merely an embedded image.

Its like this guy is on a personal crusade to force me to stay with them or pay for a years monitoring that I never signed up for!!

The has the audacity to refute the term strong arm tactics!

jelutong · 13-09-2017 1:27pm

I had a similar experience when my 3 year contract came to an end. To me
a 3 year contract is a 3 year contract.I got several bills and snotty emails. I didn't pay needless to say. I wouldn't touch Phonewatch with a barge pole. Appalling customer service and bad mannered call centre staff.

amadablam · 03-10-2017 11:49am

Quick response and any advice welcome.

Less than a week after I last posted I got a letter telling me that they were terminating service to my house if I didn't make payment immediately.

Completely ignoring my cancellation and cancelled direct debit and the data protection request.

One week after the letter above, which I ignored. I get another letter telling me that if I don't pay the balance of the one year contract, which they won't provide proof of, because I haven't signed one, I have a letter threatening legal action, credit rating report and passing to a debt collection agency justica ignum in seven days and a threatened court action.

Is it just me or does that process seem extremely aggressive?

I've no idea what to do. Im not going through the hours of calling them and I am hoping that the data protection request will give me proof that they never notified me at all.

Not wanting to deflect but is this extremely aggressive and what should I do? They want 350+ for something I never received nor signed up for

KoolKid · 03-10-2017 12:46pm

Not giving legal advice here just my opinion.
Continue all cossospondance in writing.
Get your solicitor to send them a letter stating your requests and outlining the issues with an inertia selling clause in your contract.
To me looking at it it seems very clear that they can not use this method of renewing contracts.

amadablam · 03-10-2017 5:05pm

Well, major developments in the last few hours.

I'll update the thread once I receive the letter that is, apparently, being issued to me.

Interesting turn of events

Phonewatch contract

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