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DVB-T Tuner Project

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    #2
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,971 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    The aim is to have 4 x DVB-T tuners in one small case with one USB cable out and one (maybe two) aerial lead input/s.

    In addition an external 5V supply will be connected to power the dongles.

    To facilitate this a small USB 2, powered hub will be used inside the case for the dongles to plug into.

    I will most likely need a small 5V fan to ensure heat does not become a problem.

    I have only one remaining question ...

    Can all four dongle 'aerial inputs' be joined directly together without any circuitry? ... both signal wire and screen.

    I expect so, but just wanted to check with those who know better.

    Thanks.

    Dongle examples:

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/E4000-USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Antenna-Receiver-NEW-/122069996882

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/E4000-USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Antenna-Receiver-CY-/172761729507

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/DVB-T-DAB-FM-Radio-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-software-defined-SDR-HDTV-Win7-/222217841761

    If your input signal is strong enough there should be no issue. But why do you need 4? 2 should be enough to record as many channels as you would like on Saorview, unless of coarse you receive Freeview via the same antenna?


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    #3
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    emaherx wrote: »
    If your input signal is strong enough there should be no issue. But why do you need 4? 2 should be enough to record as many channels as you would like on Saorview, unless of coarse you receive Freeview via the same antenna?

    I have an immediate need for three (2 Saorview) and intend to include a spare tuner, given the low cost of each and the 'spare' connection in the hub.
    That extra tuner will cost about €8 extra ;)


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    #4
    winston_1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭winston_1


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »

    Can all four dongle 'aerial inputs' be joined directly together without any circuitry? ... both signal wire and screen.

    I expect so, but just wanted to check with those who know better.

    No. That will cause a serious mismatch. Use a four way splitter.


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    #5
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Hi John,

    here is a useful link to help determine whether you can get them to work.

    https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

    I notice there is at least one device in there with the RTL2832U R820T combination that does not work.

    Caveat Emptor.


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    #6
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    winston_1 wrote: »
    No. That will cause a serious mismatch. Use a four way splitter.
    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Hi John,

    here is a useful link to help determine whether you can get them to work.

    https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

    I notice there is at least one device in there with the RTL2832U R820T combination that does not work.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Thank you both.

    I will have to re-assess things somewhat considering the need for combiners/splitters.


    Maybe this would be better .....


    What should work for me is a twin tuner stick for Saorview, provided it is Linux compatible.

    I could then use a single tuner for my other need (Edision HDMI>DVB-T).

    Put two separate inputs and no need for combiners/splitters.

    Maybe add a third input for a fourth spare tuner.


    I would of course much prefer to buy a commercial device to do this, but I have not found anything like it anywhere I searched.

    I presently have a couple of USB tuner dongles, one an RTL2832U and the other an older Afatech 9013/9016.
    So I am reasonably happy they will do what I need individually.

    Is there a better way?

    I want a triple or quad terrestrial tuner device that I can plug into a PC/R-Pi and have tvheadend manage the tuners there. So a simple dumb device connected via USB is ideal.

    Maybe this stick which is reported as Linux compatible and is good for Saorview....
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/dual-tuner-dvb-t-digital-tv-usb-stick-a17hg but I saw some mention of it not playing Freeview HD channels, but no mention why as yet.
    Once it does Saorview it would not matter.

    Further comments?
    Suggestions for a twin tuner stick?


    EDIT:

    I am probably better off using single tuner sticks, two of them to a splitter to one aerial input and the third to a separate aerial input.
    Now to find a suitable case ..... maybe a borked sat receiver case would suit ..... or something like that .... Silvercrest did nice compact ones ...


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    #7
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    T...
    Maybe this stick which is reported as Linux compatible and is good for Saorview....
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/dual-tuner-dvb-t-digital-tv-usb-stick-a17hg but I saw some mention of it not playing Freeview HD channels, but no mention why as yet.
    Once it does Saorview it would not matter.
    ..
    Probably not T2 compatible for FreeView HD


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    #8
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    Probably not T2 compatible for FreeView HD

    Probably ..... but it is moot I think as the device does not seem to be available anymore.
    I think maybe 2 x rtl2832U sticks and a splitter will do the job better ..... even if one fails the other would be available.


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    #9
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    johnboy did you go ahead with this?

    I'm looking at getting 2 x rtl sdrs for saorview via tvheadend


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    #10
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    johnboy did you go ahead with this?

