Ian O Doherty in the Irish Independent.

condra

Just wondering if anyone read his article on Islam and Sharia law in yesterdays indo (Monday 3rd Jan 2008) ?

I enjoyed it and found it interesting.

- Just found it online here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/i-have-no-respect-or-tolerance-for-sharia-1235057.html

quick quote:

And before we start to think that these are isolated incidents by extremists, the Muslim Council of Britain, the supposed "moderate" wing of mainstream Islam, still claim that death is too good for Salman Rushdie and they regularly rail against gays.

Oh, and for the record, 40pc of British Muslims want Sharia to be instituted in Britain. Hardly a lunatic minority, surely?

Nerin

i love ian o dohertys articles. and when he goes on tv,its hilarious.

condra

Just read all the replies/comments, pretty disappointing that so many people seem to miss the point of the article, or miss the point of other peoples comments!

To be honest I dont often read the newspapers, but I'll keep an eye out for him, though I suspect I might not like everything he has to say.

Zillah

That was wonderful.

Dades

Ian O'Doherty ftw.

Pompey Magnus

I can't stand The Indo and I can't stand Ian O' Doherty but I'll give it to him that he got it right in that article, but then even a stopped clock gets it right twice a day.

Zombrex

womoma wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone read his article on Islam and Sharia law in yesterdays indo (Monday 3rd Jan 2008) ?

I enjoyed it and found it interesting.

- Just found it online here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/i-have-no-respect-or-tolerance-for-sharia-1235057.html

quick quote:

It is a bit of an inaccurate article.

The tradition of honor killings actually have little to do with Islam, it is in fact much older and goes back to tribal traditions in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Honor killings are largely none existent in traditional Islamic communities in Eastern Europe or Asia.

I'm neither a fan of Islam (or any religion) or of honor killings, but clumping them together like this simply demonstrates an ignorance of the subject, in the same way that the majority of Americans only found out there were two main Muslim groups who don't get along in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

Rev Hellfire

Hammer meet nailhead.

Rev Hellfire

Wicknight wrote: »

The tradition of honor killings actually have little to do with Islam, it is in fact much older and goes back to tribal traditions in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Honor killings are largely none existent in traditional Islamic communities in Eastern Europe or Asia.

It’s a valid point you make there, but also a bit inaccurate.

If you look at the nature of the type of Islam that is currently been spread you’ll find its one which is rooted firmly in the middle-east and bound to the traditional values there.

Since the spread of Islam is now so closely coupled with the money and values of the region they are for all practical senses the same. In the same way that American culture is accused of replacing traditional western (European) culture so can the native Islamic practises of other regions may be seen under the same cultural onslaught.

pH

Wicknight wrote: »

It is a bit of an inaccurate article.

To say the least

Indo wrote:

So the story gets more interesting. The so-called "Qatif Girl", the truly heroic woman who now faces 200 lashes after being gang-raped had more than just the authorities of this savage kingdom to worry about

See that little word after - it's a bloody disgrace - it's like saying "Fred West was sentenced to life in prison after building a new patio". Yes it's technically correct but the 'journalist' (and I am hesitant to use that word here) is deliberately trying to confuse the reader by implying cause : She was raped -> she needs to be lashed.

Her punishment I believe is for being alone with a man in a car *before* the rape took place - Now I think that this is an abhorrent violation of her rights but why can't this idiot make the real story clear - as it is the story can be legitimately brushed away by a Muslim apologist because it is wrong - and lets them escape the real question - why the hell do you think it's right to beat a woman publicly for being in a car with a man?

We get used to them saying "Oh Islamic women love the hijab and the Islamic rules they live by and the modesty it brings - nothing in Islam is forced on women - Allah demands they live a modest life and they willingly accept it - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3805733.stm etc etc, yet this seems at odds with gangs of perverted mullahs roaming the street ogling women to determine if they've dressed too sexy

As for the honour killing I've never heard that it is sanctioned by Islamic law - I've never heard of a Sharia court sentencing a woman to be killed by her family. He should be arguing that Sharia law is lenient on those who commit these brutal acts, but that is not mentioned in the article, or any evidence for that brought up. Overall a poor polemic easily (and justifiably) brushed aside by those who defend Islam - a pity when there is so much truly indefensible about Islam.

cavedave

I heard Tinky Winky has converted to Islam.

