Middle class people deciding to go on the dole ?

24-01-2020 9:12pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

She's clearing close to 5k net a month as a single mother on benefits with three kids?

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

starbaby2003 · 24-01-2020 9:20pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

Can you quantify those figures ? The amount the father gives would remain irrespective of work or not. However I understand the amount given by the father is deducted from the single parents allowance ?

24-01-2020 9:28pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Can you quantify those figures ? The amount the father gives would remain irrespective of work or not. However I understand the amount given by the father is deducted from the single parents allowance ?

Ah Tbh, I'm not going to give my friends details on here! But the maintenance is in cash & is not declared.
She's not doing anything wrong, apart from not declaring that. She receives what she is entitled to, the point is that it honestly wouldn't pay her to go to work & pay for childcare etc.

beggars_bush · 24-01-2020 9:33pm

Having children shouldn't entitle you to be able to live off the state for nothing

Not much prospect for those children I'm afraid if their main care cover has zero ambition for her life

starbaby2003 · 24-01-2020 9:36pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah Tbh, I'm not going to give my friends details on here! But the maintenance is in cash & is not declared.
She's not doing anything wrong, apart from not declaring that. She receives what she is entitled to, the point is that it honestly wouldn't pay her to go to work & pay for childcare etc.

I doubt figures would identify someone. There is a massive difference between needing to earn a100k to maintain the same level of income and it not paying to work. We hear a lot of these stories of friends, neighbours etc but when the real figures are shown usually the ‘big income’ they get is rent allowance or HAP. People forget that it’s not their fault a two bed flat now in Ballygobakwards cost around 1800€ to rent. I think these stories are damaging and unhelpful to people who are in situations where they are reliant on social welfare.

andekwarhola · 24-01-2020 9:37pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though

What has a stipend from her father got to do with benefits.

Also, now that's cleared - how is she clearing 4k net for her and 3 kids?

starbaby2003 · 24-01-2020 9:44pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I doubt figures would identify someone. There is a massive difference between needing to earn a100k to maintain the same level of income and it not paying to work. We hear a lot of these stories of friends, neighbours etc but when the real figures are shown usually the ‘big income’ they get is rent allowance or HAP. People forget that it’s not their fault a two bed flat now in Ballygobakwards cost around 1800€ to rent. I think these stories are damaging and unhelpful to people who are in situations where they are reliant on social welfare.

So 305 a week - single parent 3X kids under 12. This is what the social welfare are saying she gets. Clearly NO exaggeration on your part

24-01-2020 10:42pm

machaseh wrote: »

You could yes, respectable trades such as stealing copper wires or breaking into homes and taking their belongings are generally cash based !

you didn't pick up on my sarcasm.

All jokes aside though, where I used to live, everyone and their dogs were 'on the double' as they called it.

Steer55 · 25-01-2020 9:02am

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

When her youngest child turns 12, I believe she will have to go out to work.

hurler32 · 25-01-2020 10:57am

If you are a working in a couple set up with 3 kids plus and only one is working and earning less than 45K- in that scenario if you take on a mortgage with payments of 700 plus you are worse off than the same couple on benefits with their rent allowance.

Bottom line middle income people with a mortgage can be worse off than benefits cases with no mortgage....if you earn 70K of course you are better off working but not by as much as you think. Single people are nearly always better off working but not couples with one income and a mortgage or indeed having to pay their own rent.

machaseh · 26-01-2020 7:40pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

The main problem for the middle class in Dublin is simply that too many people are trying to work in too small an area. What the f does that have to do with people being on the dole?

There isn't enough housing in greater Dublin and we lack an adequate transport infrastructure to bring people from surrounding counties where housing is reasonably affordable into the city. There are only three possible solutions to this:
Increase the density of housing in Dublin city. This would require compulsory purchase orders on low rise parts of the inner city. Would also require the planning laws to be changed to allow high rise apartment buildings in the city centre. No government has had the balls to do either of these.

Build a proper grown-up transport system e.g. an actual subway for city proper and light rail network reaching out into the surrounding counties. This should have been done long ago but is again something the parties don't seem to have the nerve to do as it is expensive in the short term and would also require compulsory purchase orders in order to build it out.

