So what happened at this years Eng Soc Mystery tour?

x43r0 · 17-11-2011 6:11pm

Crosswalk wrote: »

It might be just me forgetting where exactly it was posted but it seems like the Guild posted up the report on their Facebook page and then removed it? Correct me if I'm wrong!

That's the one posted above

Silly Old Wasp · 17-11-2011 6:15pm

Plautus, stay out of Perrott avenue???? are you serious? A fairy like you threatening lads on Boards, wow what a tough bastard ya are. Stay out of Perrott Avenue, I'll be over there to plug you out of you Xbox and back to reality ya silly mong.

My God you sound like a lad stuck in the merry go round realm of Electrical Engineering, LCA here for you and you menial existence: Xbox - Freakscene - bed - Virginity - Pokemon - Xbox..........

PS you seem very strong, jez I'd say your sooooo strong I'm going leave the county now not a mind Perrott Avenue.

Is mise le meas a spooked Pharmacist.

Byron85 · 17-11-2011 6:24pm

Silly Old Wasp wrote: »

Plautus, stay out of Perrott avenue???? are you serious? A fairy like you threatening lads on Boards, wow what a tough bastard ya are. Stay out of Perrott Avenue, I'll be over there to plug you out of you Xbox and back to reality ya silly mong.

My God you sound like a lad stuck in the merry go round realm of Electrical Engineering, LCA here for you and you menial existence: Xbox - Freakscene - bed - Virginity - Pokemon - Xbox..........

PS you seem very strong, jez I'd say your sooooo strong I'm going leave the county now not a mind Perrott Avenue.

Is mise le meas a spooked Pharmacist.

>mod snip<

Silly Old Wasp · 17-11-2011 6:26pm

Schorpio wrote: »

For that money they could probably have hired a better trained security company. No idea what training the guild made it's safety team do, but a full time comapny is going to be the real deal.
That is a brilliant and valid point, why did the Ucc Guild appoint inept people to police the buses rather then contract pofessionals in for the night. The answer, they appoint friends, who are looking for easy money, which comes from the registration fees students must pay at the start of the year. Another example of wasted money which hard working students must try to scrape together to try and get better opportunities. Along with campus radio the safety patrols should be discarded as wasted expenditure and fully registered and trained bouncers should be emplyed instead.

It is an example of the pointless waste of money which has driven people to their knees and out of the country. It has the smell of Fianna Fail type accountability, ie NONE, while everyday people are struggling, friends of people in high office are being rewarded for their mindless following of the failing policies of the UCC guild. With these mindless yes men surrounding them, the UCC guild have forgotten their roots and are no longer in tune with the feelings and needs of the vast majority of the student population. Have a campus wide referendum on the eng soc and see how the majority of people feel, i can guarentee that the society would have the backing of the student population. Lets see democracy in motion and less of the fascist rule currently strangling the ideas, dreams and hopes of the ordinary student.

ReacherCreature · 17-11-2011 6:52pm

Byron85 wrote: »

Translation: "I'm a virgin".

The fact that Wasp thinks that Perrott Avenue is a place of student accommodation is lol-worthy in itself.

confusticated · 17-11-2011 7:23pm

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

It is true that the guild has been looking to get rid of the Eng Soc for a while but it is also true that the Soc was rotten to it's core. The vast majority of the commit members are from Civil Eng with the only non-Civil member being from Energy. So, the Soc was always baised towards one department and neglected the others. And I'm not making this up, the Soc sent out an email this morning saying all the above.

So, the Soc was due an overhaul, just a shame that the majority engineering students miss out the ball just because fo the stupid actions of a small few.

The email had a proposal for the overhaul of the Soc as well though, and it actually looked pretty good, so it's really disappointing that they're not being given the chance to implement this - it was a good bit more detailed than the general "this won't happen again" type of excuses. I reckon if they were allowed to try it it might improve things because they've had a bit of a fright from the guild. If anyone tries to start up a new EngSoc in years to come they won't have that behind them.

Byron85 · 17-11-2011 7:50pm

Why have they been so "raucous" in the past though?

rebel girl 15 · 17-11-2011 8:10pm

Silly Old Wasp, take a month off for personal abuse

As for other comments on the thread, keep them civil, I have no problem infracting and banning other users and locking this thread if people go down the line of abuse

confusticated · 17-11-2011 8:14pm

Byron85 wrote: »

Why have they been so "raucous" in the past though?

Because engineering is 90% lads, and if you put 50 odd lads into a bus and send them off drinking, things are going to get....eh...boisterous.

