Luas Finglas

LeinsterDub · 27-04-2018 9:18am #1

Good news for Finglas. FingLUAS work will start as early as next year.

I’ve been pushing constantly to get this project sped up and I’m glad that to report an early win for Finglas: design works, route selection and the various planning applications is due to commence next year, 2019, as the design for MetroLink is concluded.

I have been working on this for months and, as the only local representative who sought any meetings with the relevant transport bodies specifically o...
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From Noel Rock TD via Facebook

So get the crayons out lads. What are the key locations to hit. There is no Northern link up with ML which i think is rather short sighted.

Kevtherev1 · 27-04-2018 10:56am

A no brainer project that is sensible to deliver as soon as possible. It would cost around 270 to 300 million Euro to deliver on last estimates. A lot of money but a reasonable expenditure for the state. The evening hereld article by wayne o connor is now online.

Khuitlio · 27-04-2018 11:51am

Will be glad to see this progressing next year, very beneficial to that area of the city and makes LCC much more attractive to a lot of people. Should be possible to have >90% of the route completely segregated either at grade or elevated. I'd like to see it go through Tolka Valley Park, down Finglas Road to Charlestown and then a P&R on the far side of the M50. Rezoning Dublin Industrial Estate at Broombridge for high density mixed use like Sandyford and collecting a levy on developments should be a decent source of funding for it.

LeinsterDub · 27-04-2018 12:56pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

The evening hereld article by wayne o connor is now online.

Can't seem to find it. Can you post the link?

RobertFoster · 27-04-2018 1:07pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can't seem to find it. Can you post the link?

https://www.herald.ie/news/full-speed-ahead-on-project-to-take-luas-all-the-way-to-finglas-36849787.html

Kevtherev1 · 27-04-2018 1:14pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can't seem to find it. Can you post the link?

Tried to post link, boards wont let me post links yet, not enough posts.

RobertFoster wrote: »

https://www.herald.ie/news/full-speed-ahead-on-project-to-take-luas-all-the-way-to-finglas-36849787.html

That is the article link, great. Noel Rock TD (Dublin North West Constituency) has hung his entire political capital on getting luas to finglas. Like a man possessed trying move it forward.

LeinsterDub · 27-04-2018 1:46pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

That is the article link, great. Noel Rock TD (Dublin North West Constituency) has hung his entire political capital on getting luas to finglas. Like a man possessed trying move it forward.

Flying dangerously close to politics here but with him losing most of his base in the south of the constituency he's needs to have big wins to win more of the the middle ground and thus the last seat

Heartbreak Hank · 27-04-2018 1:47pm

What is the clearance between trams on the new line from north of the point it goes into the cutting at Broadstone? Is it the same as the red line or the green line south of Charlemont?

Bray Head · 27-04-2018 3:02pm

It would make sense to CPO a chunk of the industrial units north of the canal and drive the line through that way.

It is a terrible use of land and long-term would be much better suited to a mix of high-rise residential and offices.

roadmaster · 27-04-2018 5:20pm

A Park and Ride located around Coldwinters would be very succesful i believe. N2 Commuters could easliy get off the M2 and go up the old N2 park up and hop on the luas

LeinsterDub · 30-04-2018 2:26pm

THE NTA SAYS that it will examine a proposal to extend the Luas to Finglas “in due course”, but sources say a TD’s call to get planning for the extension is “a decade premature”.

http://www.thejournal.ie/finglas-luas-premature-3968622-Apr2018/

A bit of ambition would be nice. Why do we need to wait till ML is finished?

specialbyte · 30-04-2018 2:42pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/finglas-luas-premature-3968622-Apr2018/

A bit of ambition would be nice. Why do we need to wait till ML is finished?

I'm somehow not surprised that Noel Rock has been running his mouth and over promising tbh. Hype is what he is good at and there is an election looming. Anyway enough politics.

I'd love to see the Finglas extension. It will make the (potential) Broombridge to Charlemont stub of the green line a real line rather than just a weird stub line. The opportunity for a park and ride outside the M50 by the N2 and the opportunity provide high quality transport infrastructure to Finglas, a historical under privileged area all sound like great things in my book.

Though it sounds like Noel Rock doesn't know what he's talking about from the Journal article he is talking some sense. I'd love to see the NTA/TII pick and protect a route much sooner rather than later. Even if the project has to sit on a shelf for 3-5 years after route selection as we wait for capital funding to build the extension. We've all seen too many good potential routes destroyed because we didn't protect them early enough.

