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    #92
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Up at neighbours there. He has a lim cow 10days over incalf to a lime.
    Put my hand in her for him. Calf seems perfect. Will she hold much longer?


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    #93
    jj92
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭jj92


    I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.


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    #94
    I said
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭I said


    jj92 wrote: »
    I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.

    If you sent a dozen at that price and got €4 a kg for 11 and €3.35 for one by my reckoning you got €3.95 average for the twelve.factories ya would never be up to them.


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    #95
    Kovu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Up at neighbours there. He has a lim cow 10days over incalf to a lime.
    Put my hand in her for him. Calf seems perfect. Will she hold much longer?

    Lim to a lim normally holds close to 3 weeks here. But I noted that 2 flightier lims will always calve a lot earlier- around 10 days - 2 weeks over their time.

    I wouldn't be too worried anyway, the handling may make her come sooner.


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    #96
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    jj92 wrote: »
    I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.

    He should be made give you the €4/kg...


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    #97
    jj92
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭jj92


    I said wrote: »
    If you sent a dozen at that price and got €4 a kg for 11 and €3.35 for one by my reckoning you got €3.95 average for the twelve.factories ya would never be up to them.

    Sorry but only 2 of the lot were Hereford, the rest were overage Fr steers etc. with different prices agreed. It's about €220 euro less in the cheque, which is serious. If I'd known that "flat rate" meant "the price agreed but..." I may not have agreed the price.


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    #98
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭mf240


    Flat means flat. You should of gotten 4 euros for both.

    But good luck getting it out of them.


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    #99
    I said
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭I said


    jj92 wrote: »
    Sorry but only 2 of the lot were Hereford, the rest were overage Fr steers etc. with different prices agreed. It's about €220 euro less in the cheque, which is serious. If I'd known that "flat rate" meant "the price agreed but..." I may not have agreed the price.

    Well then flat rate is what I would mean to be price agreed which in your case is €4 as rangler has stated he should be made pay it


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    #100
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    If you agreed a flat rate for the two it should be paid on the two. If one graded R would you have got extra I doubt it. The other thing the P price for dropping a grade was severe. I think they were looking for a reason to reduce the price. I be telling him to stump up however you may have a battle on your hands.


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    #101
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Don't let him darken your door again either


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    #102
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I think it's gas that lads have no meas on selling factory fit cattle live through the ring. Would it not cut out a lot of crap like this? You are at the mercy of the factory honouring what was said over the phone. Unless you had a recording of the conversation, is it not a case of your word against theirs?


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    #103
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

    I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

    Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

    Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

    Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

    Opinions on this?


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    #104
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,485 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Muckit wrote: »
    The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

    I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

    Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

    Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

    Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

    Opinions on this?

    Absolutely spot on.. What they are promoting is further forcing of cattle to where THEY want, its not as though lots of shoppers turned up in the supermarket and said they only want cattle under X age, or of X carcass weight in their shopping..
    If animals were let on naturally and when killed they were hung correctly for 28/30 days they would make superior beef to much of what is being churned out at the moment.. However, hanging for 30 days costs more so it aint going to happen !


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    #105
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    Muckit wrote: »
    The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

    I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

    Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

    Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

    Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

    Opinions on this?

    I have no figures at all but I reckon it would be worthwhile letting them get a bit older without having to pump them full of meal . They all dont have to have steaks that fit into a plastic package


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    #106
    jj92
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭jj92


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    If you agreed a flat rate for the two it should be paid on the two. If one graded R would you have got extra I doubt it. The other thing the P price for dropping a grade was severe. I think they were looking for a reason to reduce the price. I be telling him to stump up however you may have a battle on your hands.

    Good point re. what would happen if the were grading higher. The agents reasoning for the cut was that the factories just don't pay the bonuses etc. for the Herefords on P grades and basically I should have known. To me flat rate was the price agreed as simple as that. It looks from here that others have the same opinion on flat rate, I'll let you know how I get on with him. He's actually grand to deal with, I don't want to have a falling out or anything but money is money.


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    #107
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    jj92 wrote: »
    Good point re. what would happen if the were grading higher. The agents reasoning for the cut was that the factories just don't pay the bonuses etc. for the Herefords on P grades and basically I should have known. To me flat rate was the price agreed as simple as that. It looks from here that others have the same opinion on flat rate, I'll let you know how I get on with him. He's actually grand to deal with, I don't want to have a falling out or anything but money is money.

    A farmers only friend is his pocket


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    #108
    larrymiller
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    A farmers only friend is his pocket

    And the dog


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    #109
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    larrymiller wrote: »
    And the dog

    .......... baler twine and pallets.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #110
    larrymiller
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    greysides wrote: »
    .......... baler twine and pallets.

    Pen knife and fence tester..


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    #111
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    larrymiller wrote: »
    Pen knife and fence tester..

    The wife is always integral to any farming venture.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #112
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    greysides wrote: »
    The wife is always integral to any farming venture.
    now now, dont be taking the thread off topic, tut tut


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    #113
    larrymiller
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    Back in track so.. Anyone use beef minerals buckets?
    Last years weanings went a bit brown gave buckets and they went black again(guessing it was copper)
    Same thing this year but haven't seen much improvement yet


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    #114
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    whelan2 wrote: »
    now now, dont be taking the thread off topic, tut tut

    What are ye good for whelan...come on defend yourselfs


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    #115
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Reggie. wrote: »
    What are ye good for whelan...come on defend yourselfs
    sure we're great at cooking the dinner, cleaning, doing the washing and being there for our other halves every need.:rolleyes:


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    #116
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    whelan2 wrote: »
    sure we're great at cooking the dinner, cleaning, doing the washing at being there for our other halves every need.

    :D well played.


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    #117
    GrandSoftDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 743 ✭✭✭GrandSoftDay


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    The trick with injecting cattle is to inject on far side of body. This way they kick away from you. GSD may be talking about suckler bred cattle ans specificly about fluke curing/prevention. The dosing hooks are not they are all clapped up to be, some cattle remember them and it can nearly be as time consuming as dosing invidually at head gate.

    I dunno Pudsey, find it very hard to get cattle to stick their head out the gate at times. If I'm trying to dose a stubborn one I'll just catch her by hand. Always inject on the far side alright . When we are castrating we put a cow in front and fill the crush behind her and then let them back as we do them. They stay a lot quiter when there's another beast in front of them but everyone has a different way of working.


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    #118
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Muckit wrote: »
    The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

    I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

    Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

    Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

    Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

    Opinions on this?

    Great post, the millers are certainly happy with the current focus

    It's ridiculous really


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    #119
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    GrandSoftDay wrote: »
    When we are castrating we put a cow in front and fill the crush behind her and then let them back as we do them. They stay a lot quiter when there's another beast in front of them but everyone has a different way of working.


    Do that myself. Works very well.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #120
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    greysides wrote: »
    Do that myself. Works very well.

    Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg


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    #121
    larrymiller
    Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    moy83 wrote: »
    Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

    Straight in I go.
    Wouldn't fancy doing big suckler ones though


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