ReacherCreature · 17-11-2011 8:19pm

confusticated wrote: »

Because engineering is 90% lads, and if you put 50 odd lads into a bus and send them off drinking, things are going to get....eh...boisterous.

You are generalising though. 90 percent of guys won't always drink and even the ones that do won't become borderline lunatics. Takes a bad lot really.

Knifey Spoony · 17-11-2011 8:35pm

confusticated wrote: »

The email had a proposal for the overhaul of the Soc as well though, and it actually looked pretty good, so it's really disappointing that they're not being given the chance to implement this - it was a good bit more detailed than the general "this won't happen again" type of excuses. I reckon if they were allowed to try it it might improve things because they've had a bit of a fright from the guild. If anyone tries to start up a new EngSoc in years to come they won't have that behind them.

It did sound really promising but I can't help feeling that if there was no trouble on this tour that the soc would have just kept going on as it was.

Either way, I know that the wheels are now in motion for some sort of society for Elec and Energy Engineers, similar to what the Process and Chemical Engineers have in place, and that there is a student branch of the IEEE starting up soon enough. So they might help cover some of the academic ground that the Eng Soc would have covered

confusticated · 17-11-2011 8:35pm

I am, definitely, in a big way. But I'm also in Civil, so it's not based on nothing.:pac:

Seriously though I've never seen anything even near that level of behaviour, the breaking glass on people etc. It's a bit of a group mentality I think too, most of these guys on their own I'd say wouldn't dream of doing half that stuff, but just kinda get fired up a bit in a group?

ETA:

Knifey Spoony wrote: »

It did sound really promising but I can't help feeling that if there was no trouble on this tour that the soc would have just kept going on as it was.

Either way, I know that the wheels are now in motion for some sort of society for Elec and Energy Engineers, similar to what the Process and Chemical Engineers have in place, and that there is a student branch of the IEEE starting up soon enough. So they might help cover some of the academic ground that the Eng Soc would have covered

Yeah probably not, but I wonder if they hadn't had the mystery tour at all would the soc just have kept going as it was too? Like the guild wouldn't have shut them down just for not including all of the depts. I'd say. The soc for elecs and energy isn't a bad idea but it's a shame that everyone can't pull together on one society, there aren't all that many of us like. (Not saying it's the elecs/energy students' faults by the way.)

wanderlust1 · 17-11-2011 8:36pm

I've been involved with societies for the past few years and I can safely say it's not the Guild who appoint the Safety Team. The University said last year after fatalities and very serious incidents at mystery tours and balls that either they're not held any more or something is implemented. This is what compromise was reached. I understand what people may say about cost and stuff, I organised a massive ball last year and we were told that we had to pay for the safety team because it was a trial period in Feb/March of 2011. I'll admit, I really didn't see the point at the time and thought it was a crazy expense. But then one of the crew sold afters tickets at the door for us which covered the cost of having them there. If a student got too drunk and where usually, security just would have thrown them out and not cared, a person, who paid for a ticket, would be sobered up by the safety team and possibly allowed back in to enjoy the night like! They took a weight off my mind being honest on a night where I had a lot of other stuff to think about.

Also, the money used to pay these people, who, as it's clear from the report had to put up with an awful, awful lot of **** and abuse comes from the money that the society makes not the student reg fee.

I think it'd be fair to say that employing actual security to come on mystery tours is a completely ridiculous idea. The cost would be outrageous as they cost like 20 quid an hour! (open to correction but it's certainly a lot!) The Safety Team aren't there to police students and get them in trouble, they're there to help their fellow students when the bouncers in a club/hotel don't give two ****s about you anymore. They're there to take care of you or your friend if you get too drunk and get sick or injure yourself. They're there to make sure you don't walk out in front of a car. The way they were treated on the Eng Soc mystery tour was atrocious behaviour and those responsible should be punished accordingly. As for deleting the society - I know from being on committees that at the end of the day, the committee take responsibilty for all events, for anything financial, and for their members. While they may have sent in a proposal to be kept around, clearly the Guild felt they weren't going to be able to implement their ideas. It's unfortunate but they got themselves into the situation.

Schorpio · 17-11-2011 9:28pm

wanderlust1 wrote: »

I think it'd be fair to say that employing actual security to come on mystery tours is a completely ridiculous idea. The cost would be outrageous as they cost like 20 quid an hour! (open to correction but it's certainly a lot!) The Safety Team aren't there to police students and get them in trouble, they're there to help their fellow students when the bouncers in a club/hotel don't give two ****s about you anymore.

