Inferno Ranbat Survey

Azza · 09-12-2009 2:57am #1

Hi guys as I said to some of you at the last Ranbat I was going to be taking a survey on your thoughts on the current structure (pricing, rules etc) of the Inferno Ranbat. Since this a community driven event all your opinions carry equal weight (unless you play Guile) So in the interests of fairness and giving me the excuse to blame everything on democracy in the event anything goes wrong let us begin.

So a couple of things up for discussion.

First up, the date of the next Ranbat.
Ideally I would want to run it in late January but as I'm off on holiday from around the 17th of January for two weeks thats not going to be possible. Leaving one of three choices, someone else host the event, or I can host one on any of the following dates, the 2nd, the 9th or possibly the 16th of January or leave it till a Saturday in February. Just briefly state your preference.

Secondly the entry fee and prize pot.
Currently at €15.00, €10.00 of which goes to the prize pot the other €5.00 going to paying for console rental. Would you guys like to see this stay the same, drop to €10.00 as some people previously suggested or change to some other figure (lower, higher or in between). Also what is your current preference for the percentage of splitting the pot among the winners and how many people should get a cut. Or also if you feel Dr Doom should simply pay for everything just say so

Thirdly the rules and tournament format.
These currently are as follows.

Format: Single set group stages, followed by best of 3 sets double elimination. Each set is best of 3 rounds.

Rules:
All characters allowed.
In game button binding allowed.
Deliberate use of turbo will result in instant disqualification from the tournament.
Double blind select available if requested to ensure no counter picking.
Coin toss to be used if needed to decide preferred side select.
Consistent disruptive behavior can result in disqualification.
Pausing the game will forfeit the round being played, unless both players agree to restart. In the event of a dispute, one of the organizers will resolve the matter. His decision is final.

2 New rules I will be putting forward for consideration.

Console choice.
If players can not agree on which console to play on a coin is tossed and the winner gets to choose their console of choice. If these players meet again then later on in the or in future tournaments the winner of the orginal coin toss is obligated to allow his opponent to choose his console of choice and the decision alternates between the two from there on in.

Character changing during double elimination rounds.
Your only allowed change character when you loose a set. Winners must keep their character.

Anyway are you happy with this format and rules or is there anything you would like to see changed.

General thoughts?
Also just to get generally feed back or if you want to discuss anything not covered with the above topics. Is there anything you want to see at future events (bar banning Guile of course) or is any area you feel could be improved on.

Finally I'm looking for a volunteer to help me run the ranbats in future. Not because I feel I can't handle it, but I want a bit of free time to concentrate on playing rather than playing my matches cold.

Retr0gamer · 09-12-2009 3:05am

Dan Mirror matches instead of coin tosses :P

I'm happy with all the rules as well as the price. Can't commit to a date for the next tournament though.

K.O.Kiki · 09-12-2009 3:26am

9th January for next RanBat.
And €10 entry.
I'm certain someone can do the maths to show how many machines we need for X hrs and still have a decent payout. Unless I'm wrong, then keep all as-is.

Dreddybajs · 09-12-2009 3:27am

Happy with the rules and price/prize structure, and those new rules sound fine to me. Date-wise I think waiting til at least the 9th is a good idea (new years' celebrations might still be hanging over people on the 2nd :pac:), but honestly I'll go for whatever date, it doesn't matter much to me as I live so close.

edit: Also, blag posted in the other thread that he'd be up for giving you a hand next time. If he's unavailable/not up for it I'm happy to help out.

bush · 09-12-2009 10:21am

I vote for the 9th and keep the pricing structure as it is. Maybe make the group matches best of 3 games? Or more rounds per game?

Kirby · 09-12-2009 10:26am

Happy with it as it is to be honest. A couple of suggestions though.

I do think more than one person should organise though. Azza got no time for casuals. Second person seems like a good idea.

I like the 15 euro pricing. We only have these things every six week or so. 15 quid isn't alot, and leaves a good prize fund.

Regarding the split, personally I would prefer it to be 60, 25, 15. I know its a bit more of a maths headache, but to me it signifies a fairer divy up.

It's alot fairer for the group matches to be best of 3 matches. We didn't do it last time due to time. That was a good decision. But if we can somehow get the groups best of 3, it will be alot fairer for those who are on the edge of qualifying everytime and keep missing out. Gives people a better chance to show their skill. And its more matches, which is always good.

