RWC '15: Pool A General Chat [AUS/ENG/WAL/FIJ/URU]

Ceadog · 22-09-2015 5:43pm

Joseph was woeful against Fiji, I can't even remember him touching the ball all game. Barritt was completely useless too.

This is where Lancaster's move of bringing Burgess and Slade instead of Burrell or Twelvetrees could backfire. With his experienced players either injured or playing utter rubbish, his only other realistic option is to start an incredibly inexperienced partnership against Jamie Roberts and Scott Williams in a crunch match. That is of course unless he wants to risk his backup fly-half, Farrell, at 12, and take a punt on Barritt playing himself into form.

The more I see teams like Wales and England with these issues the more I'm thankful for Saint Joe :P

total former · 22-09-2015 5:48pm

It would be madness to play Burgess at 13, he'd be completely lost. It has to be Slade.

Stheno · 22-09-2015 5:49pm

total former wrote: »

It would be madness to play Burgess at 13, he'd be completely lost. It has to be Slade.

Is Slade the chap who has only one cap?

thomond2006 · 22-09-2015 5:51pm

Ceadog wrote: »

Joseph was woeful against Fiji, I can't even remember him touching the ball all game. Barritt was completely useless too.

This is where Lancaster's move of bringing Burgess and Slade instead of Burrell or Twelvetrees could backfire. With his experienced players either injured or playing utter rubbish, his only other realistic option is to start an incredibly inexperienced partnership against Jamie Roberts and Scott Williams in a crunch match. That is of course unless he wants to risk his backup fly-half, Farrell, at 12, and take a punt on Barritt playing himself into form.

The more I see teams like Wales and England with these issues the more I'm thankful for Saint Joe :P

Joseph, woeful against Fiji?! He played a big part in at least two tries. In no way was he woeful.

aimee1 · 22-09-2015 6:05pm

.ak wrote: »

Hmm. With Scott and Roberts in midfield.

Thats assuming neither picks up an injury having their weetabix one morning....

Stheno · 22-09-2015 6:06pm

aimee1 wrote: »

Thats assuming neither picks up an injury having their weetabix one morning....

Ah now I'd say that's far too much exertion for them to risk these days

total former · 22-09-2015 6:55pm

Stheno wrote: »

Is Slade the chap who has only one cap?

Yes, but when the alternative is Burgess, his inexperience is less of a concern

Stheno · 22-09-2015 7:13pm

total former wrote: »

Yes, but when the alternative is Burgess, his inexperience is less of a concern

Don't know much about either of them tbh

irishbucsfan · 22-09-2015 7:15pm

Stheno wrote: »

Don't know much about either of them tbh

BOD was tooting Slade's horn after his first cap and calling for him to travel.

Slade is very young, played 10 against us at under-20 level not too long ago.

MrWatt · 22-09-2015 7:16pm

After Japan v RSA who knows.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 22-09-2015 7:17pm

The fact Slade has been playing in a position and indeed in Union more than 5 minutes would push me towards picking him.

irishbucsfan · 22-09-2015 7:24pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The fact Slade has been playing in a position and indeed in Union more than 5 minutes would push me towards picking him.

Not really sure Slade is much more settled positionally than Burgess. He's moved around a lot.

Ceadog · 22-09-2015 8:17pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Joseph, woeful against Fiji?! He played a big part in at least two tries. In no way was he woeful.

Was completely anonymous in the first half from my recollection, tap on to Brown for his try aside, I think I remember him popping up on the wing at some point. I'm not sure how brushing off a weak tackle and making a simple pass in the run up to Brown's second is a big part, but still. Playing outside Barritt is hard enough, nevermind looking good.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The fact Slade has been playing in a position and indeed in Union more than 5 minutes would push me towards picking him.

Slade is very much a Madigan kind of player, buckets of raw talent, can play fly half, centre, and fullback, and oozes attacking threat. He is very unproven at international level, excellent debut aside.

total former wrote: »

It would be madness to play Burgess at 13, he'd be completely lost. It has to be Slade.

12/13 are pretty much interchangeable these days, Burgess has played at both for Bath. That said, I think it'd be madness to select him against Wales. He was badly exposed by Nadolo, who completely wrong footed him and ran past him. If Wales targeted him he could have players like North, Roberts, and Williams coming down his channel all day and while he's more than a physical match for them, his positioning would be a real issue.

penybont exile · 22-09-2015 8:57pm

Phil Bennett team-talk prior to the 5N game in Cardiff (1977) .........

“Look what these b

s have done to Wales,” Bennett shouted at his squad. “They’ve taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English – and that's who you are playing this afternoon.”

That's old-school for you ...... might need some of this psychology come Saturday night ......

Gotta love Benny ...... legend has it he carried a stamp around just in case someone asked for his autograph!

Podge_irl · 22-09-2015 9:16pm

aimee1 wrote: »

Getting a LBP and no more injuries would be a good result. Any win over fiji would give them a shot against the aussies

I would think no matter how many injuries Wales have they always have a better shot at beating England than Australia.

