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Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

13468917

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Just wanted to give a heads up for anybody who commutes to the city centre every day. There are 1000+ people moving onto this bus route in the next 2 years with new apartments. NTA have no intention to add new busses to route.

    In fairness that might be a broad statement. The 39 has been a staple route since I was a nipper, and despite massive expansion in housing along the route over the years we do not find ourselves hanging out the windows Calcutta style. I'd suggest that where population grows, transport capacity does tend to follow. And it seems that in recent years there has been more joined up thinking around development generally (in relation to schools, amenities, and transport links - see Hansfield as a prime example).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    ...despite massive expansion in housing along the route over the years we do not find ourselves hanging out the windows Calcutta style....

    That pretty much describes the trains at peak.
    Nijmegen wrote: »
    ...I'd suggest that where population grows, transport capacity does tend to follow. And it seems that in recent years there has been more joined up thinking around development generally (in relation to schools, amenities, and transport links - see Hansfield as a prime example).

    My trains are vastly busier but now shorter at peak times.
    Local car Journeys are a nightmare at peak. Far worse than before.
    Huge issue's with capacity with schools, catchments, and admission policies.
    Peak now extends a lot longer than before.

    So I'd have to disagree you on pretty much everything. Except about buses. Stopped using them years ago. Take too long, too unpleasant. Maybe they are fantastic these days.

    I get into town on train in 30 mins (used to be 20mins) or about a 30 min cycling, 40 home. Regardless of traffic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    beauf wrote: »
    That pretty much describes the trains at peak.

    My trains are vastly busier but now shorter at peak times.
    Local car Journeys are a nightmare at peak. Far worse than before.
    Huge issue's with capacity with schools, catchments, and admission policies.
    Peak now extends a lot longer than before.

    So I'd have to disagree you on pretty much everything. Except about buses. Stopped using them years ago. Take too long, too unpleasant. Maybe they are fantastic these days.

    I get into town on train in 30 mins (used to be 20mins) or about a 30 min cycling, 40 home. Regardless of traffic.

    I'd agree with you re trains and re road congestion; but re buses and OPs point I think bus capacity has quietly and consistently increased; and the number of unobstructed bus lanes is significantly improved over the years meaning this platform has adapted (probably best of all of them) to the changes.

    Rail capacity is frustratingly slow to expand for a number of reasons. But I don't think, again to OPs point, that buses have lagged behind or that they're likely to do so again if more demand is added. Indeed, I would remark that congestion would fall a lot if only more people would use them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    In fairness that might be a broad statement. The 39 has been a staple route since I was a nipper, and despite massive expansion in housing along the route over the years we do not find ourselves hanging out the windows Calcutta style. I'd suggest that where population grows, transport capacity does tend to follow. And it seems that in recent years there has been more joined up thinking around development generally (in relation to schools, amenities, and transport links - see Hansfield as a prime example).


    It actually is that bad at the moment. If you live anywhere between James Joyce bridge and the Navan Road, there is little to no chance of you getting a bus at peak times. We have recorded the 6am 39a full at 6am and unable to pick up passengers until after the luas line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,359 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It actually is that bad at the moment. If you live anywhere between James Joyce bridge and the Navan Road, there is little to no chance of you getting a bus at peak times. We have recorded the 6am 39a full at 6am and unable to pick up passengers until after the luas line.

    It can be worse coming out of the city in the evening, where if you don't get on at Aston Quay, you might see five or six pass you by. As for getting on at Blackhall Place, count the number getting off, as that is the number who will get on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭thomasj


    New 39A timetable on the way apparently that will change to every 15 minutes off peak.

    Also heard a rumour that the first 39/A in the new timetable will be at 4.30


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    What is a sustainable community.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think its time to surrender the train ticket and get back driving. Will never get on it once that is built.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    beauf wrote: »
    I think its time to surrender the train ticket and get back driving. Will never get on it once that is built.

    When the rest of the park and hansfield is finished you won't be able to get on the train nevermind this new development.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    True it's pretty hard now.