I hope he does not start trying to brainwash kids into Sharia law.

Zombrex

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If you look at the nature of the type of Islam that is currently been spread you’ll find its one which is rooted firmly in the middle-east and bound to the traditional values there.

But that is my point. This (honor killings) isn't a "type of Islam", it has little to do with Islam. It is a tradition rooted in the areas that predates Islam by a thousand years. It is almost non-existent in non-Arabian and Persian Islamic countries.

It would be like saying "I don't like this particular form of Catholicism that the Irish spread where people get drunk a lot and say 'feck' all the time"

As pH points out this incident simply demonstrates how little people in the west understand about Islam, and simply serves to give the Islamic community an excuse to dismiss genuine objections to genuine grievances with Islamic law. If someone said "It is disgusting that Islamic law would whip a woman for being raped" defenders of Islam would simply point out that that isn't why she is being whipped, and then dismiss future criticism as ignorance. It is of course disgusting that a woman would be whipped for being in a car with a non-related male, but that point is just lost in a wash of misdirected and ignorant ranting.

estebancambias

My problem is I find it quite hard reading an article which won't be published for another month.

I really enjoyed that.

BRIAN1956

cavedave wrote: »

I heard Tinky Winky has converted to Islam.

I hope he does not start trying to brainwash kids into Sharia law.

:)

lostexpectation

he's just a bigot, nothing else

Fallen Seraph

lostexpectation wrote: »

he's just a bigot, nothing else

Seconded.

The indo is a rag.

Nerin

he's just a bigot, nothing else

LOL
you know ,you can be a liberal,in no way racist person and laugh/enjoy his articles.

Fallen Seraph

nerin wrote: »

LOL
you know ,you can be a liberal,in no way racist person and laugh/enjoy his articles.

.. uh, what's funny about them? I don't get the joke?

Nerin

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

Fallen Seraph

nerin wrote: »

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

I've never read any others, but this one isn't amusing?

I appreciate offensive humour. But this just isn't. Maybe I'm just not getting it...


Also, I'll happily complain any day of the week about the editorial and opinion content of the Indo. It's consistently insular, willfully ignorant and often just plain stupid.

Nerin

Also, I'll happily complain any day of the week about the editorial and opinion content of the Indo. It's consistently insular, willfully ignorant and often just plain stupid.

well,fair enough,i only read it when my housemate brings it home,or my grandads finished with it at the weekends,but i only really go for ians articles,which is what this thread is about.
read more of his articles,and you mightent think hes a bigot.
he's a grumpy fecker. lol

PDN

nerin wrote: »

well,fair enough,i only read it when my housemate brings it home,or my grandads finished with it at the weekends,but i only really go for ians articles,which is what this thread is about.
read more of his articles,and you mightent think hes a bigot.
he's a grumpy fecker. lol

In a truly rational world I think we would reserve the label of 'bigot' for those who justify whipping a rape victim with 200 lashes for being in a car with a guy. Instead we call a journalist 'bigot' for giving out about it.

condra

Interesting to hear peoples thoughts on this.

Political correctness is a double edged sword.

lostexpectation

PDN wrote: »

In a truly rational world I think we would reserve the label of 'bigot' for those who justify whipping a rape victim with 200 lashes for being in a car with a guy. Instead we call a journalist 'bigot' for giving out about it.

if he knew what he was talking about (as was pointed) out your point might be valid, but he's just vomiting bile, so yes I will criticse him for that.

DapperGent

lol the indo is such fúcking trash.

keano_afc

I find his articles on Islam interesting. However, what annoys me most about him is that he maintains he's an atheist yet nearly every day uses phrases like "for the love of God", "thank God for...". As a Christian I find it confusing for him to refer to a God he claims not to believe in so many times in his column.

MrJoeSoap

keano_afc wrote: »

I find his articles on Islam interesting. However, what annoys me most about him is that he maintains he's an atheist yet nearly every day uses phrases like "for the love of God", "thank God for...". As a Christian I find it confusing for him to refer to a God he claims not to believe in so many times in his column.

