Planning app lodged for Pelletstown Station

ongarboy · 24-07-2014 9:23am #1

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0182.htm

I see a planning application has been lodged to An Bord Pleanala for a new train station at Pelletstown. I'm fairly certain that is between Ashtown and Broombridge on the Maynooth line. I wonder is there a real need for another station on that line with Ashtown so near?

Dravokivich · 24-07-2014 10:36am

I know people who use Ashtown over Broombridge itself. So if there's big enough demand, it could be those who it's for.

Scratch that, could it not be for when the line through pheonix park?

LXFlyer · 24-07-2014 10:51am

The line through the Phoenix Park tunnel has nothing to do with the Maynooth line.

Pelletstown is being built to serve the large number of apartments on the north side of the Royal Canal at or near the Ratoath Road.

Dravokivich · 24-07-2014 11:13am

lxflyer wrote: »

The line through the Phoenix Park tunnel has nothing to do with the Maynooth line.

Pelletstown is being built to serve the large number of apartments on the north side of the Royal Canal at or near the Ratoath Road.

The Planning application link in the OP said nothing about what it's intentions are.

Dammit, didn't realise the header was an address.

Tube · 24-07-2014 12:02pm

Going to make an already slow service even slower.

europhile · 24-07-2014 1:15pm

Tube wrote: »

Going to make an already slow service even slower.

If there were no stops at all, the train would get into town in no time.

cython · 24-07-2014 1:21pm

Seems utterly pointless to me, and negates virtually any benefit that trains (barring the minority of services which run non-stop between Maynooth and Connolly) might get out of the eventual closure of the LC on the Ratoath road by putting a stop practically beside it.

Looking on Google maps, Broombridge to Ashtown is a 2.3km walk along the canal, so most of these apts are little more than 1km from a train station (and almost certainly within 1.5km). Potentially this might be worthwhile if the line was electrified and the rolling stock had the acceleration abilities of the DART, but as long as it is operated by DMUs (which seems like it will be the case for some time unless gold or oil is struck in building this station!), this is only going to impact negatively on the majority of users.

Victor · 24-07-2014 1:43pm

Its about more than just Royal Canal Park.

It connects Royal Canal Park to route 122

Allows connection from Ashington to Dublin Industrial Estate - currently a 45 minute, 4 km walk to move 100 metres. https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3752855,-6.3068597/53.3739678,-6.3083471/@53.3721417,-6.3118271,15z/data=!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e2

Gives Ashington a train station.

Removes delays at the exit to Ashington.

n97 mini · 24-07-2014 1:52pm

Victor wrote: »

Its about more than just Royal Canal Park.

It connects Royal Canal Park to route 122

Allows connection from Ashington to Dublin Industrial Estate - currently a 45 minute, 4 km walk to move 100 metres. https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3752855,-6.3068597/53.3739678,-6.3083471/@53.3721417,-6.3118271,15z/data=!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e2

Gives Ashington a train station.

Removes delays at the exit to Ashington.

Only one of those points actually requires a train station. If they need a bridge they should build a bridge instead.

NRPW and Broombridge already have virtually non existent patronage. Building another potentially unneeded station will only further inconvenience the vast majority of users of the line.

LXFlyer · 24-07-2014 1:57pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Only one of those points actually requires a train station. If they need a bridge they should build a bridge instead.

NRPW and Broombridge already have virtually non existent patronage. Building another potentially unneeded station will only further inconvenience the vast majority of users of the line.

There is a huge difference between Navan Road Parkway and Pelletstown.

The latter is beside large amounts of housing.

n97 mini · 24-07-2014 2:06pm

Ok, now that we've acknowledge NRPW is a problem, can we close it at the same time as Pelletstown is opened!

Secondly if the service isn't up to scratch people won't use it, as they already have very good Dublin Bus alternatives. This will provide the people around with an hourly, moderately slow service. Additionally the service is very congested in the mornings. Ashtown station is comparatively quiet because many people opt for the much more frequent, less congested (at peak), and often more suitable bus services. Indeed I remember a time when some services didn't bother stopping at Broombridge or Ashtown at all.

L1011 · 24-07-2014 4:02pm

Once the line is electrified the issue of the number of stops will be heavily reduced due to the improved acceleration - but the electrification should be first; not more stops.

monument · 24-07-2014 4:31pm

Build a station at Phibsboro now and then the minister may be more pushed to push Dart Underground.

AlekSmart · 24-07-2014 5:27pm

monument wrote: »

Build a station at Phibsboro now and then the minister may be more pushed to push Dart Underground.