    I've switched back to using the car a lot now.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    What are the chances of getting electrified double decker trains like they have in Europe since they can't extend the already 8 carriage long trains. Double decker would increase capacity and electrification would enable increased frequencies as well as a quicker journey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    What are the chances of getting electrified double decker trains like they have in Europe since they can't extend the already 8 carriage long trains. Double decker would increase capacity and electrification would enable increased frequencies as well as a quicker journey.

    The capital outlays for the rolling stock and electrification in the context of a lossmaking CIE would require major government investment. Also from a practical point of view, I wonder how many bridges etc would need to be moved to accommodate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    What are the chances of getting electrified double decker trains like they have in Europe since they can't extend the already 8 carriage long trains. Double decker would increase capacity and electrification would enable increased frequencies as well as a quicker journey.

    Well they could easily double the 4 carriage trains on the m3/docklands line as the hansfield station will serve this new development, there is a new station planned for the maynooth line just after the clonsilla station, outbound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭cython


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Well they could easily double the 4 carriage trains on the m3/docklands line as the hansfield station will serve this new development, there is a new station planned for the maynooth line just after the clonsilla station, outbound.

    Between that and Pelletstown they're determined to cripple the line speeds out this way, aren't they? Line electrification must precede any new stations, IMHO, as the current diesel stock is ill suited to the current gaps (acceleration and braking), never mind even closer stations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    cython wrote: »
    Between that and Pelletstown they're determined to cripple the line speeds out this way, aren't they? Line electrification must precede any new stations, IMHO, as the current diesel stock is ill suited to the current gaps (acceleration and braking), never mind even closer stations.
    There's some pretty low speed limits too on the stretch from Clonsilla-Maynooth that I wish they'd address quickly. And the level crossing closures too.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Well they could easily double the 4 carriage trains on the m3/docklands line as the hansfield station will serve this new development, there is a new station planned for the maynooth line just after the clonsilla station, outbound.

    I'd be delighted if the Docklands train I get every morning was actually a 4 carriage one. 3 carriages at 7.25 used to be enough, and I'd frequently get a seat, even getting on at Coolmine. Now when the train pulls in there are already quite a few people standing. In the last few weeks I've seen people unable to get on at Ashtown and, in one case, unable to get off at Broombridge because the train is so crowded. No consideration has been given to how much busier the service has gotten since they opened the Luas at Broombridge, and the trains they use (22000 class) simply aren't suited for commuter traffic. They need to either lengthen the trains or replace them with the proper 29000 class commuter trains.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,594 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Zaph wrote: »
    I'd be delighted if the Docklands train I get every morning was actually a 4 carriage one. 3 carriages at 7.25 used to be enough, and I'd frequently get a seat, even getting on at Coolmine. Now when the train pulls in there are already quite a few people standing. In the last few weeks I've seen people unable to get on at Ashtown and, in one case, unable to get off at Broombridge because the train is so crowded. No consideration has been given to how much busier the service has gotten since they opened the Luas at Broombridge, and the trains they use (22000 class) simply aren't suited for commuter traffic. They need to either lengthen the trains or replace them with the proper 29000 class commuter trains.

    The trains should reduce the seating and make more room for standing.

    Standing up on a commuter train going into a city centre is a normal part of commuting life. Some Irish cling to the idea of getting a seat.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    The trains should reduce the seating and make more room for standing.

    Standing up on a commuter train going into a city centre is a normal part of commuting life. Some Irish cling to the idea of getting a seat.

    Just for clarity, that's the point I was making, I wasn't bemoaning the fact that I have to stand for a short 20 minute train trip. The trains currently being used are inter-city trains, not commuter trains, with very little standing capacity, and most of that is down a narrow centre aisle with single doors at each end of the carriage. I know Irish Rail are looking at leasing new rolling stock as an interim measure, but even then upgrades will be necessary to make them suitable for Irish tracks, while in the meantime they're operating a service that is possibly beyond normal 100% capacity at times and it's only going to get worse. On top of that there's the whole electrification of the Maynooth line debacle. I moved to D15 in 2004, and it was mentioned then that it would be happening in "a few years". It currently looks about as likely as me winning Miss World, and all we're hearing about now is new stations coming on-stream over the next while. Are they going to start allowing people on the roofs of the trains like in India?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    More carriages tends to lead to union disruption over pay.


