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Stockbroking_ Is it as glamorous as in the movies.

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  • 29-03-2009 3:55pm
    #1
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭


    I was looking at stockbroking as a possible career!!!!!!

    I love the stockmarket nd investing,etc.

    just like to no about: Pay/ working conditions/ standard working week etc..any info...

    thanks:)


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    #2
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    Depends... what area are you looking to get into? What are you doing in college (I assume you're in college)?

    I don't think that students in Ireland really know what "stockbroking" actually is and tend to call "investment banking" stockbroking - I know that I didn't know the correct meaning of the term when I was in 1st / 2nd year in college and thought that traders were stockbrokers. Whereas I suppose it's really sales traders who are traditional "stockbrokers".

    There are lots of areas in investment banking such as trading (loads of different types of traders - commodities, equities, fixed income, futures...) sales trading, asset management, mergers & acquisitions / corporate finance, wealth management, private equity / venture capital, operations...

    A lot of the Irish stockbrokers are essentially investment banks (without taking deposits or giving loans) and the Irish banks have operations in most of the investment banking areas


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    #3
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    im doing a business degree!!!!!!!1st year......

    i like the stock market, and have traded some uk stocks over the last year....i rhink i would like the work involved. i realise your day would start at 7 till about 6 which is a big downside.is there any kind of broker that doesnt work these hours????????


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    #4
    Idu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭Idu


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    i realise your day would start at 7 till about 6 which is a big downside.is there any kind of broker that doesnt work these hours????????

    Not saying your lazy but if you're not happy to work these hours then there's no point even trying to get involved


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    #5
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    if i had to, i would work these hours, its just it doesnt leave much time for anything else..........i do want to get into a job like stockbroking as it seems like a job i would enjoy/like,,


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    #6
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    im doing a business degree!!!!!!!1st year......

    i like the stock market, and have traded some uk stocks over the last year....i rhink i would like the work involved. i realise your day would start at 7 till about 6 which is a big downside.is there any kind of broker that doesnt work these hours????????

    lol, i wish I has those hours. Seriously though, we work about 7.30 - 8.30 standard and at least two days a week you're in til ten and usually 2 weekends a month on average.

    It takes up 80% of your time but if you can manage your time well, you still have time for football, women, boozing, gym etc etc.

    BUt bear this in mind when you start looking. Also, in London, the hours are generally longer. My cousin works about 80-90 hours a week standard. The hours decrease as you get more experienced though - generally the first 2 years are the worst.

    best of luck - you'll know if it's for you by the time you finsih college. Just dont expect easy money !

    EDIT - there's not many other jobs where you earn €50k plus at 22/23 years old.


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    #7
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    jesus thats unreal long.......am, do you get any holidays during the year apart from when the markets close??????


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    #8
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Just coming on from what Pocketdooz said.... pay isn't that great.

    80-90 hours a week = say 85 on average
    times 52 weeks
    equals 4,420 hours a year

    €50,000/4,420 = 11.31ph


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    #9
    DJDC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭DJDC


    Most people mix up stockbroking and trading. The first thing you have to decide is which one suits your personalities. Are you really good at maths or are you are a really good salesman? If you do want to become a stockbroker then London firms like ICAP are the best option. But like every good graduate job nowadays due an oversupply of graduates expect some serious competition.


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    #10
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    Hanley wrote: »
    Just coming on from what Pocketdooz said.... pay isn't that great.

    80-90 hours a week = say 85 on average
    times 52 weeks
    equals 4,420 hours a year

    €50,000/4,420 = 11.31ph



    ya but as far as i no, its the bonuses that make the job so attractive......


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    #11
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    DJDC wrote: »
    Most people mix up stockbroking and trading.

    Bang on!

    Basically it sounds like you're interested in trading, I was exactly the same from the age of 16 and am working in the investment banking industry now.

    With regard to trading, you'd generally have 12/13 hour days 5 days a week with no lunch break. The exact hours worked depend on what you're trading and what market it's on. Investment banking (Corporate Finance / M&A) in London is well regarded with having the worst hours by far - easily 100 hours per week!

    London is (was) the place to be, I guess it still is but obviously the amount of opportunities for (Irish) grads has diminished MASSIVELY! London starts grads on say 2.5 to 3 times more than you'd get here but the jobs are far more competitive and the interviews are extremely hard, it's also a far more hire and fire culture than Dublin.

    It's a tough area to get into at graduate level normally but in the current climate but near impossible. Generally I would have said that you're best bet is probably to start trading your own account but that is VERY RISKY in the current economic climate with the crazy volatility in international markets, particularly the ISEQ! You need something to stand out from the crowd when going for these jobs.

    Checkout IBtalk - very good forum there. Feel free to PM me with any questions or to know about specific salaries or about other areas of investment banking.


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    #12
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #13
    damnyanks
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭damnyanks


    No its not as glamerous as the movies. You get in for 7 usually - dead busy till about 11:30. Spend a few hours following up a paper work. Things pick up after lunch. Then come 6 more paper work. There is always a buzz and its definitely a better place to work than most. (But this is when you compare it to the movies!)

    You'll have a few different types of entities that exist.

    Asset management type business units. This could range from a fund AIB manage to someone like IBM investing their own personal money. This type of group will hold positions (usually long - as in they own the product).

    Brokers - they usually just match counter parties up. The majority of the bigger players in this side are gone almost all electronic. Person A at Bank A will want 300 3month bonds of Dunnes Stores the broker will find this guy what he wants or already have it on his books. Pure middleman.

    Investment bank - called the sell side. They really just originate and create markets on different products. They deal in the secondary market in a big way but for the most part no bank really wants to rely on that. (Too risky) They grew a variety of different products over the last few years but now that everything has gone bad they are pulling out of a lot of the different areas.

