Ian O Doherty in the Irish Independent.

condra · 04-12-2007 1:58am #1

Just wondering if anyone read his article on Islam and Sharia law in yesterdays indo (Monday 3rd Jan 2008) ?

I enjoyed it and found it interesting.

- Just found it online here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/i-have-no-respect-or-tolerance-for-sharia-1235057.html

quick quote:

And before we start to think that these are isolated incidents by extremists, the Muslim Council of Britain, the supposed "moderate" wing of mainstream Islam, still claim that death is too good for Salman Rushdie and they regularly rail against gays.

Oh, and for the record, 40pc of British Muslims want Sharia to be instituted in Britain. Hardly a lunatic minority, surely?

Nerin · 04-12-2007 2:01am

i love ian o dohertys articles. and when he goes on tv,its hilarious.

condra · 04-12-2007 2:58am

Just read all the replies/comments, pretty disappointing that so many people seem to miss the point of the article, or miss the point of other peoples comments!

To be honest I dont often read the newspapers, but I'll keep an eye out for him, though I suspect I might not like everything he has to say.

Zillah · 04-12-2007 3:24am

That was wonderful.

Dades · 04-12-2007 10:48am

Ian O'Doherty ftw.

Pompey Magnus · 04-12-2007 11:03am

I can't stand The Indo and I can't stand Ian O' Doherty but I'll give it to him that he got it right in that article, but then even a stopped clock gets it right twice a day.

Zombrex · 04-12-2007 11:24am

womoma wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone read his article on Islam and Sharia law in yesterdays indo (Monday 3rd Jan 2008) ?

I enjoyed it and found it interesting.

- Just found it online here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/i-have-no-respect-or-tolerance-for-sharia-1235057.html

quick quote:

It is a bit of an inaccurate article.

The tradition of honor killings actually have little to do with Islam, it is in fact much older and goes back to tribal traditions in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Honor killings are largely none existent in traditional Islamic communities in Eastern Europe or Asia.

I'm neither a fan of Islam (or any religion) or of honor killings, but clumping them together like this simply demonstrates an ignorance of the subject, in the same way that the majority of Americans only found out there were two main Muslim groups who don't get along in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

Rev Hellfire · 04-12-2007 11:29am

Hammer meet nailhead.

Rev Hellfire · 04-12-2007 11:47am

Wicknight wrote: »

The tradition of honor killings actually have little to do with Islam, it is in fact much older and goes back to tribal traditions in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Honor killings are largely none existent in traditional Islamic communities in Eastern Europe or Asia.

It’s a valid point you make there, but also a bit inaccurate.

If you look at the nature of the type of Islam that is currently been spread you’ll find its one which is rooted firmly in the middle-east and bound to the traditional values there.

Since the spread of Islam is now so closely coupled with the money and values of the region they are for all practical senses the same. In the same way that American culture is accused of replacing traditional western (European) culture so can the native Islamic practises of other regions may be seen under the same cultural onslaught.

pH · 04-12-2007 12:45pm

Wicknight wrote: »

It is a bit of an inaccurate article.

To say the least

Indo wrote:

So the story gets more interesting. The so-called "Qatif Girl", the truly heroic woman who now faces 200 lashes after being gang-raped had more than just the authorities of this savage kingdom to worry about

See that little word after - it's a bloody disgrace - it's like saying "Fred West was sentenced to life in prison after building a new patio". Yes it's technically correct but the 'journalist' (and I am hesitant to use that word here) is deliberately trying to confuse the reader by implying cause : She was raped -> she needs to be lashed.

Her punishment I believe is for being alone with a man in a car *before* the rape took place - Now I think that this is an abhorrent violation of her rights but why can't this idiot make the real story clear - as it is the story can be legitimately brushed away by a Muslim apologist because it is wrong - and lets them escape the real question - why the hell do you think it's right to beat a woman publicly for being in a car with a man?

We get used to them saying "Oh Islamic women love the hijab and the Islamic rules they live by and the modesty it brings - nothing in Islam is forced on women - Allah demands they live a modest life and they willingly accept it - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3805733.stm etc etc, yet this seems at odds with gangs of perverted mullahs roaming the street ogling women to determine if they've dressed too sexy

As for the honour killing I've never heard that it is sanctioned by Islamic law - I've never heard of a Sharia court sentencing a woman to be killed by her family. He should be arguing that Sharia law is lenient on those who commit these brutal acts, but that is not mentioned in the article, or any evidence for that brought up. Overall a poor polemic easily (and justifiably) brushed aside by those who defend Islam - a pity when there is so much truly indefensible about Islam.

cavedave · 04-12-2007 1:29pm

I heard Tinky Winky has converted to Islam.

I hope he does not start trying to brainwash kids into Sharia law.

Zombrex · 04-12-2007 2:30pm

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If you look at the nature of the type of Islam that is currently been spread you’ll find its one which is rooted firmly in the middle-east and bound to the traditional values there.

