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Is this the end of Debenhams?

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    #92
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    beachhead wrote: »
    NO stat redund has been paid.Debs liquidator does not have enough ready cash for that

    Dept of Social Affairs will pay it if the employer doesn't. It's funded by employer PRSI. I would imagine the reason it hasn't been paid yet is, ironically, because of the strike. If you're on strike you're not redundant.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Dept of Social Affairs will pay it if the employer doesn't. It's funded by employer PRSI. I would imagine the reason it hasn't been paid yet is, ironically, because of the strike. If you're on strike you're not redundant.

    Wait until Turas Nua get them on their books!

    I wonder when redundancy will be paid to those not striking as it doesn’t appear that many actually are, especially seeing as only 40% voted with most of those rejecting the offer to fund upskilling?


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    #94
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I see boohoo have bought Debenhams online only for 55 million pound not their stores. Might get Debenhams.ie again so.


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    #95
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015


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    #96
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015

    Such a shame they didn't do that on the Irish stores.


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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RGARDINR wrote: »
    Such a shame they didn't do that on the Irish stores.

    They didn’t get a chance due to Covid.


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    #98
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They didn’t get a chance due to Covid.

    Actually 100% true. Days blending into one just forgot about covid there.


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    #99
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Debenhams uk having a massive closing down sale. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/debenhams-closing-down-sale-attracts-5289015

    Imagine going back to work after lockdown in order to close down


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-remove-workers-former-debenhams-store-dublin-5418011-Apr2021/

    Don’t they get it? The jobs are gone. They got what they were entitled to. Their greedy antics will do them no favours, especially when/if they try to get a job.


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    #101
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-remove-workers-former-debenhams-store-dublin-5418011-Apr2021/

    Don’t they get it? The jobs are gone. They got what they were entitled to. Their greedy antics will do them no favours, especially when/if they try to get a job.

    Shame in the end they should of took the offer when it was offered to sell the stock and keep percentage of the sale. Might of brought up their redundancy payments from it then plus the million KPMG were offering at the time. I think lots of people would of shopped in debenhams once that was mentioned to help staff out. Would of bought a bit in it myself.


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    #102
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-remove-workers-former-debenhams-store-dublin-5418011-Apr2021/
    If there’s no cash or assets in the company to fund the payments, the report recommended that the State should foot the bill at the enhanced agreed-upon rate instead of the statutory one.

    I can see why the government delayed implementing this report. If you pay this once you have to pay every time

    Maybe it's the right thing to do but once it's started it cannot be taken back.


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    #103
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The stock is getting worth less and less every day - what they are "protecting" is probably worth five figures a store at this stage; sold on to a middleman who'll find what's usable and sell it to independent clothes stores / market traders / TK Maxx style places and the rest will go to textile recycling.

    Even the perfumes etc are only going to have so much of the classic long lasting high price brands; there'll be a lot of fashion dependent stuff that's only worth throwing at TK Maxx.


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    #104
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    L1011 wrote: »
    The stock is getting worth less and less every day - what they are "protecting" is probably worth five figures a store at this stage; sold on to a middleman who'll find what's usable and sell it to independent clothes stores / market traders / TK Maxx style places and the rest will go to textile recycling.

    Even the perfumes etc are only going to have so much of the classic long lasting high price brands; there'll be a lot of fashion dependent stuff that's only worth throwing at TK Maxx.
    perfume cosmetics will hold value. Some of the toys etc.just shame would of been a good closing down sale.


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    #105
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Lots of the cosmetics will be owned by the concessionaires; the nicer stuff Debenhams actually owned for KPMG to resell is limited enough. Mainly lots and lots of own brand clothes that are three seasons out of date.


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    #106
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    L1011 wrote: »
    Lots of the cosmetics will be owned by the concessionaires; the nicer stuff Debenhams actually owned for KPMG to resell is limited enough. Mainly lots and lots of own brand clothes that are three seasons out of date.

    True, only thing is the clothes brands would of been about now last year as such it went and collapsed and lots of people haven't bought a lot of clothes since then so wouldn't look to bad I suppose even now.


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    #107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This seems to be what the protest is about. However, the earlier redundancy deal was no longer on the table. It was simply for a round of voluntary redundancies in, I think, 2016.

    “They are also demanding that the government implement the findings of the 2016 Duffy Cahill report. Published in the wake of the Clery’s debacle, the report recommended that workers who have negotiated enhanced redundancy packages with their employer should be moved up the priority list of creditors in the case of an insolvent liquidation.

    If there’s no cash or assets in the company to fund the payments, the report recommended that the State should foot the bill at the enhanced agreed-upon rate instead of the statutory one    .”


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    #108
    rolling boh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    No way should the state step in and pony up it would set up huge problems down the line after every closure. It is tough on a lot of the workers I suppose some of them have nothing left to lose by keeping up their fight as they see it and listening to some hard left politicians stirring things up .


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    rolling boh wrote: »
    No way should the state step in and pony up it would set up huge problems down the line after every closure. It is tough on a lot of the workers I suppose some of them have nothing left to lose by keeping up their fight as they see it and listening to some hard left politicians stirring things up .

    There you have it! They must see that it will have a detrimental effect on their chances of securing employment in the future. I very much doubt that many of the estimated 2,000 are actually picketing.


