Association of Body Modification Artists In Ireland (ABMAI)

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.
I'm saying this because I don't particularly want a bunch of people with no tattoos and no clue about tattooing to be telling tattooers and studios what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Wait, you mean you haven't heard about the tattoo on Enda's ....:eek:



I'm joking of course but who's to say what tattoos or piercings any of them might have that they keep private for fear of how it might be perceived by their constituents. Could you not just see some of them spending their Saturday nights in gimp outfits?:D

I would hope that should they ever decide to legislate that they would have a consultation period with those in the industry, and not just bang out a law with no real discussion on it in spite of public discontent (a certain copyright law springs to mind:rolleyes:), but sadly there are no guarantees that such a sensible approach would be used.:(



TBH when I first saw that link and post I was thinking phishing/troll:o but I clicked it anyway since the url behind it matched the text, when I saw the list of artists I was pleasantly surprised:). Hopefully it will grow and all will benefit from the sharing of ideas and information.

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

Personally, as a tattooer, I'm glad there's no legislation in a way.

Because you get to tattoo young children "like their mommy" in a backstreet shack that you don't think has electricity...?

Yes, I went there, and yes, I believe there is a need for legislation.

the_syco wrote: »

Because you get to tattoo young children "like their mommy" in a backstreet shack that you don't think has electricity...?

:rolleyes:

My shop takes a scanned copy of everyone's ID.

There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.

And there's plenty of clean studios that check for ID and those studios still put out absolute fúckin' garbage tattoos and piercings.

We also believe that internal industry regulation is preferable to outside regulation. However, where legislation is inevitable, we will seek to co-operate with legislators to ensure that the legislation is fair, logical and enforceable.

It is our understanding that the long awaited publication of the government hepatitis C strategy is imminent. Bearing this in mind we need to show that we are capable on self regulation before we have legislation forced upon us.

Haggling among ourselves will get us nowhere. ABMAI are in a position to represent the industry but we need support from the community to show purpose and solidarity within the profession.

Pauleeeeeeee wrote: »

My shop takes a scanned copy of everyone's ID.

There's plenty of countries that do have government regulation. It still hasn't stopped massive amounts of underage tattooing done by scratchers and crappy studios.

Sorry, forgot the obligatory smilie in my post :pac:

I'd support legalisation to ensure rules are followed, or the place gets shut down.

As for "self regulation"; if it's not happening now, it won't happen voluntarily!

ABMAI wrote: »

We spent months doing research before launching ABMAI and we have already drawn up a set of standards and an audit checklist for our members. (Refer to the code of ethics in first post) Our next job is to get artists to sign to to ABMAI and the public looking for the ABMAI logo in the studios. If you agree with our mission then it's up to you guys to help make it work.

Our website is fairly comprehensive so do take time to have a look. We welcome your feedback. Our standards can be found at:

http://www.abmai.org/standards.html

Therein lies the problem. It's all well and good people having the seal of approval, and a nice cert on the wall. But you're relying on people doing homework, and knowing what's best for them. The majority of people that come on here are already taking these steps, or get educated pretty quickly. But you only have to look at the amount of young people queueing up at certain places that have a reputation for being notoriously bad to know that the self regulation won't work, because you don't have the power to shut down those that use shoddy practices.

And I'm sorry Pauleeeeeeee, but being a good tattoo artist and having good hygiene standards do not necessarily go hand in hand. It's just that those that value their work, and have pride in what they do will most likely adhere to best practices.

Having legislation in place will ensure that people can't just decide to open up shop anywhere, with the most basic equipment that they can buy from ebay and without any proper training in sterilization, blood bourne pathogens etc... Sure that stuff can be taught in a week or two, but are scratchers going to take that extra step to ensure that their standards are high? Not unless there are serious penalties otherwise.

Having some places/artists sign up to a self-regulatory body is not going to change anything, as these are the ones that will already have decent standards.

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Having legislation in place will ensure that people can't just decide to open up shop anywhere, with the most basic equipment that they can buy from ebay and without any proper training in sterilization, blood bourne pathogens etc... Sure that stuff can be taught in a week or two, but are scratchers going to take that extra step to ensure that their standards are high? Not unless there are serious penalties otherwise.

Or steal, was there not a robbery at one of the studios (Snakebite I believe?) this year where they nicked the tattoo equipment?:(


Sadly, even were it a legally controlled area I suspect there'd still be some folks who'd go to a dodgy, back-alley-type if it meant that they'd get it done before they turn 18 or if it costs less. Never underestimate human stupidity...:(

It is a difficult situation, but at least with a group like ABMAI those in the industry can try to be organized in lobbying the government, whether it be on getting legislation put in place or should some TD's ambitions exceed his/her knowledge in the area and they produce some poorly thought out legislature on the matter.
Heck if some politician does decide to try which is better:

• having them have to call umpteen different studios to talk to the staff and probably just going with whatever the first one tells them and not bothering to call any others
• or having an organization they could be directed to which could deliver a more considered response instead of just any one person's feelings on the matter.

Those "tattoo parties" worry me...:(
Firstly I just can't shake the sense of there being a much higher risk of cross-contamination, then there's the general hygiene problem (your kitchen may be clean enough to eat in but I don't think you'd want to have surgery there), and of course there's the question of proper disposal of the used needles. Used needles are not something you should just throw in the domestic trash.:mad:
Even if the "hireling" brings the used items with them, then how did they store them for transport? Is there a risk that those used needles are contaminating unused ones in their gear? What about the motorised unit, is that potentially contaminating stuff in their bag that they will go on to use on someone else? This all of course assumes that they even bother to deal with proper cleaning and disposal once they get back to where-ever they came from.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Id like to know where they go aswell.
As arawn says--€150 for a bit paper??