Massively decentralize both private and public employment. This has been tried using various carrot and stick approaches, both with the civil service and with grants etc. to private industry to encourage relocation to other parts of the country. It largely hasn't worked, or hasn't worked to a sufficient degree. Of all possible solutions it is the least likely to succeed as it requires both individuals and companies to co-operate, something that is almost impossible to force them to do.

The logical solution is to expand the city outwards and upwards, build better transport links (not just another Luas branch line or other half arsed childish nonsense) and then do all of the things that other cities do to reduce congestion in city centers (e.g. congestion charges, having a subway for internal movement, etc.).

All of this is expensive. All of it requires a certain amount of short-term sacrifice both by the tax payer and by people who will be affected by construction etc. Certain areas would basically have to be bulldozed in order to do it - the sort of thing that cities like Paris and New York went through in the 19th and 20th centuries in order to modernize.

The problem is that with planning and infrastructure projects like this we only seem to think in the short term and are massively unambitious. We could have built a subway during the boom but nobody had the balls or foresight to push it through. I don't know if anyone else here has noticed but we live in a ridiculously wet climate. Having people standing around at bus stops and Luas stops is moronic. Dart stations aren't much better. Hence everyone wants to sit in their car to get to their job.

The commuter situation in Dublin is simply down to a childish refusal on the part of populace to support these measures and cowardice on the part of various governments to push them through. We're just reaping what we've sown.

Trying to blame people on the dole (!) for the craptastic situation of middle class commuters in Dublin who are squeezed between ridiculously high housing costs versus insane commuter journeys is a perfect example of scapegoating. If the dole and housing allowances were eradicated tomorrow it would do zilch to solve this problem.

I honestly wouldnt mind to live in a town such as Gorey or so, where the housing is still sort of affordable. But I am visually impaired and cannot drive a car, so how am I supposed to get to work? A train that takes 2,5 hours to roll to Dublin? A bus that goes once or twice a day?

I have to live in this kip in order to be able to live and work sadly.

And even if I would have a car, the traffic on that route is pretty terrible.

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 7:45pm

[quote="machaseh;112360760"I have to live in this kip in order to be able to live and work sadly.

[/quote]

No, you don’t. You’re not from this country and could easily go back to the utopia you come from if you hated it here that much.

You choose to be here.

the dark phantom · 26-01-2020 7:52pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment I'm just wondering if people have packed in their jobs to go on the dole because it wasn't worth their while working.

Lets put it this way I'm in university now and I have a house. :pac:

machaseh · 26-01-2020 8:33pm

KiKi III wrote: »

No, you don’t. You’re not from this country and could easily go back to the utopia you come from if you hated it here that much.

You choose to be here.

Xenophobic much?

I pay taxes in this country and I am a legal resident. Not everyone can just pack up and leave their job from one day to the other, there is also such a thing as a CV that you want to look nice. Job hopping every six months or every year does not make for a proper CV.

I have been taught that 2-3 years is a proper time for one role. Now, my last job (also dublin by the way) I stayed for only 1,5 year because it was an absolute sh1te callcenter role and I got a MUCH better paying and more interesting role elsewhere in Dubln. But I wouldnt make it a habit of job hopping every 1,5 years. So given that, I am stuck here for at least 1-2 more years.

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 8:40pm

machaseh wrote: »

Xenophobic much?

I pay taxes in this country and I am a legal resident. Not everyone can just pack up and leave their job from one day to the other, there is also such a thing as a CV that you want to look nice. Job hopping every six months or every year does not make for a proper CV.

I have been taught that 2-3 years is a proper time for one role. Now, my last job (also dublin by the way) I stayed for only 1,5 year because it was an absolute sh1te callcenter role and I got a MUCH better paying and more interesting role elsewhere in Dubln. But I wouldnt make it a habit of job hopping every 1,5 years. So given that, I am stuck here for at least 1-2 more years.

My point is that you don’t “have to live in this kip”.

You choose to.

You’re choosing to develop your career here.

Nobody is forcing you to.

Always Tired · 26-01-2020 8:43pm

Unsurprisingly, many people in this thread seem to be unaware that if one person in a couple is working full time the other person may not get the dole or will get a very reduced rate.

