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How to cope with not being able to establish expectations with my mother's visits?

chris525

This is completely unrelated to my previous questions.

In 2016 my husband and I moved to Ireland with our daughter leaving my mother behind 8, 000 km away.

Historically, I have not ever had a good relationship with my mother. She has been selfish, mean, self-centered and verbally abusive. Won't go into too much detail but it's never been so bad that I'd cut her off completely but we just don't enjoy each other at all. We simply don't ever meet each other's expectations or needs in any way and annoy and bore each other.

Last time my mother came to visit was last Halloween. I was 2 weeks post-partum with her grandchild and this woman came to my house and stayed for 3 weeks and did not want to help me. All of the conversations were about her and she was so self-absorbed that I was crying in my bedroom.

I understand that she had never been to this country before but even after she did her sight-seeing when she came back in the evening she just sat on Facebook posting pictures and did not spend any time with her grandchildren. My daughter tried to start conversations with her like 'nanna, nanna, nanna' like 8 times but she wouldn't look up from her phone as she was on Facebook. When I asked her to help me because I had back pain she got vicious and just said' oh, I'm on vacation.' etc.

Basically it's been another year and she's talking about visiting again in 2020 or 2021. I told her that I'm not interested in having any tourists stay in my house as I have 2 young children (a 5 year old and a 1 year old) but if someone who actually wants to be a grandmother comes to visit then it's OK. She told me that she's not paying over 1K-2K and using all her vacation time to come and sit in my house and be a nanny to my kids for me.

The trouble is that my husband and I don't want someone who is not going to really be a true visitor stay in our house. It's very disruptive to our routine to have a visitor, extra work for us with the kids and cleaning, and more expensive electricity bill. We have enough to deal with as it is and a lot going on and are not interested in houseguests.

My husband and I get no help at all with the kids and no one is ever going to facilitate our vacations so I'm not keen on facilitating anyone else's especially if it's more work for me. I don't want to make it so that she can't have a relationship with her grandchildren though. But she's not very maternal and gets mad if they have a tantrum or don't want to do what she wants them to do.

My mother keeps saying things like this: I held your baby for hours last time. You're asking me to be something I'm not. I am a loving grandmother but I'm not the one you think I should be. You want to control me or not see me at all.

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zoobizoo

chris525 wrote: »

it's never been so bad that I'd cut her off completely

How much worse would it need to get ?

Why engage in "you need to be different" conversations when she never will be?

What would the worst thing be about cutting contact? That your kids don't have someone who doesn't care about them in their lives... ?

chris525

zoobizoo wrote: »

How much worse would it need to get ?

Why engage in "you need to be different" conversations when she never will be?

What would the worst thing be about cutting contact? That your kids don't have someone who doesn't care about them in their lives... ?

She does care about them she just can't be a hands-in maternal grandmother and because she can't live up to my standards and expectations of what a grandmother should be, I'll always be unhappy with her around.

lunamoon

Em, I think you're asking too much of her TBH. She's right, why should she spend 1k-2k of her own money to be a babysitter for a few weeks if that's not what she wants to do with her vacation. But also, at the same time, if that's not what she wants to do on a vacation then she shouldn't be coming to see you and should probably go somewhere else.

You can't change other people. You can't make them be something they are not.

I would suggest you say to her that you'd love her to visit but unfortunately you can't accommodate her this time.

zoobizoo

chris525 wrote: »

I'll always be unhappy with her around.

So don't have her around.

ManOfMystery

It's very simple. You have pretty much zero relationship with her (and to be honest it sounds like most of the reason for this is down to her) - and now your children are starting to experience the same.

I would simply not try to maintain any relationship at all. She is plainly not interested. By trying to maintain or force one, her grandchildren will only be exposed to disappointment when their wholly innocent expectations of a hug from Grandma, or playing with Grandma, - or anything at all from Grandma - are not met. I think it would be much easier on them, and you, if she simply didn't figure in your lives and there was no expectation of anything.

I know it sounds harsh, but it to seems to me like you're both trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship but there's absolutely no foundation there for it. Why force it?

[Deleted User]

chris525 wrote: »

This is completely unrelated to my previous questions.

I don't want to make it so that she can't have a relationship with her grandchildren though.

I'm sorry but I don't think this post should be taken in isolation from your other post. You have (understandable) issues with your mother, your father, your paternal grandparents that you need to get a handle on before you can start worrying about possible visits in 2020/2021.

Regarding your paternal Grandparents refusal to disown their son (your father) you have said:

chris525 wrote: »

Well, I simply can't handle people liking someone who treated me badly. It's not just in this situation but in all others.

Regarding your Mother you have said:

chris525 wrote: »

because she can't live up to my standards and expectations of what a grandmother should be, I'll always be unhappy with her around.

If you want to have a relationship with these people, you really need to start looking at yourself and seeing how you can let some of this anger go.

And if you can't accept them as they are, then may need to consider the possibility that you are all better off not pursuing a relationship.

