Alfa's any good?

Wrong Forum, post in the 'Should I buy an Alfa' forum.

dmck wrote:

Folks,
The missus wants to buy a 2001 Alfa Romeo 1.6 TS, 8,500 ono (bit pricey for me), usual spec, 31k on the clock,car looks ok on paper, i have heard very bads things about the Alfa Romeo's, in your opion is this substatianted? I am trying to steer her in the direction of a second hand Focus. What do you think?

Ta

I'd agree it's too pricey. The Focus is an excellent car, certainly much more practical than a 156. You're clearly not happy with the Alfa. Surely this is enough to make up your mind?

For what it's worth - the Alfa 156 is in my opinion an excellent car. Regarding reliability, you hear a lot about them, and there can be no smoke without fire. However, when we did a poll here of people who had actually owned an Alfa, almost 80% said they would buy one again. Personally I never had a problem with my 156, or with any of the 5 that my company ran at that time. I've never had a Focus, so I cannot comment on them reliability wise (this rule does not seem to apply to Alfas - if you know someone who heard that someone else's grandmother's dog was once hit by an Alfa, this is enough to loudly proclaim how crap the cars are)

Let me put it this way: if your wife is passionate about cars, wants the best second hand deal on the market, wants one of the best looking saloon cars ever made, and is willing to spend a bit more on servicing, she should buy the Alfa 156. Otherwise she should buy the Focus.

If you do decide on an Alfa, you should get an 01 1.6 for about 7500. There isn't much difference in the cost for bigger engine size, so if you can take the tax & insurance, go for the 1.8 or 2.0. The diesels are deservedly more expensive.

Have a search of this forum for common problems with the 156 so that you're not buying blind.

Oh, and enjoy the Focus !

eoin_s wrote:

The 1.6 actually tends to have a higher resale value than the 1.8 and 2.0 litre engines, even though their list price is lower when new. This is probably because they are rarer, and only came out in 2000.

In Ireland the 1.6 is cheaper to tax, insure and fill at the pump than the 1.8, 2.0 or 2.5 so demand for the 1.6 tends to be higher.

ds20prefecture wrote:

No doubt you're right. The 1.6 is certainly more tax & insurance friendly which could help it's case. I still think €8500 for a 5y.o. alfa is stretching it.

Compared to what car? The focuses from the same year seem to be averaging higher prices.

ds20prefecture wrote:

legions of ill-informed VW and BMW fans droning on about how unreliable Alfas are. That's one helluva smear campaign, and it's really hit the resale value of the 156. As a result, it is the best used purchase on the market.

the fact is that the 156 was flavour of the month 6 years ago, and that they have numerous weak points and aren't exactly in short supply, that's why it is the best used purchase on the market, not because of any smear campaign!

oh gawd, not another......here goes......

I have had 156 (99) from new. No issues, done 80k miles now. Know about 5 other 156 owners. Only one had gearbox problem. I also know a Passat and Golf owner who has regular engin e warning lamps (about every 3 months)

Some facts now:
- variator is a real issues. Check if it has been changed
- wishbones on suspension are prone problem which only causes a squeky sound when goes over bumps.
- V6 is heavy on juice and front brakes (discs and rotors)
- MAF unit seems to cause rough idle on some cars (check it also)
- Dealers are sh*8te

IMHO, the 1.8 is probably a better option than 1.6

On my third Alfa. 1st: 156 1.8TS Lusso. 2nd 156 2.0TS Sportivo. 3rd (current ride) 147 1.6TS Lusso. No problems at all with any of them that I would let put me off buying another. Dealer - Michael Barrable - hasn't given me any reason to complain. They gave me a discount on a new 16" Alloy and tyre when I hit a nasty pot-hole in the 2.0 TS.

Of the 3 the 156 2.0 was my favorite - loads of power - nice trim and often brought a smile to my face due to it's lively performance - gave a few 318s and 1.8T Golfs a run for their money.

My advice is buy from a garage if over 2 years old for peace of mind and a guarantee. If possible from a main dealer as I've seen some terrible work by some non-dealers on a friends 156 - drives fine but some covers and cowlings not properly replaced in the engine bay and although the dealer said it was "fully serviced" it had an old oil and air filter.

Keep an eye on the oil level though - they tent to be thirsty !!

ZEN

alias no.9 wrote:

Here's the best bit, I got it for €4500 cash with a 6 month warrenty

The best bit indeed. About the same price as a same year / same mileage Nissan Micra 1.0

Happy motoring...

flanzer wrote:

Was in McAllisters in Airside the other day nosin' around and overheard a guy looking to trade in a 2001 Alfa 156 2.0 with 36000 miles, and a blown engine :eek: !! I'm not a mechanic but this says it all really.......

