How to cope with not being able to establish expectations with my mother's visits?

chris525 · 09-10-2019 11:21am #1

This is completely unrelated to my previous questions.

In 2016 my husband and I moved to Ireland with our daughter leaving my mother behind 8, 000 km away.

Historically, I have not ever had a good relationship with my mother. She has been selfish, mean, self-centered and verbally abusive. Won't go into too much detail but it's never been so bad that I'd cut her off completely but we just don't enjoy each other at all. We simply don't ever meet each other's expectations or needs in any way and annoy and bore each other.

Last time my mother came to visit was last Halloween. I was 2 weeks post-partum with her grandchild and this woman came to my house and stayed for 3 weeks and did not want to help me. All of the conversations were about her and she was so self-absorbed that I was crying in my bedroom.

I understand that she had never been to this country before but even after she did her sight-seeing when she came back in the evening she just sat on Facebook posting pictures and did not spend any time with her grandchildren. My daughter tried to start conversations with her like 'nanna, nanna, nanna' like 8 times but she wouldn't look up from her phone as she was on Facebook. When I asked her to help me because I had back pain she got vicious and just said' oh, I'm on vacation.' etc.

Basically it's been another year and she's talking about visiting again in 2020 or 2021. I told her that I'm not interested in having any tourists stay in my house as I have 2 young children (a 5 year old and a 1 year old) but if someone who actually wants to be a grandmother comes to visit then it's OK. She told me that she's not paying over 1K-2K and using all her vacation time to come and sit in my house and be a nanny to my kids for me.

The trouble is that my husband and I don't want someone who is not going to really be a true visitor stay in our house. It's very disruptive to our routine to have a visitor, extra work for us with the kids and cleaning, and more expensive electricity bill. We have enough to deal with as it is and a lot going on and are not interested in houseguests.

My husband and I get no help at all with the kids and no one is ever going to facilitate our vacations so I'm not keen on facilitating anyone else's especially if it's more work for me. I don't want to make it so that she can't have a relationship with her grandchildren though. But she's not very maternal and gets mad if they have a tantrum or don't want to do what she wants them to do.

My mother keeps saying things like this: I held your baby for hours last time. You're asking me to be something I'm not. I am a loving grandmother but I'm not the one you think I should be. You want to control me or not see me at all.

zoobizoo · 09-10-2019 12:33pm

chris525 wrote: »

it's never been so bad that I'd cut her off completely

How much worse would it need to get ?

Why engage in "you need to be different" conversations when she never will be?

What would the worst thing be about cutting contact? That your kids don't have someone who doesn't care about them in their lives... ?

chris525 · 09-10-2019 12:35pm

zoobizoo wrote: »

How much worse would it need to get ?

Why engage in "you need to be different" conversations when she never will be?

What would the worst thing be about cutting contact? That your kids don't have someone who doesn't care about them in their lives... ?

She does care about them she just can't be a hands-in maternal grandmother and because she can't live up to my standards and expectations of what a grandmother should be, I'll always be unhappy with her around.

lunamoon · 09-10-2019 1:05pm

Em, I think you're asking too much of her TBH. She's right, why should she spend 1k-2k of her own money to be a babysitter for a few weeks if that's not what she wants to do with her vacation. But also, at the same time, if that's not what she wants to do on a vacation then she shouldn't be coming to see you and should probably go somewhere else.

You can't change other people. You can't make them be something they are not.

I would suggest you say to her that you'd love her to visit but unfortunately you can't accommodate her this time.

zoobizoo · 09-10-2019 1:07pm

chris525 wrote: »

I'll always be unhappy with her around.

So don't have her around.

ManOfMystery · 09-10-2019 1:08pm

It's very simple. You have pretty much zero relationship with her (and to be honest it sounds like most of the reason for this is down to her) - and now your children are starting to experience the same.

I would simply not try to maintain any relationship at all. She is plainly not interested. By trying to maintain or force one, her grandchildren will only be exposed to disappointment when their wholly innocent expectations of a hug from Grandma, or playing with Grandma, - or anything at all from Grandma - are not met. I think it would be much easier on them, and you, if she simply didn't figure in your lives and there was no expectation of anything.

