Resident Committee - "Fees"

faceman · 29-10-2008 3:03pm #1

In the estate where we live, there is a resident's committee. Even though the council should be maintaining the estate somewhat, the resident committee asks for a fee that goes towards grass cutting, plants etc etc. however they also use the fees towards a Halloween and Christmas party in the estate for the kids with a glass of wine or 2 for parents.

All good so far? Well not really. There are no kids living in my house. PLus we believe the fee they are looking for (which is a 3 digit "contribution") is very high compared to other estates. Granted the committee represents a smaller portion of the area that other estates, we still feel its too high and have communicated that to them any time they come knocking. Now I havent done any talking to them myself but if it was down to me, i would be interested to know the charges and fees of the suppliers doing the work. We have no interest to paying a fee to fund other kids having a party blah blah.

Ok so we dont sound like nice neighbours, we keep to ourselves somewhat, bar over the wall chat with the next door neighbours and that be that.

Today an unsealed letter came through the door, presumably to all residents advising that approx 85% of households have paid their "contributions". But the bit that has us wound up very bad, is that they have attached a list of all houses in the estates, names of householders and indicated whether the fee has been paid or not!!!

To me, this is completely unacceptable and we are furious. Now while we could have our solicitor bang off a letter, I dont at the same time want to be the one wayneker living in the estate, but i do oppose the amount of the fee.

Any opinions on this one?

staker · 29-10-2008 3:17pm

This kind of stuff really bugs me.
You should probably have nipped this one in the bud earlier,but at this late stage I wouldn't tolerate any more of this abuse.
A solicitor's letter may be a bit rash yet,but is there a commitee chairman/whoever you could approach? Let him/her know where you stand on the whole lot?
You didn't sign up for any of this malarky when you bought your house,so I think it would be fair ti disassociate yourself from the whole lot at the risk of being "outcast",for want of a better word.
The risk of being branded shouldn't exist as people who are big enough to see your point of view won't brand you,and those that do...well:rolleyes:

anotherlostie · 29-10-2008 3:21pm

I think you are being a tightwad to be honest. The proportion of the spend that would go on the parties is a small fraction of the overall cost, yet you don't complain that a group of your neighbours take the time to keep the estate presentable when there is no management company to do so. Imagine what the place would look like without their work.

What I would expect however is that the people running the residents association are accountable to those in the estate, i.e. that they provide yearly accounts of where the money is going, and really the invoices should be available for inspection, should any resident wish to see them.

i71jskz5xu42pb · 29-10-2008 3:35pm

Just out of curiosity what exactly would be in a letter that a solicitor might hypothetically bang off? Not that I'd go that route, just curious.

I think you are dead right to be annoyed about it. Parties aside if these people are taking more that €100 off every house the least they could do is provide an indication of where that money is going - which companies, how much and what for.

Cookie_Monster · 29-10-2008 3:46pm

faceman wrote: »

Today an unsealed letter came through the door, presumably to all residents advising that approx 85% of households have paid their "contributions". But the bit that has us wound up very bad, is that they have attached a list of all houses in the estates, names of householders and indicated whether the fee has been paid or not!!!

To me, this is completely unacceptable and we are furious. Now while we could have our solicitor bang off a letter, I dont at the same time want to be the one wayneker living in the estate, but i do oppose the amount of the fee.

Any opinions on this one?

I agree that this is totally not on. Rather than a solicitors letter I think you need to go and speak to the head of the commettee about this and express your annoyance. See how (s)he reacts first

Failing that Joe Duffy is always an option:D

I also wouldn't be paying that kind of fee and would make this obvious to whoever comes to try and collect it.

Imposter · 29-10-2008 3:53pm

I'd be inclined to have a quiet word with someone on the committee first but if I had no luck there i'd try a different angle.

