Age 51, finding a job

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 12:17pm #1

Hi, I'm a Russian who's been living in Ireland for nearly 20 years. In Ireland I got my Masters degree and phd in applied mathematics and theoretical physics. However, it seems that I am entirely unemployable.

I want to start another masters with the aim of maximum employability (which is especially important considering my age of 51). Does anyone know anything in the maths/statistics/physics area which is well sought after in Dublin/Ireland?

I have already looked into Actuarial Science in UCD (the course material looks like it would be quite easy considering my knowledge) but it is really expensive and it would be hard to pay the money without knowing whether or not I will find a job, or whether those jobs will be snapped up by young, fresh graduates. Are there any areas I should definitely look into? Thanks

Stheno · 08-09-2016 12:28pm

What have you previously worked as?

LMK · 08-09-2016 2:04pm

I doubt if you are unemployable, but you might have to start at entry level, provided you know what it is you want to achieve.
With your qualifications if you can code you should be able to pick up work relatively easily if that is something you would consider.
If I was you I'd begin by calling directly (over the phone or in person) into small indigenous companies that you would consider as desirable employers, and have your "elevator pitch" well rehearsed beforehand.
In my view a lot of smaller employers value work experience more valuable than qualifications.

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 2:29pm

Stheno wrote: »

What have you previously worked as?

I worked for 4.5 years in research, in a research institute - DIAS (Dublin Institute of advanced studies). I also worked in research for 12 years in Russia in a nuclear institute (although I'm not sure if this is accepted by anyone in Ireland as anything important)

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 2:33pm

LMK wrote: »

I doubt if you are unemployable, but you might have to start at entry level, provided you know what it is you want to achieve.
With your qualifications if you can code you should be able to pick up work relatively easily if that is something you would consider.
If I was you I'd begin by calling directly (over the phone or in person) into small indigenous companies that you would consider as desirable employers, and have your "elevator pitch" well rehearsed beforehand.
In my view a lot of smaller employers value work experience more valuable than qualifications.

What do you mean by entry level?
I cannot code and I would rather not start learning this because it is outside of my field. Maybe as a last resort.
By elevator pitch do you mean like a salesperson selling themselves? Is there any reason to do this over just giving my CV? Doing this in person might also be disadvantageous. I have a strong Russian accent which many people might judge me for.

StupidLikeAFox · 08-09-2016 2:49pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

Hi, I'm a Russian who's been living in Ireland for nearly 20 years. In Ireland I got my Masters degree and phd in applied mathematics and theoretical physics. However, it seems that I am entirely unemployable.

I want to start another masters with the aim of maximum employability (which is especially important considering my age of 51). Does anyone know anything in the maths/statistics/physics area which is well sought after in Dublin/Ireland?

I have already looked into Actuarial Science in UCD (the course material looks like it would be quite easy considering my knowledge) but it is really expensive and it would be hard to pay the money without knowing whether or not I will find a job, or whether those jobs will be snapped up by young, fresh graduates. Are there any areas I should definitely look into? Thanks

Look into Data Analytics / Data Scientist jobs - they are highly paid, in a growing area, and they specifically look for people with your background

LMK · 08-09-2016 2:50pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

What do you mean by entry level?
I cannot code and I would rather not start learning this because it is outside of my field. Maybe as a last resort.
By elevator pitch do you mean like a salesperson selling themselves? Is there any reason to do this over just giving my CV? Doing this in person might also be disadvantageous. I have a strong Russian accent which many people might judge me for.

Entry level means willing to begin at the bottom.
Elevator pitch is a short monologue explaining what it is you do to a stranger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator_pitch
You accent might be judged by some but not everyone.
Because you are not a new/young college graduate, face to face V's depending on a CV will yield better results IMO, this might be daunting but it will give you direct employer feedback.
You are obviously academic, you experience is in the area of research.....in Ireland you will more likely have to a multi-tasker unless you have a very specific desirable skill that an employer requires, the size of the country dictates this.

Saipanne · 08-09-2016 2:51pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Look into Data Analytics / Data Scientist jobs - they are highly paid, in a growing area, and they specifically look for people with your background

This, banks are especially hiring in these areas.

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 5:43pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Look into Data Analytics / Data Scientist jobs - they are highly paid, in a growing area, and they specifically look for people with your background

What Masters degree should I be looking at to make myself more employable in these areas? Or do you think I may already have enough qualification to convince them?
In terms of applying to banks, how should I do this exactly? Should I call them or send them an email? Sorry, but finding a job is not the strong point

LMK wrote: »

Entry level means willing to begin at the bottom.
Elevator pitch is a short monologue explaining what it is you do to a stranger.
You accent might be judged by some but not everyone.
Because you are not a new/young college graduate, face to face V's depending on a CV will yield better results IMO, this might be daunting but it will give you direct employer feedback.
You are obviously academic, you experience is in the area of research.....in Ireland you will more likely have to a multi-tasker unless you have a very specific desirable skill that an employer requires, the size of the country dictates this.