Edit: the other option is to provide the NTA/TII with more funding so they can hire more engineers to organise and manage multiple projects at once. Last I heard almost every single TII engineer who works on light-rail projects is working on the MetroLink project right now. It's a huge project and there aren't that many of them tbh.

marno21 · 30-04-2018 4:15pm

NDP 2018-2027 provides funding to get Luas Finglas, Poolbeg, Bray and Lucan through planning and fully designed.

This is Noel Rock getting ahead of himself the same way Brendan Griffin got ahead of himself announcing road works on the Macroom bypass in 2015 when it wasn't to start until 2020.

Sam Russell · 30-04-2018 4:55pm

specialbyte wrote: »

I'd love to see the Finglas extension. It will make the (potential) Broombridge to Charlemont stub of the green line a real line rather than just a weird stub line. The opportunity for a park and ride outside the M50 by the N2 and the opportunity provide high quality transport infrastructure to Finglas, a historical under privileged area all sound like great things in my book.

Of course, the Broombridge/ Charlemont Green Line does not need to stop at Charlemont - it could go East along Adelaide Road as far as Leeson St, or even continue to Grand Canal Dock and connect with the Dart. A lot of people work at GCD.

marno21 · 02-05-2018 12:47pm

2029 is the latest estimate from the NTA

https://www.herald.ie/news/no-guarantee-of-finglas-luas-by-2029-says-nta-36864953.html

Maybe Noel Rock mixed up his 2019 and 2029.

MayoSalmon · 02-05-2018 12:51pm

marno21 wrote:

2029 is the latest estimate from the NTA

At best..you won't see it for another 30 years Id say

marno21 · 02-05-2018 12:53pm

MayoSalmon wrote: »

At best..you won't see it for another 30 years Id say

We might as long as they stay away from the GAA clubs in the area.

Zebra3 · 02-05-2018 1:05pm

Probably an easy piece for any politicians to say they’ve delivered on.

Sierra Oscar · 03-05-2018 5:43pm

marno21 wrote: »

We might as long as they stay away from the GAA clubs in the area.

I actually suspect this could end up being fast-tracked if Metrolink gets bogged down and runs into difficulties with politicians and local residents.

The Government will need a transport infrastructure project that they can say they are actively delivering on. Similar to Luass BXD when Dart Underground and Metro North were canned.

LXFlyer · 03-05-2018 5:48pm

Finding a suitable route will be a challenge given the reasonable regularity of buses being pulled from Finglas South due to anti-social behaviour.

LeinsterDub · 03-05-2018 6:50pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Finding a suitable route will be a challenge given the reasonable regularity of buses being pulled from Finglas South due to anti-social behaviour.

They said the same about Broombridge and Dublin Bikes

LXFlyer · 03-05-2018 7:24pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They said the same about Broombridge and Dublin Bikes

Broombridge hasn’t had anti-social problems on the buses and the derelict site beside the railways has been built on.

I don’t see the similarities.

Kevtherev1 · 03-05-2018 7:56pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I actually suspect this could end up being fast-tracked if Metrolink gets bogged down and runs into difficulties with politicians and local residents.

The Government will need a transport infrastructure project that they can say they are actively delivering on. Similar to Luass BXD when Dart Underground and Metro North were canned.

I agree with this. The finglas extension should be an elevated and segregated line as much as possible towards Finglas/ Charlestown and terminate just after the m50 with a park and ride.

Noel Rock when banging his Finglas luas drum wants the extension to go to Daristown Metro Station. But daristown should be reserved as a terminus for the potential Metro West if ever built.

Muahahaha · 09-05-2018 4:47pm

It would be crazy for it to terminate with a P&R outside the M50 when it is just a few kilometers short of the airport terminals. I think any Finglas Luas needs to terminate in the airport as a supplement to a future Metrolink, not as replacement. As it stands the large parts of Dublin 11 and Dublin 15 cannot get to the airport on PT without going to the city centre first.

LuckyLloyd · 09-05-2018 5:00pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

It would be crazy for it to terminate with a P&R outside the M50 when it is just a few kilometers short of the airport terminals. I think any Finglas Luas needs to terminate in the airport as a supplement to a future Metrolink, not as replacement. As it stands the large parts of Dublin 11 and Dublin 15 cannot get to the airport on PT without going to the city centre first.