Now if that bit of paper was a Tattooing/Piercing Licence worth €150.00 backed by legislation then Id agree 100% with it.

Ive a question for the user ABMAI.

Has your organisation inspected every members shop on your membership list??Have they gone in and made sure that your recommendations have been followed?
Can you verify that they are using your guidelines 100%??

Or have you just introduced yourselves to artists and taken their fees without doing any of the above??



This quote is from your website.
So if you'd like to get your hands on your very own framed membership cert, or even have a chat with us to find out more about who ABMAI are and what we are all about, drop by our stand in the rugby club building "next door to the bar!" and say hi!

We'll have application forms, new membership certificates and even some of these A2 posters for your studio


See the highlighted part--Does that mean any artist can walk into the Middleton convention,pay their fees and get a nice framed certificate on the spot??
If thats the case how can you sign people up without verification??

ABMAI is a not for profit organisation. The membership fee ranges from €25 for a temporary membership (for tattoo conventions etc) to €150 for a studio memberships including 2 artists. We are working to make this a cost neutral fee as our members will benefit from discounts which we have negotiated.
Our fees go towards the costs involved in setting up and running the organisation.





Administration

• Telephone
• Website/social media upkeep
• Website hosting
• Annual returns.
• Attending conventions
• Certificates and frames
• Postage
• Cost of meetings, i.e. HSE, VEC,AGM's, board meetings, etc
• Research for education, etc
• PR
• Holding of classes and workshops
• Inspection of studios, if necessary
• Printing leaflets, posters etc
• Misc

and some are once off i.e.
• Website development
• Graphic design
• Setting up company
• Phone line setup
• Domain name purchase

I have also personally spent over 3 months researching the information for the website, doing the creative and technical writing and setting up the association. I don’t expect that I’ll be reimbursed for my time. However we can’t expect other professionals to work for nothing.

The association will prepare annual accounts so all members will have full disclosure of how funds are spent. AGM will be held at the Dublin Tattoo Convention in November.

Regarding the inspection of studios.
It is not intended that the Association nor it’s officers/directors will inspect the member studios. Rather the idea is that of self regulation and the signing up to a code of standards and ethics. If however we receive complaints from the public or another member or are made aware of the failure of a member studio to adhere to our standards we will take appropriate action, i.e. employ a suitably qualified person (e.g. microbiologist, occupational hygienist or other infection control specialist) to carry out an inspection.

There is also the possibility/threat that an artist who signs up to ABMAI's Code of Ethics might have to answer for any failure to uphold the said Standards in a courtroom ("So Mr. Tattooist, The Code of Ethics of your Association states that you will not tattoo persons under the age of 18. Can you tell me why my client, baby Jane, age 12 has had two tattoos in your studio"):mad:

So Hellrazor I hope this answers most of your questions. It's all very well to be cynical but, as PiercingDanny says, we have to start somewhere let's try to make this work.

And my final little thought for the day before I go back to my day job for the weekend.

"This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realised that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done ":o

Have a good weekend everyone and I'll answer any more questions you have on Monday. BTW the list of current members is on the website under "Public"

ABMAI wrote: »

There is also the possibility/threat that an artist who signs up to ABMAI's Code of Ethics might have to answer for any failure to uphold the said Standards in a courtroom ("So Mr. Tattooist, The Code of Ethics of your Association states that you will not tattoo persons under the age of 18. Can you tell me why my client, baby Jane, age 12 has had two tattoos in your studio"):mad:

On what grounds would you be bringing them to court pray tell?
On the grounds that they bought a piece of paper from you and then didn't live up to what they said they would?
Without any kind of inspection or verification that they are living up to the standards that you're trying to promote, then the piece of paper is worthless, and the case would be thrown out of court, as you wouldn't have a case as you didn't attempt to verify the standards in the first place.

Oh, and BTW, I've gone through and removed all the unnecessary font, colour and size tags from your post, you don't need to try to make your text seem 'shouty'.

On what grounds would you be bringing them to court pray tell?
On the grounds that they bought a piece of paper from you and then didn't live up to what they said they would?
Without any kind of inspection or verification that they are living up to the standards that you're trying to promote, then the piece of paper is worthless, and the case would be thrown out of court, as you wouldn't have a case as you didn't attempt to verify the standards in the first place.

In the scenerio I described, I was envisaging "Baby Jane" or her parents bringing the tattooist to court. But if ABMAI were bringing the action it would be for breach of contract. The application form which artists must sign in order to become an ABMAI member is, in fact, an enforceable contract and not "a worthless piece of paper"
"

A contract is an agreement entered into voluntarily by two parties or more with the intention of creating a legal obligation, which may have elements in writing, though contracts can be made orally. A contract is a legally enforceable promise or undertaking that something will or will not occur

Oh, and BTW, I've gone through and removed all the unnecessary font, colour and size tags from your post, you don't need to try to make your text seem 'shouty'.

I'm sorry if my use of the formatting tools provided by Boards offends you. I thought that the use of colour, italics, different size fonts, etc. made the messages easier to read. I didn't intend my messages to be "shouty" (I always thought that shouting was indicated by CAPITAL letters).