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Finland to give a basic income of €800 a month

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  • 07-12-2015 1:19am
    #1
    Doc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭


    Finland plans to give every citizen a basic income of 800 euros a month.

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/12/06/comment-finland-plans-give-every-citizen-basic-income-800-euros-month

    The proposals for a national basic income are intended to simplify the social security system and encourage more unemployed people to take on temporary work.

    Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income.

    Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments.

    Switzerland is also considering introducing a national basic income. In September the Swiss parliament voted, with a large majority, for a motion calling on the Swiss people to reject the Popular Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income. However, a nationwide referendum on the issue is slated for 2016 and, according to a recent online poll, 49% of the Swiss would currently vote in favour of its introduction.

    Think this could work in Ireland?

    I think its a very good idea.


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Comments

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    #2
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    If we could afford it, if it replaced all other benefits including child allowance, rent allowance etc then it would certainly encourage people to seek work.


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    #3
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    The "It's my tax money funding them lazy...." would implode here.


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    #4
    Vandango
    Closed Accounts Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Vandango


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    If we could afford it, if it replaced all other benefits including child allowance, rent allowance etc then it would certainly encourage people to seek work.

    We might be able to afford it, it we stopped paying children's allowances to those who can well afford to go without it.


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    #5
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?


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    #6
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Personally think its a great idea but thats because since I tend to be on short contracts on fairly low it would really benefit me.
    It would remove the perverse effect that occurs where if your unemployed you might as well be unemployed for a longer period of time to gain access to benefits, a quick example of this is how the Dole christmass bonus is going to only be paid to those on the dole longer term (I'm not one of those that thinks there is loads of work out there but christmass is an easier time to get casual work).


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    #7
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Vandango wrote: »
    We might be able to afford it, it we stopped paying children's allowances to those who can well afford to go without it.

    But every body gets this.


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    #8
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?

    If you had a free council house quiet easily I imagine.


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    #9
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    But every body gets this.

    Yup people with kids in blackrock college have no problem claiming it.


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    #10
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    The "It's my tax money funding them lazy...." would implode here.

    Nope because the idea is that everybody will go out to work. It won't be enough to live on (particularly if rent allowance is abolished) so people will go part time working at the very least.


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    #11
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Nope because the idea is that everybody will go out to work. It won't be enough to live on (particularly if rent allowance is abolished) so people will go part time working at the very least.

    I can just imagine the monocles falling and the paper being shaken in rage.


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    #12
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?

    I'm a student who can't find work, I live on less than 200 a week


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    #13
    XR3i
    Site Banned Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭XR3i


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?


    invest your 800 in pokerstars, play badugi, double your money


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    #14
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    Hasn't the labour party muted something about a living wage for working payments where the government will supplement parents, who take up low payed work if they would otherwise remain unemployed. The idea being they would be guaranteed €11.50 per hour. Plans like that have pros and cons of course, it is a positive thing if we can prevent people from becoming long term unemployed, but, it will give employer an increased justification for reducing basic pay if the government will pick up the shortfall.
    Those government bumps in salary will have to come from somewhere, so those lucky enough, or who worked hard enough to have a good career with a better salary will likely have to pay increased taxes to supplement this, reducing their spend power.

    Their relative wealth vs a low skill early school leaver will diminish, and the importance of third level education for your career could be diluted.


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    #15
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Nope because the idea is that everybody will go out to work. It won't be enough to live on (particularly if rent allowance is abolished) so people will go part time working at the very least.

    The question is what benefits if any do you keep paying out?
    Disability benefit becomes massively abused when there is an incentive to be declared disabled (see Northern Ireland) but on the flipside being disabled does bring extra costs.

    Child benefit is needed to some extent particularly with high childcare.

    Could you get away with hiking up council rents to close to the market values

    sure every group would argue that its own needs are exceptional and should be protected and so the whole point of the exercise would flop


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    #16
    Sir Osis of Liver.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Sir Osis of Liver.


    Can you buy Dutch Gold in Finland?


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    #17
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    For those over 25, and on benefits of 188 per week here, that's 814 per month at the moment.


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    #18
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    Stheno wrote: »
    For those over 25, and on benefits of 188 per week here, that's 814 per month at the moment.

    Thanks for that John Joe.


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    #19
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    The Sidewards Man wrote: »
    If you had a free council house quiet easily I imagine.
    A free council house that you must pay rent on. Like any other house you rent, except the rent is a percentage of your income for a council house.;)


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    #20
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Stheno wrote: »
    For those over 25, and on benefits of 188 per week here, that's 814 per month at the moment.

    Cant be, I have been told they get free sky in every room a free house all their bills paid and so on. :pac:


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    #21
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »
    Can you buy Dutch Gold in Finland?

    Well they have the same ludicrously priced alcohol we do.


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    #22
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    pablo128 wrote: »
    A free council house that you must pay rent on. Like any other house you rent, except the rent is a percentage of your income for a council house.;)

    The key is to have minimum 5 kids, average rent is €20 per week then ;)

    Did I get the wink right ;)


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    #23
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    The Sidewards Man wrote: »
    The key is to have minimum 5 kids, average rent is €20 per week then ;)

    Did I get the wink right ;)

    The wink is right. The rent is wrong. ;)


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    #24
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »
    Can you buy Dutch Gold in Finland?

    Believe it or not, the only place in the world you can buy Dutch Gold is in Ireland!


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    #25
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    pablo128 wrote: »
    The wink is right. The rent is wrong. ;)

    I only have second hand info, so tell.


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    #26
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    A single man/woman, no children and 25+, gets 9,917 per year (including Xmas bonus). This proposal would be 9,600 per year.

    There are also already provisions for people to work part-time and earn extra under certain education schemes.


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    #27
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?

    Its tough but sometimes you just have to. It's what we got for the 2 of us until I started getting paid 1000.


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    #28
    XR3i
    Site Banned Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭XR3i


    nobody wants to go to finland

    i wouldn't go there if they offered me a free limo with free champagne


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    #29
    Duiske
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    The Sidewards Man wrote: »
    If you had a free council house quiet easily I imagine.

    Not a single person in this country has a "free" council house.


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    #30
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    A single man/woman, no children and 25+, gets 9,917 per year (including Xmas bonus). This proposal would be 9,600 per year.
    There would be no rent allowance though. Higher cost of living in Finland too, as far as I know.


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    #31
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Its tough but sometimes you just have to. It's what we got for the 2 of us until I started getting paid 1000.

    You just have to get hard.


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