I'm going to be in florida for most of January so I don't think I'll be able to make the next one....which is a shame. I've been to the last 3 so it will break my streak! 5th, 3rd, 4th. Logic would dictate I can be the only winner this time!

Still, suppose I'll be swapping one Inferno for another!

chopperbyrne · 09-12-2009 10:51am

I will happily help out with the organising.

The pricing structure is fine.

Having extra matches in the group stages would be great in an ideal world, but it takes us until about six to get the comp finished as is. The time taken for all those extra games adds up fast.

Doctor DooM · 09-12-2009 11:05am

I'm in bed sick off work so I will try and make this brief so I can go back to sleep.

Azza wrote: »

Hi guys as I said to some of you at the last Ranbat I was going to be taking a survey on your thoughts on the current structure (pricing, rules etc) of the Inferno Ranbat. Since this a community driven event all your opinions carry equal weight (unless you play Guile) So in the interests of fairness and giving me the excuse to blame everything on democracy in the event anything goes wrong let us begin.

Agreed. I would take it as a given that a Guile players opinion is worth double, naturally.

Azza wrote: »

First up, the date of the next Ranbat.
Ideally I would want to run it in late January but as I'm off on holiday from around the 17th of January for two weeks thats not going to be possible. Leaving one of three choices, someone else host the event, or I can host one on any of the following dates, the 2nd, the 9th or possibly the 16th of January or leave it till a Saturday in February. Just briefly state your preference.

Lets go with 9th, IMO, because you do need someone to help as you're a single point of failure but let them get used to running one WITH you first.

Azza wrote: »

Secondly the entry fee and prize pot.
Currently at €15.00, €10.00 of which goes to the prize pot the other €5.00 going to paying for console rental. Would you guys like to see this stay the same, drop to €10.00 as some people previously suggested or change to some other figure (lower, higher or in between). Also what is your current preference for the percentage of splitting the pot among the winners and how many people should get a cut. Or also if you feel Dr Doom should simply pay for everything just say so

I am happy with it at 15 tbh. I think people are missing that the price point also brings the opportunity to play people who you'd never normally get to play. I can't see any but the most dedicated people from the north coming down for a 50% smaller pot (which it would be at 10).

Azza wrote: »

Thirdly the rules and tournament format.
These currently are as follows.

Format: Single set group stages, followed by best of 3 sets double elimination. Each set is best of 3 rounds.

Rules:
All characters allowed.
In game button binding allowed.
Deliberate use of turbo will result in instant disqualification from the tournament.
Double blind select available if requested to ensure no counter picking.
Coin toss to be used if needed to decide preferred side select.
Consistent disruptive behavior can result in disqualification.
Pausing the game will forfeit the round being played, unless both players agree to restart. In the event of a dispute, one of the organizers will resolve the matter. His decision is final.

2 New rules I will be putting forward for consideration.

Console choice.
If players can not agree on which console to play on a coin is tossed and the winner gets to choose their console of choice. If these players meet again then later on in the or in future tournaments the winner of the orginal coin toss is obligated to allow his opponent to choose his console of choice and the decision alternates between the two from there on in.

Character changing during double elimination rounds.
Your only allowed change character when you loose a set. Winners must keep their character.

Anyway are you happy with this format and rules or is there anything you would like to see changed.

Twice on Saturday the person I was playing with was interfered wth- not on purpose or anything, but it did happen- considering it's a public place, it might be worth thinking about what happens when there's "outside interference", to borrow the wrestling term.

Azza wrote: »

General thoughts?
Also just to get generally feed back or if you want to discuss anything not covered with the above topics. Is there anything you want to see at future events (bar banning Guile of course) or is any area you feel could be improved on.

Finally I'm looking for a volunteer to help me run the ranbats in future. Not because I feel I can't handle it, but I want a bit of free time to concentrate on playing rather than playing my matches cold.

I could do with a hand with filming too. Watching the camera, and maybe retrieving information about who's playing when (I've had to gess which Bison/ Ryu is which lots of times from play style!). I also think I am missing good matches because I've been fighting.

I know this isn't anything you have to worry about but it looks like the thread to put it out there in.

time permitting I would also like best of 3 sets in the groups but I understand there's time problems.

Leprekaun · 09-12-2009 11:59am

After some thought, I think the pricing is alright. Like many said, its done every once in a while so I guess its alright.

I'd be willing to run the next tournament but I'd have to confirm at a slightly later date. I have all the gear ready here on my PC so just a matter of printing another set of sheets and I've made some notes on how to improve with running it (based on the tournament that Azza and I managed).