    I'm looking at getting 2 x rtl sdrs for saorview via tvheadend

    The answer is a yes and a no :D

    Yes I have presently two DVB-T USB dongles connected and working as I expected. They are plugged into a powered USB 2 hub.
    Each has an aerial feed to it.
    Both are set up in tvheadend.
    1 x RTL2832U
    1 x Afatech 9013/9015 -- an old stick I have had for years

    The USB hub, as well as the Digibit R1 Sat box are connected to the backend 'tuner box' with the TBS cards in the tuner PC disabled (both Sat and Terrestrial cards).

    All is working as expected.


    What is not done is the housing and proper physical set up.

    I have been trying to locate a few suitable case mounted connectors for the aerial leads.
    I might have to kludge this.
    I will be ordering a couple of more rtl2832u devices for the final build .... they are smaller and so more compact in the case.
    I also have to finally settle on the case, but have a 'temporary' one for initial build.
    I also have to do the cut-out in this case for the cooling fan .... a 5V unit from an old laptop cooler.

    So, in short, the two dongles I have are working as expected but I have been delayed with the physical build (mostly a number of reasons not connected with this project).


    So if anyone reading this can point me to a suitable bulkhead mounted TV Aerial socket I would appreciate it ;)
    I have not yet finally decided whether to put the aerial splitter inside the case or externally. External would allow the output to be used by an external device if required but internal would be neater ;)


    I have delayed purchase of the devices I need that I have sourced, until I can get all the parts ordered at the same time.
    (that's my excuse anyway :D )

    You should have no problems with the rtl2832u working with tvheadend.
    I would though advise that you seriously consider their placement as they tend to get rather hot (like all DVB-T dongles) when in use.
    Previously I placed the Afatech in the intake airflow path of a PC and that seemed to do the job. For this I will be using a small cooling fan to move air through the case.

    EDIT to include pic of two DVB-T dongles and three of the four Digibit DVB-S2 tuners enabled in Tvheadend

    30azyqc.jpg

    Connections showing four Saorview channels (2 HD) and also three HD Sat connections all running concurrently

    4i2242.jpg


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    #11
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    thanks johnboy.

    I have TVH running at the moment on my main pc through hyper V on a debian virtual machine and it's running inside a docker container, (currently trying to solve issues with file permissions for recordings) and it's just a pain trying to find solid iptv streams that don't drop out to test this on my internet so going to go with a cheap rtlsdr and then eventually maybe move on to TBS pcie cards which would hopefully be a bit more reliable in terms of cooling etc. At the moment the streams when opened in vlc or tvh buffer & play perfectly for I guess one .ts 'chunk' and then transfers drop to 0bps before the stream fully drops on tvh and will start again with a delay on VLC so I can't really use it to test out the system at all at the moment, but iptv was never the plan just to use in lieu of having OTA tuners for testing..


    I was building a standalone pc for this but either way I figure I'd end up having to either build a third box as a NAS or be leaving my main pc on for storage so it just makes sense now to plan for it all to be on this pc, except for stuff like long cable runs for antennas & connection to satellite but I'll just have to figure that out

    but anyway.. rtl sdrs will work so thanks for that.

    as an aside just remembering what you were trying to do with hdmi to iptv, have you considered using a capture card and ffmpeg / vlc to stream locally before bringing that into tvheadend? those blackmagic h264 encoders could do the heavy lifting and you just pipe the output into ffmepg.. would be interesting to know if that would work. I suppose there could be lots of problems with audio and hdcp and so on


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    #12
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    @ Johnboy. I presume you have the RF to MCX cables.

    The Realtek SDR sticks work fine in a Linux environment the last time I checked. From memory The 820T part is the DVB-T. Their range is 24MHZ to 1850MHZ so they cover a lot more than DVB-T band.

    Was there a reason that you didnt just use a couple of twin Dvb-t tuners ?


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    #13
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    thanks johnboy.

    I have TVH running at the moment on my main pc through hyper V on a debian virtual machine and it's running inside a docker container, (currently trying to solve issues with file permissions for recordings) and it's just a pain trying to find solid iptv streams that don't drop out to test this on my internet so going to go with a cheap rtlsdr and then eventually maybe move on to TBS pcie cards which would hopefully be a bit more reliable in terms of cooling etc. At the moment the streams when opened in vlc or tvh buffer & play perfectly for I guess one .ts 'chunk' and then transfers drop to 0bps before the stream fully drops on tvh and will start again with a delay on VLC so I can't really use it to test out the system at all at the moment, but iptv was never the plan just to use in lieu of having OTA tuners for testing..


    I was building a standalone pc for this but either way I figure I'd end up having to either build a third box as a NAS or be leaving my main pc on for storage so it just makes sense now to plan for it all to be on this pc, except for stuff like long cable runs for antennas & connection to satellite but I'll just have to figure that out

    I made what I consider to be a costly error some years ago, when I built a dedicated HTPC with all new hardware and good case suitable for 'under the TV' like a tape/dvd recorder.