Well the Minister can step outside his Constituency Office and see for himself......http://paschaldonohoe.ie/contact/

344 North Circular Road
Phibsborough
Dublin 7 (near St. Peter’s Church)

monument · 24-07-2014 5:38pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well the Minister can step outside his Constituency Office and see for himself......http://paschaldonohoe.ie/contact/

That was my point!

...but it is a 5-10mim walk to the railway line...

n97 mini · 24-07-2014 5:51pm

MYOB wrote: »

Once the line is electrified

Surely you mean if? I first heard of the Maynooth line being electrified in 1977.

L1011 · 24-07-2014 10:38pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Surely you mean if? I first heard of the Maynooth line being electrified in 1977.

When you're suggesting postponing something till after electrification, either works about as well!

mrsdewinter · 25-07-2014 9:35am

I live near the proposed Pelletstown station and I think it's long overdue.
Soz to all ye peeps who apparently can't stand seeing access to public transport being extended to all.

cython · 25-07-2014 9:49pm

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I live near the proposed Pelletstown station and I think it's long overdue.
Soz to all ye peeps who apparently can't stand seeing access to public transport being extended to all.

Wow, talk about hyperbolae. I think most of us who are questioning the sensibilities of this move have no issue with transport being extended to all, but the distance between the stations adjacent to the proposed site is approx the same as that between Clonsilla and Coolmine, and living in that area I would see little point in adding a station at Porterstown, for example, especially with the current rolling stock on the line.

Now as has been highlighted, there are certain accesses which are convoluted at present in the vicinity of Ashtown/Pelletstown, but these could be massively alleviated with comparatively minor infrastructure at a fraction of the cost (both short and long-term) of adding a new station on the line in the near future. Everyone would like a train station on their doorstep, but to accommodate that we might as well build travelators in and out of town....

While I am opposed to the current bastardisation of the DMU 29000 stock on intercity routes, I also think that hops of approx 1km between stations are a bit too short for them to realistically serve too - this is DART type routing, without the DART infrastructure.

Pete_Cavan · 25-07-2015 2:51pm

Has anyone heard anything more about this proposed station?

Ballymore Estates seem to be starting development at Royal Canal Park, they have permission for 152 houses, 91 apartments and a supermarket. I see from the planning application that they have to pay €2,704,345.30 to DCC "as a contribution towards expenditure that was and/ or is proposed to be incurred by the Planning Authority in respect of public infrastructure and facilities benefiting development in the administrative area of the Authority", is there any mechanism for some of this to go to IR for the station or does it get thrown into the DCC blackhole?

Ballymore also received planning for another 71 houses on a site a couple of hundred metres further west. In 2013, Castlethorn Construction received planning for 208 dwellings adjacent to that site. Basically, the population in the vicinity of the proposed station is likely to increase significantly over the next few years, in addition to a large population already south of the canal. Is it likely IR will proceed with the station which they have planning permission for any time soon? A fraction of these development contributions would cover the cost of the station.

mrsdewinter · 25-07-2015 5:32pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything more about this proposed station?

Ballymore Estates seem to be starting development at Royal Canal Park, they have permission for 152 houses, 91 apartments and a supermarket. I see from the planning application that they have to pay €2,704,345.30 to DCC "as a contribution towards expenditure that was and/ or is proposed to be incurred by the Planning Authority in respect of public infrastructure and facilities benefiting development in the administrative area of the Authority", is there any mechanism for some of this to go to IR for the station or does it get thrown into the DCC blackhole?

Ballymore also received planning for another 71 houses on a site a couple of hundred metres further west. In 2013, Castlethorn Construction received planning for 208 dwellings adjacent to that site. Basically, the population in the vicinity of the proposed station is likely to increase significantly over the next few years, in addition to a large population already south of the canal. Is it likely IR will proceed with the station which they have planning permission for any time soon? A fraction of these development contributions would cover the cost of the station.

The ramping-up of site works in recent weeks has piqued my interest too. Afaik, the ball is in Irish Rail's court. Is it worth noting that Leo's latest newsletter made *no mention* of Pelletstown train station?

drouse · 14-01-2016 12:21am

Follow @rcpca1 or Royal Canal Park Community Association on FB for updates on developments in Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park.

cgcsb · 14-01-2016 10:38am

Electrification to Maynooth, close all the remaining level crossings and only then new stations starting with Phibsboro. Then high density development of apartments along the line between Broombridge and Castleknock with new streets laid out in the area between Ratoath road and the M50. Some organisation please, Dublin is growing.