I'll have a look at the EVO ruleset as well to understand the story with the rules. I agree though that more people are needed for the organisational part due to the number of machines the tournament is run on (average of 4-5) so with the group stage in particular, it'd definitely be better if perhaps 1 person from each group take down the scores of all the games of their group.

One thing though is that I have a condition to managing it, it must be called "Inferno Ranbat without gay characters like Sagat"

L31mr0d · 09-12-2009 12:55pm

Azza wrote: »

Character changing during double elimination rounds.
Your only allowed change character when you loose a set. Winners must keep their character.

Not that it would impact me in anyway

but what is the reasoning behind this recommendation?

chopperbyrne · 09-12-2009 12:58pm

L31mr0d wrote: »

Not that it would impact me in anyway but what is the reasoning behind this recommendation?

It avoids counter picking a counter pick.

If you lose, you can change to a character that you think might give you a better chance of winning, but then the other player who won could just wait for you to pick and counter-pick you.

All major tournaments use this rule.

bush · 09-12-2009 1:02pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It avoids counter picking a counter pick.

If you lose, you can change to a character that you think might give you a better chance of winning, but then the other player who won could just wait for you to pick and counter-pick you.

All major tournaments use this rule.

I thought we used this rule already anyway?

chopperbyrne · 09-12-2009 1:03pm

So did I.

Edit: Azza was listing the current rules and looking for feedback it appears.

D4RK ONION · 09-12-2009 1:10pm

[QUOTE=Leprekaun;63411420One thing though is that I have a condition to managing it, it must be called "Inferno Ranbat without gay characters like Sagat"[/QUOTE]

I'd be extremely concerned with any characters getting banned. IMO if you're good enough, you can deal with anyone's character.

L31mr0d · 09-12-2009 1:11pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

If you lose, you can change to a character that you think might give you a better chance of winning, but then the other player who won could just wait for you to pick and counter-pick you.

It just seems to favour punishing the winner. Surely neither the loser or the winner should be allowed to counter pick.

I mean surely the character selection should always be blind to rule out counter picking entirely. If the winner wants to switch to a different character I don't understand why they are punished and forced to stick with the one they picked first?

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Edit: Azza was listing the current rules and looking for feedback it appears.

Well he said it was a new rule so I'm guessing it hasn't been officially enforced at the ranbats yet.

A-Trak · 09-12-2009 1:18pm

bush wrote: »

I vote for the 9th and keep the pricing structure as it is. Maybe make the group matches best of 3 games? Or more rounds per game?

+1 to all this.

I'd be for adding keeping the group matches at one match, but each match is best of 5 rounds.
I know there's the argument that it would add extra time to the tourney, but realistically it would add only a couple of minutes to each groups running time.

Once groups are drawn, and people know who are in their group, the group stages generally move along at a brisk pace. The bottlenecks and delays tend to occur before and after groups.

Pricing is fine by me, I think you get a lot for your €15.

I'd be for another comp on the 9th January, one a month is certainly not overkill in my view.

Doctor DooM · 09-12-2009 1:19pm

D4RK ONION wrote: »

I'd be extremely concerned with any characters getting banned. IMO if you're good enough, you can deal with anyone's character.

It's a running joke. Much like Terry using anyone other than Sagat.

(that was an example of the running joke)

D4RK ONION · 09-12-2009 1:51pm

Whoops! I know about Top Tier Terry, never saw that one before though

Jim · 09-12-2009 2:29pm

To me the price is slightly too high with the view of getting more/new players into the tournament. I know at least 4 people I can think of off hand who would come if it was cheaper, and probably more than that if I started asking around. Even for me atm €15 is kinda pushing it in terms of my own finances. Its just a pity we have to pay for the consoles etc.

I think €12 would be a nice compromise, but it seems most people are fine with the current price. Not a big deal as we got quite an impressive turnout last Saturday, but I'd just like to see more people getting involved. (although I do tell these people to get their asses to the casuals if they can't afford the tournaments).

Apart from that I'm pretty happy with everything else in the tournament.

[Edit] I'd also like if the group stages were best of 3 games. This is problematic with time I know but I think it would just make for a much better tournament. To pay €15 for 3, maybe 4 competitive games isn't great imo.[/Edit]

Cunny-Funt · 09-12-2009 3:01pm

Firstly, thanks to Azza he puts a lot of work into this stuff.

