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Resident Committee - "Fees"
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so your association should try steer clear of any activities that cross over those responsibilities of the management company. However, if you wanted to add extra flowers etc around the place to liven it up that would be your responsibility and not managements.Here's an alternative question - I'm on a residents association. There's a set maintenance fee by a management company that people pay towards upkeep etc.We had semi considered asking for a donation of a fiver per household to help with photocopying etc (at the moment this is paid out of our own pockets), but haven't gone down this route as we feel it would then involve keeping accounts, opening a bank account etc which would all start making everything very official and time consuming.
a residents association needs to be official, and if so you may be able to get funding from your local council for events. you also have to consider public liability insurance for any of your get together so in general should be asking for a fee from all members, it doesn't have to be big, the one i started looked for about €40 a year initially.
good idea at least then the Mooney for the venue etc is coming in, But as soon a you start taking in money you are official and need a set of accounts.A suggestion has been that the next time we're holding a "party" (ours are small affairs involving tea, coffee and diluted orange etc) that we leave a collection plate somewhere that people could drop a few coins on, or perhaps charging 50p for a cup of coffee or whatever. .
where does the OP say that they live in a private estate? and if they did then management Fee would surely apply for all this grass cuttinglook - I agree 250 seems excessive - but we only have the OPs side of the story. Is this a private estate - what does the fees cover? - insurance? - waste collection? - etc.I just think that they should have got involved if they didn't like what was being asked. Personally, I would be more embarrassed to be living in an estate, and having my neighbours tidying up the area for me, with me sitting back on me ar*e enjoying it all while not making any contribution. .
maybe like me they liked the idea initially. and why should they feel embarrassed if their neighbors take it upon themselves to clean the place? maybe the OP has a sick grandmother and they cant afford the time to participate, and at that point would the participation not be contribution enough, ya know give up time or money not both
WTF just because some numbnuts decides to charge 250 for a residents association without proper justification the OP suddenly has no community spirit? you wouldn't be the treasure/chairperson of this association would you?If the OP wants to pretend they aren't part of a community - then they should go and live in a detached home in the middle of nowhere..
In my apartment block, I've been paying my management fees for years, while a couple of neighbours have decided they are too special to chip in. .
that is their right to object to management fees and lets make one thing clear a management company is not a residents association, they are separate entities, one is voluntary membership the other compulsory under your purchase contract. so where's the chipping in coming from. get your facts straight in your head there for a second. secondly anyone can say that they don't pay management fees, have you proof of same?Hence they get free insurance, and I'm the mug that lets them away with it. We are considering taking the same steps as the OP's resident committee did. Name & shame. At least it gets a reaction obviously.
they may get free insurance and building maintenance for not but if they continue to pay they will end up in court for breach of contract and in the long run will cost them more.
if your Residents association decides to name and shame make sure you are fully versed on the data protection act or at least have a good lawyer. naming and shaming members is a serious breach of their confidentiality and can land your association up in court. but you don't need to worry coz you sound very well run and organized and have full insurance right? you do have insurance right coz if you don't and someone decides to sue over your breach of data protection well that's gonna hit your pocket very deep. unless of course you're registered as a limited liability company.
jasys you could be my twin living in my estate, no one in my place has any community spirit, idiots with music shaking the walls at 5 AM let off and no one complains, people littering be it beer cans or fag buts out side the balconies, everyone tuts but no one says anything, even when it comes to tackling issues with the management company no on wanted to know. so i leave them all to it now.That's your view and it's totally perpendicular to a lot of peoples, including mine. I certainly am not "part of a community". .......... If that's what they want to do, well, they're free to do it; but they can damn well do it at their own expense.
exactly, I assume those items are covered under some sort of management fee, which is something different to a residents association fee. I think MsFifers has her wires well and truly crossed and can't distinguish the two. she actually sounds like she could be on my old committee.That's
As to your concerns about waste fees, insurance, etc; the OP has said absolutely nothing to suggest those issues are covered by this exorbitant fee.
see i tried to set up a Residents association (boards had to pull the thread about it in North Dublin LOL) and no one was interested. well they where but only interested in their own problem and getting others to solve them for them the usual "I have an issue with management they promised me X,Y &Z and didn't do it" or "the foreman promised this but didn't come through, you go sort him out" or the best one, "I have a broken gate at at the last AGM the management company said they'd fix it and I've been waiting a year now can you resolve it" and when asked how often did he follow up he replied "never, i mentioned it at the AGM and assumed it would be done, but sure you can follow up for me" all things that where probably not within the remit of a fledgling association etc. then the new chairperson (after i stepped down) started to misinform the members of their legal rights (he's a soap box politician not a lawyer) which was laughable and misquoting stuff i had said previously0 -
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€400 for plants is reasonable enough, but €9,500 is a huge amount of money for grass cutting, surely it's farmed out to some sort of landscaping company?
Ask to see the invoices from that company, confirm the costs for yourself, argue that it's too expensive, then suggest ways or reducing the cost.
For instance, our residents committee bought a couple of reliable lawnmowers and a petrol strimmer, the initial cost was high enough, they need to be serviced every year and we need resident volunteers to actually do the work.