What exactly do you mean by multi-tasking in this context?
Thank you

Saipanne · 08-09-2016 7:03pm

Example of job:

http://ie.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=4a3147ed5bef9a5a&from=serp

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 7:08pm

Saipanne wrote: »

Example of job:

This looks quite good except for "strong programming ability". I will try this nonetheless. Do many of these data analyst jobs require good programming?

Stheno · 08-09-2016 7:09pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

This looks quite good except for "strong programming ability". I will try this nonetheless. Do many of these data analyst jobs require good programming?

Most would yes.

Mint Aero · 08-09-2016 7:10pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by multi-tasking in this context?
Thank you

She means learn code and do other stuff that has nothing to do with your profession or interest :rolleyes: only in Ireland do you get HR nonsense like that.

Stheno · 08-09-2016 7:15pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

What Masters degree should I be looking at to make myself more employable in these areas? Or do you think I may already have enough qualification to convince them?
In terms of applying to banks, how should I do this exactly? Should I call them or send them an email? Sorry, but finding a job is not the strong point

I'd spend your money going to see a careers coach tbh.

Senna · 08-09-2016 7:22pm

No idea what part of the country you are in, but you would walk into some of these jobs: their in Donegal

https://www.pramerica.ie/careers/jobs/data-science/

Sorry just seen your in Dublin

Stheno · 08-09-2016 7:23pm

Senna wrote: »

No idea what part of the country you are in, but you would walk into some of these jobs: their in Donegal

https://www.pramerica.ie/careers/jobs/data-science/

Sorry just seen your in Dublin

They are all looking for Oracle SQL and Tableau experience? OP has none of those?

Dr Turk Turkelton · 08-09-2016 7:27pm

With a PhD in applied mathematics would you not walk into a job in one of the large bookmakers like Paddy Power?

Stheno · 08-09-2016 7:31pm

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

With a PhD in applied mathematics would you not walk into a job in one of the large bookmakers like Paddy Power?

I think OPs problem is a lack of practical background, PP would probably be looking for the likes of actuaries, and quantitive (sp?) analysts, but would want some IT/Coding skills also, as a lot of the work those guys do is using coding/tech.

The actuarial degree in UCD might be worth considering, I think you get an actuarial qualification from that which is industry recognised.

Senna · 08-09-2016 7:40pm

Stheno wrote: »

They are all looking for Oracle SQL and Tableau experience? OP has none of those?

No, bit of excel experience would more than do for Data Analysis roles, Data Scientist role is mgt but op role doesn't require coding skills.
Those job specs are another example of HR wish lists which don't represent who they would be willing hire.

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 7:46pm

Thanks all for the replies. Yes, you get the actuarial qualification from the Masters degree in UCD, however, you say that many of these jobs require programming? I could try learning programming but I will be at a massive disadvantage to the young nowadays. It is not playing to my strength - which would be my good mathematical/problem solving skills

There is another question of just passing the exams required to be an actuary, rather than doing a masters but I am not sure how easy this is to do.

My biggest worry of all is that I will spend 13,000 euro on the masters degree, and find that I am still not suited to work at these companies because they want younger people with experience with programming which I don't have. I will be back at square one, with 13,000 wasted.

Stheno wrote: »

I'd spend your money going to see a careers coach tbh.

Can you suggest any good ones or where I can look for one? I am afraid to go to university ones because they will just advertise their own courses

intheclouds · 08-09-2016 8:23pm

What about looking for lecturing jobs?

Check out springboard courses, no need to spend 13k when you can do a data science post dip for free in one year with dbs.

Mrs cockett · 08-09-2016 9:19pm

Sign up with a recruitment agency

NotaSheep · 08-09-2016 10:05pm

There is a lot of research programmes going around that are European funded - they often look for people with your kid of research expertise. Familiarise yourself with Horizon 2020 EU Funding Programme and you can see who the companies/institutes in this area are (see also CORDIS database for latest projects). You could also register as an expert with the European Union, being 51 can actually be an advantage. You can also register as an expert under other programmes.

Francie Barrett · 08-09-2016 10:12pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

Thanks all for the replies. Yes, you get the actuarial qualification from the Masters degree in UCD, however, you say that many of these jobs require programming? I could try learning programming but I will be at a massive disadvantage to the young nowadays. It is not playing to my strength - which would be my good mathematical/problem solving skills

Programming is all about problem solving and can be extremely mathematical!

