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Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

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12467…17

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    #92
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    This measure will divert public funds to artificially push up rents and property prices yet is presented as being taken in the public interest. Why not just put the money into building more social and affordable houses in Dublin to bring down the accomodation costs for everyone working there?

    I wonder how many rental properties this unidentified "Principal" writing the article owns?

    The state is spending millions on HAP, hotels, and now housing suppliemts for PS workers all just to avoid building affordable housing.


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    #93
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Such populist rubbish. Look Dublin needs something like they have in London. Differential bands of pay depending on where you work. Also key lower paid workers such as teachers/police/first responders have access to subsidised accomodation (only catch being in London this accommodation was generally in not very nice areas).

    Emulating the disaster that is the UK's regional disparity and class system is not a good thing. Build affordable homes. Housing the population is more important than some people and American investors making big profits.


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    #94
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,216 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    The most mollycoddled sector of workers in the State. Protected from redundancy during a recession that saw tens of thousands of Private Sector workers losing their jobs. They've had their snouts in the trough gobbling up out tax-euros for decades and they are never satisfied.

    If the public sector doesn't suit them let them fcuk off and try a real day's work for a change in the private sector.

    Bunch of fcuking chancers.


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    #95
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    Conor74 wrote:
    Whoever thought this was clever may have exposed the members of the club to litigation.

    Conor74 wrote:
    It could be one very serious and expensive mess.

    limnam wrote:
    One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

    limnam wrote:
    They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

    The Tetrarch wrote:
    What I get from that article is young teachers go to Dubai to earn big money, and their job is still available to them when they return.


    Oh the envy and hate from the shelf stackers


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    #96
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    cgcsb wrote: »
    On what planet?


    planet daft.ie


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    #97
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    CucaFace wrote: »
    Giving the public sector extra money will only drive rent prices up for everyone.

    Honestly the real issue is that they are still not building apartment blocks for some reason in this city. Its crazy. Ive lived in Dublin city centre for nearly 15 years and I know the place well, the only buildings happening are office blocks (for more workers to come here and only inflate the rental crisis more, super expensive student accommodation (built by foreign investors with big tax breaks which from what Im hearing are not selling all their beds due to their massively over the top prices aimed only at very wealthy foreign students) and hotels. None of this is aimed at creating more supply and its beginning to look like this is purposely being done.

    What the hell are the Govt or the DCC doing with regards to planning? All the crap being talked about and not one 'normal' bed being built in the city centre from what I can see.

    The only solution to this crazy over hyped rental market is a massive amount of supply, and fast.

    What I don't get is what has changed since 2007 and 2018 with regards to building companies making profits? If they could build an apt block and make money in 2007, what's all this crap about not being able to do it now and make money? If anything labour costs on the building sites have decreased since then as now all that work there are cheap Romanian labourers.

    The student beds are affordable to build because they don't include expensive underground car parks or individual facilities. All apartments in Dublin have to have a car space even though nobody can afford a car, much less an underground space. Low cost apartments could be available with no parking and a shared laundry room for example but no, we all have to be able to afford dual aspect pent houses, they are the rules.


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    #98
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    cgcsb wrote: »
    All apartments in Dublin have to have a car space even though nobody can afford a car.


    Huh


    The number of vehicles on Irish roads has reached its highest level to date, with a total 2.68 million vehicles, including 2.1 million cars, using the State’s roads last year, according to the latest Transport Trends report


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wrangler wrote: »
    Agreed, I don't care what anyone is paid if there was value for money, what is the waiting list in hospitals now, HSE getting Billions more and only a few more beds in the country, and what about the guards.
    Taxpayers/private enterprise is screwed in this country. what's going on is not sustainable, hopefully the gravy train won't last much longer

    I've never understood this argument that its implied that public servants should be excluded from the group known as 'taxpayers'. They are taxed and spend their earnings in the private sector like everyone else.


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    #100
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    cournioni wrote: »
    Those who can’t do, teach.

    If we are to hike their wages/allowances then the cost of everything else will rise as well.