It results in a €50 annual fee for the residents, then the remainder is spent on some 'feel good' community events like (volunteer) santa visits at christmas to kids houses on the estate with sweets etc.
Find out how to join the residents comittee, change is easier made from inside
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Yup. Next questionI don't wish to sound rude (but think I probably will), but where are people getting all this sh*te about the data protection act? Are any of you actually familiar with it?
It could be argued that the RA in this case obtained the details of other residents off a public listing such as the electoral register but the point here is the manner in which they have used these details to effectively name and shame other residents for what effectively is entirely their perogative to pay or not. It may not be a clear breach of DPC but imho the RA in this case have dealt with this poorly at best. This is tantamount to saying that Mrs.Murphy in number 7 wears a wig on Saturdays and letting everybody else in the estate know. Frankly, its nobody elses business and I would suggest in the context of this shoddy approach of coining a few quid out of a resident who has a made a choice of not contributing should be dealt with by having a quiet word in the clowns ear who thought this leaflet was a good idea, OP you might be wasting your time as anybody with a shred of common sense wouldnt have went down this road but you could ask for a retraction without sounding like too much off a fusspot.0 -
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yes they do have a right to know, but they do not have a right to know who is or isn't paying. it's between the chair, treasurer and possibly secretary of the association and that member. if people didn't pay hen it should be an individualized letter to that person. not a blanket mailing.The residents have a right to know why they are paying €250.00 instead of €200.00 the OP is the reason. They have to keep track, it could also be a reminder to those who didn't pay in case they forgot, where on holidays etc.
if they don't have the time to do it right then step down and let someone else do it.[
They probably don't have the time to call to every house and write individual letters to every person. Perhaps they have a life, perhaps they have children, Perhaps they have things to do and for simplicity sake it was easier to just send out a generic mail. Lot of drama, the reaction, if you ask me.[
If you start spouting off data protection acts over something so silly it gets completely out of hand. That Act is a complicated mechanism to protect those who use it, even bank can get information from your credit card company, from mortgage companies, a lot of our information is shared and the protection act ensures that it is not abused.
I,m not spouting on about the act but the act is there to protect people from violations of they privacy. any breach of that is in my view serious and not silly, obviously you have little regard for your personal privacy and more power to you. i on the other hand take umbrage with anyone that would release that info without my prior written consent.
a bank can only gather information from your credit card because one of the terms and conditions of your getting a card from them is to allow them to look at your spending patterns, they use this data for one purpose and one purpose only to make offers to you to generate business, for example if they notice you use your card abroad they may offer you some travel insurance. like wise your club card is Tesco, the data they is used for buying habits so they can directly market to you items that closely match your previous purchases. this data is gathered for that reason and only used for that reason so no breach in that act. also they do not pass the data on to third parties hence all the security questions when you phone them, all intended to validate in as much as possible that you are who you say you are.[
The Long shot is if the OP doesn't want to pay he doesn't have to. If he had stated the Residents Associates where abusing him because he didn't pay then I would understand but a list! He, nor you, nor I have any idea or busy/not busy the Residents Association are and whether it was intended to upset them or a generic mail. Perhaps OP should ask.
busy my @rse. they hold data therefore they legally have an obligation to be versed in the data protection act of this country there is not gray area on this. the law is very specific on this. ignorance is not an excuse. releasing even the names of the members could be seen as a breach never mind accounting information, and a list of who paid and who doesn't would probably fall under that title.
They have opposed every single amenity that's ever been suggested for this area, with very little success, thankfully. Since I've been here they've opposed the local pub setting up an off-licence, ...... they opposed the arrival of the local chipper! ........... the building of the local feckin creche!!! ........These are only a handful of their outrageous oppositions, and thank God common sense has prevailed and they're been overridden on all of these;
jaysus really does sound like my place, some of the members out my way oppose a shop, cos it will increase traffic, they oppose a school because it will increase traffic and turn the place into a Rat Run, their only solution to speeding is speed rams and do not want to look at any other possible solution. and parking, ah sure make everyone pay just coz some nonresident park there during the day. beggers belief reallyI'm not against residents committees in principle; I'm sure they can work wonderfully well for areas when not manned by a gang of bored-stiff agenda-seeking gobshytes.
hence why i started the residents association in Holywell, a lot of issues with the developer, the management company and so on, so we felt that we would have a bigger voice as a group. Hell the place had a school site myself and there others approached the department of education, Fingal County Council and Educate together. all three parties expressed an interest in pursuing it, turns out educate together are setting up shop there, so i get a primary school and a crèche 2 minutes walk from my door
no whey had leaflets out every 3 months for meetings and the agendas is the same: - parking, litter and speed. 3 months ago the same and the same the time before that. they haven't changed committee members in over 2 years it's a joke, I'm convinced its soapboxed politicians with an agendaI don't wish to sound rude (but think I probably will), but where are people getting all this sh*te about the data protection act? Are any of you actually familiar with it?
in a word yes not the explicit wording coz I'm not a lawyer but my rights and obligations under the act yes I've a pretty good idea about it. Can I ask you the same question?