Like I said before - absolutely no idea how much independent security costs, if I'd also imagine it wouldn't be far off €20/hour. So, that would mean that they could have employed 8 or 9 independent security personnel for their €1000. There has been a frosty relationship between the guild and EngSoc for a few years now and this years mystery tour couldn't be held on the day it was originally intended for because the safety team weren't available on the night. All I'm saying is that there was hostility towards the safety team before anyone got on any bus and the drink is just fuel to the fire. Independent security would likely be big, trained men. They wouldn't have been treated like the safety team was. Also, the place in Mallow (where the tour went) seemed to have no in-house security whatsoever.

I think the individuals should be held accountable. Like previous posters said - the society seemed to have some good ideas which will go to waste. I wasn't on last year's mystery tour, but from what I heard it sounded worse and there was no safety team to witness it and write a report.

This was also probably going to be the rowdiest event of the whole year. The ball was planned to be in Rochestown and I know the security there during ball season is tough as nails. After that there are no really major EngSoc social events. Miss Engineering was cancelled last year and last year's society organised Safe Pass courses and AutoCAD seminars (which were fantastic ideas imo). I get the impression that the guild jumped on the opportunity to disband the society, which is a shame.

calnand · 17-11-2011 10:56pm

Schorpio wrote: »

last year's society organised Safe Pass courses and AutoCAD seminars (which were fantastic ideas imo). I get the impression that the guild jumped on the opportunity to disband the society, which is a shame.

I was hoping to do the safepass and autoCAD seminar this year but thats gone out the window, It would be better imo that there are separate societies for engineering as at the moment it covers very different courses, like for instance Architecture which im in is thrown into the society but i can say that no architect has ever been to a agm, we have our own society and run our own events and lectures. we had our own mystery tour a while back and we didnt even have a safety team. I might make a motion to the student council that the different courses have their own societies. its only an idea and can't hurt to bring towards the council meeting on wednesday.

Plautus · 17-11-2011 11:09pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

The fact that Wasp thinks that Perrott Avenue is a place of student accommodation is lol-worthy in itself.

Well, to be fair, the occupants are untidy and there's bottles of wines to be had from time to time. It might breed confusion :P

I get the impression that the guild jumped on the opportunity to disband the society, which is a shame.

The guild have paymasters too who don't like being embarrassed. Namely the University's Governing Body. Only they would have to find the situation untenable for swift action to be demanded.

There's a question of insulating from the rot. You don't want to be seen as soft on these things and then bound over to cancel all societies' mystery tours.

I think the individuals should be held accountable.

That's what it comes down to for me. I would have liked to see charges pressed at the scene if that's what the Gardai were offering to do. Hopefully we get more clarity about what investigations and disciplinary procedures are in train shortly.

D-Generate · 18-11-2011 12:35am

Who let those Safety Officers in to an institute of higher education when they lack basic knowledge of grammar and spelling? I am actually appalled at the quality of writing in a paper that they are terming a report. It really illustrates how poor education is in Ireland that not one author had a rudimentary grasp of the correct use of English syntax. Either they are not taking the matter seriously enough to necessitate a review of the report before submission or else they are not intelligent enough in my eyes to be in university.

The Guild haven't been fans of Eng Soc since at least when I was in 2nd or 3rd year which was around 2006/2007. From memory, the elections for Eng Soc and class presidents were held outside the Guild system and conducted as an internal affair. When did Eng Soc become incorporated as part of the Guild system? I was fairly sure it existed outside that sphere.

Also, are committee elections not just a rotation between Civil and Elec every second year? Sure the system is corrupt but it is a rotating corrupt system! Can't say I had any issue with it but then again Eng Soc paid for many boozing sessions when I was in final year. It was just a refund of excess money that I paid for Ball Tickets/Eng Cup etc through the years, an elaborate Ponzi scheme that took you 4 years to redeem!

I must say that the behaviour as per that report is animalistic at best and although I have many fond memories of rowdy sessions, there was never pushing of girls or major Garda involvement. Anyone who was sexually harassing a Safety Officer should have charges pressed against them.

Schorpio · 18-11-2011 2:26am

D-Generate wrote: »

The Guild haven't been fans of Eng Soc since at least when I was in 2nd or 3rd year which was around 2006/2007. From memory, the elections for Eng Soc and class presidents were held outside the Guild system and conducted as an internal affair. When did Eng Soc become incorporated as part of the Guild system? I was fairly sure it existed outside that sphere.

That happened at the start of last year. I don't know the exact details but I think the guild decided they weren't going to tolerate that carry on anymore and threatened to pull funding (even though Eng Soc apparently demanded much less guild funding than most other societies). Long story short, the original 2010 society members were booted and elections reopened (original members were allowed to put themselves forward). The whole thing was overseen by a guild rep. There was also a guild rep at this years elections.

