The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Rewatched Dark Knight for comparison and it struck me the way both films presents the people of Gotham really speaks to the era they were made. Dark Knight released in the year Obama got elected 2008 presents an optimistic view that Gothomites won't blow each other up to save themselves. Joker on the other hand, made in the era of Trump, presents a people so broken, so worn down by the corruption and inequality they see around them, that they hero worship a killer.

That's assuming its not Fleck daydreaming on his way to Arkham of course.

Acting wise I think Phoenix's performance is at least as impressive as Ledgers, that being said Ledgers Joker will always be the definitive one for me. Joker works best as an unknowable force of nature, a Terminator, who can't be reasoned with, who can't be bought and absolutely will not stop until you die laughing. Phoenix's Joker is no Crown prince of Crime and would absolutely have stopped if he had medicare for all.

To me, the Dark Knight represents more of a cultural paranoia about terrorism, which was rife in the 00s. Ledger's Joker doesn't discriminate in who he targets - he goes after police, politicians, judges, gangsters, the rich, ordinary civilians - and his sole aim is to create chaos and prove that nobody is as good as they pretend they are. The scene where he burns all the money and goes on about how what he's doing has nothing to do with money and everything to do with sending a message - this spoke directly to fears about global terrorism, imo. The Joker as an unknowable figure who won't negotiate, can't be bought, etc. was also a play on these fears.

This version of the Joker seems to be speaking more about the radicalisation of white American men, imo, and the anxieties surrounding that particular issue in the US at the moment - the mass shooters and the likes. But like others have said, I think it's trying to put a word in on a lot of different issues at once without really saying anything of huge substance about any of it.

Ledger's Joker remains the benchmark for me. His performance of the character set the standard, but also what the character represented was more complete, for me.

PressRun wrote: »

This version of the Joker seems to be speaking more about the radicalisation of white American men, imo, and the anxieties surrounding that particular issue in the US at the moment - the mass shooters and the likes. But like others have said, I think it's trying to put a word in on a lot of different issues at once without really saying anything of huge substance about any of it.

A bit of a stretch , the character was in his 40's, he wasnt really in the demographic. I think we can all agree though that the media sh1t the bed here, when it came to their narratives the sign at the start said it best "Everything Must Go" . I'd imagine they were disappointed that there wasn't a related spree shooting

Greyfox wrote: »

Seen it last night, brilliant film, very tense. Phoenix's performance was amazing, I never though I'd say it but his Joker is just as memerable as Ledgers or Nickelson's

Yet he was only Joker for perhaps 20 min out of the 2hrs. That shows the strength of his performance.

silverharp wrote: »

there might be but doesn't mean the movie was specifically bringing it up. The guy wasn't some angst ridden entitled teenager or twenty something. Can for sure see that you can bring mental illness, parental abuse, austerity affecting mental health services into the mix.

Not all shooters are angst ridden teenagers. In fact, a lot of those shootings are becoming more and more political than just random acts of violence from angry teenagers. Those shootings are symptoms of a malaise within American society and I think the movie is looking at that malaise.
It obviously isn't making explicit reference to shooters, but it's reflective of a society that is preoccupied with the "lone wolf" type and domestic terrorism and where it comes from.

Just back from seeing this, I loved It. Outstanding performances, great cinematography, music choice. I also liked the messages on wealth distribution and mental health. Fantastic.

That bathroom scene post train incident was so poignant. What an amazing piece and with the cello brooding away in the background. Goodbye Arthur hello Joker.

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

That bathroom scene post train incident was so poignant. What an amazing piece and with the cello brooding away in the background. Goodbye Arthur hello Joker.

I seen a very interesting video on youtube and it showed loads of the outtakes that never made the movie and spoke about scene's that changed from the originally script,


That was one scene that changed and i'm glad it did as it was brilliant originally he was going to try and shoot himself in the bathroom ,


Also some other major differences ,

peteeeed wrote: »

Stories out today that glitter had sold all his rights to the song quite some time ago so won't get any royalties

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2019-10-11/joker-gary-glitter-rock-and-roll-part-2

A masterstroke including song,generating lots of extra contrived controversy, feels very orchestrated.

HighLine wrote: »

Hopefully that will put all the snowflakes and easily offended at ease.

don't know about that , people didn't want the P*ick getting any money and rightly so (to me a snowflake is when piers morgan cried for a month on twitter about a vegan sausage )
the song fits the scene so well so i'm glad its all sorted

blinding wrote: »

Come on now . You know how it works these days .

Women can do as they please and men do as they are told .

yes we men have it so hard , poor us