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Land Improvements thread

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    #62
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    nashmach wrote: »
    Heaps of clay here there and everywhere!

    No one has mentioned on going maintenance of drains, you need to be rodding any outlets from pipes at least once a year.

    plan for the weekend is to shift all the heaps of earth to the left of the picture and doze the a couple of feet of subsoil where the track machine is to where the heaps of earth are in the pic. Only have the dozer for 3 days so they will be three long ones.

    First pic is another field finished earlier in the week with track machines that I started into this morning with the leveler, second pic is it about 80% done before the rain stopped play, taught I would get it seeded today but will leave it till monday now. 50ft forward in the second picture there was a 20ft drop to a stream that disappeared/piped underground 2 years ago


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    #63
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    bob charles wrote: »
    plan for the weekend is to shift all the heaps of earth to the left of the picture and doze the a couple of feet of subsoil where the track machine is to where the heaps of earth are in the pic. Only have the dozer for 3 days so they will be three long ones.

    First pic is another field finished earlier in the week with track machines that I started into this morning with the leveler, second pic is it about 80% done before the rain stopped play, taught I would get it seeded today but will leave it till monday now. 50ft forward in the second picture there was a 20ft drop to a stream that disappeared/piped underground 2 years ago

    Given there is a long fall on that field, did you consider any diagonal drains to catch the water are it moves down along the field? If you have clay underneath then it won't soak much water. Would it be worth it next year to? It make a great difference to the ground below the drains especially after a flood.

    One other thing I noticed last year was the cattle tended to travel the stone drains and break off into the grass. It saved an awful lot of damage to the ground.


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    #64
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/WasteWater/Drainage/GreaterDublinStrategicDrainageStudy/Documents/Vol%203%20-%20%20Filter%20Drains.pdf


    Interesting article on road drainage from Dublin City Council. The terram type drains.


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    #65
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Figerty wrote: »
    Just to add a new dimension to this. Have a look at the following link, We are in the middle of constructing a new GAA pitch. you can follow the development as it goes.

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.548769261827427.1073741844.191980570839633&type=3
    Not on facebook, I take it it's Kilmaley? I may have to set up a new email address to get going on facebook...


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    #66
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Conflats wrote: »
    Does everyone open and pipe/chip the drains on the same day or have I being reading wrong as I always understood that a drain should be left open for a month or 2 until the land has dried a bit?
    Depends on the land. If it's shallow top soil on top of clay then fine good to leave them open a while. If the sides are brittle and likely to crumble in then not such a good idea.

    I've done both depending on the individual circumstances. I'd one open for nearly 2 months earlier this year and 20 minutes with a shovel had the few loose bits that had fallen in cleared out of it.


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    #67
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    bob charles wrote: »
    I dont know if we are making progress or not doing my current field. Dozer back in this afternoon to shift more subsoil into a low spot to "make a proper job of it:rolleyes:"
    bob charles wrote: »
    plan for the weekend is to shift all the heaps of earth to the left of the picture and doze the a couple of feet of subsoil where the track machine is to where the heaps of earth are in the pic. Only have the dozer for 3 days so they will be three long ones.

    Looking at the photo it is hard to tell but am I right in thinking it was taken from a high point and there is a decent fall away from you down towards the end with the track machine? Also there is top soil in the foreground but as you move down the field this changes more towards a peaty topsoil?

    How come all the work moving subsoil with the dozer? If you drained the field to its lowest point can you get the water away from there? I'd imagine the dozer must add substantially to the cost...


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    #68
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    bob charles wrote: »
    First pic is another field finished earlier in the week with track machines that I started into this morning with the leveler, second pic is it about 80% done before the rain stopped play, taught I would get it seeded today but will leave it till monday now. 50ft forward in the second picture there was a 20ft drop to a stream that disappeared/piped underground 2 years ago
    Mighty work Bob. Have you drainage put in? In the second pic it looks like a trench along the wall on the right with shore drains catching water off the slope into it would do a great job.