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    #110
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Deleted User wrote:
    If there’s no cash or assets in the company to fund the payments, the report recommended that the State should foot the bill at the enhanced agreed-upon rate instead of the statutory one.â€


    Statutory Redundancy is funded via PRSI contributions. So if people want enhanced agreed upon rates, then let them increase their PRSI taxes.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Statutory Redundancy is funded via PRSI contributions. So if people want enhanced agreed upon rates, then let them increase their PRSI taxes.

    Good Lord, NO. Let someone else pay!

    Debenhams has been failing for years. It didn’t come as a surprise when it closed. It’s gone in the UK too.


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I see the last Debenhams in the UK are closing next week. I doubt that they’ll be the last closures. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9544965/Debenhams-reveals-closing-details-final-49-stores.html


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    #113
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see the last Debenhams in the UK are closing next week. I doubt that they’ll be the last closures. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9544965/Debenhams-reveals-closing-details-final-49-stores.html
    Was up in Newry debenhams on Friday. Was a good sale in it now. Was a shame they didn't get to do that down here. Say some of the stock was from stores down here and brought up there. Bíg queues at the tills. 1st time I ever saw a trolley in a debenhams with some one packing it out with things to buy.


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    #114
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    RGARDINR wrote: »
    Was up in Newry debenhams on Friday. Was a good sale in it now. Was a shame they didn't get to do that down here. Say some of the stock was from stores down here and brought up there. Bíg queues at the tills. 1st time I ever saw a trolley in a debenhams with some one packing it out with things to buy.

    If they had it here the prices would probably have been reduced to what every other shop charges normally.

    Debenhams was horrendously over priced and used a €1.55 exchange rate from stg.

    One of the key items that I sell was 40% more expensive in Debenhams all year round.


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    #115
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The last UK stores have now closed. https://www.thejournal.ie/debenhams-shut-in-uk-5438233-May2021/
    Yet the Irish former workers are still flogging the dead horse, trying to bully the taxpayer into paying them more than they’re entitled to. I wonder how many of them are putting as much energy into finding new jobs? I hear Dundrum Center are struggling to fill vacancies.


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    #116
    RGARDINR
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The last UK stores have now closed. https://www.thejournal.ie/debenhams-shut-in-uk-5438233-May2021/
    Yet the Irish former workers are still flogging the dead horse, trying to bully the taxpayer into paying them more than they’re entitled to. I wonder how many of them are putting as much energy into finding new jobs? I hear Dundrum Center are struggling to fill vacancies.

    Got to go up to Newry twice and went into the debenhams twice up there before it closed got some good stuff 1st time and not as much 2nd time as shop was half empty. Funny my dad said they were still out picketing at Henry St store. I thought they got all the merchandise out the other wk when the guards got involved.


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    #117
    Jerry Attrick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Jerry Attrick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yet the Irish former workers are still flogging the dead horse, trying to bully the taxpayer into paying them more than they’re entitled to. I wonder how many of them are putting as much energy into finding new jobs?

    Big issue here is that the current Taoiseach seems to have made some rash promise or other to the Debenhams strikers in Cork and they - supported by the usual motley crew of left wing TDs - are trying to make him squirm as much as possible.


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    #118
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    It has been mentioned by a few politicians that if the Debenhams workers legacy is their situation doesn't happen again to others they should be proud. You cannot backdate a law so it won't be for them but for the next situation

    Noble indeed

    But I don't think a soul on the picket lines are so inclined. Why would they think of future generations instead of themselves? Legacy howareya

    Correct. They never thought of the customer when they were working, (had very poor reputation for service) so would hardly think of future workers.


    In any case, retail is not high skilled and it's relatively easy to get re-employment in the same locality if you can show you can provide good customer service


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    #119
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    It has been mentioned by a few politicians that if the Debenhams workers legacy is their situation doesn't happen again to others they should be proud. You cannot backdate a law so it won't be for them but for the next situation

    What do they actually mean though?

    There will always be workers being made redundant from one business or another.

    The Debenhams workers were offered their statutory entitlements. They wanted more but the company said it couldn't pay more and the taxpayer shouldn't have to.

    If these politicians want to make statutory redundancy payments larger then they will need to increase employer PRSI to pay for it.

    No doubt the same ones would decry that as a "tax on jobs" :rolleyes:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #120
    Faze11
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭Faze11


    Darc19 wrote: »
    Correct. They never thought of the customer when they were working, (had very poor reputation for service) so would hardly think of future workers.


    In any case, retail is not high skilled and it's relatively easy to get re-employment in the same locality if you can show you can provide good customer service

    Good customer service is so rare these days that therein lies the skill in the good ones. Retail companies need to start hiring based on customer service skill rather than sales skills. The former creates sales and repeat business.


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    #121
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    May be an unpopular opinion but the longer this drags on, it'll come to the stage that having Debenhams on your CV could act as a deterrent to future employers as they may wonder if you are one of the militant protesters. I strongly believe its just a minority of workers and their vested interest supporters keeping this going. The rest of the laid off staff found replacement jobs many months ago and have earned multiples of the few thousand euro the protestors are campaigning for in that interim.

    Its all over the news that retailers are struggling to fill jobs so there is plenty of such work available.


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