Beef General Thread

Muckit · 20-07-2014 1:11pm

I think it's gas that lads have no meas on selling factory fit cattle live through the ring. Would it not cut out a lot of crap like this? You are at the mercy of the factory honouring what was said over the phone. Unless you had a recording of the conversation, is it not a case of your word against theirs?

Muckit · 20-07-2014 1:25pm

The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

Opinions on this?

_Brian · 20-07-2014 1:41pm

Muckit wrote: »

The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

Opinions on this?

Absolutely spot on.. What they are promoting is further forcing of cattle to where THEY want, its not as though lots of shoppers turned up in the supermarket and said they only want cattle under X age, or of X carcass weight in their shopping..
If animals were let on naturally and when killed they were hung correctly for 28/30 days they would make superior beef to much of what is being churned out at the moment.. However, hanging for 30 days costs more so it aint going to happen !

moy83 · 20-07-2014 1:45pm

Muckit wrote: »

The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

Opinions on this?

I have no figures at all but I reckon it would be worthwhile letting them get a bit older without having to pump them full of meal . They all dont have to have steaks that fit into a plastic package

jj92 · 20-07-2014 2:04pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you agreed a flat rate for the two it should be paid on the two. If one graded R would you have got extra I doubt it. The other thing the P price for dropping a grade was severe. I think they were looking for a reason to reduce the price. I be telling him to stump up however you may have a battle on your hands.

Good point re. what would happen if the were grading higher. The agents reasoning for the cut was that the factories just don't pay the bonuses etc. for the Herefords on P grades and basically I should have known. To me flat rate was the price agreed as simple as that. It looks from here that others have the same opinion on flat rate, I'll let you know how I get on with him. He's actually grand to deal with, I don't want to have a falling out or anything but money is money.

Farmer Pudsey · 20-07-2014 2:08pm

jj92 wrote: »

Good point re. what would happen if the were grading higher. The agents reasoning for the cut was that the factories just don't pay the bonuses etc. for the Herefords on P grades and basically I should have known. To me flat rate was the price agreed as simple as that. It looks from here that others have the same opinion on flat rate, I'll let you know how I get on with him. He's actually grand to deal with, I don't want to have a falling out or anything but money is money.

A farmers only friend is his pocket

larrymiller · 20-07-2014 2:19pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A farmers only friend is his pocket

And the dog

greysides · 20-07-2014 2:34pm

larrymiller wrote: »

And the dog

.......... baler twine and pallets.

larrymiller · 20-07-2014 2:38pm

greysides wrote: »

.......... baler twine and pallets.

Pen knife and fence tester..

greysides · 20-07-2014 2:48pm

larrymiller wrote: »

Pen knife and fence tester..

The wife is always integral to any farming venture.

whelan2 · 20-07-2014 2:53pm

greysides wrote: »

The wife is always integral to any farming venture.

now now, dont be taking the thread off topic, tut tut

larrymiller · 20-07-2014 2:56pm

Back in track so.. Anyone use beef minerals buckets?
Last years weanings went a bit brown gave buckets and they went black again(guessing it was copper)
Same thing this year but haven't seen much improvement yet

Reggie. · 20-07-2014 3:00pm

whelan2 wrote: »

now now, dont be taking the thread off topic, tut tut

What are ye good for whelan...come on defend yourselfs

whelan2 · 20-07-2014 3:05pm

Reggie. wrote: »

What are ye good for whelan...come on defend yourselfs

sure we're great at cooking the dinner, cleaning, doing the washing and being there for our other halves every need.:rolleyes:

Reggie. · 20-07-2014 3:06pm

whelan2 wrote: »

sure we're great at cooking the dinner, cleaning, doing the washing at being there for our other halves every need.

well played.

GrandSoftDay · 20-07-2014 3:42pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The trick with injecting cattle is to inject on far side of body. This way they kick away from you. GSD may be talking about suckler bred cattle ans specificly about fluke curing/prevention. The dosing hooks are not they are all clapped up to be, some cattle remember them and it can nearly be as time consuming as dosing invidually at head gate.

I dunno Pudsey, find it very hard to get cattle to stick their head out the gate at times. If I'm trying to dose a stubborn one I'll just catch her by hand. Always inject on the far side alright . When we are castrating we put a cow in front and fill the crush behind her and then let them back as we do them. They stay a lot quiter when there's another beast in front of them but everyone has a different way of working.

Panch18 · 20-07-2014 3:59pm

Muckit wrote: »

The journal always seem to promote farmers that kill cattle at young ages through their beef case study articles.

I could never get my head around this. Bulls perhaps, they are good converters of meal but you will have a lot of money tied up in a meal bin.

Heifers. ..?? In this week's edition they state that it takes 3 times more energy to lay down fat compared to muscle. So how hard is going to be to get young cattle that are still growing into correct FS??

Finishing earlier will also mean more cattle turnover and so more expense and time spent in the mart.

Is it not more cost effective to let cattle grow on and put on fat naturally as they reach their full mature weight?

Opinions on this?

