Finland to give a basic income of €800 a month

jca

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

The key is to have minimum 5 kids, average rent is €20 per week then

Did I get the wink right

Who told you that?

mickdw

Am I right in thinking that if they are giving this flat rate payment to everyone, they will basically wipe out tax credits / tax free allowance meaning it will be worthless to working people while still propping up the unemployed.

The Sidewards Man

Duiske wrote: »

Not a single person in this country has a "free" council house.

€20 a week is a huge mortgage alright :rolleyes:

pablo128

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

I only have second hand info, so tell.

I would have to get a real world figure tomorrow, but I'll give you a link. https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiT3bnWyMjJAhVEPxQKHcpnDsIQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dublincity.ie%2Fmain-menu-services-housing%2Frent-assessment&usg=AFQjCNGEMNbtL0HkJivrmt3qEq1jwyAa3A

Where the Principal Earner is regarded as a couple it is 15% of the weekly assessable income over €64.00. If a spouse/partner however has a weekly income over €32.00 the couple allowance does not apply

A dependent child is classified as a person who is 18 years or under. Where a person is attending a full time course of education it is under 22 years. In the case of a person who is 22-24 years and attending a full time course of education a submission must be made in this regard for them to also be considered as such. An amount of €1.00 per week for each dependent child is deducted from the rent payable.

Duiske

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

€20 a week is a huge mortgage alright :rolleyes:

So what you said about free council houses. You made that up ? Oh, and your €20pw rent is wrong as well.

The Sidewards Man

Interweb links proving me wrong Lol, you cant get blood from a stone.

baldshin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?

There are far more people than you can imagine doing it, myself included. I'm actually financially less well off since I got a part time job as I'll often get 4 short shifts a week meaning no part time dole. Not possible with a family or living in Dublin I'd imagine though.

Whenever I hear mention of the average wages in Ireland I can only imagine what that would be like, I wouldn't know what to do with all the money!

XR3i

finland is a depressive dump, even the worst off refugees refuse to go there

topmanamillion

Surely the cost of living will just rocket.

The Sidewards Man

Duiske wrote: »

So what you said about free council houses. You made that up ? Oh, and your €20pw rent is wrong as well.

True if you have 7 children it can be as low as €10 per week, my apologies.

shineon23

€188X4weeks= €752 ?

not sure what daily rates would convert to for a 30/31 days month though.

wes

With increased automation taking jobs from Humans, this sort of thing will be imho essential.

Right now, I am not sure it is feasible in Ireland, but in the future it will be something that will have to be implemented to avoid a dystopia, where there are simple not enough jobs to go round, and the majority live in poverty.

XR3i

finland is a fuccking shiithole duump

with no redeeming features

Bongalongherb

I think it's a great idea. It will get rid of the stigma forwarded and attached to a person that has unfortunately lost their job and seeks social welfare of which the stigma will be eliminated. Also, the taxpayer will save a lot as well because the DSP will be shut-down country-wide in regards to savings and there will be one main office that distributes the basic living income. No more paying high wages for thousands of public servants as in the way the DSP works now across the country, there will be big savings.

At the moment we are already a bit similar to this new basic living income idea because 'the government - DSP' out of taxpaying citizens monies already pay the equivalent of such a scheme and more at this current state. It's a great idea I think, and a good ethical one as well. It would be about time we had change regarding this old 70's institution of social welfare. It's time to move forward.

Doc

Just tried to do a quick workout of what this would cost looking at the figure of €800 a month to be paid to everyone from the age of 18 and up in Ireland.

I came up with a figure of approximately €30.745 billion

(based on the voters register numbers).

Nichard Dixon

Doc wrote: »

Just tried to do a quick workout of what this would cost looking at the figure of €800 a month to be paid to everyone from the age of 18 and up in Ireland.

I came up with a figure of approximately €30.745 billion

(based on the voters register numbers).

The present transfer amount to more than €20 billion, you can add in student grants, tax credits and so to that figure to get the current expenditure.

suicide_circus

Duiske wrote: »

Not a single person in this country has a "free" council house.