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    #69
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    just do it wrote: »
    Not on facebook, I take it it's Kilmaley? I may have to set up a new email address to get going on facebook...

    Ya, Pitch being constructed.. If we could drain all land this way we would be broke but have great grass!


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    #70
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    Figerty wrote: »
    Given there is a long fall on that field, did you consider any diagonal drains to catch the water are it moves down along the field? If you have clay underneath then it won't soak much water. Would it be worth it next year to? It make a great difference to the ground below the drains especially after a flood.

    hadnt taught of that, but as I said drainage wouldn't be my strong point as majority of our land has the opposite problem with rock. this ground is 25miles away from me. there is a good fall in the field but also fairly level. We are hoping for a natural drainage once we have it back together. before I started there were to very steep inclines V'ing into the middle. we cut the sides and filled the middle while also leaving a slight slope into the middle and off to the sides. Main drain goes down through the middle. The subsoil is a sandy type stuff and drainage of it would be pretty good but the part im going filling was just 5ft of peat soil so give when we are finished the rest of the field will be dry apart from this spot so that why we are going doing what we are. Idea is to not graze this land and use for silage alone.

    Attached is a photo of land before being attacked with roundup. years of neglect for different reasons as I dont own the land but its extended family land:rolleyes:

    second pic is of where roundup was applied last year in May 12 during the dry weather on one of the hills in an adjoining field. I ran out of spray as can be seen from the right of the picture. its amazing the difference on how much the ground has dried up just killing the rushes. using allot of mineral oil with Glyophosate seems to burn the life out of them. Hope to get onto this section next year

    just do it wrote: »
    How come all the work moving subsoil with the dozer? If you drained the field to its lowest point can you get the water away from there? I'd imagine the dozer must add substantially to the cost...

    We are trying to do a lifetime job and the subsoil is of such that it will really aid drainage. some parts had 5ft of peat so backfilled these areas and reduce soil to 6" to a foot. The varying levels of the field lead to this method being the best in our view. Contractor has final call as he is used of this land. Cost will be around 1.5 to 2k an acre when finished, I have high expectations of the ground once the job is complete. anywhere there is a fall into there are stone drains draining to the sides and connected to middle drain that splits the field


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    #71
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    bob charles wrote: »
    years of neglect for different reasons as I dont own the land

    Well you certainly can't be accused of allowing the neglect to continue bob! I look forward to next year's pictures of lush green fields :).


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    #72
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    When you bulldoze an few feet into a hollow to raise it up would you expect much settling over the next year or two ?
    If you dont own the land bob , will you have it rent free for a few years or did you get a long lease on it ?


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    #73
    buffalobilly
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭buffalobilly


    What would be wrong with the 4in limestone someone told me it was the best for iron ore as it would filter it the best (I always use 1in clean stone myself) but find it very expensive and was going to try the limestone where I have iron ore all opinions welcome


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    #74
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    Did a bit of searching on this. Iron Ochre is very hard to beat once its there in the ground, but it depends on the type of soil. Here is a good background article from Canada

    http://fyi.uwex.edu/drainage/files/2012/06/Iron-Ochre-in-Agricultural-Drains2.pdf

    another article said the source of the iron could be anywhere within 5km!

    With regards to using Limestone as a filler where there is Iron Ochre.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/AE/AE02600.pdf
    Liming the Drain Trench
    The purpose here is to precipitate iron and prevent ochre formation in drains. It was found to be unsatisfactory in Germany. Iron in combination with lime in the trench decreased permeability, which defeated the purpose of a permeable backfill in a drain trench.
    In 1961, slag gravel from the production of elemental phosphorus was used as an envelope for drains in Florida. The system eventually failed because the slag disintegrated and formed a seal around the drain. Lime rock will do the same thing. A similar reaction occurred in Germany with the use of copper slag, but because of the bactericidal action of copper, the blockage from slag took about 8 years.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/AE/AE02600.pdf

    Teagasc also have a drainage manual.
    http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/2821/Land%20Drainage%20Manual.pdf


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    #75
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Thanks figerty, some good reference material there. Teagasc manual looks good and finally they have committed something to paper about draining peat soils (p19).


