Aer lingus Share Price

sausagefingers · 19-10-2013 1:33pm #1

Aer Lingus is down about 25% from its recent high of €1.75. It currently trades at €1.40. Is it a good buy at these levels.

If the pension is ever resolved, surely its stock price goes much higher. It trades on very low multiples when compared to other airlines

gordongekko · 19-10-2013 1:43pm

sausagefingers wrote: »

Aer Lingus is down about 25% from its recent high of €1.75. It currently trades at €1.40. Is it a good buy at these levels.

If the pension is ever resolved, surely its stock price goes much higher. It trades on very low multiples when compared to other airlines

Richard Branson was once asked how do you become a millionaire. His reply was first become a billionaire and then buy an airline.

There are a lot of positives with Aer Lingus but until the ryanair shareholding issue gets sorted it may drag on the share price.

garhjw · 20-10-2013 10:40am

Also, the parasitic trade unions looking to drain the cash reserves is an issue. Too much uncertainty

hfallada · 20-10-2013 10:44am

Most analyst say its a pretty good company. There isn't too many profitable small airlines like it. It's fleet is quite modern. And there transatlantic service is growing rapidly. If you live in the uk and fly to Ireland, then the us you avoid some travel tax.

venividi · 20-10-2013 12:59pm

Aer lingus definitely in a much better position today thanks to the competition from Ryanair. Mueller seems a tough shrewd operator. This will be tested by pension ticking time bomb issue & political influences 2 placate unions. I bought at 92 cents watched in fall to 56 cents and cashed out at 1.41 and watched it rise and fall again subsequently to today's price. I personally would stay away. Too many Industrial relations risks in the short term as well as Ryanair and government overhang, neither looking likely to be resolved soon

Cute Hoor · 20-10-2013 6:41pm

Fair play to the Aer Lingus (and DAA) trade unions, fighting to try to protect their worker’s pension rights, pensions that the workers have contributed to all their working lives, rather than leaving them potentially penniless like what happened to the WW workers. If it’s a choice between international investor’s headaches and ordinary worker's/pensioner's wellbeing I know which side I'm on.

garhjw · 20-10-2013 7:03pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Fair play to the Aer Lingus (and DAA) trade unions, fighting to try to protect their worker’s pension rights, pensions that the workers have contributed to all their working lives, rather than leaving them potentially penniless like what happened to the WW workers. If it’s a choice between international investor’s headaches and ordinary worker's/pensioner's wellbeing I know which side I'm on.

Aer lingus are under no obligation to plug that gap. It's unfortunate there is a deficit but it happens. You don't see companies in the private sector doing this. It's just the parasites and vultures in the unions trying to get their claws in.

Unions also played a large part in WW going under.

Now back on topic, I would not invest in aer lingus due to the points already raised by posters. Too much uncertainty from an industrial relations perspective. Unions just look for reasons to take strike action

Cute Hoor · 20-10-2013 7:09pm

garhjw wrote: »

It's just the parasites and vultures in the unions trying to get their claws in.

I’m assuming that you understand the trade union concept, representatives of the workers, elected by the workers. So the Aer Lingus workers are parasites?

garhjw · 20-10-2013 7:55pm

Surely there is a trade union forum where you can carry on your little rant? No need to hijack the thread which was discussing whether or not aer lingus shares are a good investment.

Cute Hoor · 20-10-2013 8:02pm

garhjw wrote: »

No need to hijack the thread which was discussing whether or not aer lingus shares are a good investment.

Can I direct you to the third post on this topic.

I suspect you are struggling somewhat at this stage

garhjw · 20-10-2013 8:06pm

Whats your point? the trade unions are trying to get their hands on the company's cash reserves. they. Are threatening to strike if they dont get it. they have not right to that moeny. Do you think people should not consider such risks when making an investment decision?

Do you understand?

Cute Hoor · 20-10-2013 8:23pm

garhjw wrote: »

Whats your point? the trade unions are trying to get their hands on the company's cash reserves. they. Are threatening to strike if they dont get it. they have not right to that moeny. Do you think people should not consider such risks when making an investment decision?

Do you understand?

OK I'm going to have one final go at this, as simple as I can make it.

The Aer Lingus workers (represented by their trade union(s)) are trying to ensure that they receive the pensions that they are entitled to. It would appear that you are quite happy to see these pensioners penniless for the sake of a few cent on the SP.

garhjw · 20-10-2013 8:34pm

But this is a thread about investments. You know the objective is to make money?

lucky john · 20-10-2013 8:56pm

I have had air lingus on my shortlist several times but always shyed away in the end. Its a share with potential to double but unions, pensions, ryanair, and minister's are major negitaves. At the best of times airline shares are just one pilot error away from wipe out so you don't need any other head winds against you really. ( Apologies to any nervous fliers).

MrBizzles · 20-10-2013 10:42pm

Dodgy business investing in airlines, always avoided them and if i was to invest i wouldnt but investing in Aer Lingus

sausagefingers · 26-10-2013 12:49pm

I believe Aer Lingus management and staff deserve a fair amount of credit for turning the company around. This year will be the forth very profitable year in a row.

As for the pension, previous management allowed workers to leave the company on early retirement at 55 and draw down their pension at this age. This helped the company reduce the payroll cost but destroyed the pension. Current staff who have paid into the pension all their lives are now facing getting very little back. This was a big error by the company's previous management, so I do think it is unfair to say that the unions are trying to get their claws on Aer lingus cash to plug the pension, when the company used the pension for its own benefit previously. I also think it is very unfair that people who are retired do are not affected when the pension is underfunded while those still working can be wiped out. The law needs to be changed on this.

but back to the share price....results are out on the 5th on November. it may be a difficult few years for the company on short haul routes now that Ryanair are going to be "nice guys" to passengers. But Long Haul seems to be going well, so hopefully that offsets the short haul difficulties. Also, Oil prices seem to be drifting ever slightly lower as against where they were last year...always a positive.