    My present backend PC is an old Dell Dimension 5150 that I got for nothing as it was being thrown out.
    It has two PCI-e slots for the TBS cards and runs tvheadend without problems.
    The OS used is libreelec, although I only use its video out for set up when required (rare now except I am trying something new).

    My intention now is to take that PC out of service, and use the Digibit and the USB stick tuners to replace it, along with a R-Pi or similar, to run the backend software (libreelec again).
    I will need to prove the DVB-T dongles as suitable over the longer period, but I feel fairly confident if I get the housing and cooling right there should be no problem.
    I will also buy a few spare dongles - 'just in case'. At ~8 euros apiece I have no prob with that!
    but anyway.. rtl sdrs will work so thanks for that.

    as an aside just remembering what you were trying to do with hdmi to iptv, have you considered using a capture card and ffmpeg / vlc to stream locally before bringing that into tvheadend? those blackmagic h264 encoders could do the heavy lifting and you just pipe the output into ffmepg.. would be interesting to know if that would work. I suppose there could be lots of problems with audio and hdcp and so on

    Because it was my intention to get rid of the PC (and it not having any spare PCI-e slots) I did not want to get a PC card. I bought an Edision HDMI>DVB-T modulator for the purpose. It cost more than I wanted to pay, but it is functioning very well and I am happy with it.
    That is what pushed me into this DVB project as I needed a third tuner for the Edision.
    If I had found a reasonably priced DVB-T box with 3 or 4 tuners that tvheadend could use I would have gone that route.

    I have also been trialling a LKV373A device which does the HDMI>IP on the LAN but I am not quite satisfied with it. You have no doubt seen the discussion on this thread
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057740122
    I might yet use it with a dedicated NIC ..... maybe a USB to ethernet adaptor to easily keep it separated. I might even be able to put that adaptor into this build .......


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    #14
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    STB. wrote: »
    @ Johnboy. I presume you have the RF to MCX cables.

    Yes the dongles came with them and I bought a spare which I have cut and used for testing :)
    The Realtek SDR sticks work fine in a Linux environment the last time I checked. From memory The 820T part is the DVB-T. Their range is 24MHZ to 1850MHZ so they cover a lot more than DVB-T band.

    Yes I have used the RTL2832U in my main Linux box to receive FM radio as well as DVB-T.
    I think I had to unload the DVB-T module in order to enable the radio.
    I have not set it up on my new install (for KDE Plasma 5) so cannot remember the exact details.
    This is what I used in Chrome & Slimjet
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/radio-receiver/miieomcelenidlleokajkghmifldohpo?hl=en

    One could have lots of fun with that scouring the various bands etc. :D
    Was there a reason that you didnt just use a couple of twin Dvb-t tuners ?

    If you mean twin tuner dongles ..... I was put off by the fact that any I found as reported as working well, seemed to be no longer produced. In addition their price was high.
    As I would still need a USB hub if using a R-Pi as backend, I thought the individual tuners would be better ...... device fails I lose one tuner .... one cheap tuner €8.

    If you meant twin tuner commercial devices then the hdhomerun seemed to be the only candidate for tvheadend and I would need two of them which would cost about €250.
    I decided €40 and a bit of work was preferable ..... being the cheapskate I am :D

    BTW ...
    I have stripped an old PACE Sky box and am considering using that.
    I have left the PSU in it to see if it provides suitable current to power what I want. If so that would suit me better.


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    #15
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    FYI ... I bought 2 of these on eBay:

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/E4000-USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Antenna-Receiver-NEW-/122069996882?hash=item1c6bf05552:g:H6kAAOSwZVlXoHPk

    Arrived way ahead of scheduled date.

    total cost was €15.23 for 2. Plugged in to Pi running raspbian (via powered hub) and were picked up straight away. No messing around with firmware. Mapped them to my 2RN network in tvheadend and worked straight away. Very cheap and working 100%.

    Edit: regular RF connections not MCX.


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    #16
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    FYI ... I bought 2 of these on eBay:

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/E4000-USB-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-Realtek-RTL2832U-R820T-DVB-T-Tuner-Antenna-Receiver-NEW-/122069996882?hash=item1c6bf05552:g:H6kAAOSwZVlXoHPk

    Arrived way ahead of scheduled date.

    total cost was €15.23 for 2. Plugged in to Pi running raspbian (via powered hub) and were picked up straight away. No messing around with firmware. Mapped them to my 2RN network in tvheadend and worked straight away. Very cheap and working 100%.

    Edit: regular RF connections not MCX.