Check the citizens information website, it's all there. I once shared 2 different houses during the recession with same female housemate, we had been college friends. I remember the dole office questioning me about were we a couple and when I asked why they said that if we were it would affect my payment, even though she only worked part time in Aldi. I guess as they weren't stuck having to houseshare for years on end due to the recession they couldn't grasp how hard it was to find housemates you got on with and so would rather stay with a sound one rather than risk a nightmare one (plus our deposits were paid together and lease up the same time)

Even despite them accepting that we werent a couple, they still denied me fuel allowance on the basis that there was someone in the household working (again, part time at Aldi, not exactly making a mint). They also denied me rent allowance saying my rent was too high. It was actually average but they had recently changed the rules to make the threshold very low, so people would either not qualify or would have to get their landlord to say it was lower so they could qualify and make up the difference themselves.

And this is why all the sweaty, moronic blowhards who come on here to dole bash will NEVER do as the OP suggests. Because the land of free everything isn't really there, it's a lot harder to qualify for stuff than you think, especially if you don't have kids and especially when you are recently unemployed.

You have to be on the council housing list, which means being assessed as having a housing need (ie: nowhere to go, no family with a room) just to get rent allowance. HAP, good luck finding a landlord that will take it.

You have to be a year on the dole to get fuel allowance. And you need to be on it a year to get the Christmas bonus as well.

But don't let facts get in the way of the narrative that everything is given for free to people who dont work, so 'we should all pack in our jobs, herp derp'.

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 8:54pm

Always Tired wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, many people in this thread seem to be unaware that if one person in a couple is working full time the other person may not get the dole or will get a very reduced rate.

Check the citizens information website, it's all there. I once shared 2 different houses during the recession with same female housemate, we had been college friends. I remember the dole office questioning me about were we a couple and when I asked why they said that if we were it would affect my payment, even though she only worked part time in Aldi. I guess as they weren't stuck having to houseshare for years on end due to the recession they couldn't grasp how hard it was to find housemates you got on with and so would rather stay with a sound one rather than risk a nightmare one (plus our deposits were paid together and lease up the same time)

Even despite them accepting that we werent a couple, they still denied me fuel allowance on the basis that there was someone in the household working (again, part time at Aldi, not exactly making a mint). They also denied me rent allowance saying my rent was too high. It was actually average but they had recently changed the rules to make the threshold very low, so people would either not qualify or would have to get their landlord to say it was lower so they could qualify and make up the difference themselves.

And this is why all the sweaty, moronic blowhards who come on here to dole bash will NEVER do as the OP suggests. Because the land of free everything isn't really there, it's a lot harder to qualify for stuff than you think, especially if you don't have kids and especially when you are recently unemployed.

You have to be on the council housing list, which means being assessed as having a housing need (ie: nowhere to go, no family with a room) just to get rent allowance. HAP, good luck finding a landlord that will take it.

You have to be a year on the dole to get fuel allowance. And you need to be on it a year to get the Christmas bonus as well.

But don't let facts get in the way of the narrative that everything is given for free to people who dont work, so 'we should all pack in our jobs, herp derp'.

Not to mention the fact that unemployment is very low at the moment.

Don’t let that stop anyone from bitching about scroungers.

Big Gerry · 26-01-2020 9:12pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that unemployment is very low at the moment.

Don’t let that stop anyone from bitching about scroungers.

The unemployment figures are fantasy.

The welfare budget is higher now than it was at the peak of the crash.

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 9:15pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

The unemployment figures are fantasy.

The welfare budget is higher now than it was at the peek of the crash.

The welfare budget includes pensions, children’s allowance etc that will always increase in line with the population.

anewme · 26-01-2020 9:16pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

If they are not taking a big drop then they are not middle class as having very low disposable income, comparable to social welfare, would put them firmly in the working class category.

Hmm, I'm not sure.

Was it not calculated, Ms. Cash had c 49,000 net income on the social.

Taking out 50k is certainly middle class territory.

Big Gerry · 26-01-2020 9:20pm

KiKi III wrote: »

The welfare budget includes pensions, children’s allowance etc that will always increase in line with the population.

We have one of the highest levels of jobless households in the Europe.