I'll be brief, I would much rather best of 3 for all games (unless we have like crazy numbers like 50+)

Maybe someone else helping out azza can speed things up. I mean there must be some other way to speed things up so as to not have to sacrifice letting people play more than one game to decide the out come.

I'd be far far happier with the price if we could have this. But if we must keep the current way in regards to sets, I'd be leaning more towards reducing the price.

chopperbyrne · 09-12-2009 3:04pm

If we were to have best of three in the group stages, then it would mean starting earlier. One o'clock at the very latest.

Do people want to get up even earlier than they already have to? What about the people who are coming half way across the country by bus who just can't make it that early?

Everyone would like to have more games in the group stages, but logistically, it's unlikely to happen.

bush · 09-12-2009 3:50pm

I think the actual time it takes to play the groups isnt that long at all. The group I was in was finished really fast. Im not sure why other groups were still playing long after ours had finished though.
Its like a trak said theres a delay before and after the groups. Maybe using a laptop would help this, I dunno cos ive no idea how the groups are organized.
I think the tournaments are getting quicker every time though, this one went fairly fast in my opinion.
Maybe we could try best of 3 matches for the next one, just to see how it goes.

Kirby · 09-12-2009 3:54pm

Couple of things.

An extra few rounds in the group stages would take about an extra five minutes. Maybe ten minutes if they are close matches. It's not alot.

The time is eaten up by the draw....not the games. People weren't writing down the results after each game in the groups and many groups didn't record the rounds either. THIS is what causes delays because Azza was forced to figure out who won what.

It wouldn't be that hard to fit more games in to keep everyone happy. We just need to streamline the draw a little bit. And to be fair, its gotten quicker every time we have done it. It took an hour to sort out the first draw at Inferno 3. This time, the group stages were drawn in about 10 minutes. Much better. We have loads of time tbh.

Azza · 09-12-2009 3:58pm

We could try changing the rounds but I think we are talking at least an hour to an hour and half of additional play time for the tournament if do change the groups to best of 3 sets. We would really need to start before 2:00pm with no waiting for late arrivals as when starts approaching 7:00pm to 8:00pm people have to get buses.

Also just to add my own voice I'm obviously pretty much in favor of the current pricing structure and format of the tournaments.

D4RK ONION · 09-12-2009 4:07pm

I think we should have the tournament in Clare. You all know it makes sense
>_>
<_<

fake_roogle · 09-12-2009 4:10pm

Fine with everything as it is, not too bothered whether people want groups to be one or bo3 sets.

I can do the 2nd and the 16th onwards, 9th is out of the question for me as I have an exam that morning (yeah, I have an exam on Saturday. :-/)

Kirby · 09-12-2009 4:14pm

fake_roogle wrote: »

I can do the 2nd and the 16th onwards, 9th is out of the question for me as I have an exam that morning (yeah, I have an exam on Saturday. :-/)

Ouch. Do these eggheads who decide to host an exam on a saturday not understand that this is official street fighter day?

Still, I can just picture in the middle of an exam somebody shouting out "FADC Ultra!!!!"

Ry · 09-12-2009 4:16pm

I'd say price is ok if group stages are best of 3 sets. This would allow people to change to a secondary character or whatever if they wanted.

Starting earlier wouldn't be all that bad. We've all had to be somewhere early before and made it. IF the numbers are too great then maybe do best of 7 rounds as at least that would let people have a good stint but in fairness best of 3 is more akin to tournament' yonder

. A single best of 3 round fight is way too little for the price at 15 in my opinion.

Otherwise rules are good and fair play to you Azza for running the last one which went very smoothly.

Retr0gamer · 09-12-2009 4:38pm

I think you should have each group around one machine and give them a sheet of paper to record the results. Would stop the confusion of having one person having to record every game.

chopperbyrne · 09-12-2009 4:41pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think you should have each group around one machine and give them a sheet of paper to record the results. Would stop the confusion of having one person having to record every game.

That's what was done, but people didn't record them, or didn't record them properly.

A-Trak · 09-12-2009 4:49pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Everyone would like to have more games in the group stages, but logistically, it's unlikely to happen.

Ok so, why not then trial it at the next tourney as bush suggests.
And as a trial we could keep it one set per group matches as it currently is, yet make it best of 5 rounds rather then best of three that it currently is?

This would only be a marginal increase timewise, and would give more play time to all.

It would then give a good indicator as to whether best of 3 sets would be viable timewise for the next tourney.

Inferno Ranbat Survey

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