    Yes I am really enamoured with the rtl2832u devices.
    Have ordered a few of that type myself .... might even be from the same vendor.
    Good to know the delivery is relatively quick.

    Oh yes ...... let us know if you think the units are getting a bit too hot please ;)


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    #17
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Yes I am really enamoured with the rtl2832u devices.
    Have ordered a few of that type myself .... might even be from the same vendor.
    Good to know the delivery is relatively quick.

    Oh yes ...... let us know if you think the units are getting a bit too hot please ;)

    Obsessed with the heat John.

    These do run pretty hot. So do the Mygica ones which i had in there until today. I bought these for a friend who wants a set up like my own, so I will be switching back to the MyGica ones once I have him up and running.


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    #18
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Obsessed with the heat John.

    These do run pretty hot. So do the Mygica ones which i had in there until today. I bought these for a friend who wants a set up like my own, so I will be switching back to the MyGica ones once I have him up and running.

    Yes a little ...... since I burned my finger on one a few years back.
    I eventually stuck a small heatsink (case removed) on it and put it in a bit of airflow which kept everything working very nicely and not overheating.

    ;)


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    #19
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I have tested most of the operations of what I am building but need to get things together to finally build it and get all these pieces where they should be :D

    I had asked in a previous post if anyone could point me to a "bulkhead mounted TV Aerial socket" on sale somewhere.
    I have had a terrible time trying to locate something that pokes through a hole in the case that takes a standard RF aerial plug :(
    I want something that will connect internally to a flying lead, either by soldering or screw terminal.
    I need three.

    I also have revised my plans for this build.
    I now intend to include a R-Pi and a USB connected HDD/SSD in the case.

    The plan is the R-Pi will run LibreElec with tvheadend to manage the 3 DVB-T tuners in the case and also the 4 DVB-S tuners in the Telestar.

    The possible bottleneck is the ethernet connection of the R-Pi, but as I have a Pi here I will try it for a while. If necessary I can change it sometime in the future.

    I am hopeful, when completed, this will be my backend media server in conjunction with the Telestar. I can then get rid of the Dell Dimension 5150 and TBS cards which is fulfilling this function presently.

    Yes it means replacing one big PC with two smaller devices, but they take up less space and are quieter (even with the cooling fan I insist on :D )

    I have yet to decide on a PSU for this.
    I have space for an internal one, and am considering several options.
    I could do with suggestions on this also.
    I reckon I should be safe with 5V 5A (25W) PSU for all the internal devices ..... R-Pi; 3 Dongles; 3.5" HDD .... with room for changes if necessary.

    http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-switch-mode-power-supplies-smps/1065829/

    https://circuitspecialists.glopal.com/en-IE/p-295/5-volt-enclosed-switching-mini-dc-power-supply-5v-5a-25w.html?utm_campaign=en_GB&utm_medium=pr&utm_source=www.circuitspecialists.eu

    This might even be sufficient, but I don't trust it
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mains-Charger-5V-3A-UK-3-Pin-Plug-Adapter-Power-Supply-Cyclone-Voyager-Tablet-PC-/400694801850?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

    Something of this nature might be better
    https://www.adafruit.com/product/1466
    There seems to be plenty to choose from
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-AC-4000mA-4A-Power-Supply-AC-Adapter-Charger-5-5mm-x-2-5mm-4A-/121932480559

    The largest difficulty I have is sourcing connectors for the back panel .....
    mains input
    RJ45
    RF Aerial Coax sockets

    There is a board mounted 2 pin mains socket in the case which I might be able to kludge and use, if pushed.
    I would prefer to use a standard 3 pin power socket.

    That is the update.
    Not built, but the plans have been expanded and I see no insurmountable problems, if I can source the rear panel connectors and the decide on the PSU.

    Just came across this which might solve the coax connector problem
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-TV-UHF-VHF-Antenna-Input-Plug-Base-RF-Socket-Extention-Metal-Type-Female-/252933390018?hash=item3ae4013ec2:g:F~IAAOSwFV9X1iUc

    All comments appreciated ;)


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    #20
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I never did get back to this thread, so here is what I ended up with ....

    I splurged on a
    HDHomerun Quatro DVB-T tuner (pleaded with the financial director :))
    Digibit R1 quad DVB-S tuner fed from an Inverto Unicable II LNB
    Saorview aerial
    Edision HDMI>DVB-T for a Skybox +HD HDMI output (eir sports)
    Tanix TX 3 mini Android box, but running CoreELEC from SD card to manage all the tuners and connections to client devices etc.
    Gb/s Switch

    All in a central media press with DECT base station for POTS line, and also a DECT station for VOIP from a Draytak router.

    It has all been running reliably for a couple of months now.

    The End. :D


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