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Builder disappeared

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  • 24-01-2020 1:30pm
    #1
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭


    Looking for some advice or any ideas..

    My builder disappeared, and I'm unable to reach him or anyone in the company since Christmas...

    I signed the contract in May, the scope was extension +porch + insulation + renovation (turn key).
    Workers showed up a month later, but then they kept disappearing for weeks at times.
    Builder's estimate was 10-12 weeks for this job, and it's still not done: no porch, no heating system, no extension door, no kitchen/bathroom.

    Back in the summer the subcontractor who was building the extension walked away as he didn't get paid.

    A week ago the electrician called me saying he will probably walk away as well, he is owed over 8k at this stage...He was also told by someone in the company, that they are planning to close down this company and start another one..

    My guess now is that he never pays anyone, that would explain why workers disappear for weeks, and it's always new people showing up after that..

    They have the phone number of the 2 directors and the construction manager on their website. I keep calling them without any luck.

    Interestingly I got a text from one of the director's last week saying he was out with the flu, but he will come back to me this week. This didn't happen.
    Also we were supposed to meet after Christmas to discuss sanitary ware for the bathroom, but he cancelled.

    The company was set up at the end of 2015, can't really imagine how they could have survived this long with this attitude.

    At this stage I have paid 95% (plastering complete was the last stage).

    Not sure what the next step could be.. can I claim against their insurance?

    I guess if they went bust, I will have to accept that the money is gone.. and I will have to find another builder to finish the works?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ouch. :( Best of luck to you OP! What state have they left it in?


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    #3
    forgottenhills
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭forgottenhills


    gark wrote: »
    Looking for some advice or any ideas..

    My builder disappeared, and I'm unable to reach him or anyone in the company since Christmas...

    I signed the contract in May, the scope was extension +porch + insulation + renovation (turn key).
    Workers showed up a month later, but then they kept disappearing for weeks at times.
    Builder's estimate was 10-12 weeks for this job, and it's still not done: no porch, no heating system, no extension door, no kitchen/bathroom.

    Back in the summer the subcontractor who was building the extension walked away as he didn't get paid.

    A week ago the electrician called me saying he will probably walk away as well, he is owed over 8k at this stage...He was also told by someone in the company, that they are planning to close down this company and start another one..

    My guess now is that he never pays anyone, that would explain why workers disappear for weeks, and it's always new people showing up after that..

    They have the phone number of the 2 directors and the construction manager on their website. I keep calling them without any luck.

    Interestingly I got a text from one of the director's last week saying he was out with the flu, but he will come back to me this week. This didn't happen.
    Also we were supposed to meet after Christmas to discuss sanitary ware for the bathroom, but he cancelled.

    The company was set up at the end of 2015, can't really imagine how they could have survived this long with this attitude.

    At this stage I have paid 95% (plastering complete was the last stage).

    Not sure what the next step could be.. can I claim against their insurance?

    I guess if they went bust, I will have to accept that the money is gone.. and I will have to find another builder to finish the works?

    I have great sympathy for your situation but why, oh why, oh why would you pay anyone 95% of the final sum agreed for completion when the agreed project seems to be nowhere near 95% complete?

    Unfortunately trying to get recourse through the courts is a very lengthy and expensive business with an unknown outcome particularly if you are pursuing a company. Do you have any burly relatives who would be willing to doorstep these guys until some recompense is forthcoming?


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    #4
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Casati


    forgottenhills wrote: »
    I have great sympathy for your situation but why, oh why, oh why would you pay anyone 95% of the final sum agreed for completion when the agreed project seems to be nowhere near 95% complete?

    Unfortunately trying to get recourse through the courts is a very lengthy and expensive business with an unknown outcome particularly if you are pursuing a company. Do you have any burly relatives who would be willing to doorstep these guys until some recompense is forthcoming?

    It’s too easy for companies like this to bully money out of people by requesting deposits up front on the basis that it’s a standard in the industry when good tradesmen will not expect this.

    Your resource is to go legal - get another builder to quote to finish the works and then claim this amount off the full cost less what you’ve already paid. This could be a long road.


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    #5
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    awec wrote: »
    Ouch. :( Best of luck to you OP! What state have they left it in?

    The pipes for the underfloor heating are down and concrete is poured over it.
    I have a temporary toilet in the bathroom, but nothing else.
    No kitchen. No extension door. No porch. No heating system. A huge pile of rubbish on the front yard, they didn't even use a skip.


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    #6
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    forgottenhills wrote: »
    I have great sympathy for your situation but why, oh why, oh why would you pay anyone 95% of the final sum agreed for completion when the agreed project seems to be nowhere near 95% complete?

    Unfortunately trying to get recourse through the courts is a very lengthy and expensive business with an unknown outcome particularly if you are pursuing a company. Do you have any burly relatives who would be willing to doorstep these guys until some recompense is forthcoming?