The unemployment figures are a complete joke.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jobless-households-3832381-Feb2018/

JDigweed · 26-01-2020 9:23pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

I used to think the same thing until my wife resigned to mind the kids. Let me tell you now you are in no way left alone and handed 200 quid a week social welfare and given a house. Doesn't work like that. Your expected to find work, do some training courses and report your progress to the welfare office or get no payments.

Petedakota · 26-01-2020 9:27pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

We have one of the highest levels of jobless households in the Europe.

The unemployment figures are a complete joke.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jobless-households-3832381-Feb2018/

The CSO and government lie about people on the live register?

Nonsense.

The high jobless household figure shows the growing welfare class in Ireland, I.e. the can work wont work brigade.

Big Gerry · 26-01-2020 9:55pm

Petedakota wrote: »

The CSO and government lie about people on the live register?

Nonsense.

The high jobless household figure shows the growing welfare class in Ireland, I.e. the can work wont work brigade.

They don't necessarily lie but government can move people on to courses and other benefits etc to make the unemployment numbers look better.

We have massive numbers of people on "disability" which are not counted as unemployed.

The government have moved a lot of unemployed people on to disability.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/the-mystery-of-disability/

Idbatterim · 26-01-2020 9:58pm

super_furry wrote: »

No. People don't do that because it's a **** life.

You seriously seem to have a complete lack of understanding of the housing system if you think you can just rock up, hand the keys back on your mortgaged home and ask for a council house.

All you need is a kid or two and do be a “single “ mother. They’ll sort you out sharpish. Two weeks in the case of a woman I know. So yeah , but a five hundred k place , few hundred k on mortgage! Or live out of a hotel for two weeks and get a place rent / debt free. No lpt. Management fee etc ...

Sleeper12 · 26-01-2020 10:02pm

Big Gerry wrote:

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

There arent too many middle class people who can survive on dole payments.

Social welfare stopped paying towards mortgage payments well over 10 years ago. The mentioned middle class people will almost instantly fall behind on the mortgage payments.

hurler32 · 26-01-2020 10:23pm

anewme wrote: »

Hmm, I'm not sure.

Was it not calculated, Ms. Cash had c 49,000 net income on the social.

Taking out 50k is certainly middle class territory.

The biggest issue with the welfare bill is there are 70,000 travellers drawing off it with none or bordering on none working or ever worked . With families of 7-8 Children each the payments including housing their disposable income is well in excess of what middle income working familys have left after they pay a mortgage. This group of people is growing far more rapidly due to the large family's so they make up a very large percentage of the unemployment numbers but the PC brigade will ensure this is never spoken about .

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 11:42pm

Big Gerry wrote: »

We have one of the highest levels of jobless households in the Europe.

The unemployment figures are a complete joke.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jobless-households-3832381-Feb2018/

You couldn’t be more wrong if you actually tried.

Bizarre that you would choose figures from two years ago when the latest ones released in October show a very different story.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1088780/

KiKi III · 26-01-2020 11:44pm

hurler32 wrote: »

The biggest issue with the welfare bill is there are 70,000 travellers drawing off it with none or bordering on none working or ever worked . With families of 7-8 Children each the payments including housing their disposable income is well in excess of what middle income working familys have left after they pay a mortgage. This group of people is growing far more rapidly due to the large family's so they make up a very large percentage of the unemployment numbers but the PC brigade will ensure this is never spoken about .

Again, you must be actually trying to get the figures wrong. The entire traveller population in Ireland is approximately 30k.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/911844/

But don’t let facts get in the way of your arguments.

Big Gerry · 27-01-2020 12:50am

KiKi III wrote: »

You couldn’t be more wrong if you actually tried.

Bizarre that you would choose figures from two years ago when the latest ones released in October show a very different story.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1088780/

You sound like a government spokesperson.

Only a fool would take official unemployment figures at face value.

Richard Hillman · 27-01-2020 1:26am

I have seen a lot more of college graduates from middle class families that stay in their part time jobs after college on the basis of "what's the point?". My work place is littered with them. And these are not gender studies type degrees.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-01-2020 1:31am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I have seen a lot more of college graduates from middle class families that stay in their part time jobs after college on the basis of "what's the point?". My work place is littered with them. And these are not gender studies type degrees.