I know it sounds harsh, but it to seems to me like you're both trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship but there's absolutely no foundation there for it. Why force it?

09-10-2019 1:50pm

chris525 wrote: »

This is completely unrelated to my previous questions.

I don't want to make it so that she can't have a relationship with her grandchildren though.

I'm sorry but I don't think this post should be taken in isolation from your other post. You have (understandable) issues with your mother, your father, your paternal grandparents that you need to get a handle on before you can start worrying about possible visits in 2020/2021.

Regarding your paternal Grandparents refusal to disown their son (your father) you have said:

chris525 wrote: »

Well, I simply can't handle people liking someone who treated me badly. It's not just in this situation but in all others.

Regarding your Mother you have said:

chris525 wrote: »

because she can't live up to my standards and expectations of what a grandmother should be, I'll always be unhappy with her around.

If you want to have a relationship with these people, you really need to start looking at yourself and seeing how you can let some of this anger go.

And if you can't accept them as they are, then may need to consider the possibility that you are all better off not pursuing a relationship.

Keep going to counselling.

chris525 · 09-10-2019 2:14pm

lunamoon wrote: »

Em, I think you're asking too much of her TBH. She's right, why should she spend 1k-2k of her own money to be a babysitter for a few weeks if that's not what she wants to do with her vacation. But also, at the same time, if that's not what she wants to do on a vacation then she shouldn't be coming to see you and should probably go somewhere else.

You can't change other people. You can't make them be something they are not.

I would suggest you say to her that you'd love her to visit but unfortunately you can't accommodate her this time.

Well I'm not asking her to visit - she wants to visit but she expects to be able to use our home where 2 young kids live as a hotel and to not help out and just relax. We're never going to have enough money to visit her; there's 4 of us 8, 000 km flight and hotel etc.

zapper55 · 09-10-2019 2:27pm

OP you are.missing the nuance of lunamoons post, especially the last sentence. It's a polite way of saying that your mother cant stay.

Now unless you are willing to say to her that it's not possible then she will come over. And it sounds like it's be horribly stressful for all concerned. But only you can set boundaries. You cant control her behaviour. Shes going to act exactly how she wants to act.

Idle Passerby · 09-10-2019 2:29pm

chris525 wrote: »

Well I'm not asking her to visit - she wants to visit but she expects to be able to use our home where 2 young kids live as a hotel and to not help out and just relax. We're never going to have enough money to visit her; there's 4 of us 8, 000 km flight and hotel etc.

Then don't offer her accomodation. Your not obliged to provide a free bed to anyone, particularly if their presence is stressful. Let her sort out a hotel for herself if she wants a holiday.

I get that you were let down by many people in your childhood. It's horrible and obviously you want to protect your children from similar neglect. Your mother was a poor parent to you, why do you expect her to be a better grandmother? It's obviously not in her nature to be caring or considerate. As others have said, you can't change other people, waiting for them to change is wasted effort. If it causes you upset to interact with someone, stop interacting with them. Take yourself out of the unhealthy dynamic.

seamus · 09-10-2019 8:48pm

You both have valid points. She shouldn't be expected to become a child minder to her grandchildren because she happens to be in close proximity.

You shouldn't be expected to play host so someone can have a holiday.

So, as others say, tell her you'd be delighted to have her visit but you don't have a place for her to stay, she'll have to make her own arrangements.

Then your children can still see their grandmother and she can spend her evenings updating Facebook from an AirBnB.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 9:43am

seamus wrote: »

She shouldn't be expected to become a child minder to her grandchildren because she happens to be in close proximity.

What's the point in visiting young children if you don't want to mind them or take care of them at all even after you come back from sightseeing? It doesn't mean that my husband and I make her into our full-time nanny for 2 weeks but when she comes back from a day out why not mind the kids instead of going on the cell phone? That's my issue with it.

Ursus Horribilis · 11-10-2019 10:10am

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 10:17am

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren. I wouldn't want people around in my house with my children if they aren't going to lift a finger. What useless grandparents! Maybe the fact that I don't enjoy her company makes it worse. How are you meant to socialize when you've got toddlers who will get into things and break things if you turn your eyes away for 30 seconds anyways?

lunamoon · 11-10-2019 10:23am

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

To echo this. My sons grandparents said outright that they will only mind him in an emergency. It's not really unusual.