I'd deliver a letter to every house with an explanation of why you're not paying the 'fee' and ask any and all open questions you have about the committee and the development and how it's being 'managed'. That should get a discussion going if nothing else.

seahorse · 29-10-2008 4:34pm

faceman wrote: »

Any opinions on this one?

Yeah I've got an opinion for you Faceman, you should do the same thing I did; tell them to fukoff.

Several years ago, about a year after I moved into the house I'm living in now, some randomer (apparently a neighbour, and member of the local residents committee) knocked on my door looking for a "contribution". It was supposedly towards the cost of local area newsletters that had been coming through my door for the previous year. I told her I hadnt subscribed to any newsletters and that any unsolicited mail I'd recieved since I moved in had gone straight in my recycling bin.

She was horrified and disgusted and stopped just short of telling me so, but her mad jigglng eyebrows and hysterical tone of voice said it all! She then went on to argue that I had "recieved" these newsletters and "ought" to pay for them!! That's the point where I got pissed off. I said to her: "Let me get this straight - you've been shoving junk-mail through my letterbox and now you're turning up on my doorstep demanding I pay for it? - Get the fcuk out of here", and then I banged the door in her face. I've never had her or anyone else from the 'committee' sniffing round my door again. It wasnt the money you know, it was the bald-faced attitude of entitlement that rubbed me up the wrong way. Funny enough, they've decided to keep feeding my recycle bin, but that's thier business.

faceman wrote: »

Today an unsealed letter came through the door, presumably to all residents advising that approx 85% of households have paid their "contributions". But the bit that has us wound up very bad, is that they have attached a list of all houses in the estates, names of householders and indicated whether the fee has been paid or not!!!

I couldnt get over it when I read the paragraph above; talk about taking it to the next level! It is unacceptable and I can see why you'd be furious. What that's about is simply trying to shame the people who havent handed over 100+ euros into paying it. If I were you I'd fire off that solicitors letter. It may seem extreme to some, but so is letting the whole estate know you havent paid that fee. The residents committee are obviously into a bit of hard-ball and if I were you I'd make sure I outplayed them. You're paying your mortgage/rent and numerous bills related to running your home and you're entitled to be left in peace without being expected to pay for things you never signed up for.

Also, I certainly wouldnt worry about being regarded as "the one wayneker living in the estate", lol. I think the real "waynekers" on that estate are the ones allowing themselves to have a three figure sum extorted from them.

Cookie_Monster · 29-10-2008 4:40pm

seahorse wrote: »

Yeah I've got an opinion for you Faceman, you should do the same thing I did; tell them to fukoff.

ROFL:D
+1

Good comeback with the unsolicited mail line too

MsFifers · 29-10-2008 4:42pm

What I think happened here was you have a group of hardworking volunteers putting a lot of effort into creating a nice living area and trying to develop a community spirt, and getting frustrated that not everyone is - as they see it - pitching in.

So someone got annoyed and decided to list the houses who aren't contributing.

Why is the OP so annoyed? Because by not paying his/her contribution they now look like freeloaders - which, in effect, they are.

If deep down you really believed in your decision not to contribute anything, why would you find it so shameful to be publicly named?

If you didn't agree with the charges or wanted to find out how it was spent, you should have got involved, attended the meetings, and politely made enquiries about invoices etc. If you then discovered money was being wasted, then you would have every right to make a protest.

If its a private estate, the council may not have any responsibility for the maintenance. Would you be happy to stay in the estate if it was a kip? Why would you think that the maintenance of the shared area is none of your responsibility?

Ste.phen · 29-10-2008 4:51pm

I rent and I pay our residents' association, but they only ask for 20 a year, estate has the grass cut by the council so the residents' association money goes to provide planters with flowers around the place, volunteers paint the walls around the green areas, and they run a big party every summer over a weekend.
This year they had 3 different bouncy castles.

And they do the usual lobbying DCC for parking restrictions on match days (we're nearish to Croke park), etc.