A lot of them have help though or live at home or have family money.

I am not judging. I am just saying....its not the same.

KiKi III · 27-01-2020 9:04am

Big Gerry wrote: »

You sound like a government spokesperson.

Only a fool would take official unemployment figures at face value.

So I should take your makey uppy angry anonymous internet posts instead?

machaseh · 27-01-2020 9:22am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I have seen a lot more of college graduates from middle class families that stay in their part time jobs after college on the basis of "what's the point?". My work place is littered with them. And these are not gender studies type degrees.

I dont get why Irish parents allow their offspring to stay at home until the age of 30 or even beyond? This is really bad form where I come from (the Netherlands).

You can stay at home while you study, as the rent for a room in the city is often expensive (even so many prefer to go live on their own to live the student life). And maybe even when you are just starting to work until you can afford a mortgage. But sitting at home all day and doing nothing, or perhaps only a part time job is going to be a reason for most parents to kick you out eventually.

I saw this with a lot of my former coworkers too, due to a redundancy (which luckily happened after I left) about 100 or so people all lost their jobs. Many of the Irish people in this job just sat at home on the dole for over half a year. This would not be acceptable to parents in my country for the most part (although there are of course always exceptions).

What the Irish often seem to lack is a sense of discipline.

KiKi III · 27-01-2020 9:40am

machaseh wrote: »

I dont get why Irish parents allow their offspring to stay at home until the age of 30 or even beyond? This is really bad form where I come from (the Netherlands).

You can stay at home while you study, as the rent for a room in the city is often expensive (even so many prefer to go live on their own to live the student life). And maybe even when you are just starting to work until you can afford a mortgage. But sitting at home all day and doing nothing, or perhaps only a part time job is going to be a reason for most parents to kick you out eventually.

I saw this with a lot of my former coworkers too, due to a redundancy (which luckily happened after I left) about 100 or so people all lost their jobs. Many of the Irish people in this job just sat at home on the dole for over half a year. This would not be acceptable to parents in my country for the most part (although there are of course always exceptions).

What the Irish often seem to lack is a sense of discipline.

Hard to believe you accused me of xenophobia a few posts up given your latent anti-Irishness.

You seem woefully unaware of our recent history. Just 10 years ago the country was devastated as a national recession was compounded by a global recession. Youth unemployment was rife because so many jobs were lost. Emigration skyrocketed but for those who felt that wasn't an option, for many there were few other options than going on the dole and living at home.

The decimation of the construction sector left young working-class men in particular devastated.

This applied even among the professional classes as there was a hiring freeze in the public service so those who had spent years qualifying as teachers or nurses had no opportunity to find work upon graduation.

As the country has recovered, it has done so unevenly. And because we're now the EMEA headquarters for many companies like yours that hire well-paid Europeans to come and work here (which isn't a problem in itself) housing supply is under pressure driving rents beyond the means of an average young person.

While I haven't lived with my parents since the age of 17, I often say if my parents lived in Dublin, I absolutely would. Why? Because it would save me literally €10k/year.

Ash.J.Williams · 27-01-2020 9:50am

Big Gerry wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment I'm just wondering if people have packed in their jobs to go on the dole because it wasn't worth their while working.

i don't think if i packed in my job and danced into the social welfare i'd walk out with dole/free house/medical card...

last time i was temporarily out of work i received 180 a week in jobseekers, and that was it. It definitely focused me on getting back to work asap.

Hector Savage · 27-01-2020 9:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

We get it. Your life is shlt and you're annoyed that other people seemingly have it easier.

Do us a favour and just quit your job so you can report back to us on how good it was and tell us about how you don't hate your miserable existence anymore. You'll also have plenty of time to read the seventeen million other dole threads on this site.

w0w ... the guy has a point tho ! Why this attack ?

machaseh · 27-01-2020 9:53am

KiKi III wrote: »

Hard to believe you accused me of xenophobia a few posts up given your latent anti-Irishness.

You seem woefully unaware of our recent history. Just 10 years ago the country was devastated as a national recession was compounded by a global recession. Youth unemployment was rife because so many jobs were lost. Emigration skyrocketed but for those who felt that wasn't an option, for many there were few other options than going on the dole and living at home.