Ah right, so they're paying market rates then? Why would anyone bother with a council housing list so.

Guy:Incognito

Duiske wrote: »

Not a single person in this country has a "free" council house.

Does giving someone money (dole) then taking a bit of it back as rent really count as them paying for it?

Guy:Incognito

shineon23 wrote: »

€188X4weeks= €752 ?

not sure what daily rates would convert to for a 30/31 days month though.

52 / 12 is 4.33 weeks a months. Taking the lowest figure of €188 thats 4 x 188 + 62.60 . So €814.50

steddyeddy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I'm a student who can't find work, I live on less than 200 a week

Easily. When I was a student I lived on 25 a week. Great idea Finland.

Nichard Dixon

If you had this in Ireland half the world would be collecting it while in Australia and the US.

suicide_circus

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does giving someone money (dole) then taking a bit of it back as rent really count as them paying for it?

Of course not. No one could possibly argue that heavily subsidised rents paid for using free money collected weekly at the post office does not constitute free accomdation, that would be extremely disingenuous.

I've no problem with the state providing accomdation btw... In fact they should do it more often and taxes should be increased IMO but let's not kid ourselves by suggesting people don't get free houses in Ireland.

Dohnjoe

I see a few potential problems here..

What's to stop Finns from going to cheap places like Thailand and living like kings?

If everyone, including those in full time work, are going to start getting 800 euros more - well that's a very large and sudden jump in disposable income, prices are certain to increase

I know a few people who are happy to live on the dole (they are living at home), surely this will just encourage a generation of people to do the same

Also, I'd imagine a decent amount of the workforce will opt to start doing part-time work, especially those in more menial jobs, e.g factory workers

nevertheless will be an interesting experiment if it passes

Dr Strange

Dohnjoe wrote: »

...
What's to stop Finns from going to cheap places like Thailand and living like kings?
....

They'd live like kuninkaat.

imitation

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

The present transfer amount to more than €20 billion, you can add in student grants, tax credits and so to that figure to get the current expenditure.

I dont recall 9k in Tax credits on my pay slip last time I checked, as its about 1.5k per person at the moment, it seems like a lot of extra money for 90% of the work force. I dont think its unworkable but i would be very interested to see the side effects.

Will 200 quid a week in everybodys pocket cause an economic boom or just Norwegian style cpi inflation?

Will it damage competion?

Would zero hour contracts reign supreme ?

Where does the short fall come from, the higher tax bracket? Vat? Corperate tax?

homerjay2005

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A single man/woman, no children and 25+, gets 9,917 per year (including Xmas bonus). This proposal would be 9,600 per year.

There are also already provisions for people to work part-time and earn extra under certain education schemes.

The problem is there are some "families" out there who the government are giving 25-40k a year when everything is included.

People constantly go on about the cash they are getting directly as being "small" but they ignore the fact that they get lots of free stuff like medical and housing which every worker needs to pay for

Sh1tbag OToole

Basic income is the only way forward in a world filled with robot overlords

Annasopra

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How could anyone live on 800 quid a month?

Thats what you get on the dole. You know the one that a lot of AHers call extremely generous.

suicide_circus

All workers should just be paid in a thin watery gruel so as not to detract from the profit margins of their employers.

asherbassad

Doc wrote: »

Finland plans to give every citizen a basic income of 800 euros a month.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/12/06/comment-finland-plans-give-every-citizen-basic-income-800-euros-month

The proposals for a national basic income are intended to simplify the social security system and encourage more unemployed people to take on temporary work.

Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income.

Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments.

Switzerland is also considering introducing a national basic income. In September the Swiss parliament voted, with a large majority, for a motion calling on the Swiss people to reject the Popular Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income. However, a nationwide referendum on the issue is slated for 2016 and, according to a recent online poll, 49% of the Swiss would currently vote in favour of its introduction.

Think this could work in Ireland?

I think its a very good idea.

It's hard to know. Wouldn't prices just rise and make it meaningless?