    A bit of commuting won’t do them any harm either, if they’re that worried about rent prices. Sure most of them will be out of the schools before rush hour hits anyway.


    the thing is, a bit of a commute may indeed do them some harm depending on it's length. teachers will be doing work outside school hours also such as correcting work etc, and if they have quite a long commute, that potentially means them working later into the night, equalling less sleep, meaning it potentially effects the work in the classroom. same with hospital workers and gardai, they need to be as rested as possible so they are 100% on the job.
    Addle wrote: »
    Decentralise more departments.
    Free up accommodation for those who remain in cities.
    Give a boost to other locations.
    Win, win?!

    the problem is, the other locations likely have nothing to offer, so it could be argued as to why bother boosting them. by all means if the government are willing to invest throughout the whole country, then perhapse these locations could become attractive and boost themselves naturally. but that isn't going to happen, so decentralisation is unlikely to boost anything (i don't believe it did last time either)
    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    If you think it’s bad for public sector workers spare a thought for private sector workers who are paid less!!

    private sector workers aren't all paid less then public service workers, and not all public service workers are on high wages. both sectors really have mixed wage structures.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #101
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The most mollycoddled sector of workers in the State. Protected from redundancy during a recession that saw tens of thousands of Private Sector workers losing their jobs. They've had their snouts in the trough gobbling up out tax-euros for decades and they are never satisfied.

    If the public sector doesn't suit them let them fcuk off and try a real day's work for a change in the private sector.

    Bunch of fcuking chancers.


    a nonsense soundbite. public sector workers do a real days work as well. the private sector don't all have it hard and aren't the only ones who know work.
    the public sector weren't protected from redundantsies in real terms, the redundantsies that were needed had likely taken place over the years anyway as jobs either were no longer needed or parts were integrated into other rolls.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #102
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    end of the road wrote: »
    the public sector weren't protected from redundantsies in real terms, the redundantsies that were needed had likely taken place over the years anyway as jobs either were no longer needed or parts were integrated into other rolls.

    What on earth are you talking about? How many public servants were made redundant as a result of the financial crisis?

    The public sector will be back to its pre-crash high of 320,000 employees by the end of the year, according to government figures.

    And here are the year-on-year changes in wages in the public and private sectors. No prizes for guessing who is doing better over the past couple of years. And now they want special housing allowances on top.

    Untitled.png


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    #103
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    end of the road wrote: »
    a nonsense soundbite. public sector workers do a real days work as well. the private sector don't all have it hard and aren't the only ones who know work.
    the public sector weren't protected from redundantsies in real terms, the redundantsies that were needed had likely taken place over the years anyway as jobs either were no longer needed or parts were integrated into other rolls.


    Not re-filling a head count != redundancy's and well you know it.


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    #104
    Moonjet
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭Moonjet


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've never understood this argument that its implied that public servants should be excluded from the group known as 'taxpayers'. They are taxed and spend their earnings in the private sector like everyone else.


    The fundamental difference is, in the private sector the source of the 'tax' (PAYE/PRSI/USC) being paid is not the State. I've never understood why people can't comprehend that simple concept.


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    #105
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    For the life of me I can never understand why the newspaper headlines don't read "EVEN public servants can't afford housing in Dublin". Instead we get this narrative that our public servants are somehow hard done by.

    Here is the pay scale for teachers taken on since 2011 which the lowest scale:

    https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    A starting salary of €36,318 plus €1,236 for a 1st or 2nd class HDip is €37,554. By year 2 the basic plus HDIP is already equal to the average pay across the economy of €39K. Factor in the holidays, snow days, storm days, holy days, 'personal' days and very generous sickness and maternity packages before you even consider pensions and suddenly things get a bit more perspective. And that is the lowest scale.

    Another thing I don't understand is why Governments buy peace at any cost at the first sign of a public service dispute. Their reward for this craven approach is a guaranteed threat of a strike at the next available opportunity, there is never any peace dividend in it for the Govt. Considering Nurses and Teachers (and Guards and train drivers etc etc) will inevitably threaten a strike as soon as an election is called, is there no chance some Govt will try and win the votes of the 85% of us who aren't on the gravy train by telling them to GTFO.