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  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    More carriages tends to lead to union disruption over pay.

    Why? It's not like they're pulling the feckin' things themselves!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭cython


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    More carriages tends to lead to union disruption over pay.

    You're likely referring to a few years ago when the maximum length of DART trains was increased to 8 cars and the unions dug in. Since what is being suggested here is to increase the average length of trains (increasing the maximum length would necessitate lengthening platforms which is not going to happen soon if ever) to something closer to the maximum length, the unions wouldn't have a leg to stand on here.

    I would, however, have a concern that they'd see the introduction of a new class of train (in the leased stock) as an opportunity to do similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    cython wrote: »
    You're likely referring to a few years ago when the maximum length of DART trains was increased to 8 cars and the unions dug in. Since what is being suggested here is to increase the average length of trains (increasing the maximum length would necessitate lengthening platforms which is not going to happen soon if ever) to something closer to the maximum length, the unions wouldn't have a leg to stand on here.

    I would, however, have a concern that they'd see the introduction of a new class of train (in the leased stock) as an opportunity to do similar.

    Shamelessness has never seemed to be an issue around transport strikes in Ireland. Increased frequency of DART services was also teed up as a pay issue. If they suggested changing the colour of the trains the union would sniff and make noises about pay. http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-10-minute-dart-2687904-Mar2016/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,697 ✭✭✭ciaran76


    Piece in The Journal on the Barnhill Local Area Plan (LAP).

    'Not now and not ever': 1,000 new homes planned for west Dublin, which locals say brings a 'high risk' of flooding


    https://www.thejournal.ie/barnhill-dublin-houses-4493740-Feb2019/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Excuse my ignorance but don't you need a river in the vicinity to have a flood plain?

    That picture on the Journal article is of a field with a large puddle, not a flood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭OfflerCrocGod


    I presume they are worried about the canal?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭fletch


    When's the last time the canal flooded?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Canals don't flood.

    They're worried about rainwater collecting on the surface moreso than a specific watercourse flooding.

    Ditches, streams and other small watercourses can cause flooding problems, doesn't have to be something you think of as a "river".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Canals don't flood.

    They're worried about rainwater collecting on the surface moreso than a specific watercourse flooding.

    Ditches, streams and other small watercourses can cause flooding problems, doesn't have to be something you think of as a "river".

    Sounds like something that can be easily fixed with a drain...

    TBH, if the county council was going to build "mixed tenure housing" beside my brand new 400k house, I'd be somewhat nervous too. I think we all would. That is more likely the issue but of course no one can say that.

    Also; another school?? Really? Does every new estate need its own school?


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Bargain_Hound


    There is some chat regarding flooding on neighbouring lands in barnwell here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241472&page=158

    Not sure how relevant it is to the new zone in question, but interesting that similar issues have been identified nearby with attempts to resolve.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    It's difficult to tell when planning objections come in what of the half dozen or so items listed is the real one. In this case they also cite objections over suitability in building up the area etc, ie classic nimbyism. I remember reading some objections a while back to the new mosque and Islamic center near ITB that seemed to show just how surprisingly exercised people were getting about mature trees on the site that might be affected.

    With regards to water not draining properly, I'd imagine that's for the engineers to fix during construction. The park in Hollywoodrath doesn't drain properly (despite being right beside a drainage system that's partially uncovered running alongside it) and the builders are back on site working on it again. It's not that abnormal.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Two reasons why I think that area around hansfield station is a floodplain.

    1, The train station is built up on top of a man made hill.

    2, Those new apartments being built (2 yellow cranes) near the station and its surroundings have had its ground level extended by roughly 3foot high, now nearly level with the tracks.

    Both of these projects the station and apartments both had to get planning permission, so I'd be very surprised if fingal weren't aware of the flood risks in that area, maybe they think engineering and landscaping can prevent it.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

    I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    liamog wrote: »
    I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.
    QUOTE]

    No offence here,but each house will have 2 cars at least.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    liamog wrote: »
    I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

    I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.

    Do you get the train.