Ursus Horribilis · 11-10-2019 10:27am

chris525 wrote: »

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren

The clue is right here. Your mother is not your grandmother. She wasn't much of a mother to you. Why do you think she'd change just because these are her grandchildren? You are expecting her to be something she can't /won't be.

DaeryssaOne · 11-10-2019 10:28am

chris525 wrote: »

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren.

But your mother is still the same person who (I assume) didn't raise you meaning your grandparents had to. Just because she is now a grandparent herself doesn't mean she'll suddenly want to dote on your children - she is still the same person.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 10:56am

lunamoon wrote: »

To echo this. My sons grandparents said outright that they will only mind him in an emergency. It's not really unusual.

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 10:56am

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

But your mother is still the same person who (I assume) didn't raise you meaning your grandparents had to. Just because she is now a grandparent herself doesn't mean she'll suddenly want to dote on your children - she is still the same person.

Well she can't ever expect me to be thrilled to see her then

seamus · 11-10-2019 11:42am

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

Doting grandparents and childminders are two different things tbh.

One can be a doting grandparent without wiping arses or handing out discipline.

Likewise, minding your grandkids doesn't automatically make you a doting grandparent. There are plenty of people who recount terrible childhoods at the hands of grandparents who raised them.

I think you're being very unfair to assume that someone who doesn't want to chase kids around half the day automatically doesn't love them.

strandroad · 11-10-2019 11:45am

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

There is huge difference between interacting with children meaningfully as a doting grandparent and minding them. Your mother is not willing to do either it seems but you seem incredibly set in your ways too if you want her to do both.

Dial Hard · 11-10-2019 11:46am

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 11:58am

strandroad wrote: »

There is huge difference between interacting with children meaningfully as a doting grandparent and minding them. Your mother is not willing to do either it seems but you seem incredibly set in your ways too if you want her to do both.

My biggest problem is that when she came back from her sightseeing she just sat there on her phone and didn't play with the kids. Only very rarely and for a few mins. Sometimes my daughter even tried to start a conversation with her and she was stuck onto her phone. Also, that all the conversations were about her and never asked me any questions or my husband any questions.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 11:59am

Dial Hard wrote: »

It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

Asking someone to look up from their phone when their granddaughter is talking to her is an impossible standard?

Ursus Horribilis · 11-10-2019 12:10pm

chris525 wrote: »

Asking someone to look up from their phone when their granddaughter is talking to her is an impossible standard?

It is when it is not in your mother's nature. You are asking her to be something she will never be.

BrokenArrows · 11-10-2019 12:24pm

OP your situation sounds exactly the same as my wifes mother.
She occasionally visits and basically expects us to wait on her hand a foot, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, tea, coffee. All while she sits on the couch watching TV, and it eventually erupts into massive arguments between us all once we eventually tell her to do something for herself or to help out.

Ive told my wife that shes not staying here anymore. There are plenty of reasonably priced BnB's near by. She can stay there and pop over for a few hours throughout her stay. Having her in the house for 2 weeks constantly puts a massive strain on us.

At that age you must accept that your mother will NEVER EVER EVER change. She is who she is and you need to stop expecting her to be the loving, caring and considerate mother that you want. So you need to prioritise you are your family. Tell her if she wants to visit that she can stay in a hotel or BnB and visit the house to see them throughout her stay. If she doesnt want to do that then its clear the only reason for her visit is to have somewhere free to stay while on holiday.

zoobizoo · 11-10-2019 12:47pm

zoobizoo wrote: »

So don't have her around.

Problem solved. Don't have her stay. As advised on page 1.

I'm not sure what further advice you want.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 12:50pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

OP your situation sounds exactly the same as my wifes mother.
She occasionally visits and basically expects us to wait on her hand a foot, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, tea, coffee. All while she sits on the couch watching TV, and it eventually erupts into massive arguments between us all once we eventually tell her to do something for herself or to help out.

Ive told my wife that shes not staying here anymore. There are plenty of reasonably priced BnB's near by. She can stay there and pop over for a few hours throughout her stay. Having her in the house for 2 weeks constantly puts a massive strain on us.