I definitely think you should spend a month or two doing some programming in Java. If you like it, then you can take the Java certification, costs £200. If you pass that, then combined with your degrees, you have enough to start applying for full time entry level jobs (25-30k starting, 50k within 3 years if you work hard). Don't worry about not having a formal qualification in IT. If you can demonstrate an ability to program and have a degree in a related area, you can go for any entry level IT job. In fact, the fact you have a physics/mathematics degree is actually in your favour with some companies. I know any Russian/Polish person I have interviewed with qualifications like yours, I have hired and not regretted it.

Avatar MIA · 08-09-2016 10:17pm

I doubt another masters is the way to go.

+1 for going to a recruitment agency/careers advisor.

You're already well educated in good career areas.

fret_wimp2 · 08-09-2016 10:24pm

Machine Learning, Analytics & Business intelligence are the way forward, particularly if you have good Mathematics.
Maths are the difficult part, all the reast is easy to learn.

To get an idea of if its something you would enjoy, maybe take a course or two on edx.org. Full of accredited courses that can be taken in a week or two, and also give you a basic intro into the technology side of things. if its something you like, take more courses and see if you can get some actual experience somewhere! you wont be long working up the ladder.

Caroleia · 08-09-2016 10:44pm

I have heard that Irish Life are recruiting actuaries at the moment, sorry I don't have any contact details though

gazeb21 · 08-09-2016 10:46pm

Thank you all for the replies.

As suggested, I found the post dip in data analytics: springboardcourses.ie/details/4697
This course is done for free with the application deadline running soon. Does this look like a good course?

Mrs cockett wrote: »

Sign up with a recruitment agency

I have already contacted many recruitment agencies over the years. Most of them don't know what to do with me. The ones that want me to be an actuary, want me to first get an exemption from the necessary exams.

NotaSheep wrote: »

There is a lot of research programmes going around that are European funded - they often look for people with your kid of research expertise. Familiarise yourself with Horizon 2020 EU Funding Programme and you can see who the companies/institutes in this area are (see also CORDIS database for latest projects). You could also register as an expert with the European Union, being 51 can actually be an advantage. You can also register as an expert under other programmes.

I have never heard of this programme, will definitely take a look.

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Machine Learning, Analytics & Business intelligence are the way forward, particularly if you have good Mathematics.
Maths are the difficult part, all the reast is easy to learn.

To get an idea of if its something you would enjoy, maybe take a course or two on edx.org. Full of accredited courses that can be taken in a week or two, and also give you a basic intro into the technology side of things. if its something you like, take more courses and see if you can get some actual experience somewhere! you wont be long working up the ladder.

I will look into those courses.

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I doubt another masters is the way to go.

+1 for going to a recruitment agency/careers advisor.

You're already well educated in good career areas.

As I said, the recruitment agencies seem completely useless. The local employment centre gave me a course about how to find a job. It was interesting but hasn't practically helped. If you can suggest what work I could find with my current qualification (and lacking experience) then you will have saved me from many hours of useless agencies.

Mech1 · 08-09-2016 10:50pm

Just by the way, its easier to get a job if your already working. Go get any job this week, minimum wage even, then concentrate on bettering it.

Teyla Emmagan · 08-09-2016 10:56pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote:

Look into Data Analytics / Data Scientist jobs - they are highly paid, in a growing area, and they specifically look for people with your background

Exactly what I was thinking. There is a 2 year part time course in NCI in the IFSC which might suit you. It's just called "Data Analytics" I think. It's supposed to be pretty tough and a big time commitment for a part time course and I know the drop out rate is really high, but it's a huge growth area. They literally can't fill the jobs. A guy I know just started and he reckons he will be able to charge a good 600 a day when he finishes. Go and look up 'data analyst' jobs on Irishjobs.is and see what you think. That course is literally starting now though.

Stheno · 08-09-2016 11:04pm

gazeb21 wrote: »

Thank you all for the replies.

As suggested, I found the post dip in data analytics: springboardcourses.ie/details/4697
This course is done for free with the application deadline running soon. Does this look like a good course?

I have already contacted many recruitment agencies over the years. Most of them don't know what to do with me. The ones that want me to be an actuary, want me to first get an exemption from the necessary exams.

I have never heard of this programme, will definitely take a look.

I will look into those courses.

As I said, the recruitment agencies seem completely useless. The local employment centre gave me a course about how to find a job. It was interesting but hasn't practically helped. If you can suggest what work I could find with my current qualification (and lacking experience) then you will have saved me from many hours of useless agencies.

The more you post, the more I am convinced your issue is that you do not have a qualification that is practical for the work place.

I think all of the courses you have posted above are worth exploring as they will add to your PHD

Age 51, finding a job

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