JSK 252 · 19-11-2011 10:07pm

Silly Old Wasp wrote: »

The UCC guild, come a Wednesday night nothing better to do. So they decide to act the maggot trying to police students on a mystery tour. Like if they want to charge the Eng Soc €1,600 to baby sit for a night you should expect a little work to be done. If ye didn't immerse yourselves in that cocoon of self praise and false notions all harbored in the HUB. Ye would know that over policing will only result in a strike back of the victims of this "Gestapo" like treatment.

A serious question which must be asked is have any of these self coined members of the "safety team" training or completed courses in private security, aka a PSA licence obtained via completing a Fetac level 4 course. As the "Safety team" may not be Night club or door men but they still act in the area and manner of policing students the same way a bouncer in night club does. This unregulated and unsafe practice of unqualified, part time ''safety officers'' is a miss use of the power the students union has been entrusted with by students who had the misguided idea that only people who have not only the ability to carry out their functions but also the training would be placed in positions of power. The practice of placing inadequate, untrained people in an environment that security officers, such as those working in night clubs, require hours of training in must be discontinued until proper accountability and training is put in place.

A series lack of accountability has occurred with regards to the "safety teams" ill-informed and unqualified actions taking on the night in question. Just like the tear away English Army personnel who initiated the concentration camps in the Boer war, the guild have followed in their menial and brutish ways resulting in organised chaos.

Just one other point further illustrating the lack of training and correct decision making being made, Twice in the report the "safety team" and bus drivers continued with over crowded and unsafe conditions on the bus.

"When **** came back
he said that we were about four people over capacity, but **** agreed to drive on"

Just one example of the lack of negligence displayed by the "safety team"

To the Eng Soc fight the good fight,

Member of the Pharmacy soc

Right first off Im a member of the pharmacy society committee this year and all I can say is that Id be extremely surprised if the above post was from a committee member. Its obviously somebody pretending to be a pharmacy student who is acting the bollox. We completely condemn the absolute barbaric behaviour of the engineering mystery tour and from last years antics in Macroom while I wasnt on the committee last year, there was no way we were ever going to go with them when we organised our own mystery tour to Kinsale last month.

The engineering society got what they deserved. You have to pay for the consequences of your actions lads!

scriba · 20-11-2011 12:39am

Plautus wrote: »

Well, to be fair, the occupants are untidy and there's bottles of wines to be had from time to time. It might breed confusion :P

The odd time...

Aodan83 · 20-11-2011 5:59pm

confusticated wrote: »

Because engineering is 90% lads, and if you put 50 odd lads into a bus and send them off drinking, things are going to get....eh...boisterous.

I agree with this to a point, but there is really no excuse for some of the sh1t that went on on that tour.
The report also mentions that one of the soc reps on the bus became confrontational when the bus was stopped. I have been on 2 mystery tours as a committee member. As far as I'm concerned the committee members should be working with the safety team to diffuse the situation.
I understand that the members of the safety would have quite tired by the time the Gardaí showed up at the stopped bus as well, but I really don't think they should have allowed the more aggressive students to get away with their actions so easily.

keepkeyyellow · 21-11-2011 11:50am

If this behaviour was happening in a nightclub they'd be kicked out within 5 minutes, however the Safety Team have to make sure that everyone gets home and safe too.

If they safety team wasn't there the bus driver would have stopped the bus anyway and more than likely call the guards.

confusticated · 21-11-2011 2:17pm

Aodan83 wrote: »

I agree with this to a point, but there is really no excuse for some of the sh1t that went on on that tour.
The report also mentions that one of the soc reps on the bus became confrontational when the bus was stopped. I have been on 2 mystery tours as a committee member. As far as I'm concerned the committee members should be working with the safety team to diffuse the situation.
I understand that the members of the safety would have quite tired by the time the Gardaí showed up at the stopped bus as well, but I really don't think they should have allowed the more aggressive students to get away with their actions so easily.

I agree that the stuff that went on was unacceptable. I wasn't talkiing about this year's, I was replying to this:

Byron85 wrote: »

Why have they been so "raucous" in the past though?

Also the EngSoc did say on facebook that the description of what the committee member in the report was wearing doesn't match any of the committee. This might not be true, but it's possible the safety team member was mistaken.

I think personally (this would not go down well with any committee I'm sure!) that the committee responsible for a mystery tour should stay sober on it. At least some of them. I wouldn't be at all comfortable being responsible for hundreds of people and being drunk at the time. Also I think that the engineers might have taken better to being disciplined, for want of a better word, by engineering students rather than people from the guild, but there's obviously no way of testing that!