English Lurker · 22-09-2015 9:36pm

I don't think 12 and 13 are interchangeable; crucially, 13 has a lot more riding on his decision making of who to go for in defence, and that has been Burgess' besetting sin in union to date there. The thought of him playing 13 in a big game gives me the chills, and it should be noted Burgess improved as he moved inwards for Bath. He's far likelier to get the big run-up he likes to carry there as well.

Slade would be my preferred unless Jack Nowell's considered an option there; Nowell finished the season for Exeter and is the closest like for like we have with Joseph.

I'd rather see Barritt at 13 than Burgess. Apparently they've been training in a Farrell-Barritt-Burgess unit, which is enough to make me cry.

penybont exile · 22-09-2015 9:43pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would think no matter how many injuries Wales have they always have a better shot at beating England than Australia.

Saturday is win or bust for me .......

Momentum from a win would carry us to the QF ...... a loss would be very difficult to recover from. TBH .... I've thought this from the moment I saw the fixture schedule.

Ceadog · 22-09-2015 9:51pm

English Lurker wrote: »

I'd rather see Barritt at 13 than Burgess. Apparently they've been training in a Farrell-Barritt-Burgess unit, which is enough to make me cry.

That would work if they were going to play 10 man rugby, but they haven't got a strong enough pack to do that. Fingers crossed they try it though

irishbucsfan · 22-09-2015 10:43pm

I'm hearing it's going to be Farrell-Burgess-Barritt rather than England risking Burgess at 13. That'd make more sense to me. A big call for Lancaster to make, a huge statement of intent in terms of where they intend to go after Wales imo. Sending the headhunters after the fake-tanned fairy boys? Or sending the thick-headed orcs after the refined Welsh footballers?

aimee1 · 22-09-2015 10:50pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm hearing it's going to be Farrell-Burgess-Barritt rather than England risking Burgess at 13. That'd make more sense to me. A big call for Lancaster to make, a huge statement of intent in terms of where they intend to go after Wales imo. Sending the headhunters after the fake-tanned fairy boys? Or sending the thick-headed orcs after the refined Welsh footballers?

This has 15-9 written all over it

English Lurker · 22-09-2015 10:58pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm hearing it's going to be Farrell-Burgess-Barritt rather than England risking Burgess at 13. That'd make more sense to me. A big call for Lancaster to make, a huge statement of intent in terms of where they intend to go after Wales imo. Sending the headhunters after the fake-tanned fairy boys? Or sending the thick-headed orcs after the refined Welsh footballers?

Fight fire with fire

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 22-09-2015 11:50pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not really sure Slade is much more settled positionally than Burgess. He's moved around a lot.

Is he moved from the forwards to the backs though?

Doesn't matter anyway because according to reports Burgess is in. I can see himself and Farrell getting yellows or worse. If Phillips starts for Wales as some are calling for I can see him going too. Don't think this will be a very good match to be honest.

Ceadog · 23-09-2015 12:12am

Big call dropping Ford for the big game, although I'm not sure even he'd get a lot of change out of a Barritt/Burgess centre partnership.

awec · 23-09-2015 12:13am

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696

Ford dropped. Farrell in. Barritt and Burgess in the centre, though it's not an official team announcement so doesn't mention who is 12 and 13.

Don't know why Ford was dropped, he's better than Farrell IMO.

irishbucsfan · 23-09-2015 12:17am

awec wrote: »

Don't know why Ford was dropped, he's better than Farrell IMO.

Because rugby isn't black and white. Players aren't just better than others etc. etc.

Ceadog · 23-09-2015 12:26am

awec wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/34324696

Ford dropped. Farrell in. Barritt and Burgess in the centre, though it's not an official team announcement so doesn't mention who is 12 and 13.

Don't know why Ford was dropped, he's better than Farrell IMO.

Probably because he played pretty well when he came on against Fiji, plus he's more in the Wilkinson mode of "kick the leather off it, tackle everything, but under no circumstances pass it" which works well with Barritt/Burgess :P

English Lurker · 23-09-2015 6:34am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Because rugby isn't black and white. Players aren't just better than others etc. etc.

On the one hand, I'd agree with awec that Ford is a straight-up better player, in that I would back him to have more impact on a game than Farrell 9 times out of 10.

On the other hand, there are things Farrell does better, namely tackle, and, uh, maybe keep his head. Maybe. I mean, Ford hasn't the greatest record when the going gets tough, his game management can fly to bits, but Farrell's not exactly immune to that himself either, and should have been sent off in his last big game, so... Every other facet of the game, I have Ford at least equal.

It would seem the game plan is:
a) Stop the Welsh on the gain line
b) Use Burgess to get over the game line as lord knows Barritt won't
c) ???
d) Profit Kick ball aimlessly downfield and tell the wings to chase it if they ever want to touch it, cos this midfield ain't made for passing.