Don't know how much he got as the sales guy had to ring 101 other sales people to see if anyone would be interested!

He probably never checked the oil. The 156 drinks a lot of oil, and the oil level has to be checked regularly. This may be particular to Alfas, but in my opinion, a small price to pay for the drive.

Tiger Jim wrote:

The Alfas are great to look at and drive, but the Focus is a great car to drive too. Jezza Clarkson has a 1.6 one and he loves it. I have a TDCi and it is quick enough to keep up with most Alfas.

Clarkson is an idiot. The Focus is still an excellent car. The 156 is a better car in some, but not all areas. The Alfa would be the enthusiast's buy.

hellboy99 wrote:

stay away from them unless of course your a wealthy mechanic with a lot of spare time

good for you.

ds20prefecture wrote:

Regarding numerous weak points, I believe they have no more than most. i.e. Front wishbone bushes are weak, the timing chain interval was halved from 70000 to 35000 miles and ... ? Variator issue is not critical - it causes a diesely sound when cold.
Compare to, say, and Audi A4 of similar vintage:
Coil packs failure on 1.8T, mutitronic gearbox failure, waterpump failure on some models (1.6, 2.0 and v6 petrols)
.

You cannot argue that a 156 is more reliable than an A4, can you?

............and you would accept that reliability on 156's is below average?

ds20prefecture wrote:

Mods: How often can we have the same thread without there being a sticky?

I think one is required alright.

I wonder sometimes though if Ford had brought out the 156 and Alfa the Focus would people still rave about the car with the Alfa badge.

ds20prefecture wrote:

I would not. What do you base your assertion on? Hearsay? You work in the service side of the motor trade, right? Surely you of all people understand the difference between rumour and fact. E.g. "BMWs never break down" - of course they do. The number of new shape 5-series I've seen on the back of AA trucks beggars belief (I'd estimate 10 since the car was launched). This does not mean that BMWs are unreliable.

I put 45000 faultless miles on my 2.0 156. My brother drove his 1.8 to 100000 miles, also without major fault. He wept when he was forced to sell it for a Scenic. The other 5 156s in my company at the time exhibited no faults whatsoever. These were 1.6 to 2.5 cars, from 99 to 2003. By contrast, we ran two Mercedes C classes also, and they were both back to the dealer within 3 months for alarm, electrical and trim issues.

I read a lot about 156's reliability on these forums, primarily from people who have not run a 156. 80% of those who have owned an Alfa would buy one again. That's enough for me. I would buy a 156 again. The only other car that I have owned that I would buy again is my DS. My wife has a Skoda Octavia - it's a great car, very hard to criticise, and as faultless as my Alfa was. I'd rather burn myself to death than do another 5 years in an Octavia. Alas, I'll need to dig out my lighter, as the car is my wife's.

Most cars are appliances these days. The 156 was a breath of fresh air in a sea of teutonic mediocrity. Can you picture yourself weeping as you sell your focus/Octavia/Golf/3-series?

I will concede that the Alfa dealer network contribute vigourously to the brand's reputation for poor reliability. They are certainly below average. By contrast, there are Alfa specialists who are both cheaper and better than the main dealers - use them regularly and you won't regret it.

Mods: How often can we have the same thread without there being a sticky?

i wouldn't buy into the BMW's never break down thing. i know they do, and when the do it'll be expensive. I have owned Italian cars in the past, and have found that their character and relatively low price make up for any problems the car might have. While i don't think Alfas are reliable (i know first hand that most aren't) I will agree that some owners don't have problems, but i think in 2006 that people shouldn't have to put up with the sorts of problems european cars give you.

ds20prefecture wrote:

That's a bit of a generalisation. If you heed half of what you hear, German cars never ever ever break down. Swedish cars rarely. French, Italian and British cars every single day. You'd be licky to get to the bottom of your driveway with one of those. The Skoda Octavia has been nominated by the Pope for a sainthood, for it's crushing competence in the face of demand for innovation.

Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi are 95% porridge. Grey sludge that will satisfy you till lunchtime. Mazda are 80% the same. Their 20% is very sweet though. Honda - They're kind of a ready-brek. It's still grey, it still sludge, but it will keep you going till tea time.

A Ford Focus is like a really good kebab. Cheap, tasty, zesty, memorable.

An Alfa 156 is like the early bird in Jabob's Ladder. The best meal of that class served with style and with a suprisingly small bill at the end of the night.