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    #76
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    just do it wrote: »
    Thanks figerty, some good reference material there. Teagasc manual looks good and finally they have committed something to paper about draining peat soils (p19).
    Teagasc have acknowledged that there are many types of Peat soils and these need different techniques.

    One thing I did read today was that to not use geotextile membranes where there is Iron water (ochre) as this will clog first and stay clogged. The bacteria love this stuff.


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    #77
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    F.D wrote: »
    Funny the best people can come up with is trees when it comes to land improvments, good thing there no chance of a famine again
    Old fellas around me keep saying theres no such thing as bad land just bad drainage,

    Seen a lot of money spent on drainage to make really unproductive land into unproductive land... How much would you spend an acre to get a bit of summer grazing...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #78
    dar31
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dar31


    when you are running a drain pipe out through a ditch(hedge) put a full length of wavin at the end, this stops the roots from growing down through the slits in the yellow pipe and blocking it up.
    put a scoop of soil at the end where the pipe runs into the drain as it forces the water through the last stretch of pipe and keeps it washed out


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    #79
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Seen a lot of money spent on drainage to make really unproductive land into unproductive land... How much would you spend an acre to get a bit of summer grazing...


    Agreed - I would add that before everyone jumps on the current bandwagon to expand silage production even in the most marginal and unsuitable land - there are a lot of things to think about

    Before starting work will the returns in terms of possilble improvement be justified to the spending on machinery / materials and time

    1) Where if anywhere are the drains going to outfall - will this cause other potential problems downstream?

    2) if the land is low lying / at low point in landscape with no proper gradient outflows - where is the water supposed to go?

    3) if there is an existing impermeable sub soil layer across a wide area then single point drains are not going to make a whole load of difference

    4) check if the soil itself of a impermeable type and also consideration that the mixing subsoil and topsoil may result in more damage than remediation

    5) Stone lined drains have a limited lifespan before final siltation and failure and return of existing water levels

    In many cases in and clinatic conditions I believe it can be often a case of trying to make a pigs ear into a silk purse - unlikely and costs a fortune in time, effort and resources.


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    #80
    dar31
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dar31


    wet areas opened up to let dry over the winter, will try get a few pic of the end of the run this evening

    268899.jpg

    268898.jpg


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    #81
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    the progress

    1st - looking down from the higher point, standing in the hole that there was 5ft of peat in before now
    2nd - looking up for the bottom of the field with the fall coming towards the camera.

    Subsoil is such that if the water off the field goes down evenly it should be free draining. Sandy stuff locals call bunarú if thats how you spell it. Dozer has done serious work in 20hrs. currently grading off for final finish before soil goes back on.


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    #82
    bob charles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    dar31 wrote: »
    wet areas opened up to let dry over the winter, will try get a few pic of the end of the run this evening

    doesnt look too wet there dar. Once left to dry out for a few months and you wont know it. make sure to tackle any rushes now so they have disappeared for work next year. I have a good few damp corners sorted this year that had to be left for the last number of years. Surprised the amount of extra acres when all drilled up. one field there was shag all in since I took it on in a lease was 4 ac and I taught there was feck all in it. Dry as a bone now. previous tenant wintered cattle there :mad:


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    #83
    Marooned75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Marooned75


    bob charles wrote: »
    the progress

    1st - looking down from the higher point, standing in the hole that there was 5ft of peat in before now
    2nd - looking up for the bottom of the field with the fall coming towards the camera.

    Subsoil is such that if the water off the field goes down evenly it should be free draining. Sandy stuff locals call bunarú if thats how you spell it. Dozer has done serious work in 20hrs. currently grading off for final finish before soil goes back on.

    Some twine spent on that bob I'd say


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    #84
    Figerty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Figerty


    bob charles wrote: »
    the progress

    1st - looking down from the higher point, standing in the hole that there was 5ft of peat in before now
    2nd - looking up for the bottom of the field with the fall coming towards the camera.