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    #106
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    limnam wrote: »
    Huh


    The number of vehicles on Irish roads has reached its highest level to date, with a total 2.68 million vehicles, including 2.1 million cars, using the State’s roads last year, according to the latest Transport Trends report

    I'm talking about Central Dublin here.


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    #107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    For the life of me I can never understand why the newspaper headlines don't read "EVEN public servants can't afford housing in Dublin". Instead we get this narrative that our public servants are somehow hard done by.

    Here is the pay scale for teachers taken on since 2011 which the lowest scale:

    https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    A starting salary of €36,318 plus €1,236 for a 1st or 2nd class HDip is €37,554. By year 2 the basic plus HDIP is already equal to the average pay across the economy of €39K. Factor in the holidays, snow days, storm days, holy days, 'personal' days and very generous sickness and maternity packages before you even consider pensions and suddenly things get a bit more perspective. And that is the lowest scale.

    Another thing I don't understand is why Governments buy peace at any cost at the first sign of a public service dispute. Their reward for this craven approach is a guaranteed threat of a strike at the next available opportunity, there is never any peace dividend in it for the Govt. Considering Nurses and Teachers (and Guards and train drivers etc etc) will inevitably threaten a strike as soon as an election is called, is there no chance some Govt will try and win the votes of the 85% of us who aren't on the gravy train by telling them to GTFO.

    If you're telling people how great you think the job is, did you ever consider having a go at it yourself?


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    #108
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    For the life of me I can never understand why the newspaper headlines don't read "EVEN public servants can't afford housing in Dublin". Instead we get this narrative that our public servants are somehow hard done by.

    Here is the pay scale for teachers taken on since 2011 which the lowest scale:

    https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    A starting salary of €36,318 plus €1,236 for a 1st or 2nd class HDip is €37,554. By year 2 the basic plus HDIP is already equal to the average pay across the economy of €39K. Factor in the holidays, snow days, storm days, holy days, 'personal' days and very generous sickness and maternity packages before you even consider pensions and suddenly things get a bit more perspective. And that is the lowest scale.

    Another thing I don't understand is why Governments buy peace at any cost at the first sign of a public service dispute. Their reward for this craven approach is a guaranteed threat of a strike at the next available opportunity, there is never any peace dividend in it for the Govt. Considering Nurses and Teachers (and Guards and train drivers etc etc) will inevitably threaten a strike as soon as an election is called, is there no chance some Govt will try and win the votes of the 85% of us who aren't on the gravy train by telling them to GTFO.


    keep in mind the 39k across the private sector is someone most likely not getting 4+ months off a year and working "full" days.



    When you work it out into an hourly wage for hours actually in the classroom it's a staggering amount of money for someone starting out in a new job.


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    #109
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you're telling people how great you think the job is, did you ever consider ever having a go at it yourself?


    Such a BS retort.


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    limnam wrote: »
    Such a BS retort.

    If people are unhappy with their current career selections, b*tching at others is not a good way to solve the problem.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Myah Flaky Tablecloth wrote: »
    And here are the year-on-year changes in wages in the public and private sectors. No prizes for guessing who is doing better over the past couple of years. And now they want special housing allowances on top.

    Untitled.png

    Rough Totals -
    Private: 2+2+1.4+2.2+2+2.2+2.3+1.5+2.5 = 15.1
    Public: (-1.1)+(-0.9)+1+1.3+2+3.3+3+3.1+3.5 = 15.2

    Yeah, the public sector are streets ahead :pac: And that's ignoring the 4-5 years previous to that when the real cuts came in.

    Never change, Boards. Never change.


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    #112
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Don't address any of the issues. Yeah its all jealousy, that's it


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    #113
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you're telling people how great you think the job is, did you ever consider having a go at it yourself?

    I mentioned the Guards, Nurses and train Drivers also. Do I have to do those jobs in my spare time to have an opinion on their pay and conditions? I suppose if I was on a teacher's hours I probably would be able fit it in alright.