Great post, the millers are certainly happy with the current focus

It's ridiculous really

greysides · 20-07-2014 4:01pm

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

When we are castrating we put a cow in front and fill the crush behind her and then let them back as we do them. They stay a lot quiter when there's another beast in front of them but everyone has a different way of working.

Do that myself. Works very well.

moy83 · 20-07-2014 4:20pm

greysides wrote: »

Do that myself. Works very well.

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

larrymiller · 20-07-2014 4:22pm

moy83 wrote: »

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

Straight in I go.
Wouldn't fancy doing big suckler ones though

GrandSoftDay · 20-07-2014 4:37pm

moy83 wrote: »

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

Good man on the tail, the aul fella has done hundreds if not thousands over his lifetime and he said the only time he ever got a kick was from the one at the front of the crush hence putting a cow in first!

Brown Podzol · 20-07-2014 5:10pm

greysides wrote: »

The wife is always integral to any farming venture.

Hmmmm Are diamonds not a woman's best friend?

greysides · 20-07-2014 6:12pm

moy83 wrote: »

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

A good man on the tail and try to avoid going near their heads, let them push into another animal. Helps keep them from moving sideways and keeps them calm.

A small bit a sedative is a boon for the job. Have them yarded and settled before going near them and deal with them in a calm quiet manner.

just do it · 20-07-2014 8:37pm

_Brian wrote: »

HOw do lads work grass/ paddock rotation.. How often to fresh grass..

We're not heavily stocked but try and move yearlings to fresh grass every 5-7 days..

As short as daily depending on SR of group.

just do it · 20-07-2014 8:41pm

I said wrote: »

Must invest in a head scoop I use pouron the whole time.will have to change strategy.

Save yourself some money. Some rope and a 5 ft pole will do the same job.

mayota · 20-07-2014 10:15pm

moy83 wrote: »

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

We put a small square bale behind them and as ye say a good man on the tail.

whelan2 · 20-07-2014 10:18pm

moy83 wrote: »

Do you restrain them at all that way ? I don't think I would be brave enough to go in there without tying up a leg

does that not add to the stress on man and beast?

Willfarman · 20-07-2014 10:20pm

A head halter tied up tight is a good help to knock some of the steam out of mad continental types.

moy83 · 20-07-2014 10:24pm

whelan2 wrote: »

does that not add to the stress on man and beast?

You might be right about stressing the beast but it sure stresses me less knowing his leg is tied up to the bar

mf240 · 20-07-2014 10:56pm

just do it wrote: »

a 5 ft pole will do the same job.

Think that might be racist:D:D

blue5000 · 20-07-2014 11:01pm

mf240 wrote: »

Think that might be racist:D:D

You wouldn't have to pay a head scoop every week

TUBBY · 20-07-2014 11:07pm

Savage good week promised and the Galway races. Small kills in factories this week and small marts too i would imagine.

any of ye lads going to the marts - what are numbers like of strong stores.

exercise is the antidote · 20-07-2014 11:25pm

TUBBY wrote: »

Savage good week promised and the Galway races. Small kills in factories this week and small marts too i would imagine.

any of ye lads going to the marts - what are numbers like of strong stores.

Have a few to go this week..

I said · 21-07-2014 8:39am

TUBBY wrote: »

Savage good week promised and the Galway races. Small kills in factories this week and small marts too i would imagine.

any of ye lads going to the marts - what are numbers like of strong stores.

Correct fcuk all goes on during race week

Charliebull · 21-07-2014 10:44am

lads is there any few pound in buying in a few weanlings in april and running until november, have a 10 acre out farm ideal for the job, newly reseeded as well

its either that or a few whisper it.............sheep

Toplink · 21-07-2014 11:30am

Charliebull wrote: »

lads is there any few pound in buying in a few weanlings in april and running until november, have a 10 acre out farm ideal for the job, newly reseeded as well

its either that or a few whisper it.............sheep

Risky business but i'll probably be doing the same next years... thought my land is drier so will be buying in Feb and selling in November.

Think you have to keep them for 8 months to be able to claim the grants?

dharn · 21-07-2014 11:33am

Every year is different, generally you have summer grazers who make cattle dear in spring and a glut selling in sept which makes them cheap but last year factory agents were buying cattle in sept for finishing and good prices could be got

blue5000 · 21-07-2014 11:43am

Charliebull, weight gain is key, if they are too light to be finished the following winter when you go to sell them, there is not as many buyers, they'd need to be up around 500kg for finishers to be interested. Less than that and they are taking up (expensive) feed and housing as a store.

Farmer Pudsey · 21-07-2014 11:54am

Charliebull wrote: »

lads is there any few pound in buying in a few weanlings in april and running until november, have a 10 acre out farm ideal for the job, newly reseeded as well

its either that or a few whisper it.............sheep

For the last 2-3 years yes cattle have being cheaper in the spring than the autumn. However all markets go in circles. Hard to see how some lads will make money on some WH AA and contenintals bought last spring. Generally you need to be a good buyer and seller. No point in arriving in a mart to sell and it has being raining all week. I oftem wonder why some lads chase the last 15-20 kgs in the autumn. This can often leave farm slow to recover in spring.