And I think that the individuals responsible should be held accountable, not all engineering students. I know the soc catered more to civils so I'm a little biased, but running Autocad courses etc was a really good idea, because it's not taught in the depth it's needed at any stage, and it's a shame that won't be available to current third years (and possibly future ones).

EyeSight · 21-11-2011 8:44pm

while i 100% agree with everyone in condemning the trouble makers, from being on mystery tours this year i feel the safety team can be a little dramatic.

to me, most of them came across as power hungry. they would jump on any little thing people did, and would lecture people as if they were your parents. frankly, i think they just provoke confrontation from my experiences.....

in saying that i'm surprised no punishments are being handed out to the individuals and it's pretty obvious that the engineers will just go to other mystery tours instead so i don't see what has been achieved

Hellno7 · 23-11-2011 4:36pm

tmc86 wrote: »

This report makes me glad that I've finished UCC and don't have to mix with such scumbags.

Maybe fees aren't such a bad idea if they prevent scum like this going to college, those who were smashing glasses off people and groping team members deserve to have charges pressed or failing that be expelled from the college.

I remember we went on a comm mystery tour to Mallow in first/second year and it was shut down after 2/3 hours people smashing the place, doing coke in the bathroom and fighting.

Luckily my friend lives locally so 4 of us ended up going back there and staying the night not a hope were we going to get a bus back in with animals

I love your assumption that because of the lack of fees the people involved in the disgusting behaviour were from a working class background, or at least one that isn't affluent enough to afford third level education.

Ive spent plenty of time around the eng. students in UCC, and from my experience the students from more "privileged" backgrounds can be far far worse a lot of time as they feel like UCC is their territory, they can act just as much like animals i can assure you.

I would no have problem acknowledging the validity of your point if these students were named and shamed (as i beleive they should be), and action taken against them (again as i beleive it should), but you clearly have no more of an idea of exactly who is responsible than i do, yet you jump to the conclusion they are from a lower social class, shame on you!!!

flo8s967qjh0nd · 23-11-2011 7:35pm

From reading the reports of the night, it is clear that the Eng Soc got what they deserved. Can't allow a society affiliated with UCC to show such total disregard and inability to organise a safe, non-criminal night out.

Clearly it wasn't all of the students on the tour and not just a particular social class as some posters have suggested, but ultimately it is the responsibility of the society to ensure the event goes off without dragging the good name of UCC into the gutter. Eng Soc have proven incapable of doing this so they are gone.

Those responsible should be charged and certainly penalised by the university. I'm sick of an attitude that being in university is not real-life and there are not real consequences for your actions.

yenom · 24-11-2011 1:15am

MOD SNIP

Less of the language please!

raah! · 25-11-2011 2:04am

Outrageous! An utter lack of negligence!

BCox · 25-11-2011 3:43pm

Well, having made the cover of the Student Express this week, this story has successfully made its way to the cover of the Evening Echo. The UCC heads talk of the the Engineering Society bringing the university into disrepute, which it undoubtedly has, but from what I've read people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

If the university doesn't want any more attention for the behaviour of its students then why are they are letting their own paper publish hyperbolic stories about an event that happened almost a month ago? I have no doubt that the publication in the Express led to the Echo covering the story. It seems as though we are really flogging a dead horse.

Having been a student of UCC and an attendeee of many Mystery Tours, I can honestly say that the report paints a pretty standard picture of student excess in Ireland. Any number of events would produce similar reports, given the same attention to detail. I am in no way saying that this behaviour is normal or acceptable. I'm just saying that any typical night out in a student environment would result in indecent exposure, lewd behaviour, aggression and fighting. How many of you remember a night outside Hillbillies where none of the above have occured?

In summary, I feel the Engineering Society are suffering due to years and years of student excess. Not just Engineering students but the whole student population. UCC are clearly making an example of them. As for the report, the guild should never have published the report and the fact that they did it so openly on facebook shows a serious lack of common sense. This should have always been a behind-closed-doors situation. The open publication of the report and the clear over-reaction to it now result in yet more bad publicity for UCC, in the form of todays Echo frontpage.

Schorpio · 25-11-2011 4:57pm

Probably the only new interesting part of the report in the Echo...

"The owner of the bar involved confirmed that one student was treated by medics after being hit near the eye by a bottle - but added that there had been no other incidents on the night. The bar owner said that the students' behaviour was "exemplary" and they would be welcome back in the bar."

A lot of the story is just quotes from the report. Interestingly they left out the parts of the report which told of how a bus left even though members in charge knew it was over capacity and how a bus driver recklessly braked suddenly from "high speed" in order to control people on the bus.

So what happened at this years Eng Soc Mystery tour?

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