    The last 2 stages were "ready for plaster (20%)" and "plastering complete (20%)".
    No relatives unfortunately.
    I'm afraid by the time the court case is closed the company will have gone bust, and then all the legal costs were just a waste of money...


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    #7
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    gark wrote: »
    The pipes for the underfloor heating are down and concrete is poured over it.
    I have a temporary toilet in the bathroom, but nothing else.
    No kitchen. No extension door. No porch. No heating system. A huge pile of rubbish on the front yard, they didn't even use a skip.

    I'm not following. You're saying the last stage was plastering complete. Have they finished the block work etc?

    You've paid 95% so just trying to understand how far off completion you are. When you say "no porch", do you literally mean they haven't done a single thing with the porch?


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    #8
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    awec wrote: »
    I'm not following. You're saying the last stage was plastering complete.

    Have they finished the block work etc?

    That was the last staged payment. There is 5% left for everything else.

    Yes, the extension is completely built, only the door is missing, and the electric works and the insulation.

    The building of the porch hasn't started yet though - yes they haven't done a single thing.
    That part of the work was supposed to be done in January - that's what they said in December.


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    #9
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Casati


    gark wrote: »
    That was the last staged payment. There is 5% left for everything else.

    Yes, the extension is completely built, only the door is missing, and the electric works and the insulation.

    The building of the porch hasn't started yet though - yes they haven't done a single thing.
    That part of the work was supposed to be done in January - that's what they said in December.

    Sounds like a lot of work left. I would go after them legally, directors of companies have personal accountability now for their actions running companies


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    #10
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    Did you check the credentials and insurance details of the building company before signing contracts?

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #11
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    gark wrote: »
    Yes, the extension is completely built, only the door is missing, and the electric works and the insulation.

    How is it being insulated? And when you electric works aren't done, do you mean nothing at all, or just second fix isn't finished?


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    #12
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Casati wrote: »
    It’s too easy for companies like this to bully money out of people by requesting deposits up front on the basis that it’s a standard in the industry when good tradesmen will not expect this.

    Your resource is to go legal - get another builder to quote to finish the works and then claim this amount off the full cost less what you’ve already paid. This could be a long road.

    You wrong about the deposits.
    A lot of the good guys are getting deposits now dew to cowbiw customers. I hear it regularly from guys on site that they would love to start doing it but are too afraid it will cost them work

    There will always be conmen out there. They move from company to company leaving a trail of debt and un paid subbies behind them they are not just small operations doing it. Some if the big guys do it too.

    Not sure what to say to the op . I would try to get them back to make it watertight and tidy up at least for now. Then hope for morw


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    #13
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    Casati wrote: »
    Sounds like a lot of work left. I would go after them legally, directors of companies have personal accountability now for their actions running companies

    Interesting! Does it mean that even if the company goes bankrupt, I can get compensated for damages/unfinished work by the directors?


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    #14
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    Effects wrote: »
    How is it being insulated? And when you electric works aren't done, do you mean nothing at all, or just second fix isn't finished?
    The plan is to have cavity wall insulation for the extension and external insulation for the porch and rest of the house.

    Well, first fix is more or less finished I think - one of the newly built walls is not cabled though. Plus they turned off electricity in one part of the house, because someone touched a wall with wet hands and he got an electric shock.


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    #15
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    You wrong about the deposits.
    A lot of the good guys are getting deposits now dew to cowbiw customers. I hear it regularly from guys on site that they would love to start doing it but are too afraid it will cost them work

    There will always be conmen out there. They move from company to company leaving a trail of debt and un paid subbies behind them they are not just small operations doing it. Some if the big guys do it too.

    Not sure what to say to the op . I would try to get them back to make it watertight and tidy up at least for now. Then hope for morw

    The put some wood panels where the extension door will be, it is kind of watertight now- some of the paint in an upstairs room peeled off though - they said it's probably a cold bridge, not a leak.

    I would love to get them back, but they simply don't pick up the phone...I tried to call from many different numbers.


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    #16
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    gark wrote: »
    The plan is to have cavity wall insulation for the extension and external insulation for the porch and rest of the house.

    Well, first fix is more or less finished I think - one of the newly built walls is not cabled though. Plus they turned off electricity in one part of the house, because someone touched a wall with wet hands and he got an electric shock.

    What? :pac:


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    #17
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    It works both ways some time the builders meet the bad customer!
    I’m always fascinated how people manage to find the dodges, plenty honest hard working people in every town but still Choose the new cowboys in town !
    I feel sorry for u op , hopefully they might come back pressure by calling and phone calls
    Legal is last route it can put there back up and make it worse fr u !


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    #18
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    gark wrote: »
    Interesting! Does it mean that even if the company goes bankrupt, I can get compensated for damages/unfinished work by the directors?