Keep going to counselling.

chris525

lunamoon wrote: »

Em, I think you're asking too much of her TBH. She's right, why should she spend 1k-2k of her own money to be a babysitter for a few weeks if that's not what she wants to do with her vacation. But also, at the same time, if that's not what she wants to do on a vacation then she shouldn't be coming to see you and should probably go somewhere else.

You can't change other people. You can't make them be something they are not.

I would suggest you say to her that you'd love her to visit but unfortunately you can't accommodate her this time.

Well I'm not asking her to visit - she wants to visit but she expects to be able to use our home where 2 young kids live as a hotel and to not help out and just relax. We're never going to have enough money to visit her; there's 4 of us 8, 000 km flight and hotel etc.

zapper55

OP you are.missing the nuance of lunamoons post, especially the last sentence. It's a polite way of saying that your mother cant stay.

Now unless you are willing to say to her that it's not possible then she will come over. And it sounds like it's be horribly stressful for all concerned. But only you can set boundaries. You cant control her behaviour. Shes going to act exactly how she wants to act.

Idle Passerby

chris525 wrote: »

Well I'm not asking her to visit - she wants to visit but she expects to be able to use our home where 2 young kids live as a hotel and to not help out and just relax. We're never going to have enough money to visit her; there's 4 of us 8, 000 km flight and hotel etc.

Then don't offer her accomodation. Your not obliged to provide a free bed to anyone, particularly if their presence is stressful. Let her sort out a hotel for herself if she wants a holiday.

I get that you were let down by many people in your childhood. It's horrible and obviously you want to protect your children from similar neglect. Your mother was a poor parent to you, why do you expect her to be a better grandmother? It's obviously not in her nature to be caring or considerate. As others have said, you can't change other people, waiting for them to change is wasted effort. If it causes you upset to interact with someone, stop interacting with them. Take yourself out of the unhealthy dynamic.

seamus

You both have valid points. She shouldn't be expected to become a child minder to her grandchildren because she happens to be in close proximity.

You shouldn't be expected to play host so someone can have a holiday.

So, as others say, tell her you'd be delighted to have her visit but you don't have a place for her to stay, she'll have to make her own arrangements.

Then your children can still see their grandmother and she can spend her evenings updating Facebook from an AirBnB.

chris525

seamus wrote: »

She shouldn't be expected to become a child minder to her grandchildren because she happens to be in close proximity.

What's the point in visiting young children if you don't want to mind them or take care of them at all even after you come back from sightseeing? It doesn't mean that my husband and I make her into our full-time nanny for 2 weeks but when she comes back from a day out why not mind the kids instead of going on the cell phone? That's my issue with it.

Ursus Horribilis

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

chris525

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren. I wouldn't want people around in my house with my children if they aren't going to lift a finger. What useless grandparents! Maybe the fact that I don't enjoy her company makes it worse. How are you meant to socialize when you've got toddlers who will get into things and break things if you turn your eyes away for 30 seconds anyways?

lunamoon

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I'm not a grandparent but when I visit my brothers/sisters, I don't feel I'm expected to mind their kids. I end up doing a bit of it anyway but it's more because I enjoy their company.

There are grandparents out there who don't mind their grandchildren. I know someone whose mother told him straight out that she wouldn't be doing any childminding. She still saw her grandchildren etc but didn't mind them unless there was an emergency. A friend of a friend is in the same boat with her mother. It's not as unusual as you think.

To echo this. My sons grandparents said outright that they will only mind him in an emergency. It's not really unusual.

Ursus Horribilis

chris525 wrote: »

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren

The clue is right here. Your mother is not your grandmother. She wasn't much of a mother to you. Why do you think she'd change just because these are her grandchildren? You are expecting her to be something she can't /won't be.

DaeryssaOne

chris525 wrote: »

Sheesh, my grandparents practically raised me and this woman (my mother) is being useless to her own grandchildren.

But your mother is still the same person who (I assume) didn't raise you meaning your grandparents had to. Just because she is now a grandparent herself doesn't mean she'll suddenly want to dote on your children - she is still the same person.

chris525

lunamoon wrote: »

To echo this. My sons grandparents said outright that they will only mind him in an emergency. It's not really unusual.

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

chris525

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

But your mother is still the same person who (I assume) didn't raise you meaning your grandparents had to. Just because she is now a grandparent herself doesn't mean she'll suddenly want to dote on your children - she is still the same person.

Well she can't ever expect me to be thrilled to see her then

seamus

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

Doting grandparents and childminders are two different things tbh.

One can be a doting grandparent without wiping arses or handing out discipline.

Likewise, minding your grandkids doesn't automatically make you a doting grandparent. There are plenty of people who recount terrible childhoods at the hands of grandparents who raised them.

I think you're being very unfair to assume that someone who doesn't want to chase kids around half the day automatically doesn't love them.

strandroad

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

There is huge difference between interacting with children meaningfully as a doting grandparent and minding them. Your mother is not willing to do either it seems but you seem incredibly set in your ways too if you want her to do both.