see within my current job I have had to know what can and can't be done under data protection because of the huge volumes of data that pass across my desk. under that act once you hold any data on any individual then you are bound by the act to keep it confidential. you are also bound to provide any and all information to the person in question upon written request and for a nominal fee of about €6 and all this info should be provided within 30 days unless circumstances dictate otherwise like it's off site in remote storage, but you have to get it back and provide it to them. you also can not hold onto the information any longer than is absolutely necessary. you also can't pass that information on to a third party, except the state, but that I believe is only on production of a court order.
that act is not there to protect those that use it I've no idea where you get this messed up view of it, the act is there to protect all citizens of this land. you do not have a choice if you want to use it or not. it's not like the companies act, that only like the name employs effects companies and anyone owning, running or creating one and not in general a PAYE worker. so i suggest you look into the act and verse yourself in your rights and more importantly your obligations under it.
Ireland has some of the better data protection laws. for example if you encrypt your data the Gardai can not ask/force you to unencrypted it again unless they provide a court order and that will only be granted once they prove that the data contains something criminal. or that's the jist of it anyway. so yes i know a little about it.
agreed but then all letters would only contain names and addresses, info that is freely available. however it also contained monetary values paid or due, once that is on it it becomes confidential data IMO.It could be argued that the RA in this case obtained the details of other residents off a public listing such as the electoral register.but the point here is the manner in which they have used these details to effectively name and shame other residents for what effectively is entirely their perogative to pay or not. It may not be a clear breach of DPC but imho the RA in this case have dealt with this poorly at best.
have to disagree on it being a breach but I do agree one way or the other it is bad form on their partSimpleSam06 wrote: »Interesting tidbit, theres no such thing as a non profit in Irish law. You have your sports clubs and your registered charities, thats it. I found this out when I was trying to set up a lottery for a local association here.
yep sports and social clubs, associations and charities more or less fall under one loose umbrella in relation to company law what would loosely be described as non profit but legally obviously that term does not exist, other than that its a company of one form or anotherthe closest you could have is a company limited by guarantee. (by guarantee of it's member) it's a bit deeper than than obviously but it's the best we got
yeah that's what i meant not limited liability company sorry
but the idea was the same just not the wording
sorry to rain on your parade the act does apply. it's an associate ands as such has a liability of some sort, maybe not a tax liability as they would be in theory a non profit organization, but IIRC do still need to file a tax return especially if they plan on getting funding from a local council. hell in that regard they even need a tax number.This whole issue has nothing to do with the data protection act. the residents association is most likely not a company of any description, so liability etc. doesn't count. .
and the issue though originally not necessarily about data protection, the actions of the association is. they released data about people that they shouldn't have.
as is his right. just like it is my right not to want anyone to know I'm Ian paisleys secret love child or am in fact Osama Bin ladin in exile. and guess what the Data protection act was designed just for this purpose.He doesn't want anyone to know he doesn't pay. .He doesn't have to pay and has nothing to be ashamed of if he doesn't pay thus this name and shame argument I don't understand how can they shame you when you have done nothing to be ashamed of? .
he didn't say he was ashamed, i believed he said he was pissed off that they released the information and rightly so IMO.
I never said i felt sorry for him, i said what the association did was wrong and he has a right to be angryI seem to be the only one on here who doesn't feel sorry for the OP,
and you pay for every amenity you avail of? for example do you pay for the use of an elevator in a shopping center? that's an amenity. under your notions that should be paid for too. at the end of the day, if a group of people decide to plant flowers and trees, collect litter and cut the grass on a public road then more power to them and ya know what I'm gonna reap the rewards of their labor no problem. but I'm under no obligation to pay for it coz guess what, i didn't enter into an agreement to do so. so what about the people not in the association, have they to close their eyes when walking by the lovely flowers?you are not paying but using all amenities providedand then complaining about a list which was probably sent as a generic mail to cut costs (others were probably complaining about the high cost), 50% of residents might have requested it, they can't please everybody especially someone who doesn't even contribute
what they should have done was sent a simple reminder letter to all members stating that some had not paid and could they do so at their earliest convenience, hell they should have only sent the letters to those that didn't pay, they did after all have a list of the names so it would have been more time and cost effective to only address those individuals would it not?
they can't please everyone but they do have to abide by the law. they breached data protection and should be reprimanded. would you be so relaxed about it if say your credit card company sent a letter to all other "members of their association" outlining what you hadn't paid them? i bet you'd be kicking up a storm wanting someone to loose their job over it. well just because it was "only" a residents association doesn't make it any less of a violation of privacy.0 -
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Actually what I found out was that for taxation purposes only specifically registered charities and sports clubs that hold regular sporting events can avail of the tax-free advantages normally associated with what we would think of as a "non profit". They also have to register as companies in order to have a legal structure in Irish law. Associations and social clubs don't make the grade, apparently.yep sports and social clubs, associations and charities more or less fall under one loose umbrella in relation to company law what would loosely be described as non profit but legally obviously that term does not exist, other than that its a company of one form or another
That is a limited liability company.yeah that's what i meant not limited liability company sorry but the idea was the same just not the wording0
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