At that age you must accept that your mother will NEVER EVER EVER change. She is who she is and you need to stop expecting her to be the loving, caring and considerate mother that you want. So you need to prioritise you are your family. Tell her if she wants to visit that she can stay in a hotel or BnB and visit the house to see them throughout her stay. If she doesnt want to do that then its clear the only reason for her visit is to have somewhere free to stay while on holiday.

Yes, I agree. We'll try that as a solution.

I guess on a more personal note that it's emotional for me to see her or even think about seeing her due to the history here. It's like all the unresolved relationship problems surface.

Ursus Horribilis · 11-10-2019 1:07pm

So why exactly do you have her to stay? Other than she's the person who carried you in her womb for 9 months and brought you into this world.

chris525 · 11-10-2019 2:09pm

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So why exactly do you have her to stay? Other than she's the person who carried you in her womb for 9 months and brought you into this world.

It's complicated. She's my only blood relative on my mother's side (father was absent) and in the event of an emergency we would still sent each other money etc.

However, she has caused me a lot of hurt and I think I've moved around a lot in my life because I could not solve the issues with her. I had to move out at 17 because of issues from her. I wish that I could have come home from university in the summers and after uni but she wouldn't let me so I've grown apart from a lot of childhood friends. I don't have deep ties anywhere etc.

I think that she does care for me in her own way but she's simply too self-centered to have close, loving family relationships.

MissShihTzu · 11-10-2019 3:42pm

That's a real shame. I completely understand where you're coming from as I went through similar.

I am speaking from personal experience - I had a poor relationship with my own mother who has since passed. I was hurt and upset for YEARS! It messed me up in a lot of ways. I finally had to break the chains for the sake of my own mental health.

I am telling you this as your anger and resentment are having an effect on your children and your family life. Believe me - as young as your kids are, they will be picking up the vibes you give off even if they do not as yet understand why.

Finally - Have you spoken to your husband about this? What does he think??

LegacyUser · 12-10-2019 8:41am

Dial Hard wrote: »

It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

I really think this is the best post on this thread. You are coming across as someone consumed by anger because people in your life won’t live up to standards you have set in your head. The two threads cannot he read in isolation. People are fallible humans they are not perfect beings who comply to standards set by others.

I’m concerned at the amount of rage you seem to have bottled up collecting grudges about the behavior of various people in your life. You are coming across as being quite self-involved, I think you aren’t wrong to be hurt about certain things (not including your grandparents painting their sons house which is quite frankly very unreasonable), but you seem completely incapable of standing in anyone else’s shoes. You’re an adult & a parent, at this point in your life you should be capable of understanding that life is not black & white, & trying to understand where others are coming from.

The person you seem to be hurting the most is you.

chris525 · 13-10-2019 4:37pm

Ilikecookies wrote: »

I really think this is the best post on this thread. You are coming across as someone consumed by anger because people in your life won’t live up to standards you have set in your head. The two threads cannot he read in isolation. People are fallible humans they are not perfect beings who comply to standards set by others.

I’m concerned at the amount of rage you seem to have bottled up collecting grudges about the behavior of various people in your life. You are coming across as being quite self-involved, I think you aren’t wrong to be hurt about certain things (not including your grandparents painting their sons house which is quite frankly very unreasonable), but you seem completely incapable of standing in anyone else’s shoes. You’re an adult & a parent, at this point in your life you should be capable of understanding that life is not black & white, & trying to understand where others are coming from.

The person you seem to be hurting the most is you.

Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.

chris525 · 13-10-2019 4:41pm

MissShihTzu wrote: »

That's a real shame. I completely understand where you're coming from as I went through similar.

I am speaking from personal experience - I had a poor relationship with my own mother who has since passed. I was hurt and upset for YEARS! It messed me up in a lot of ways. I finally had to break the chains for the sake of my own mental health.

I am telling you this as your anger and resentment are having an effect on your children and your family life. Believe me - as young as your kids are, they will be picking up the vibes you give off even if they do not as yet understand why.

Finally - Have you spoken to your husband about this? What does he think??