I use those phrases all the time and I'm an Atheist. They're common phrases in the culture I've grown up in, it does not indicate that I subconsciously believe.

Barack Obama

Great to find this old thread. IOD is an ignorant twit if ever there was one.

Dades

Um, shouldn't you be saving Western Civilisation instead of dragging up old threads?

Barack Obama

Dades wrote: »

Um, shouldn't you be saving Western Civilisation instead of dragging up old threads?

Step by step

dvpower

Nerin wrote: »

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

He is Kevin Myers Lite.

The Mad Hatter

cavedave wrote: »

I heard Tinky Winky has converted to Islam.

I hope he does not start trying to brainwash kids into Sharia law.

The first sentence of that link was very funny. Shame about the rest.

Fallen Seraph wrote: »

Also, I'll happily complain any day of the week about the editorial and opinion content of the Indo. It's consistently insular, willfully ignorant and often just plain stupid.

The independent doesn't have anything but editorial and opinion content.

Red Hand

Nerin wrote: »

have you read his articles before?
he takes pot shots at everyone,thats the point.
i didnt here anyone complaining when he had a potshot at paris hilton,or a potshot,more on topic,at the westboro baptist church.
he gives out about everyone.
thats the point.

He is a very poor writer imo. Very very lazy, I mean Jesus, he gets paid to write in a newspaper and that's all he comes up with?

I find him very irritating if I hear him on the radio or see him on TV, he comes across as being very self-satisfied and ironic. He should remain in the Student's Union.:pac:

dvpower wrote: »

He is Kevin Myers Lite.

Nail on the head, except that Myers is quite funny at times (or at least used to be funny). Whatshisface is pisspoor.

Nodin

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

The independent doesn't have anything but editorial and opinion content.

Harsh...true though.

Nerin

Old thread is old. I still like ian o doherty.

vinchick

I dont really think the point of the post was debating about the indo.

I read Ian the odd time and he can be hit and miss. This time I must say fair play to him this time for keeping the issue of women and Islam in the media. It is frightening what goes on and the lack of action to tackle it is pathetic.

Nodin

vinchick wrote: »

I dont really think the point of the post was debating about the indo.

I read Ian the odd time and he can be hit and miss. This time I must say fair play to him this time for keeping the issue of women and Islam in the media. It is frightening what goes on and the lack of action to tackle it is pathetic.

Compared to violence against Women in Latin America and the plight of Women (and widows and lower caste women in particular) in India its all over the place. Dying down now though, as the Americans don't have a foriegn expedition to justify.

vinchick

Nodin wrote: »

Compared to violence against Women in Latin America and the plight of Women (and widows and lower caste women in particular) in India its all over the place. Dying down now though, as the Americans don't have a foriegn expedition to justify.

The situation in Latin America is terrifying. I did some work on raising awareness on that in back in the day and the extent of the violence is shocking and not talked about much at all. Prob because it is a constant and the media dont particulary like to keep talking about the same thing (unless its the doom and gloom of the recession). The violence in India has been reported on alot, I know Oprah (for all that you could say about her) did a very good expose on the practie of acid throwing in India if a woman rejects you, and the laws which can deny a woman access to her children in seperation cases. Pretty good stuff for daytime TV. There was also a very good one on domestic violence in India shown on TG4 a while ago, on Fiorsceal I think.

It happens everywhere and for many its much more managable to pick one practice and focus on that. Ian has picked the middle east it seems.

robindch

Don't remember this article, but gosh:

IOD wrote:

No, my Muslim friend, it's your religion and your Sharia law I am criticising. It has nothing to do with the colour of your skin. And you know what? In a free democracy we still have the right to say things like that.

With outrage like that to call upon, the man should put down his biro, get up out of his armchair and do something.

Would I be right in thinking he hasn't?

Phototoxin

I can't stand The Indo and I can't stand Ian O' Doherty but I'll give it to him that he got it right in that article, but then even a stopped clock gets it right twice a day.

+1 he's a bit of a muppet but sometimes has a valid point.

Nodin

Phototoxin wrote: »

+1 he's a bit of a muppet but sometimes has a valid point.

Yes, but it tends to be after the fashion of a broken clock being sometimes correct..

Phototoxin

hence why I put '+1' as in 'I concur'