Beef General Thread

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 4:15pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Your nearly half way there:pac:,

Anyway bit of self moderation, how are cattle thriving at grass this summer, any body weigh yet? Have a bunch of yearling heifers that were very slow to lose winter coats, and to my eye weren't thriving. Did a few bloods and low in Iodine, also some stomach worms present in the FEC. Started putting iodine in their water last week. Will dose them again this coming week.

What dose are you using blue,

blue5000 · 19-07-2014 4:21pm

Charliebull wrote: »

What dose are you using blue,

Cheapie ivermectin, injection.

micky mouse · 19-07-2014 5:03pm

simx wrote: »

Factory I deal with sometimes won't penalize if you don't have 70 days in your herd so long as in last herd for 70 days and it was a QA herd

yeah that's it.get away at 20/30 days something like that as long as previous owner qa.number of days also varies from factory to factory

Willfarman · 19-07-2014 5:11pm

Cattle are doing a great thrive this summer here. I see no honest hungry stores in the mart all year.

greysides · 19-07-2014 5:27pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Cheapie ivermectin, injection.

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

simx · 19-07-2014 5:46pm

micky mouse wrote: »

yeah that's it.get away at 20/30 days something like that as long as previous owner qa.number of days also varies from factory to factory

Yeah another factory I have went to want them in your herd 21 days if out of another QA herd, factory I'm killing in next week won't penalize so long as I'm in QA, don't matter about past owner in QA or not or how many days I have them, strange how one factory can differ towards the next

moy83 · 19-07-2014 5:50pm

greysides wrote: »

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

Whats the next step for doses if immunity to them starts happening ?

greysides · 19-07-2014 5:58pm

moy83 wrote: »

Whats the next step for doses if immunity to them starts happening ?

Switch family of dose for an individual.
Panic, for an industry and then combination doses (two or more ingredients targeting the same worms) as per Australia.

Farmer Pudsey · 19-07-2014 6:27pm

greysides wrote: »

I hear a few reports locally of less than satisfactory results from using cheap ivomecs. I say 'cheap' as most forms of it used are probably not the original, that's all. But it's making me wary of recommending them. They've been used so much, for so long, I'm getting worried.

There is absolutly no difference between generic medicines and sprays and branded products the same a human medicines. Biggest issue is under dosing. Even though generics are cheap you still get lads to mean to dose. Other issue is moving to new pasture after dosing. However this makes no difference with ivermectins as there is a two week gap.

Biggest issue with immunity is pourons as if it is wet or cattle are licking themselves adequate amount of pouron may not be going into the animal system

greysides · 19-07-2014 6:32pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

There is absolutely no difference between generic medicines and sprays and branded products the same a human medicines.

That might not always be the case. There's a lot in a medicine other than the active ingredient and these things can affect the overall result.

Anyhow, that wasn't the point of the post. Keep be aware that there may be problems coming with the over-use of the avermectin family.

_Brian · 19-07-2014 6:33pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Your nearly half way there:pac:,

Anyway bit of self moderation, how are cattle thriving at grass this summer, any body weigh yet? Have a bunch of yearling heifers that were very slow to lose winter coats, and to my eye weren't thriving. Did a few bloods and low in Iodine, also some stomach worms present in the FEC. Started putting iodine in their water last week. Will dose them again this coming week.

Stock have been doing well..
Have 14month old bullocks and they seem to be flying it.. Used the bolus for Iodine/Copper/Selenium/Cobalt and I think its really showing, no retained hair and shining well. Have had one worm dose to date.

How are lads for grass ??
Topped a bit today and spread some bag too.. Grass has been growing well here, heavier ground is growing well as its retained moisture..

farawaygrass · 19-07-2014 6:40pm

.Kovu. wrote: »

Is there a difference in the 70 days if it's a QA farm to QA farm private movement?

If it's from qa to qa farm you only have to keep them 21 days

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 6:50pm

_Brian wrote: »

Stock have been doing well..
Have 14month old bullocks and they seem to be flying it.. Used the bolus for Iodine/Copper/Selenium/Cobalt and I think its really showing, no retained hair and shining well. Have had one worm dose to date.