For half two in the morning the above is sheer genius, my tea was coming out my nose by the time i got to the Octavia bit!

Bluehair wrote:

Reliability issues aside what are they really like to drive? It is still fwd though right?

They're shockingly cheap at the moment, there's a 98 2.0 litre 156 going in Galway here for a shade under 4 grand.

that cars worth not more than 2200-2500 maximum from ros.ie
DATE: 22 January 2006 TIME: 08:43

STATISTICAL CODE: 40285016
MAKE: ALFA ROMEO
MODEL: 156
VERSION: 2.0 TS 16V 04DR / SALOON / MANUAL / PETROL ONLY /
MILEAGE: 65000 MILES

The information requested in respect of the vehicle shown is indicated below.
DATE OF FIRST REGISTRATION(MM/YY): JANUARY 1998
OPEN MARKET SELLING PRICE:
(applicable on enquiry date) €1839
RATE OF TAX: 30.0%
VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX:
(payable on enquiry date) €551

at the end of the day i know for a fact if u are offered a company car in work for aib u can have any car to a price except one-- alfa. they have had to many problems with them ,where people dont show up for work. mayb they are on the back of low loaders or mayb they are out tearing around country lanes with a grin claiming the car didnt start. who knows? i suppose unless one owns an alfa one will never know.
one thing i do know is they depreciate like the clappers, when u go to trade against a mainstream german car no one will take the trade in unless they can dispose of it within the trade.

lol

toffeapple wrote:

OK lets settle this with some stats

We already did. 80% of boards users that owned Alfas would buy one again.

I guess the reason is that Alfas are a choice of motoring enthusiasts, who accept the need for a greater level of care in exchange for the greater level of driver satisfaction. Which is why I suggested the OP to buy a focus unless his wife is a motoring enthusiast.

I accept people who like cars will probably like Alfas (I think they look lovely, but at this stage in my life I would rather something *guaranteed* to work, I cant afford repairs/high maintenace costs. It also happens I dont top up the fluids in my 11year old mondeo between services, and will be damned if I have to do so with a new car). For me a focus would be a better buy, especially when it is a more capable car (in my opinion, and I dont mean it is more *fun* to drive).

The argument about Merc owners being more discerning than Skoda owners is nonsense since a) It doesnt explain lexus, jaguar etc etc b) It ignores the fact Mercedes have major major issues (a reative took Belgard to court last year over an e-class) c) It presumes Skoda owners just moved on from the horse and cart/Austin Allegro.

maidhc wrote:

but at this stage in my life I would rather something *guaranteed* to work

Without meaning to be facetious, a new Alfa IS guaranteed to work, for 3 years or 36000 miles. This is as good or better than the guarantees that you get with any car.

RANT: Not directed at anyone in particular (certainly not you, maidhc):

What drives me absolutely nuts is how people who have never owned or even driven an Alfa will drag themselves into a discussion about Alfas to repeat rhetoric that they have heard 3rd or 4th hand. For example, why is nobody jumping into the Golf GTi vs 320i SE thread to say that a Toyota Avensis is more reliable than either of them, and it scores better in Top Gear and JD Power surveys, and so on. I know a guy who had major problems with his Mk IV Golf GTi - but I would not for a second assume that all mk IV golf GTis are badly built cars. However when the word Alfa is mentioned, the world and it's mother comes out of the woodwork to advise everyone away from them.

I think this is caused by the herd mentality of Irish car buyers. Alfa are a low volume car manufacturer, whose products by-and-large reflect a different set of priorities on behalf of the prospective owner. They sell to people who want style over practicality, entertaining handling instead of grip, a great exhaust note instead of economy and a sense of individuality instead of a BMW 3 series. The herd see this, and don't like it. Anything not part of the herd is a threat. Non-conformists are the enemy.

By and large, this goes unnoticed, because low volume manufacturers don't sell in large enough volumes to appear on the consciousness of the great unwashed. However, when they have a "hit" - as with the 156, they suddenly appear everywhere and the herd find themselves disturbed from their cud-chewing at the wheel of their grey Octavia/Avensis/3-series and challenged by this beautiful shape, this raspy exhaust note and (most worryingly) this excellent value. This can't be right! There must be something wrong, and it can't be the herd. Ah, there's a glimmer of hope that these Alfa 156s may not be the most robust car ever made. Whoo Hoo! Now the herd are vindicated - only reckless fools drive those Alfas - pass the word, they are the most unreliable car ever made. Phew! now back to my cud in my safe little bourge-mobile.

/rant
PS: I own a grey Octavia