    My trains over the past 4yrs are now shorter at peak and and almost impossible to get on. If I can't get on its 30 mins till the next train. Its been like that for decades. So fed up with it I've gone back to driving most of the time now.

    When I hear the Dart and its 10 mins its twisting the knife.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Both of these projects the station and apartments both had to get planning permission, so I'd be very surprised if fingal weren't aware of the flood risks in that area, maybe they think engineering and landscaping can prevent it.

    This is something journos slavishly re-writing the press releases from "concerned" (vote chasing) councilors should perhaps dig into. I'd say that the flood plan was looked at and taken into consideration in the planning, but somebody is looking to win a few nods in June because "he looked into that for us and sure didn't he try his best."

    Good planning and engineering can solve most water problems. They already do in most places we humans live in. They can't solve for people who don't want to share their train into work, or public transport companies that don't want to lay on more and longer trains.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    ...They can't solve for people who don't want to share their train into work..

    I'm not sure what this is meant to mean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm not sure what this is meant to mean.

    Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.

    I don't think it's surprising that people who are already using trains packed to bursting point wouldn't want a lot more potential passengers landed on their doorstep, especially when it's likely that there'd be no equivalent increase in capacity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Folks who don't want a new estate built beside them and their train station. When you buy along relatively new transport infrastructure, expect any green fields to get built on fairly quickly afterward.

    So what you are saying is...

    Everyone downstream of every new development should expect their local infrastructure to become dysfunctional as a result.

    That is normal. That is is planners and engineers doing a good job.

    People are wrong to complain about the glaringly obvious problems of infrastructure capacity with these new developments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Because it seems to me people who use trains are only too happy to share trains.

    They are perhaps trying to warn those moving into the area of the capacity issues.

    Those moving into the are, probably don't care. At least until someone else builds upstream of them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    beauf wrote: »
    liamog wrote: »
    I love the objection due to transport links. It's literally on the side of a train station.

    I've seen literature complaining about the number of trains per hour, if only their was some magical method of increasing the number of trains.

    Do you get the train.

    My trains over the past 4yrs are now shorter at peak and and almost impossible to get on. If I can't get on its 30 mins till the next train. Its been like that for decades. So fed up with it I've gone back to driving most of the time now.

    When I hear the Dart and its 10 mins its twisting the knife.
    I get on at Hansfield daily, 8:24am departure and I get a seat 4 out of 5 mornings. Yes, by Ashtown it's a tight squeeze but how can you say you can't get on in the mornings if you're living in D15? Granted coming home in the evenings, it is a tight squeeze also if you arrive at the train less than a few minutes before departure. I'm not saying we don't need more carriages, we do, but expecting seats for all on commuter peak journeys is unrealistic. If I lived in Ashtown or Broombridge, I'd consider alternatives but no one in D15 beyond Ashtown can't not get on an inbound train. It would take me 90 mins to drive into town, train 30. No brainer!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hansfield to Docklands is 27-29 on the time table. That's before delays and before getting to and from the station and before giving 10-15 mins extra to get a seat at least at the terminus. So door to door in 30 mins is pretty amazing.

    For me its 15 min walk and 10 the other end so 25 mins then add the train journey which can be 20-30 depending on how its delayed. So just under an hour total. I can drive into town 35-50 mins usually. But obviously that is missing the peak time. I go before or after it. If I have to stop somewhere on the way home the car is quicker. In the middle of peak you'd be nuts to drive.

    I'm before Ashtown, and I'm say I'm 40% standing into town, and always standing home if I'm not 10-15 early for the train. Often counted 30+ people standing between the carriages doors. Its not unusual for a few to decide its not worth it and stay on the platform.

    Over the past 2yrs or so they've reduced the number of carriages at peak. Get a train off peak especially the Connolly and its twice the length. So in the last 4yrs and mostly the last 18 months, the docklands train has gone from pretty much empty to every inch filled with people standing everywhere. Luggage space, in toilets everywhere.