How are lads for grass ??
Topped a bit today and spread some bag too.. Grass has been growing well here, heavier ground is growing well as its retained moisture..

I might come under a bit of pressure for grass in a few weeks, it's growing well but lot if farm is dry

Maiden heifers are thriving well

dharn · 19-07-2014 7:21pm

Whats the max killout weight in yer local factory before they cut the price per pound , 400 local to me, kepak athleague are supposed to be allowing up to 450 for steers some of my cattle this year at 30 months with fat score of 3 for qa were killing out over 400 and were being cut , this is really annoying

I said · 19-07-2014 7:24pm

dharn wrote: »

Whats the max killout weight in yer local factory before they cut the price per pound , 400 local to me, kepak athleague are supposed to be allowing up to 450 for steers some of my cattle this year at 30 months with fat score of 3 for qa were killing out over 400 and were being cut , this is really annoying

Depends on what side of the bed they get outof,near me no issue at the moment with QA nonQA overage all cattle accepted.

dharn · 19-07-2014 7:31pm

Pretty disgusting you get a on the grid quote ,but you dont know what you are actually going to get till the bullock is dead

I said · 19-07-2014 7:34pm

That's what they want you don't know whether your coming or going with them

I said · 19-07-2014 7:39pm

Charliebull wrote: »

I might come under a bit of pressure for grass in a few weeks, it's growing well but lot if farm is dry

Maiden heifers are thriving well

Topped today, grass still flying,delighted with thrive on cattle now next dry day treat for red water bayticol is the dose

freedominacup · 19-07-2014 7:40pm

Charliebull wrote: »

I might come under a bit of pressure for grass in a few weeks, it's growing well but lot if farm is dry

Maiden heifers are thriving well

Are you down now? How do conditions compare here to home?

_Brian · 19-07-2014 7:59pm

HOw do lads work grass/ paddock rotation.. How often to fresh grass..

We're not heavily stocked but try and move yearlings to fresh grass every 5-7 days..

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 8:12pm

freedominacup wrote: »

Are you down now? How do conditions compare here to home?

We would probably have had a little more rain overall than ye but ground conditions would be similar on dry ground, up until last week we were struggling but couple days rain sorted that,

simx · 19-07-2014 8:13pm

_Brian wrote: »

HOw do lads work grass/ paddock rotation.. How often to fresh grass..

We're not heavily stocked but try and move yearlings to fresh grass every 5-7 days..

Here it's 3-4 days whether that's right ior wrong

Charliebull · 19-07-2014 8:14pm

_Brian wrote: »

HOw do lads work grass/ paddock rotation.. How often to fresh grass..

We're not heavily stocked but try and move yearlings to fresh grass every 5-7 days..

Try to stick too 3 day graze 3 week rotation as much as possible

I said · 19-07-2014 8:59pm

_Brian wrote: »

HOw do lads work grass/ paddock rotation.. How often to fresh grass..

We're not heavily stocked but try and move yearlings to fresh grass every 5-7 days..

With growth this year am strip grazing and topping,grass management suffering a tad

Farmer Pudsey · 19-07-2014 9:47pm

greysides wrote: »

That might not always be the case. There's a lot in a medicine other than the active ingredient and these things can affect the overall result.

Anyhow, that wasn't the point of the post. Keep be aware that there may be problems coming with the over-use of the avermectin family.

I believe this is incorrect. A generic drug has to be made of exactly the same ingredients or else it has to be retested this is the same with chemicals(sprays). This story is usually peddled by salesmen for branded products.

Yes there growing resistance to avermectin's. One of the reasons I believe is giving too low a dose and another is pour on. The reasons pours could be a big issue is that they are not inside an animal. They are applied on the back. This can lead to different problems. Washing off by rain or sweat of animal. Some of the product not being absorbed due to dirt or thick hair on an animal back. Another is where animals are held in a pen after application and these animals lick each other backs.

A Teagasc advisor told me that worm kill by pour on's can be as low as 50% this indicates not enough product absorbed in the system. It is the same with pour on flukcides and may be a reason for poor performance of closamectin which many farmers are not happy about.

micky mouse · 19-07-2014 10:01pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

However this makes no difference with ivermectins as there is a two week gap.