    10. Fraudulent or Reckless Trading

    Directors should be aware of the fact that pursuant to Section 297A of the Companies Act, 1963 as inserted by the Companies Act, 1990, that if in the course of a winding-up or liquidation of a company, it appears that a director was knowingly a party "to the carrying on of any business of the company in a reckless manner", or was knowingly a party to the carrying on of any business of the company "with intent to defraud creditors of the company or creditors of any other person or for any fraudulent purposes, the Court is at liberty to make such a director personally liable without any limitation of liability for all or any part of the debts or liabilities of the company". Not sure if any use to you.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #19
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    con747 wrote: »
    10. Fraudulent or Reckless Trading

    Directors should be aware of the fact that pursuant to Section 297A of the Companies Act, 1963 as inserted by the Companies Act, 1990, that if in the course of a winding-up or liquidation of a company, it appears that a director was knowingly a party "to the carrying on of any business of the company in a reckless manner", or was knowingly a party to the carrying on of any business of the company "with intent to defraud creditors of the company or creditors of any other person or for any fraudulent purposes, the Court is at liberty to make such a director personally liable without any limitation of liability for all or any part of the debts or liabilities of the company". Not sure if any use to you.

    Even if they were to make a director personally liable, it is very, very hard to enforce any such judgement unless the person has considerable assets.


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    #20
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    OP, what sort of sum of money is involved? What was total agreed cost?


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    #21
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Even if they were to make a director personally liable, it is very, very hard to enforce any such judgement unless the person has considerable assets.

    Nearly impossible after all other debts would be settled first to banks and suppliers. That is only in the case of the builder closing down otherwise depending on monies involved small claims court. Again another process that is not certain to regain any monies owed.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #22
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Casati


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    You wrong about the deposits.
    A lot of the good guys are getting deposits now dew to cowbiw customers. I hear it regularly from guys on site that they would love to start doing it but are too afraid it will cost them work

    There will always be conmen out there. They move from company to company leaving a trail of debt and un paid subbies behind them they are not just small operations doing it. Some if the big guys do it too.

    Not sure what to say to the op . I would try to get them back to make it watertight and tidy up at least for now. Then hope for morw

    Yeah maybe I’m wrong - I must have been using cowboy tradesmen building my own houses over the years as not one of them requested any deposit, (and indeed I ended up chasing most of them to make final payment after they completed the work.)


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    #23
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Casati wrote: »
    Yeah maybe I’m wrong - I must have been using cowboy tradesmen building my own houses over the years as not one of them requested any deposit, (and indeed I ended up chasing most of them to make final payment after they completed the work.)

    deposits are only now starting to become a thing with the everyday trades.
    im not saying you are a cowboy if you dont do it (that would include myself as i cant ) . im pointing out that your not a cowboy for getting a deposit. infact your more likely to find a good tradesman wanting a deposit that a cowboy wanting it.


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    #24
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    deposits are only now starting to become a thing with the everyday trades.
    im not saying you are a cowboy if you dont do it (that would include myself as i cant ) . im pointing out that your not a cowboy for getting a deposit. infact your more likely to find a good tradesman wanting a deposit that a cowboy wanting it.

    Have to disagree i'm afraid. I have had more builders than I can count on numerous small to big projects and each and every one of them had a staged payment as work commences. Most if not all asked for some small deposit before starting work so they knew you were not just getting quotes to get a better deal elsewhere.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #25
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    con747 wrote: »
    Have to disagree i'm afraid. I have had more builders than I can count on numerous small to big projects and each and every one of them had a staged payment as work commences. Most if not all asked for some small deposit before starting work so they knew you were not just getting quotes to get a better deal elsewhere.

    i see how you disagree. the rest of your post agrees with me that deposits are regularly taken by trades.


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    #26
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    OP, what sort of sum of money is involved? What was total agreed cost?

    Total 100k


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    #27
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    gark wrote: »
    Total 100k

    If the job is 95% finished you could go to the small claims court to try get the €5000.00 back. It might be an option if you cannot get him to finish the work.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #28
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    con747 wrote: »
    If the job is 95% finished you could go to the small claims court to try get the €5000.00 back. It might be an option if you cannot get him to finish the work.

    Unfortunately it's the other way around.
    I paid 95% of this 100k already.
    The job is really far from being 95% finished...


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    #29
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭con747


    Is it a registered building company with insurance?

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #30
    gark
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭gark


    con747 wrote: »
    Is it a registered building company with insurance?

    Yes.
    I wonder if their insurance covers this kind of case?
    It seems to cover damages..


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    #31
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Casati


    gark wrote: »
    Yes.
    I wonder if their insurance covers this kind of case?
    It seems to cover damages..

    This is substantial amounts of money involved so I would advise the OP to get legal advice of this. I would not presume the builder has no assets nor presume their company will simply fold. Yes this could take time in court but the amounts are v high

    Builders are not above the law


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