He agrees with me that my mother has been hurtful and behaved in ridiculous ways. He didn't like how she was stuck into her phone when her granddaughter was talking to her.

It's just that he's not as emotionally affected by it because she's not his mother. She hasn't always treated him with respect either. He says he doesn't like or care about her.

He also suggested a B&B but I don't even want to see her. I guess he could take the kids to see her down there.

LegacyUser · 13-10-2019 5:38pm

chris525 wrote: »

Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.

It’s how the world works according to you. If people’s standards are ridiculous I for one would cut my losses.

I’m sorry that the circumstances surrounding your birth were so complicated. You are clearly struggling to deal with them. Your father kept the fact that he had a child from his parents, he wouldn’t be the first, & it doesn’t change the fact that he is their son. News of your existence was no doubt a shock but your grandparents seem to be dealing with it well. If you want to risk your future relationship with them by making ridiculous demands that’s up to you.

MissShihTzu · 13-10-2019 9:11pm

chris525 wrote: »

Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

Oh boy, OP!! People have told you the same thing at least once on this thread. Whether the grandparents want to paint their son's house or not, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! It's their money to spend as they choose! How do you know what's truth from what is not?

chris525 wrote: »

I've always had to comply to other people's standards to stay in their interest or good graces. It's how the world works.

Why? Who do you feel you have to do this? As long as you live within the law where you live and live a good life, that's the ONLY standard you have to live by!

I'm not trying to down you, OP but I'm beginning to think you're being a bit of a victim here. It's not healthy or good for you and your family. Leave your father's family alone! Have nothing to do with them. It's becoming increasingly obvious that whatever they may or may not tell you, it won't be accepted by you unless or until they show as much anger towards your father as you apparently do.

I'm out. I hope it works out for you.

qwerty13 · 14-10-2019 12:11am

Why do you think your mother should be a surrogate mother to your kids when she visits? ‘Minding’ them is not her job. Or her responsibility. And interaction is very dependent on personality and how often she sees them. Which I gather isn’t much.

Not going to list out my familial relationships, but they’re based on who I like / enjoy spending time with. I’m not a handy child minder for people, despite me not being married or having kids. I’ve made that quite clear to my siblings, with some pushback on their part. To be blunt, their child is not my problem.

You’ve never got on with your mother. Why on earth do you think she’s going to be a self-effacing grandmother? And you appear to want her to look after your children who she doesn’t even really know. If you don’t want her to stay as a genuine guest, then tell her that. That you only want her on your terms of child minding / helping out. Then she can make own choice and stay somewhere else.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 1:55pm

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Oh boy, OP!! People have told you the same thing at least once on this thread. Whether the grandparents want to paint their son's house or not, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! It's their money to spend as they choose! How do you know what's truth from what is not?

Why? Who do you feel you have to do this? As long as you live within the law where you live and live a good life, that's the ONLY standard you have to live by!

I'm not trying to down you, OP but I'm beginning to think you're being a bit of a victim here. It's not healthy or good for you and your family. Leave your father's family alone! Have nothing to do with them. It's becoming increasingly obvious that whatever they may or may not tell you, it won't be accepted by you unless or until they show as much anger towards your father as you apparently do.

I'm out. I hope it works out for you.

Yes, you have to live by standards. For example, you have to live by your employer's standards or else they will fire you. You have to avoid saying different things to different people or else you will hurt them.

You have to behave in certain ways in certain situations or else people will be angry with you. It's common sense. You have to live up to your spouse's standards or you will both want a divorce. This is how life and relationships work.

My father's family won't leave me alone. They keep emailing me and if I wait a week to email them back they don't like it. They were crying because I sent them a photo of me when I was 4. Well, this is their disgusting son's fault. I'll keep rubbing it in by sending them photos.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 1:57pm

qwerty13 wrote: »

Why do you think your mother should be a surrogate mother to your kids when she visits? ‘Minding’ them is not her job. Or her responsibility. And interaction is very dependent on personality and how often she sees them. Which I gather isn’t much.

Not going to list out my familial relationships, but they’re based on who I like / enjoy spending time with. I’m not a handy child minder for people, despite me not being married or having kids. I’ve made that quite clear to my siblings, with some pushback on their part. To be blunt, their child is not my problem.