QUOTE]whats the two week gap "thing"

Farmer Pudsey · 19-07-2014 10:14pm

micky mouse wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

However this makes no difference with ivermectins as there is a two week gap.

QUOTE]whats the two week gap "thing"

Ivermectin not only kill virtually all worms in an animal it also provides two weeks immunity. This means that cattle will not get infected for another two week.

One of the ways to prevent immunity build up is for cattle to regraze land that is infected with worms this prevents a build up of immune parasites

I said · 19-07-2014 10:51pm

Must invest in a head scoop I use pouron the whole time.will have to change strategy.

micky mouse · 19-07-2014 11:08pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

micky mouse wrote: »

Ivermectin not only kill virtually all worms in an animal it also provides two weeks immunity. This means that cattle will not get infected for another two week.

One of the ways to prevent immunity build up is for cattle to regraze land that is infected with worms this prevents a build up of immune parasites

so if using ivermectins its ok to graze old ground for 2 weeks ,then put onto new ground-would i be right in this

GrandSoftDay · 20-07-2014 12:26am

I said wrote: »

Must invest in a head scoop I use pouron the whole time.will have to change strategy.

Never use pour ons for wormer here or the head gate for dosing either. Pack the crush as much as possible and use the hook drencher or inject depending on the dose we are using . Have blocks on one side of the crush so they can't stick their heads out the far side. I'd be the rest of my life dosing cattle if I had to put them all out the head gate rightly or wrongly. Have often bolused cows the same way too. A bit of liquid paraffin on the top of the gun makes it go down a lot easier.

greysides · 20-07-2014 1:07am

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

A bit of liquid paraffin on the top of the gun makes it go down a lot easier.

............ and come out a bit quicker too.:D

GrandSoftDay · 20-07-2014 1:22am

greysides wrote: »

............ and come out a bit quicker too.:D

Just a small drizzle

Farmer Pudsey · 20-07-2014 2:23am

The trick with injecting cattle is to inject on far side of body. This way they kick away from you. GSD may be talking about suckler bred cattle ans specificly about fluke curing/prevention. The dosing hooks are not they are all clapped up to be, some cattle remember them and it can nearly be as time consuming as dosing invidually at head gate.

freedominacup · 20-07-2014 6:18am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The trick with injecting cattle is to inject on far side of body. This way they kick away from you. GSD may be talking about suckler bred cattle ans specificly about fluke curing/prevention. The dosing hooks are not they are all clapped up to be, some cattle remember them and it can nearly be as time consuming as dosing invidually at head gate.

Most cattle remember them pudsey but once the crush is reasonably well packed they can do little enough about it. There's a hook wormer here for over 20 years and if it broke in the morning I'd replace it immeadiately without too much reference to price. If a new one lasted half as long as the old one it'd be good value at a grand.

Kevin the sheep · 20-07-2014 7:28am

This is a great thread great to see everyone's opinion on doseing and ways in which they do it and other aspects of beef it's handy to hear how others are doing things to see could I and others do it a better way it would be handy if some could put up videos of there facility's to see how I and others could change ours to make it easier on man and beast

Charliebull · 20-07-2014 7:37am

jayus i have always used pour ons but would put calves in for a few hours before dosing,

how much is one of them dosing guns,

simx · 20-07-2014 10:01am

Charliebull wrote: »

jayus i have always used pour ons but would put calves in for a few hours before dosing,

how much is one of them dosing guns,

Never bought one yet, always came with special offers with doses

stack18 · 20-07-2014 10:34am

Muckit wrote: »

That's only sh*t talk lad. They are not all one mans costs. What about all the deductions on the factory kill sheet?

Lads are foolish if they think marts don't have a place in beef. They are the only place that you will get the true price for your stock. You are guaranteed your money what's more. I have no problem with mart fees. The cost is more than recouped by getting the right market price for your animal in the first place.

I'd encourage all farmers, especially small farmers with small numbers to sell all their cattle, especially factory fit cattle through their local mart. Don't get caught up with movements QA etc. It's a load of balls to try tie you up in a knot.