But that is my point. This (honor killings) isn't a "type of Islam", it has little to do with Islam. It is a tradition rooted in the areas that predates Islam by a thousand years. It is almost non-existent in non-Arabian and Persian Islamic countries.

It would be like saying "I don't like this particular form of Catholicism that the Irish spread where people get drunk a lot and say 'feck' all the time"

As pH points out this incident simply demonstrates how little people in the west understand about Islam, and simply serves to give the Islamic community an excuse to dismiss genuine objections to genuine grievances with Islamic law. If someone said "It is disgusting that Islamic law would whip a woman for being raped" defenders of Islam would simply point out that that isn't why she is being whipped, and then dismiss future criticism as ignorance. It is of course disgusting that a woman would be whipped for being in a car with a non-related male, but that point is just lost in a wash of misdirected and ignorant ranting.

estebancambias · 05-12-2007 1:52am

My problem is I find it quite hard reading an article which won't be published for another month.

I really enjoyed that.

BRIAN1956 · 05-12-2007 2:09am

cavedave wrote: »

I heard Tinky Winky has converted to Islam.

I hope he does not start trying to brainwash kids into Sharia law.

:)

lostexpectation · 06-12-2007 11:59am

he's just a bigot, nothing else

Fallen Seraph · 06-12-2007 12:13pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

he's just a bigot, nothing else

Seconded.

The indo is a rag.

Nerin · 06-12-2007 3:45pm

he's just a bigot, nothing else

LOL
you know ,you can be a liberal,in no way racist person and laugh/enjoy his articles.

Fallen Seraph · 06-12-2007 7:26pm

nerin wrote: »

LOL
you know ,you can be a liberal,in no way racist person and laugh/enjoy his articles.

.. uh, what's funny about them? I don't get the joke?

Nerin · 06-12-2007 7:34pm

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

Fallen Seraph · 06-12-2007 7:38pm

nerin wrote: »

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

I've never read any others, but this one isn't amusing?

I appreciate offensive humour. But this just isn't. Maybe I'm just not getting it...

Also, I'll happily complain any day of the week about the editorial and opinion content of the Indo. It's consistently insular, willfully ignorant and often just plain stupid.

Nerin · 06-12-2007 7:46pm

Also, I'll happily complain any day of the week about the editorial and opinion content of the Indo. It's consistently insular, willfully ignorant and often just plain stupid.

well,fair enough,i only read it when my housemate brings it home,or my grandads finished with it at the weekends,but i only really go for ians articles,which is what this thread is about.
read more of his articles,and you mightent think hes a bigot.
he's a grumpy fecker. lol

PDN · 06-12-2007 8:00pm

nerin wrote: »

well,fair enough,i only read it when my housemate brings it home,or my grandads finished with it at the weekends,but i only really go for ians articles,which is what this thread is about.
read more of his articles,and you mightent think hes a bigot.
he's a grumpy fecker. lol

In a truly rational world I think we would reserve the label of 'bigot' for those who justify whipping a rape victim with 200 lashes for being in a car with a guy. Instead we call a journalist 'bigot' for giving out about it.

condra · 06-12-2007 8:05pm

Interesting to hear peoples thoughts on this.

Political correctness is a double edged sword.

lostexpectation · 08-12-2007 3:05pm

PDN wrote: »

In a truly rational world I think we would reserve the label of 'bigot' for those who justify whipping a rape victim with 200 lashes for being in a car with a guy. Instead we call a journalist 'bigot' for giving out about it.

if he knew what he was talking about (as was pointed) out your point might be valid, but he's just vomiting bile, so yes I will criticse him for that.

DapperGent · 09-12-2007 8:58am

lol the indo is such fúcking trash.

keano_afc · 09-12-2007 1:35pm

I find his articles on Islam interesting. However, what annoys me most about him is that he maintains he's an atheist yet nearly every day uses phrases like "for the love of God", "thank God for...". As a Christian I find it confusing for him to refer to a God he claims not to believe in so many times in his column.

MrJoeSoap · 09-12-2007 1:39pm

keano_afc wrote: »

I find his articles on Islam interesting. However, what annoys me most about him is that he maintains he's an atheist yet nearly every day uses phrases like "for the love of God", "thank God for...". As a Christian I find it confusing for him to refer to a God he claims not to believe in so many times in his column.

I use those phrases all the time and I'm an Atheist. They're common phrases in the culture I've grown up in, it does not indicate that I subconsciously believe.

Barack Obama · 16-03-2009 2:55pm

Great to find this old thread. IOD is an ignorant twit if ever there was one.

Dades · 16-03-2009 3:14pm

Um, shouldn't you be saving Western Civilisation instead of dragging up old threads?

Barack Obama · 16-03-2009 5:12pm

Dades wrote: »

Um, shouldn't you be saving Western Civilisation instead of dragging up old threads?

Step by step

dvpower · 16-03-2009 9:34pm

Nerin wrote: »

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

He is Kevin Myers Lite.

Ian O Doherty in the Irish Independent.

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