Jem72 · 15-01-2016 9:28am

In the interim, particularly after BXD opens, it would be well worth re-organising the peak timetable such that Maynooth trains run non-stop between Clonsilla and Broombridge and the M3 parkway trains could run the inner stops.

At least do this for the two Longford trains which would allow them to be operated by 3 or 4 car 22Ks. After BXD opens, everything (including Sligo trains) should be stopping at Broombridge.

Dravokivich · 15-01-2016 12:56pm

Jem72 wrote: »

In the interim, particularly after BXD opens, it would be well worth re-organising the peak timetable such that Maynooth trains run non-stop between Clonsilla and Broombridge and the M3 parkway trains could run the inner stops.

At least do this for the two Longford trains which would allow them to be operated by 3 or 4 car 22Ks. After BXD opens, everything (including Sligo trains) should be stopping at Broombridge.

A lot of people on those stops you want to skip and push to the M3 parkway trains tend to get off at Drumcondra and Pearse.

Why are you forcing them into multi-modal commuting?

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 1:00pm

Jem72 wrote: »

In the interim, particularly after BXD opens, it would be well worth re-organising the peak timetable such that Maynooth trains run non-stop between Clonsilla and Broombridge and the M3 parkway trains could run the inner stops.

At least do this for the two Longford trains which would allow them to be operated by 3 or 4 car 22Ks. After BXD opens, everything (including Sligo trains) should be stopping at Broombridge.

Given that the Maynooth and M3 trains operate to completely different stations (Maynooth to Connolly, Pearse or Bray; M3 Parkway to Docklands), that won't be happening. You cannot simply remove services from stations like that.

Unless rolling stock that is currently in storage is returned (2700s), you are unlikely to see 22k sets returning to the Longford trains.

Given that rail passengers switching to LUAS will have to pay a second fare or get a rail/LUAS combined period pass if they want to use LUAS, I do wonder how great the numbers switching between the two services will be at Broombridge. The business case for the LUAS extension did not envisage a large number of transfers.

Carawaystick · 15-01-2016 3:58pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that rail passengers switching to LUAS will have to pay a second fare or get a rail/LUAS combined period pass if they want to use LUAS, I do wonder how great the numbers switching between the two services will be at Broombridge. The business case for the LUAS extension did not envisage a large number of transfers.

Do you think the luas addon fare reducing will change that? For D15-Sandyford commutes?
It used to be about 40%of the rail ticket before, when it was only about 130 extra for the DB addon. Where they're both the same addon now.

n97 mini · 15-01-2016 4:02pm

I would welcome some of the peak morning and evening Maynooth services running non-stop (or close to it) from Clonsilla. Not every train needs to stop at every station. Currently only one train does this, the 18.55 ex Maynooth to Connolly.

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 4:17pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Do you think the luas addon fare reducing will change that? For D15-Sandyford commutes?
It used to be about 40%of the rail ticket before, when it was only about 130 extra for the DB addon. Where they're both the same addon now.

As usual in these discussions you seem to focus on people who would represent a minority of users in terms of overall passenger numbers on the rail line.

I'm sure that someone going to Sandyford will change at Broombridge, but that won't be the vast majority of users.

The majority work in the city centre and unless they don't like a walk, I'm not sure most people will want to pay more money instead of walking.

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 4:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I would welcome some of the peak morning and evening Maynooth services running non-stop (or close to it) from Clonsilla. Not every train needs to stop at every station. Currently only one train does this, the 18.55 ex Maynooth to Connolly.

I'm sure would, living beyond Clonsilla, but that's exceptionally narrow minded.

Why should passengers from stations between Clonsilla and Broombridge have a service level reduction just to please you?

They are as entitled to direct trains to Connolly or Pearse as you are.

Carawaystick · 15-01-2016 4:32pm

lxflyer wrote: »

As usual in these discussions you seem to focus on people who would represent a minority of users in terms of overall passenger numbers on the rail line.

I'm sure that someone going to Sandyford will change at Broombridge, but that won't be the vast majority of users.

The majority work in the city centre and unless they don't like a walk, I'm not sure most people will want to pay more money instead of walking.

Ah you've misunderstood me here.
Previously the Luas addon was many more times more expensive than a Dublin bus addon, making it hugely unattractive
Now its the same price as a DB addon.

My point was that when the rpa set out their design case, switching may not have been in their mind as much, given the high cost, whereas now with a lower annual ticket cost, and some fare integration, there will be likely higher switching modes at Broombridge, than the rpa originally planned for.

Planning app lodged for Pelletstown Station

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