The decimation of the construction sector left young working-class men in particular devastated.

This applied even among the professional classes as there was a hiring freeze in the public service so those who had spent years qualifying as teachers or nurses had no opportunity to find work upon graduation.

As the country has recovered, it has done so unevenly. And because we're now the EMEA headquarters for many companies like yours that hire well-paid Europeans to come and work here (which isn't a problem in itself) housing supply is under pressure driving rents beyond the means of an average young person.

While I haven't lived with my parents since the age of 17, I often say if my parents lived in Dublin, I absolutely would. Why? Because it would save me literally €10k/year.

That crisis was not a problem only in Ireland, but in most of the developed world, yes even in the Netherlands.

Yet we didnt see people staying at home until their 30s in my country, while this is very common in Ireland even to this day.

As for Europeans taking up housing space in Dublin; I have said before that I honestly would not mind to live in say Gorey or Wicklow Town or Arklow or the like. But the sh1te public transportation in this country makes this physically impossible for me to do.

KiKi III · 27-01-2020 10:24am

machaseh wrote: »

That crisis was not a problem only in Ireland, but in most of the developed world, yes even in the Netherlands.

Yet we didnt see people staying at home until their 30s in my country, while this is very common in Ireland even to this day.

As for Europeans taking up housing space in Dublin; I have said before that I honestly would not mind to live in say Gorey or Wicklow Town or Arklow or the like. But the sh1te public transportation in this country makes this physically impossible for me to do.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post in its entirety. As I pointed out, Ireland had a national recession caused by internal factors at the same time the global financial crisis took place. Only Portugal, Italy and Greece suffered similarly.

Gorey is 80km away. It’s not a commuter town. It’s bizarre that you feel the government should cater to a very tiny minority who don’t drive yet want to commute extremely long distance. Having commuter trains to Gorey would make next to no sense economically. If you want to live in Gorey, get a job in Gorey.

machaseh · 27-01-2020 10:44am

KiKi III wrote: »

Perhaps you didn’t read my post in its entirety. As I pointed out, Ireland had a national recession caused by internal factors at the same time the global financial crisis took place. Only Portugal, Italy and Greece suffered similarly.

Gorey is 80km away. It’s not a commuter town. It’s bizarre that you feel the government should cater to a very tiny minority who don’t drive yet want to commute extremely long distance. Having commuter trains to Gorey would make next to no sense economically. If you want to live in Gorey, get a job in Gorey.

Many of my colleagues live in Gorey and the like, but they need to go by car (and even by car the traffic on the motorway is pretty bad). Gorey is maybe a little bit extreme, but the other towns are already a lot closer.

Such a commuter distance is very normal in the Netherlands due to our excellent public transportation, can't say that of Ireland. Because of this I am basically ' trapped' in super expensive Dublin, and indeed taking up valuable housing space that real Dubliners could have taken up otherwise. Not out of choice but out of necessity.

Bigbagofcans · 27-01-2020 11:09am

hurler32 wrote: »

The biggest issue with the welfare bill is there are 70,000 travellers drawing off it with none or bordering on none working or ever worked . With families of 7-8 Children each the payments including housing their disposable income is well in excess of what middle income working familys have left after they pay a mortgage. This group of people is growing far more rapidly due to the large family's so they make up a very large percentage of the unemployment numbers but the PC brigade will ensure this is never spoken about .

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1012/911844-irish-travellers-census/

Hmm, this report says there were 30,000 travellers in Ireland in 2016.

What's with people exaggerating their figures to incite more hatred and get more 'thanks'?

machaseh · 27-01-2020 11:31am

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1012/911844-irish-travellers-census/

Hmm, this report says there were 30,000 travellers in Ireland in 2016.

What's with people exaggerating their figures to incite more hatred and get more 'thanks'?

Can someone explain to me why the travellers are such a problem in Ireland?

We have in my country so called 'kampers' , which are exactly like travellers here (in addition we have also Roma and Sinti gypsies), but they dont cause that many issues at all. As long as you don't come too close to their camps they are fine. They might occasionally do some petty crime but not to the extent we see here in Ireland.