Aaaanyways, the point i was trying to make is, it sounds like we get decent enough value for our E20. This is an estate of about 200 houses, no idea who does and doesn't pay, but it seems like your lot are asking for an awful lot.
Surely if there's no management company, the council should be maintaining the green areas, etc.?

dade · 29-10-2008 4:56pm

ah residents committee, I remember being involved in one a long time ago.

in relation to the letter they sent you. I'm sure that the other residents in the estate would be delighted at that breach of data protection. not only have they released details of their members, they have also released for want of a better word accounts details.

are you actually a member of the residents association? if not tell them where to go if you want and any more unsolicited junk will be passed on to the data protection commission.

€100 + seems a hell of a lot of money, regardless of the fact that you have no kids to avail of the parties that's just the nature of the beast I'm afraid, the parents that don't drink could say the same about the glasses of wine and so on. anyway the association should be registered as a limited liability company most probably as a non profit, however it does have to keep a set of accounts and submit these accounts. it also has to provide a copy of these accounts prior to the AGM to all shareholders, that's you the association members. so I'd be asking for a breakdown of where all the money went and if you're not happy have them provide copies of invoices.

running a residents association can be as cheap or as expensive as you like, the biggest cost being the public liability insurance so that could account for some of the fee and of course they are running up cost on they letters they have sent out etc.

as for the money going to keep the estate tidy, bollix that's what the local council are for. if the RA feel the council feel that the council are not doing enough then they should make representations on behalf of the residents to the council and not spend money and getting someone else to do it. I believe the local elections are due next year, you'd be surprised what a councilor will do for votes

as for what your neighbors think to hell with them. I'm sure that others in the estate are afraid to open their mouth for fear of ridicule but feel the same as you.

If the committee have an email I'd bang them an email highlighting your concerns and also at the next meeting highlight the data breach just to embarrass them.

dade · 29-10-2008 5:05pm

MsFifers wrote: »

What I think happened here was you have a group of hardworking volunteers putting a lot of effort into creating a nice living area and trying to develop a community spirt, and getting frustrated that not everyone is - as they see it - pitching in.

or people using it as a soap box for their own agendas as they do in my estate. also not everyone is obliged to pitch in, only members of the association and again their contribution is the money they give and also what time they can give up.

MsFifers wrote: »

So someone got annoyed and decided to list the houses who aren't contributing..

and to hell with a members privacy eh? that's a serious breach on behalf of the committee and the chair person that authorize this should be asked to step down as should the treasurer

MsFifers wrote: »

Why is the OP so annoyed? Because by not paying his/her contribution they now look like freeloaders - which, in effect, they are.

no because their details was circulated without permission maybe?

MsFifers wrote: »

If deep down you really believed in your decision not to contribute anything, why would you find it so shameful to be publicly named?

eh because it's a breach of privacy, the committee had no right to release that information. its an issue between the committee treasurer and the homeowner and has nothing to do with the other association members

MsFifers wrote: »

If its a private estate, the council may not have any responsibility for the maintenance. Would you be happy to stay in the estate if it was a kip? Why would you think that the maintenance of the shared area is none of your responsibility?

if it was a private estate then all those mentioned activities like cutting the grass etc would be handled by a management company via an appointed management agent. if it's not a private estate then the council are responsible for the basic upkeep, any extra flowers etc are up to the residents and not all are obliged to contribute

seahorse · 29-10-2008 5:05pm

MsFifers wrote: »

Why is the OP so annoyed? Because by not paying his/her contribution they now look like freeloaders - which, in effect, they are.

"his/her contribution"? That is to assume they owe that money. Here's news: They don’t.

If you can find a way to justify calling the OP's family "freeloaders" for refusing to have 100+ euros they've worked hard for extracted from their household budget by a gang of ramdomers who happen to live in the locality, I'd be really interested to hear it. They werent at that party, or any of these parties; have no interest in them obviously, and have no kids; so maybe that's something you need to bear in mind.