And don't you be worrying about how the buyer can afford to pay you that amount for your cattle when you wouldn't get the colour of it if you booked them in yourself. There seems to be a two tier system. And that's ok by me now that I know it. It's one price for the small guy and another for the big guy.

You don't get that sh*t going on in a mart.

Wouldn't agree the Mart is the place to get true price of Cattle you just have gang of hawks around the ring watching cheap beef so they will have a good days wage out of if. Know plenty of lads that didn't sell finished Cattle in the ring went to the factory and made a good bit more than the ring price. If you have the Cattle to tick all the boxes you will get paid in the factory.

blue5000 · 20-07-2014 11:27am

+1 if you ever want to see quality cattle go to a lairage, if you want to see sh1te go to a mart, especially in a strong dairy area.

whelan2 · 20-07-2014 11:30am

Charliebull wrote: »

jayus i have always used pour ons but would put calves in for a few hours before dosing,

how much is one of them dosing guns,

think it was 70 euro, for the hook and the gun

Greengrass1 · 20-07-2014 12:17pm

Up at neighbours there. He has a lim cow 10days over incalf to a lime.
Put my hand in her for him. Calf seems perfect. Will she hold much longer?

jj92 · 20-07-2014 12:19pm

I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.

I said · 20-07-2014 12:31pm

jj92 wrote: »

I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.

If you sent a dozen at that price and got €4 a kg for 11 and €3.35 for one by my reckoning you got €3.95 average for the twelve.factories ya would never be up to them.

Kovu · 20-07-2014 12:31pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Up at neighbours there. He has a lim cow 10days over incalf to a lime.
Put my hand in her for him. Calf seems perfect. Will she hold much longer?

Lim to a lim normally holds close to 3 weeks here. But I noted that 2 flightier lims will always calve a lot earlier- around 10 days - 2 weeks over their time.

I wouldn't be too worried anyway, the handling may make her come sooner.

rangler1 · 20-07-2014 12:35pm

jj92 wrote: »

I got caught on the hop by the factory/agent recently. We'd agreed a flat rate €4.00/kg for Herefords under 36 months, only 2 of them in a group of over a dozen mixed cattle. One graded 0 and I got the €4.00 for him, and the other graded P and now I'm getting paid 3.35 /kg for him. When we'd agreed a flat rate the agent reckoned it was an O, he said it, but he never said what woud happen if he graded P. He says now that you just cannot get the €4 if they grade P and basically I should have known this. I didn't and am just wondering if anyone out there can give their impression of what flat rate prices should mean when dealing with factories. My instinct tells me that the price agreed is the price and that's it.

He should be made give you the €4/kg...

jj92 · 20-07-2014 12:36pm

I said wrote: »

If you sent a dozen at that price and got €4 a kg for 11 and €3.35 for one by my reckoning you got €3.95 average for the twelve.factories ya would never be up to them.

Sorry but only 2 of the lot were Hereford, the rest were overage Fr steers etc. with different prices agreed. It's about €220 euro less in the cheque, which is serious. If I'd known that "flat rate" meant "the price agreed but..." I may not have agreed the price.

mf240 · 20-07-2014 12:48pm

Flat means flat. You should of gotten 4 euros for both.

But good luck getting it out of them.

I said · 20-07-2014 12:49pm

jj92 wrote: »

Sorry but only 2 of the lot were Hereford, the rest were overage Fr steers etc. with different prices agreed. It's about €220 euro less in the cheque, which is serious. If I'd known that "flat rate" meant "the price agreed but..." I may not have agreed the price.

Well then flat rate is what I would mean to be price agreed which in your case is €4 as rangler has stated he should be made pay it

Farmer Pudsey · 20-07-2014 1:01pm

If you agreed a flat rate for the two it should be paid on the two. If one graded R would you have got extra I doubt it. The other thing the P price for dropping a grade was severe. I think they were looking for a reason to reduce the price. I be telling him to stump up however you may have a battle on your hands.

Reggie. · 20-07-2014 1:10pm

Don't let him darken your door again either

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