Farrell in fairness is better for that game plan. But I'm not sure it's a good one (it's certainly risky in that the entirety of England will descend on him with great and furious wrath if it goes wrong) and, honestly, if Slade could goal-kick as well as Farrell he'd probably execute it better. He'd certainly execute the defensive and ball kicking duties better than Burgess, and might even allow our wings to see it, which would be nice.

Also, I'm going to run for Prime Minister on a campaign in which comparing St Johnny and Farrell carries the same jail sentence as murder. Obviously that wouldn't stop most of you, but just saying... :mad:

penybont exile · 23-09-2015 7:06am

If this is the English 10, 12, 13 combo then happy days ........

Might regret saying that in a few days mind.

23-09-2015 7:54am

Burgess learning on the job in a WC test match.

Guy is a tank, no doubt, but he's not exactly very good at the game of Rugby Union...

sydthebeat · 23-09-2015 8:06am

My God, going to be a bish bosh bosh, round the corner, rinse repeat. ..... kinda game.

Intriguing, but not one for the purists.

23-09-2015 8:09am

sydthebeat wrote: »

My God, going to be a bish bosh bosh, round the corner, rinse repeat. ..... kinda game.

Intriguing, but not one for the purists.

Surely is 'one for the purists'?

(Doesn't that phrase kind of echo 'a face only a mother could love')

23-09-2015 8:59am

England and Wales have had some highly charged encounters over the last couple of years and Wales seem to show up massively and spoil the party when other teams are having a good run.

I think this is going to be explosive. Both teams are going to have to be ready for one of the most intense, physical aggressive encounters we will have seen in a long time.

I agree with Penybont Exile, this is do or die for Wales - they need a win here or I think they are in trouble. Not game over, but certainly usually where you hit the "load previous save" button.

I hope it lives up to the billing, would be a shame if either side threw the towel in early.

Can't call it, England have the advantage but only one thing is for certain, there will be blood.

sydthebeat · 23-09-2015 10:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely is 'one for the purists'?

(Doesn't that phrase kind of echo 'a face only a mother could love')

well taking 'purist' to mean

A purist is one who desires that an item remain true to its essence and free from adulterating or diluting influences.

then no, not one for the purists

As far as id perceive, purists in rugby want to see free flowing running rugby with skill and guile

not 30 lads bashing against each other.

.ak · 23-09-2015 12:13pm

Yeah but usually the phrase, in context to a rugby match, one for the purists refers to a 6-3 win on a windy wet night in Terenure.

Podge_irl · 23-09-2015 12:14pm

.ak wrote: »

Yeah but usually the phrase, in context to a rugby match, one for the purists refers to a 6-3 win on a windy wet night in Terenure.

Would be my reading of the phrase too. Purists in the rugby sense would be more those who enjoy the intricacies of forward play than free-flowing rugby.

irishbucsfan · 23-09-2015 12:18pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

well taking 'purist' to mean

then no, not one for the purists

As far as id perceive, purists in rugby want to see free flowing running rugby with skill and guile

not 30 lads bashing against each other.

Nah purists want to see Leinster Junior league style rugby. Physicality and work rate winning out over namby pamby "skills". The kind of rugby the sport is built on. None of this "passing" that the professionals put on for the cameras.

Scythica · 23-09-2015 12:23pm

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/23/rugby-world-cup-2015-jonathan-joseph-miss-rest-england-pool-fixtures

Shame if true, fantasy league re-adjustments are go

Stheno · 23-09-2015 4:51pm

Fijian no. 14 looks to be out of the game after his knee went when he was tackled.

bilston · 23-09-2015 4:58pm

If this Australian team clicks then it could be pretty fun to watch.

Kiwi_knock · 23-09-2015 5:01pm

That was shocking from Genia

Stheno · 23-09-2015 5:05pm

What did Fiji do in that scrum to win the penalty?

bilston · 23-09-2015 5:05pm

Can anyone hookers actually hook the ball anymore?!

DDC1990 · 23-09-2015 5:07pm

Joke of a scrum penalty. Puts Fiji in a great position.

irishbucsfan · 23-09-2015 5:08pm

bilston wrote: »

Can anyone hookers actually hook the ball anymore?!

Can anyone writers actually write English anymore?

corny · 23-09-2015 5:08pm

The Australians were intent on not conceding a try there. Multiple infringements.

crisco10 · 23-09-2015 5:10pm

corny wrote: »

The Australians were intent on not conceding a try there. Multiple infringements.

About 3 offsides alone!

DDC1990 · 23-09-2015 5:11pm

Glen Jackson riding the Aussies.

I wonder why?

bilston · 23-09-2015 5:11pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can anyone writers actually write English anymore?

I'm blaming the IPad for that one!

bilston · 23-09-2015 5:12pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Glen Jackson riding the Aussies.

I wonder why?

Because they're fit?

crisco10 · 23-09-2015 5:13pm

Think Hooper still recovering from being boshed when he knocked that on?

RWC '15: Pool A General Chat [AUS/ENG/WAL/FIJ/URU]

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