As for "a group of hardworking volunteers", they sound to me more like a group of extraordinarily arrogant and presumptuous busybodies with nothing better to do with their time than hold vino parties for themselves and their kids at other peoples expense.

A contribution of this sort is voluntary by nature; these strong-armed tactics make it very plain that there is nothing voluntary about this as far as these people are concerned. That is exactly why they deserve to be sent on their way in very short shrift. I'd tell them to console themselves with a few more glasses of wine at my neighbours expense. It’s a pity they don’t knock on my door – I nearly wish they would!

faceman · 29-10-2008 5:23pm

Just to put in context, the fee is €250

Lucutus · 29-10-2008 5:23pm

OP, your best option is to communicate directly with the chairperson or a member of the residents committee. They're volunteers who give up many hours of their own time ensuring that the area you live in is presentable and pleasant to live in.

As such, they're likely to have a sense of pride in the work that they do and the attitude some people have with them, "You do nothing for me, why should I pay?" is likely to rub them up the wrong way and get them into defensive mode.

That type of attitude is simply not constructive and neither is publishing a list of all the houses with paid/unpaid status in a newsletter. You're right to be angry about that. It's a mistake and they should be made it see it as such, not a way of making sure they get 100% paid in.

In your instance, a three figure sum does seem excessive, however, it might have been required for the purchase of something expensive to maintain the common areas, or the hiring of a contractor for works, you will only find this out by attending an AGM or committee meeting and checking out the finances for yourself.

It sounds like you're not the only one who hasn't paid up, the committee may have been asked about the amount before, so they should be able to explain where the money goes. If you're not happy with the amount, or any particular activity the committee spends the money on, then you don't have to pay it. Consider paying a lesser amount into the pot for the activities that they carry out and you value, discuss that with them and agree on it.

Work with your residents committee, they're your neighbours, not your enemies.

passive · 29-10-2008 5:29pm

Igy wrote: »

This year they had 3 different bouncy castles.

Why wasn't I informed?

dade · 29-10-2008 5:34pm

faceman wrote: »

Just to put in context, the fee is €250

**** me gently with a chain saw that's a little steep

Paulw · 29-10-2008 5:46pm

faceman wrote: »

Just to put in context, the fee is €250

OUCH.

I'd say that €50 goes towards the grass cutting and plants, while the other €200 is used for insurance and parties/wine, etc.

It sounds very excessive to me.

Go to them and offer them €50 for their "work", and also point out their incorrect choice to print names and addresses.

seahorse · 29-10-2008 5:51pm

faceman wrote: »

Just to put in context, the fee is €250

It's a total joke that they've got the nerve to ask people to contribute that amount in the first place, never mind trying to insist on it. Jesus, I'd run amok if I lived on your estate. :mad:

dade · 29-10-2008 5:54pm

how many people in the association? you sure that all that money is ending up in the association coffers and not someone's pocket

Thoie · 29-10-2008 6:02pm

Here's an alternative question - I'm on a residents association. There's a set maintenance fee by a management company that people pay towards upkeep etc.

We had semi considered asking for a donation of a fiver per household to help with photocopying etc (at the moment this is paid out of our own pockets), but haven't gone down this route as we feel it would then involve keeping accounts, opening a bank account etc which would all start making everything very official and time consuming.

A suggestion has been that the next time we're holding a "party" (ours are small affairs involving tea, coffee and diluted orange etc) that we leave a collection plate somewhere that people could drop a few coins on, or perhaps charging 50p for a cup of coffee or whatever.

How would people in general feel about that sort of thing?

i71jskz5xu42pb · 29-10-2008 6:06pm

faceman wrote: »

Just to put in context, the fee is €250

More context please: how many houses on the estate.

MsFifers · 29-10-2008 6:09pm

look - I agree 250 seems excessive - but we only have the OPs side of the story. Is this a private estate - what does the fees cover? - insurance? - waste collection? - etc

I just think that they should have got involved if they didn't like what was being asked. Personally, I would be more embarrassed to be living in an estate, and having my neighbours tidying up the area for me, with me sitting back on me ar*e enjoying it all while not making any contribution.