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    #114
    engiweirdo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭engiweirdo


    Averages are useless in fairness particularly here. That €47k average includes politicians, senior consultants and medical professionals and long serving civil servants. For the vast majority of new entrants the salaries are much lower and as with everything else in this poxhole of a country, most of the positions will be based in Dublin. Best of luck with that lads. Its grand though, I'm sure all the poor saps will just be grateful for the chance to live in such a wonderful global city. On par with London or New York it is.


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    #115
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rough Totals -
    Private: 2+2+1.4+2.2+2+2.2+2.3+1.5+2.5 = 15.1
    Public: (-1.1)+(-0.9)+1+1.3+2+3.3+3+3.1+3.5 = 15.2

    Yeah, the public sector are streets ahead :pac: And that's ignoring the 4-5 years previous to that when the real cuts came in.

    Looks like you've just shown that the public sector is increasing faster than the private (and from an already higher base ).

    Those real cuts were job losses in the private sector, in the public sector it was a pay cut.

    Now tell me which is worse?


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    #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    I mentioned the Guards, Nurses and train Drivers also. Do I have to do those jobs in my spare time to have an opinion on their pay and conditions? I suppose if I was on a teacher's hours I probably would be able fit it in alright.

    But why engage in negativity and generate bad PR about other people's career choices and associated pay & conditions? Where is it getting you? Honestly?


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    I mentioned the Guards, Nurses and train Drivers also. Do I have to do those jobs in my spare time to have an opinion on their pay and conditions? I suppose if I was on a teacher's hours I probably would be able fit it in alright.

    No, you don't have to be employed in the PS to have an opinion. But if it's so cushy a number, why don't you climb aboard the gravy train? Free sick days, flexi time and gilt-edged pensions for all!

    The levels of hypocrisy from people (Not aimed at you, Deise) who've never worked in a public job and only have this outdated view of the civil service from the 80's is staggering. From the abolition of benefits and increased working hours "not really being pay cuts" to the restoration of some of them being labeled as "Yet more pay increases!!!!?!".

    Here you go, grab one for yourself.

    WWW.PUBLICJOBS.IE

    Now, time to put the snout back in the trough.


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    #118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    amcalester wrote: »
    Looks like you've just shown that the public sector is increasing faster than the private (and from an already higher base ).

    Those real cuts were job losses in the private sector, in the public sector it was a pay cut.

    Now tell me which is worse?

    1. No, I've shown that the overall increase is 0.1% of a difference across both sectors
    2. "Average" wage in each sector is a bullsh!t statistic that has been dismissed as meaningless, so your "already high base" is, again, rubbish.


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    #119
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Lana Black Conduit wrote: »
    A meaningless stat considering public sector workers have a very high proportion of highly skilled jobs compared to the private sector so you would naturally expect a higher average salary.

    Also teaches, nurses and guards etc are very underpaid for the jobs they do in any part of the country never mind Dublin.

    That old chestnut

    The gulf between public and private in other EU countries is a fraction of what it is here, do you think public servant's in those countries are less educated?


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    #120
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Anyone with half a brain should see that the current govt have been utterly abysmal to the point of wanton neglect in even beginning to deal with the housing scandal. They simply do not care and, even if they truly did, are totally incompetent in tacking the issues. There's a neo-liberal free market must trump common good ideology in place and those losing out are turning against each other.

    How is it the government's fault? Sinn Fein & friends run the councils. They're the ones who manage the housing supply, strategy, planning, services etc, not the government. The only thing the government has done wrong is not step up and shut down our incompetent city councils and run them nationally. There would be massive uproar and potential legal issues, but that is all the government can do on the matter.

    Oh, and by the way, the property market in Ireland is the most anti-free-market you can get. So, apologies if this doesn't fit in with your left-wing/anarchist ideology, but you're going to have to look to your own on this one.


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    #121
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've never understood this argument that its implied that public servants should be excluded from the group known as 'taxpayers'. They are taxed and spend their earnings in the private sector like everyone else.

    Alright then, all revenue originates from the private sector......apart of course from what we're borrowing to run the country


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