    Subsoil is such that if the water off the field goes down evenly it should be free draining. Sandy stuff locals call bunarú if thats how you spell it. Dozer has done serious work in 20hrs. currently grading off for final finish before soil goes back on.

    That earth looks good; very few rocks and nice colour in it.
    Hopefully the weather will hold good for you.


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    #85
    razor8
    Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭razor8


    before during and after


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    #86
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    lovely pics there razor, says it all really. I'd say those sheep will make a job of it.

    Will they get rid of any weeds (buttercups etc) or will you come in with a spray?


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    #87
    razor8
    Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭razor8


    sheep are very contented, lying most of the time and getting up and stretching!

    seed went in 5 weeks tomorrow, have a few docks and redshank through it, but generally very happy with it,

    rang crowd i got seed from and they said to hold off the spray until October as i will check growth, it was a high clover mix, so thats what i will do. he also said that he never seen reseeding do so well in 20 years as much as its done in the last month

    ploughing another 5 acres tomorrow


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    #88
    orchardfarmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 43 ✭orchardfarmer


    lads how long would you leave it before putting the sheep in

    i have new grass up 4 weeks now, theres a good cover on it but you can still pull the odd plant out, shoud i wait another couple of weeks?


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    #89
    orchardfarmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 43 ✭orchardfarmer


    bob charles wrote: »
    hadnt taught of that, but as I said drainage wouldn't be my strong point as majority of our land has the opposite problem with rock. this ground is 25miles away from me. there is a good fall in the field but also fairly level. We are hoping for a natural drainage once we have it back together. before I started there were to very steep inclines V'ing into the middle. we cut the sides and filled the middle while also leaving a slight slope into the middle and off to the sides. Main drain goes down through the middle. The subsoil is a sandy type stuff and drainage of it would be pretty good but the part im going filling was just 5ft of peat soil so give when we are finished the rest of the field will be dry apart from this spot so that why we are going doing what we are. Idea is to not graze this land and use for silage alone.

    Attached is a photo of land before being attacked with roundup. years of neglect for different reasons as I dont own the land but its extended family land:rolleyes:

    second pic is of where roundup was applied last year in May 12 during the dry weather on one of the hills in an adjoining field. I ran out of spray as can be seen from the right of the picture. its amazing the difference on how much the ground has dried up just killing the rushes. using allot of mineral oil with Glyophosate seems to burn the life out of them. Hope to get onto this section next year




    We are trying to do a lifetime job and the subsoil is of such that it will really aid drainage. some parts had 5ft of peat so backfilled these areas and reduce soil to 6" to a foot. The varying levels of the field lead to this method being the best in our view. Contractor has final call as he is used of this land. Cost will be around 1.5 to 2k an acre when finished, I have high expectations of the ground once the job is complete. anywhere there is a fall into there are stone drains draining to the sides and connected to middle drain that splits the field

    thats a savage bit of work there
    i have a similar bit of work to do on 4 acres at home, have me own digger so going to try with a digger and dumper rather than bring in the dozer, just trying to build up the courage to start!!
    i promised meself i would take a years break when i finished the last field 4 weeks ago!! itchy feet already...


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    #90
    agriman27
    Registered Users Posts: 496 ✭✭agriman27


    A few months ago I was looking online for info on land drainage. I found a book on the amazon website it's called 'Farm Drainage The Principles Processes And Effects'. The book is free to download as an e-book. It was published in 1860 a long time ago I know, but I found it very interesting and informative. There's not that much info on the net about land drainage. I think it's worth a look if any of ye are interested its on amazon for FREE :pac:


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    #91
    razor8
    Registered Users Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭razor8


    orchardfarmer wrote: »
    lads how long would you leave it before putting the sheep in

    i have new grass up 4 weeks now, theres a good cover on it but you can still pull the odd plant out, shoud i wait another couple of weeks?

    i put lambs in just short of 5 weeks and there doing no harm, the grass has really took off last 10 days so it needs ating


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