Dial Hard

chris525 wrote: »

Wow. That's just not something that I can look up to and admire. Only doting grandparents are what I can admire.

It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

chris525

strandroad wrote: »

There is huge difference between interacting with children meaningfully as a doting grandparent and minding them. Your mother is not willing to do either it seems but you seem incredibly set in your ways too if you want her to do both.

My biggest problem is that when she came back from her sightseeing she just sat there on her phone and didn't play with the kids. Only very rarely and for a few mins. Sometimes my daughter even tried to start a conversation with her and she was stuck onto her phone. Also, that all the conversations were about her and never asked me any questions or my husband any questions.

chris525

Dial Hard wrote: »

It seems there are many, many things you can't look up to and admire. You mentioned earlier that she can't live up to your expectations and standards. Neither can your grandparents in your other thread. I suspect there are very, very few people who can, tbh.

You are absolutely filled with resentment towards people who have failed to live up to your (impossible, by the sounds of things) expectations. You have two threads active in which you are forensically examining the words and actions of everyone else in order to find fault with them but not once have you turned your gaze inwards. I honestly think it's time to do that, OP.

Asking someone to look up from their phone when their granddaughter is talking to her is an impossible standard?

Ursus Horribilis

chris525 wrote: »

Asking someone to look up from their phone when their granddaughter is talking to her is an impossible standard?

It is when it is not in your mother's nature. You are asking her to be something she will never be.

BrokenArrows

OP your situation sounds exactly the same as my wifes mother.
She occasionally visits and basically expects us to wait on her hand a foot, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, tea, coffee. All while she sits on the couch watching TV, and it eventually erupts into massive arguments between us all once we eventually tell her to do something for herself or to help out.

Ive told my wife that shes not staying here anymore. There are plenty of reasonably priced BnB's near by. She can stay there and pop over for a few hours throughout her stay. Having her in the house for 2 weeks constantly puts a massive strain on us.

At that age you must accept that your mother will NEVER EVER EVER change. She is who she is and you need to stop expecting her to be the loving, caring and considerate mother that you want. So you need to prioritise you are your family. Tell her if she wants to visit that she can stay in a hotel or BnB and visit the house to see them throughout her stay. If she doesnt want to do that then its clear the only reason for her visit is to have somewhere free to stay while on holiday.

zoobizoo

zoobizoo wrote: »

So don't have her around.

Problem solved. Don't have her stay. As advised on page 1.

I'm not sure what further advice you want.

chris525

BrokenArrows wrote: »

OP your situation sounds exactly the same as my wifes mother.
She occasionally visits and basically expects us to wait on her hand a foot, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, drinks, tea, coffee. All while she sits on the couch watching TV, and it eventually erupts into massive arguments between us all once we eventually tell her to do something for herself or to help out.

Ive told my wife that shes not staying here anymore. There are plenty of reasonably priced BnB's near by. She can stay there and pop over for a few hours throughout her stay. Having her in the house for 2 weeks constantly puts a massive strain on us.

At that age you must accept that your mother will NEVER EVER EVER change. She is who she is and you need to stop expecting her to be the loving, caring and considerate mother that you want. So you need to prioritise you are your family. Tell her if she wants to visit that she can stay in a hotel or BnB and visit the house to see them throughout her stay. If she doesnt want to do that then its clear the only reason for her visit is to have somewhere free to stay while on holiday.

Yes, I agree. We'll try that as a solution.

I guess on a more personal note that it's emotional for me to see her or even think about seeing her due to the history here. It's like all the unresolved relationship problems surface.

Ursus Horribilis

So why exactly do you have her to stay? Other than she's the person who carried you in her womb for 9 months and brought you into this world.

chris525

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So why exactly do you have her to stay? Other than she's the person who carried you in her womb for 9 months and brought you into this world.

It's complicated. She's my only blood relative on my mother's side (father was absent) and in the event of an emergency we would still sent each other money etc.

However, she has caused me a lot of hurt and I think I've moved around a lot in my life because I could not solve the issues with her. I had to move out at 17 because of issues from her. I wish that I could have come home from university in the summers and after uni but she wouldn't let me so I've grown apart from a lot of childhood friends. I don't have deep ties anywhere etc.

I think that she does care for me in her own way but she's simply too self-centered to have close, loving family relationships.

MissShihTzu

That's a real shame. I completely understand where you're coming from as I went through similar.

I am speaking from personal experience - I had a poor relationship with my own mother who has since passed. I was hurt and upset for YEARS! It messed me up in a lot of ways. I finally had to break the chains for the sake of my own mental health.

I am telling you this as your anger and resentment are having an effect on your children and your family life. Believe me - as young as your kids are, they will be picking up the vibes you give off even if they do not as yet understand why.

Finally - Have you spoken to your husband about this? What does he think??