    Hedge fund - this is where real trading happens. They just take positions to make money and nothing else. For instance a lot of investment banks had internal hedge funds which were later split up from the company so they didnt pull everyone down with them!

    Treasury desks - desks inside of large companies which manage the companies cash , fx and interest rate exposures.

    Money you get depends on the type of company and the type of product you are involved in. The more basic the product (Cash anything, short term anything) will usually gain you very little (unless you are at a hedge fund and that's your strategy / market). It's also a bad time to really gauge how earning will be. I only know from an investment bank perspective that this year was poor in comparison to other years. I was working in one of the major investment banks who came through the credit crunch exceptionally well. Even hten juniors were getting no more than 100% of their salary as a bonus. Might sound ok - 50% goes to tax man though.


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    #14
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    QUOTE - there's not many other jobs where you earn €50k plus at 22/23 years old.


    like what?????????????????


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    #15
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    You wouldn't be earning €50k at 22/23 here even in the "good times", you'd want to be in London for that money at 22.


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    #16
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    farva wrote: »
    You wouldn't be earning €50k at 22/23 here even in the "good times", you'd want to be in London for that money at 22.

    Really? ;)


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    #17
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    farva wrote: »
    You wouldn't be earning €50k at 22/23 here even in the "good times", you'd want to be in London for that money at 22.

    ya but he said that there is a lot of jobs in which you can earn 50k+ at 22/23.......and i am unaware of any?????


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    #18
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    ya but he said that there is a lot of jobs in which you can earn 50k+ at 22/23.......and i am unaware of any?????

    Nope . . . what I said was . . .

    EDIT - there's not many other jobs where you earn €50k plus at 22/23 years old.


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    #19
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #20
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    in fairness youd defo work hard for it seeing some of the hours they work..........

    Im doing my leaving cert this year and im wondering about what i want to do.
    im interested in economics, business and finance so stockbroking looks like an option, not sure now doh..............any sugestions?


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    #21
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    What did you choose as your first choice for your CAO?


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    #22
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    business in UL


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    #23
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    business in UL

    That's one of the best - they have a simulated trading room there and full access to Bloomberg and Datastream - you should have plenty of experience while you are there to help you out with your decision.

    Enjoy college.


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    #24
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    nice, thanks


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    #25
    ixus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭ixus


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    business in UL

    Daragh, if you end up in that course it looks like you get an option in year 2. Economics & Finance looks like it would be suited to you based on your postings.

    I know some of the lecturers there. Listen to guys like Stephen Kinsella, James Ryan, Finbarr Murphy, Bernard Murphy, Fergal O'Brien and John Heneghan.
    They are decent, knowledgable guys.


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    #26
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Really? Like where? A small prop shop? Earning €50k at 22/23 would be straight out of college, there's only one company that I know of who pay that, and that's SIG but they only take super quanty people.

    Darragh, you should consider courses which are more maths, stats, finance and economics based. "Business" degrees tend to be very general and lead to accounting. There tends to be little or no maths. Have a look at Economics & Finance in UCD.


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    #27
    Daragh101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Daragh101


    farva wrote: »
    Really? Like where? A small prop shop? Earning €50k at 22/23 would be straight out of college, there's only one company that I know of who pay that, and that's SIG but they only take super quanty people.

    Darragh, you should consider courses which are more maths, stats, finance and economics based. "Business" degrees tend to be very general and lead to accounting. There tends to be little or no maths. Have a look at Economics & Finance in UCD.

    I am doing pass math!!!! would you not need honours.

    in this course you can major in economics and finance?


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    #28
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    farva wrote: »
    Really? Like where? A small prop shop? Earning €50k at 22/23 would be straight out of college, there's only one company that I know of who pay that, and that's SIG but they only take super quanty people.

    Darragh, you should consider courses which are more maths, stats, finance and economics based. "Business" degrees tend to be very general and lead to accounting. There tends to be little or no maths. Have a look at Economics & Finance in UCD.

    There are more places than that Daragh - all the grads straight out of college in my place start on €45k plus bonus, you'll be on well over €50k in your second year.

    Main thing is enjoy college whatever you do - no-one ever appreciates it as much as they should but it's the best time of your life (cliche I know but it's true)

    Also - read, post and learn. Broaden your horizons past Irish stocks. They are for the dogs.


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    #29
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    Daragh101 wrote: »
    I am doing pass math!!!! would you not need honours.

    in this course you can major in economics and finance?

    I did pass maths - no reflection - it's just time mgt. - honours maths takes up as long as 3 easy subjects like geography etc - it's a points/numbers game. Nobody cares once you get your 2.1 or higher


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    #30
    farva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭farva


    pocketdooz wrote: »
    There are more places than that Daragh - all the grads straight out of college in my place start on €45k plus bonus, you'll be on well over €50k in your second year.

    Main thing is enjoy college whatever you do - no-one ever appreciates it as much as they should but it's the best time of your life (cliche I know but it's true)

    Also - read, post and learn. Broaden your horizons past Irish stocks. They are for the dogs.

    Do you mind me asking what area you’re working in? I’m working in M&A so I’d have a fair idea of what kind of money the Irish stockbrokers and banks start grads on and €45k + bonus is way over the norm.


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    #31
    pocketdooz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭pocketdooz


    farva wrote: »
    Do you mind me asking what area you’re working in? I’m working in M&A so I’d have a fair idea of what kind of money the Irish stockbrokers and banks start grads on and €45k + bonus is way over the norm.

    Fixed Income - in IFSC

    Some people on here know me and know I'm for real.

    That's all I'm comfortable saying on here to be honest.


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