KiKi III · 27-01-2020 11:52am

machaseh wrote: »

Many of my colleagues live in Gorey and the like, but they need to go by car (and even by car the traffic on the motorway is pretty bad). Gorey is maybe a little bit extreme, but the other towns are already a lot closer.

Such a commuter distance is very normal in the Netherlands due to our excellent public transportation, can't say that of Ireland. Because of this I am basically ' trapped' in super expensive Dublin, and indeed taking up valuable housing space that real Dubliners could have taken up otherwise. Not out of choice but out of necessity.

Then go bore the people of the Netherlands.

In Ireland we have different population densities that make your ideas nonsense.

Deebles McBeebles · 27-01-2020 12:03pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1012/911844-irish-travellers-census/

Hmm, this report says there were 30,000 travellers in Ireland in 2016.

What's with people exaggerating their figures to incite more hatred and get more 'thanks'?

That figure is most likely lower than the reality. You can imagine how it would be difficult to get an actual number on traveller population. A lot of similar/same names and quite a few wanting to stay "off the grid" so to speak. That said, I doubt its as high as 70,000.

Its up to 40,000 here for instance
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-welfare-of-travellers-shameful-neglect-1.4045627
Approx 84% are unemployed.

Feisar · 27-01-2020 12:06pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That figure is most likely lower than the reality. You can imagine how it would be difficult to get an actual number on traveller population. A lot of similar/same names and quite a few wanting to stay "off the grid" so to speak. That said, I doubt its as high as 70,000.

Its up to 40,000 here for instance
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-welfare-of-travellers-shameful-neglect-1.4045627
Approx 84% are unemployed.

16% are working?:eek::eek::eek:

R.F. · 27-01-2020 12:15pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Gorey is 80km away. It’s not a commuter town. It’s bizarre that you feel the government should cater to a very tiny minority who don’t drive yet want to commute extremely long distance. Having commuter trains to Gorey would make next to no sense economically. If you want to live in Gorey, get a job in Gorey.

FYI, there are very few employment opportunities in Gorey. I am fortunate that I work in Bray so my drive is not too bad. But many, many people in Gorey drive into town or use public transport every day. It has become a commuter town

machaseh · 27-01-2020 12:24pm

R.F. wrote: »

FYI, there are very few employment opportunities in Gorey. I am fortunate that I work in Bray so my drive is not too bad. But many, many people in Gorey drive into town or use public transport every day. It has become a commuter town

Is public transportation even doable from Gorey? I heard the train takes about 2,5 hours to get to dublin (might as well walk hahah), so you'd need to use private coaches and that these are super infrequent and ridiculously expensive, hence everybody goes by car.

R.F. · 27-01-2020 12:29pm

machaseh wrote: »

Is public transportation even doable from Gorey? I heard the train takes about 2,5 hours to get to dublin (might as well walk hahah), so you'd need to use private coaches and that these are super infrequent and ridiculously expensive, hence everybody goes by car.

It is doable and a lot of people use it. There is Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus who have pretty much hourly buses into the City. And trains although not overly frequent are still full to the brim every morning and evening. Then loads of people go by car too.

I am coming into this thread late, my point is purely stating Gorey is very much a commuter town.

Big Gerry · 27-01-2020 5:07pm

KiKi III wrote: »

So I should take your makey uppy angry anonymous internet posts instead?

No just user your common sense.

Look at the massive increase in people claiming disability.

Once someone is moved on to disability they are no longer counted as been unemployed.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/the-mystery-of-disability/

LirW · 27-01-2020 5:36pm

R.F. wrote: »

It is doable and a lot of people use it. There is Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus who have pretty much hourly buses into the City. And trains although not overly frequent are still full to the brim every morning and evening. Then loads of people go by car too.

I am coming into this thread late, my point is purely stating Gorey is very much a commuter town.

And Wexford Bus at peak times is at full capacity. Wexford is a low-job area and skilled work is hard to come by, with high volumes of applicants for just about every job opening around.
Many living there moved there because they were priced out of Dublin and don't have the means to go back.
Gorey and surrounding villages are rapidly growing and the infrastructure is at a breaking point.

While it sounds crazy, Gorey and towns in similar distance to Dublin house a lot of commuters with little local job prospects because there's not a lot of work there.

Middle class people deciding to go on the dole ?

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