You’ve never got on with your mother. Why on earth do you think she’s going to be a self-effacing grandmother? And you appear to want her to look after your children who she doesn’t even really know. If you don’t want her to stay as a genuine guest, then tell her that. That you only want her on your terms of child minding / helping out. Then she can make own choice and stay somewhere else.

No, I don't expect her to be a surrogate mother. I expect her to be decent by looking up from her phone when her grandchildren are talking to her. I expect her to WANT to play with them and to WANT to interact with them.

You don't go over to someone's house after they had a baby 2 weeks prior and not want to help out with chores etc. It's bad form.

She treats me like a stranger and not like a daughter.

Loveinapril · 14-10-2019 2:05pm

It has been posted so many times and you are failing to absorb it. Read this over and over and spend time trying to accept it.

You cannot change anyone else's behaviour. You can only change your own.

Your posts are FULL of your expectations for others that that they cannot or will not reach. It really is your responsibility to manage that. You will not change other people, no matter how petulant you become.

qwerty13 · 14-10-2019 2:07pm

chris525 wrote: »

No, I don't expect her to be a surrogate mother. I expect her to be decent by looking up from her phone when her grandchildren are talking to her. I expect her to WANT to play with them and to WANT to interact with them.

You don't go over to someone's house after they had a baby 2 weeks prior and not want to help out with chores etc. It's bad form.

She treats me like a stranger and not like a daughter.

But this is exactly your problem - about both of your parents, and your grandparents. You will accept nothing less than them WANTING to do what you would do in the same scenario. Life does not work that way!

You can tell them what you want. And they can choose to act on that or ignore it. And you can choose to accept their response, or cut them off.

What you CANT do is expect them to be magically inspired to do what you want, and then get really angry when they don’t live up to this. You are just setting yourself up for a fall OP.

zapper55 · 14-10-2019 2:11pm

And that's not going to change. No matter how much you want it to. The overriding message of the thread is that all you can control is your own behaviour. There's no point arguing the rights and wrongs with her it won't make any difference.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 2:14pm

Loveinapril wrote: »

It has been posted so many times and you are failing to absorb it. Read this over and over and spend time trying to accept it.

You cannot change anyone else's behaviour. You can only change your own.

Your posts are FULL of your expectations for others that that they cannot or will not reach. It really is your responsibility to manage that. You will not change other people, no matter how petulant you become.

You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.

qwerty13 · 14-10-2019 2:16pm

chris525 wrote: »

You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.

Then stop having a relationship with them.

Or learn to manage your own expectations better.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 2:27pm

qwerty13 wrote: »

Then stop having a relationship with them.

Or learn to manage your own expectations better.

It's just pretty sad that you can't even get some basic needs met by your own mother.

Loveinapril · 14-10-2019 2:27pm

chris525 wrote: »

You can't really have a relationship with someone if they don't want to even bother with your needs or expectations though. You'll just get hurt and angry.

Exactly. You are totally correct. What is the obvious solution to this problem?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 14-10-2019 2:30pm

chris525 wrote: »

Why is no one standing in my shoes? Why would you WANT to paint your son's house after finding out that he has been lying to everyone about who he is and what he has done?

Why would you WANT your mother to come and spend time with your kids when she caused you so much hurt and has clearly demonstrated that she is she is not maternal and is quite self involved?

Because she's family, and it's complicated. See how that works?

I'm sorry for how distressing and complex your childhood was, and I am very angry on behalf of the little girl who never had an adult she could rely on to go to bat for her, to love her and be there for her unconditionally and consistently.

But you are not that little girl anymore, you are an adult with children of your own and an ability to control your life. I know you're angry, how would you not be?

But who is it helping? And if you're honest, who is it harming?

You ARE NOT going to get closure over your early life from an external source like your mother or grandparents, and certainly not the kind you want. Whether or not your standards for how you want this all to play out are reasonable or justified actually doesn't hugely matter: they are unrealistic, they are not going to be met. Continuing to bang your head off that particular wall is not going to help and it's going to hurt you by keeping you stuck in this place of pain and rage.