If the OP wants to pretend they aren't part of a community - then they should go and live in a detatched home in the middle of nowhere.

In my apartment block, I've been paying my management fees for years, while a couple of neighbours have decided they are too special to chip in. Hence they get free insurance, and I'm the mug that lets them away with it. We are considering taking the same steps as the OP's resident committee did. Name & shame. At least it gets a reaction obviously.

seahorse · 29-10-2008 6:12pm

Thoie wrote: »

A suggestion has been that the next time we're holding a "party" (ours are small affairs involving tea, coffee and diluted orange etc) that we leave a collection plate somewhere that people could drop a few coins on, or perhaps charging 50p for a cup of coffee or whatever.

How would people in general feel about that sort of thing?

I dont think any reasonable person would have a problem with that Thoie. It's worlds away from the sort of extortion the OP is talking about here.

seahorse · 29-10-2008 6:25pm

MsFifers wrote: »

If the OP wants to pretend they aren't part of a community - then they should go and live in a detatched home in the middle of nowhere.

That's your view and it's totally perpendicular to a lot of peoples, including mine. I certainly am not "part of a community". I live in my own home and mind my own business and, beyond being courteous and polite, I've no interest in getting involved with the people around me, some of whom have nothing better to do with their time than hold coffee mornings and gossip about the state of the world and their immediate locality in particular. If that's what they want to do, well, they're free to do it; but they can damn well do it at their own expense.

As to your concerns about waste fees, insurance, ect; the OP has said absolutely nothing to suggest those issues are covered by this exorbitant fee.

Paulw · 29-10-2008 7:28pm

MsFifers wrote: »

I agree 250 seems excessive - but we only have the OPs side of the story. Is this a private estate - what does the fees cover? - insurance? - waste collection? - etc

As the OP has said, it's not a private estate, and they do not pay management fees. So, the council would be responsible for maintenance of grass/parks, etc, and waste collection would be separate (bin charges etc).

So, whatever is collected is not for waste collection, building insurance, etc.

The OP has said that it's for grass cutting, plants and occasional parties. These would all be additional and should be totally voluntary.

I live in a managed development, and we have to pay management fees. That I accept, and was well aware of at the time of buying. This "resident's association contribution" of €250 seems totally excessive, and I would have a problem with it.

Ste.phen · 29-10-2008 9:58pm

passive wrote: »

Why wasn't I informed?

(Off topic maybe?)
Oh i *so* told you. They had a big marquee set up, a DJ, band etc

Suaimhneach · 29-10-2008 10:34pm

Get in touch with the other people who havent paid and see if any of them share your view - if going to the committee is an option maybe it'll be easier / given more weight if a few of you go together.

Personally, I would cause havoc if such a thing happened to me. Its an contribution and public embarrassment is more than a step too far.

faceman · 29-10-2008 11:57pm

To clarify, the fee or 'contribution' as they put it, does not cover waste or insurance. We pay that ourselves.

We could cut the grass outside the house ourselves and it wouldn't cost €250!!

the_syco · 30-10-2008 12:52am

If there are 10 houses in the estate, that's a total of €2,500. 100 houses, €25,000

I'd check with the other non-payee's, if they have any notion of where the money goes to, and if no-one knows, demand that the Residents Committee give everyone a copy of the accounts, showing where all the money went to.

There is about 400 houses in the estate I'm in. If everyone paid €250, that would be equal to €100,000 And that sort of money pay have legs if given to the wrong person:mad:

i71jskz5xu42pb · 30-10-2008 12:56am

the_syco wrote: »

If there are 10 houses in the estate, that's a total of €2,500. 100 houses, €25,000

How much would it be if there were 200 houses in the estate?

Resident Committee - "Fees"

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