My advice is try to buy in late feb/early march light cattle need less to eat this time of year. Q few bases of hay or straw and a few kgs of ration with limited grass will generally keep cattle going for a month. You have to be prepared to work to fork out part of a bale every day and throw a few nuts to them and move a fence. 10 cattle eating a bale every 5 days and 2kgs of ration will cost about 1.2/day if you buy hay while it is relative value at present. If you do not need it hay or straw can sit in a shed for 4-5 years.

Charliebull · 21-07-2014 12:15pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

For the last 2-3 years yes cattle have being cheaper in the spring than the autumn. However all markets go in circles. Hard to see how some lads will make money on some WH AA and contenintals bought last spring. Generally you need to be a good buyer and seller. No point in arriving in a mart to sell and it has being raining all week. I oftem wonder why some lads chase the last 15-20 kgs in the autumn. This can often leave farm slow to recover in spring.

My advice is try to buy in late feb/early march light cattle need less to eat this time of year. Q few bases of hay or straw and a few kgs of ration with limited grass will generally keep cattle going for a month. You have to be prepared to work to fork out part of a bale every day and throw a few nuts to them and move a fence. 10 cattle eating a bale every 5 days and 2kgs of ration will cost about 1.2/day if you buy hay while it is relative value at present. If you do not need it hay or straw can sit in a shed for 4-5 years.

feeding bit would not bother me as am feeding the cows anyway so an extra half hour makes fook all difference,

dont know if this particular plot would be dry enough for early spring february grazing, realistically its probably late march,

hay already there in shed,
ok blue so with the target weights in mind maybe a few heifers with a view to selling as maidens in the back end might be safer bet

Farmer Pudsey · 21-07-2014 1:03pm

Charliebull wrote: »

feeding bit would not bother me as am feeding the cows anyway so an extra half hour makes fook all difference,

dont know if this particular plot would be dry enough for early spring february grazing, realistically its probably late march,

hay already there in shed,
ok blue so with the target weights in mind maybe a few heifers with a view to selling as maidens in the back end might be safer bet

Heifers have the advantage of selling as maidens, incalf or feeding a bit to sell as forward stores or finished

dharn · 21-07-2014 1:14pm

Depends on where you are, over here in the west we have buyers from meath and buyers for horse stables buying in spring so seldom bargains to be got after end of march

Charliebull · 21-07-2014 2:12pm

dharn wrote: »

Depends on where you are, over here in the west we have buyers from meath and buyers for horse stables buying in spring so seldom bargains to be got after end of march

i know, id be in the same side as you

Genghis Cant · 21-07-2014 10:34pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Heifers have the advantage of selling as maidens, incalf or feeding a bit to sell as forward stores or finished

That's a point I was gonna make too. There's a lot of versatility with a heifer.
You've several options.
They're getting to be quite the commodity though!

blue5000 · 22-07-2014 3:17pm

Anyone reading the suckler articles in the journal? I thought the bit about Donegal cows being heavier and having most continental breeding was interesting. Limerick had only about 50% continental but had lighter carcase weights for cows.

Also somebody wrote in a letter about icbf % calf/cow figures being skewed by having empty cull cows grazing. I tend to do this too, graze culls the following summer instead of fattening them on meal and silage after drying off. I wonder which pays better, fatten off grass almost a year later or meal them and start fattening them in the shed as soon as you know they are empty?

I said · 22-07-2014 7:49pm

The minister of defence has spoken on the boycott of the QA by the ICSA.Farmers and processors should work together he is quoted as saying.I wonder to whose benefit?

moy83 · 22-07-2014 8:02pm

I said wrote: »

The minister of defence has spoken on the boycott of the QA by the ICSA.Farmers and processors should work together he is quoted as saying.I wonder to whose benefit?

I was just reading the front of the indo there and thinking the exact same thing .
I don't know what would happen if the scheme was boycotted . But sure aren't the factories not applying it to hapes of cattle anyhow for one reason or another and they still seem to be shifting the non QA beef :rolleyes:
I would like to see it boycotted for awhile if only to shake up Bord Bia to get more money for this green grass fed beef thats supposed to be so delicious in demand .

I said · 22-07-2014 8:47pm

I agree might just shake things up it's definitely not in finishers interests the way it stands at the moment.

_Brian · 22-07-2014 9:23pm

I said wrote: »

I agree might just shake things up it's definitely not in finishers interests the way it stands at the moment.

Not just finishers either... Its working against prices right down the line.

Farmer Pudsey · 22-07-2014 9:51pm

It is amazing that the Minister for the Fence could not say anything all spring long in favour of farmers but can now come out to try to save the processors. It was something I suggested on one of the beef threads a months back that as BQAS was no benefit we should arrange a boycott of it.

The factory's and ministers are fast off the mark, cattle that are getting less than 3.5/kg(cows, bulls and O- or less cattle) it is no benefit. These cattle will alaways find a market at that price so why should farmers jump through hoops to produce a product to a premium spec(as opposes to a premium product) and recieve no benefit.

Beef General Thread

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