You actually have a great amount of power here though it might not feel like it. You can break this cycle of abandonment and emotional abuse and dysfunction, save yourself from having it poison the rest of your life and save your children from being hurt by it. Because I guarantee if you go on this angry and defensive and preoccupied with the past, they will be hurt.

I'm not surprised and I don't blame you for being reflexively defensive given what you've been through, but try to resist that impulse and listen to what people are saying to you in the spirit it's intended, people are genuinely trying to help you.

DaeryssaOne · 14-10-2019 2:31pm

chris525 wrote: »

They were crying because I sent them a photo of me when I was 4. Well, this is their disgusting son's fault. I'll keep rubbing it in by sending them photos.

OP do you realise that you're thinking/acting like a stroppy teenager who isn't getting their way? This martyrdom is tiresome and you're not willing to listen to any of the good advice that has been posted here.

If you actually wanted a decent relationship with your grandparents you would understand that however badly your father has treated you, he is still their son and they aren't going to just disown him at this stage in life.

You are also not accepting that your mother is not going to change and is not going to want to fawn all over your kids on her holiday. I think you should tell her now that you have very high standards of how you expect her to act if she comes to stay with you and let her make a decision from there about whether she is bothered trying to be a different person for the sake of some free accommodation.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 2:45pm

Clark Rotten Scalp wrote: »

Why would you WANT your mother to come and spend time with your kids when she caused you so much hurt and has clearly demonstrated that she is she is not maternal and is quite self involved?

Because she's family, and it's complicated. See how that works?

I'm sorry for how distressing and complex your childhood was, and I am very angry on behalf of the little girl who never had an adult she could rely on to go to bat for her, to love her and be there for her unconditionally and consistently.

But you are not that little girl anymore, you are an adult with children of your own and an ability to control your life. I know you're angry, how would you not be?

But who is it helping? And if you're honest, who is it harming?

You ARE NOT going to get closure over your early life from an external source like your mother or grandparents, and certainly not the kind you want. Whether or not your standards for how you want this all to play out are reasonable or justified actually doesn't hugely matter: they are unrealistic, they are not going to be met. Continuing to bang your head off that particular wall is not going to help and it's going to hurt you by keeping you stuck in this place of pain and rage.

You actually have a great amount of power here though it might not feel like it. You can break this cycle of abandonment and emotional abuse and dysfunction, save yourself from having it poison the rest of your life and save your children from being hurt by it. Because I guarantee if you go on this angry and defensive and preoccupied with the past, they will be hurt.

I'm not surprised and I don't blame you for being reflexively defensive given what you've been through, but try to resist that impulse and listen to what people are saying to you in the spirit it's intended, people are genuinely trying to help you.

I have this weird, stupid hope that someday, sometime something will happen to my mother and she'll have an epiphany and change. It's happened to me a few times in life maybe it could happen to her.

Moving 500 km and then 8, 000 km away did help to break free of this. My maternal grandfather was good to me but he died when I was 21 and did not take actions against my mother when she was also screaming at him although he did not condone her actions.

chris525 · 14-10-2019 2:47pm

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

OP do you realise that you're thinking/acting like a stroppy teenager who isn't getting their way? This martyrdom is tiresome and you're not willing to listen to any of the good advice that has been posted here.

If you actually wanted a decent relationship with your grandparents you would understand that however badly your father has treated you, he is still their son and they aren't going to just disown him at this stage in life.

You are also not accepting that your mother is not going to change and is not going to want to fawn all over your kids on her holiday. I think you should tell her now that you have very high standards of how you expect her to act if she comes to stay with you and let her make a decision from there about whether she is bothered trying to be a different person for the sake of some free accommodation.

I am listening to the advice. I know they probably won't disown him but this is going to be an emotionally difficult place for me for a long time. They could at least criticize him.

Ursus Horribilis · 14-10-2019 2:50pm

Accepting that someone isn't going to change is a big step to take. You aren't nearly there yet. Your mother sounds like a horrible person and maybe you shouldn't be exposing your own children to her?

What do you think your grandfather should have done about your mother? Is this a mirror of why you're so angry with your father's parents? People who tolerated bad behaviour from their adult children.

How to cope with not being able to establish expectations with my mother's visits?

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