Sonnenblumen · 27-10-2013 2:19pm

I have no connection with Aer Lingus, but as a casual observer, I have very mixed feelings on how management seem to be in a state of continuous/ permanent conflict with staff. It does appear that seek blood from stones and treat obliging staff in a despicable manner.

Ryanair has come in for much criticism on staff relations but I think there is a new kid on the block willing to take over the mantle.

Management style and strategy appears to be seasonal, limping from one crisis to another, routes introduced only to be cancelled again. Yet they can sign 10 year agreements with a loss making partner?

garhjw · 27-10-2013 10:01pm

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I have no connection with Aer Lingus, but as a casual observer, I have very mixed feelings on how management seem to be in a state of continuous/ permanent conflict with staff. It does appear that seek blood from stones and treat obliging staff in a despicable manner.

Ryanair has come in for much criticism on staff relations but I think there is a new kid on the block willing to take over the mantle.

Management style and strategy appears to be seasonal, limping from one crisis to another, routes introduced only to be cancelled again. Yet they can sign 10 year agreements with a loss making partner?

I disagree, it is the inflexibility of the unions which causes the issues. For example, unions wanted a salary increase for cabin crew starting to use credit card machines on flights... Apparently it is a change in working conditions... How can you work with that kind of attitude?

Sonnenblumen · 28-10-2013 1:14am

garhjw wrote: »

I disagree, it is the inflexibility of the unions which causes the issues. For example, unions wanted a salary increase for cabin crew starting to use credit card machines on flights... Apparently it is a change in working conditions... How can you work with that kind of attitude?

I believe that if you treat workers well and with respect they will reward you with loyalty and performance. There are many examples where workers have been treated poorly to such a point where there is no more give or concession and every and any change is a bitter contest. In my opinion this is commonly found in poorly run and managed organizations, there are the obvious ones some large transport cos. for starters.

AL is similar. I have every sympathy for the workers, and if they have any perks left, it ain't their fault but some willy nilly weak management concession from whenever.

BTW credit card machines have been used in flight for years and I'm not a member of any Union.

garhjw · 28-10-2013 1:49am

AL treats its worker very well. My wife worked in A L head office and the atitude of some people who work there is sickening. they constantly look for confrontation and and any excuse to run to the union. AL workers probably have the best wroking conditions of any airline in europe. It is a difficult industry to operate in and AL management and many of its workers are doing a very good job despite the efforts of some...

Laughable to say otherwide

mickman · 28-10-2013 6:28pm

Trade unions cost jobs , they don't protect or create them

world_weary · 24-01-2015 2:36pm

did anyone hear something about a further bid from AIG ( 2.50 ) on the news at one today ( or was i hearing things i wanted to ) ?

stevedublin · 24-01-2015 4:12pm

world_weary wrote: »

did anyone hear something about a further bid from AIG ( 2.50 ) on the news at one today ( or was i hearing things i wanted to ) ?

There was another bid a few days ago of €2.50, no reply from Aer Lingus on it yet.

world_weary · 24-01-2015 4:25pm

stevedublin wrote: »

There was another bid a few days ago of €2.50, no reply from Aer Lingus on it yet.

yes it said it was made a few days ago but the markets ( presumably ) have only been made aware of it today

SP likely to rise substantially on monday ( 5% plus )

saggart26 · 27-01-2015 11:35am

Can someone please explain what happens to the aer lingus shareholders if the bid is approved? How does the shareholder receive the cash? What happens to the shares?

Cute Hoor · 27-01-2015 12:26pm

saggart26 wrote: »

Can someone please explain what happens to the aer lingus shareholders if the bid is approved? How does the shareholder receive the cash? What happens to the shares?

I'm assuming this will have to go to an EGM for approval, the ordinary shareholder will have no control over what happens at this if the Government and Ryanair have already given their blessing to the offer.

As this appears to be an all-cash offer, you will probably have to return your share certificates (if you are holding them physically) to the registrar and you will duly receive your cheque in the post. If you are holding your share certificates with a broker the money should just be lodged to your account.

Whole process will probably take a couple of months, so people are probably reluctant to be buying in now and tying up their money for that length of time.

saggart26 · 27-01-2015 12:41pm

Cheers Cute Hoor, yeah I’m guessing most investors will want to cash out with the exception of the government.
IAG will only go ahead if Noonan accepts and I don’t think the government will make a quick decision on it. It’s a bit of a hot potato for them because it’s likely to impact jobs and flight paths.

Bateman · 27-01-2015 2:39pm

You're having a laugh. It might look like a hot potato but if the govt have the option of taking the payday and buying the next election, it won’t be up for discussion at cabinet.

Farmer Pudsey · 28-01-2015 3:38pm

Bateman wrote: »

You're having a laugh. It might look like a hot potato but if the govt have the option of taking the payday and buying the next election, it won’t be up for discussion at cabinet.

300 million will not buy next election. You can already see TD's in effecte area's starting to voice concerns. Not sure if Government will have guts to sell it with conditions re slots which would be the right decision. By being fast it could maybe get another 10c/share however is kicking the can down the road with expert group

saggart26 · 28-01-2015 4:45pm

If IAG decide to put the offer on the table and Ryanair agree to sell its stake 30% and IAG buy up another 20% from PI’s, can government then prevent the take over? How much of say does government actually have in this?

saggart26 · 28-01-2015 4:46pm

If IAG decide to put the offer on the table and Ryanair agree to sell its stake 30% and IAG buy up another 20% from PI’s, can government then prevent the take over? How much of a say does government actually have in this?

Aer lingus Share Price

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