    So it will be interesting how it will be in the next 2ys. Especially if a lot more development brings more people getting on at Dunboyne. I guess they'll say the same, there's no problem with seats, for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    ongarboy wrote: »
    I get on at Hansfield daily, 8:24am departure and I get a seat 4 out of 5 mornings. Yes, by Ashtown it's a tight squeeze but how can you say you can't get on in the mornings if you're living in D15? Granted coming home in the evenings, it is a tight squeeze also if you arrive at the train less than a few minutes before departure. I'm not saying we don't need more carriages, we do, but expecting seats for all on commuter peak journeys is unrealistic. If I lived in Ashtown or Broombridge, I'd consider alternatives but no one in D15 beyond Ashtown can't not get on an inbound train. It would take me 90 mins to drive into town, train 30. No brainer!

    I get the 7.51am hansfield daily and never get a seat, IMO the 7.51 is the busiest of the morning lot, the 5pm home bound is getting busier by the week but its not the worst..yet.
    I dont care about not getting a seat but i dont want a stranger with horse **** breath 5 inches from my face, i want a bit of breathing space literally.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Also to put that into perspective cycling its 35-45 into town for me and 40-60 home. Probably drop 10 mins off that on an eBike. Which I might switch to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Phil.x wrote: »
    ...
    I dont care about not getting a seat but i dont want a stranger with horse **** breath 5 inches from my face, i want a bit of breathing space literally.

    Well thats it entirely. Its become very unpleasant. Also those carriages especially between the doors have no handles to hold. They are not designed for standing passengers. They can take the weight, but everyone goes flying in an accident.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    beauf wrote: »
    Well thats it entirely. Its become very unpleasant. Also those carriages especially between the doors have no handles to hold. They are not designed for standing passengers. They can take the weight, but everyone goes flying in an accident.

    The obsession with all seating trains in Ireland is odd. As you say, then no proper provision for handrails all over the place. And as for planning objections because of capacity issues, that’s a problem to solve by putting more capacity in rather than limiting development. (Or just building up closer to the city, but that’s another days row....)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I've been getting the train from D15 for 20 years. The service is the best it has ever been. The trains between 745 and 815 are pretty hectic but of course they are. Get a train 15 minutes earlier or later and they're fine. If the 8am train wasn't rammed there would be a serious flaw in the system.

    Could it be better? Yes. I'd love to see the Intercity trains gone and fewer 4 carriage trains

    Should we stop building houses along the line? No. We should build more and more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    The obsession with all seating trains in Ireland is odd. As you say, then no proper provision for handrails all over the place. And as for planning objections because of capacity issues, that’s a problem to solve by putting more capacity in rather than limiting development. (Or just building up closer to the city, but that’s another days row....)

    I didn't bring up seating you did. You keep doing it.
    Why are you obsessed with it.

    I just want to be able to stand safely. The luas, dart and arrow are designed to facilitate standing. The intercity trains aren't. There are no handles, no airflow in between the carriages. Its like a airless sauna.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I've been getting the train from D15 for 20 years. The service is the best it has ever been. The trains between 745 and 815 are pretty hectic but of course they are. Get a train 15 minutes earlier or later and they're fine. If the 8am train wasn't rammed there would be a serious flaw in the system.

    Could it be better? Yes. I'd love to see the Intercity trains gone and fewer 4 carriage trains

    Should we stop building houses along the line? No. We should build more and more.

    .. and I've been getting the train from D15 for longer than that. So what?

    They want to double the numbers on the docklands train, but at the same time they are reducing capacity and increasing demand. They have made the journey time longer. Delays in the last year are now common. There was a time it took 16 mins. Now 30 mins isn't uncommon. The train is often sitting between stations waiting for the line to clear.

    I don't travel at peak. Usually after 9 and after 6. Still very busy. Early train the same. Was standing on the 4.30pm train recently.

    The point is there has been massive rise in numbers on this line in a very short space of time, and they have reduced capacity. The plan is to massively increase demand. With all this new development will compound that.

    No one is saying stop development. We are asking for the train to be improved not degraded as it has been.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irelands-newest-train-station-could-move-because-of-major-shortfall-in-passengers-36916197.html


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    beauf wrote: »

    No one is saying stop development. We are asking for the train to be improved not degraded as it has been.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irelands-newest-train-station-could-move-because-of-major-shortfall-in-passengers-36916197.html

    I think we're in violent agreement! :)


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