I don't really think a Tram is an appropriate mode for getting to the airport being honest.

Muahahaha · 09-05-2018 5:09pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't really think a Tram is an appropriate mode for getting to the airport being honest.

Edinburgh seems to manage it fine. Obviously you would need specific carriages for luggage but that is hardly insurmountable.

I just think when it is built and it terminates at a P&R site within direct view of airplanes landing people will say oh, isnt it a bit short sighted for it not to connect to the airport. Again Im saying it should supplement Metrolink not replace it.

LuckyLloyd · 09-05-2018 5:15pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Edinburgh seems to manage it fine. Obviously you would need specific carriages for luggage but that is hardly insurmountable.

I just think when it is built and it terminates at a P&R site within direct view of airplanes landing people will say oh, isnt it a bit short sighted for it not to connect to the airport. Again Im saying it should supplement Metrolink not replace it.

The Edinburgh Tramline has been a bit of a disaster tbh!

Muahahaha · 09-05-2018 5:44pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Edinburgh Tramline has been a bit of a disaster tbh!

I used it two summers ago and it was perfectly fine for getting from the airport to Princes Street in 30 minutes. It connects Murrayfield too which is good for match days. I know it was a disaster in budget overruns but Im not sure how that is relevant now it is working and connecting the airport to the city centre

Sam Russell · 09-05-2018 10:12pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I used it two summers ago and it was perfectly fine for getting from the airport to Princes Street in 30 minutes. It connects Murrayfield too which is good for match days. I know it was a disaster in budget overruns but Im not sure how that is relevant now it is working and connecting the airport to the city centre

Because there will be no more tram lines in Edinburgh.

CatInABox · 09-11-2019 4:45pm

This seems to be progressing, with design works started. Emerging preferred route to be published next year, along with a public consultation. Great to see, even if it's probably just a sop so that Noel Rock can shout it out at the coming election.

https://twitter.com/NoelRock/status/1193124926556975105

This probably marks the end of the Bray extension as well, the lack of a Metro upgrade really put paid to that idea.

CatInABox · 09-11-2019 4:50pm

Also, Fingluas. Jesus Christ. I can't shake my head enough at that portmanteau.

Charlie19 · 09-11-2019 4:54pm

CatInABox wrote: »

This probably marks the end of the Bray extension as well, the lack of a Metro upgrade really put paid to that idea.

Bray hardly needs a Luas when the area is already accessible by Dart.

BDI · 09-11-2019 4:57pm

Seems like an election promise. Two years planning on making a plan. Now they will have a rough plan by next year.

It’s happening! Photo with a poster

Sam Russell · 09-11-2019 4:59pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Also, Fingluas. Jesus Christ. I can't shake my head enough at that portmanteau.

There used to be an old joke as to why the Dart did not go to Finglas. Something about Finglas Area something or other.

CatInABox · 09-11-2019 5:16pm

Charlie19 wrote: »

Bray hardly needs a Luas when the area is already accessible by Dart.

There's some good development land between the two, and would connect Bray to Sandyford, one of the big employment centres on the southside.

Peregrine · 09-11-2019 7:16pm

BDI wrote: »

Seems like an election promise. Two years planning on making a plan. Now they will have a rough plan by next year.

It’s happening! Photo with a poster

The planning for the Emerging Preferred Route is happening, it's in the GDA Transport Strategy. The strategy didn't envisage it happening this early but there's room for change in it. Staff were supposed to be moved to this project from MetroLink late this year. This is all in the media so far.

The Draft Implementation Strategy says Finglas, Bray, Lucan and Poolbeg will be fully designed by 2027. The National Development Plan allows for this. If the NTA decides to design Finglas first, that's not really an issue. It's probably the easiest of the 4.

But here's the rub. The NDP doesn't allow for construction. Not before 2027.

CatInABox · 09-11-2019 7:30pm

Peregrine wrote: »

The planning for the Emerging Preferred Route is happening, it's in the GDA Transport Strategy. The strategy didn't envisage it happening this early but there's room for change in it. Staff were supposed to be moved to this project from MetroLink late this year. This is all in the media so far.

The Draft Implementation Strategy says Finglas, Bray, Lucan and Poolbeg will be fully designed by 2027. The National Development Plan allows for this. If the NTA decides to design Finglas first, that's not really an issue. It's probably the easiest of the 4.

But here's the rub. The NDP doesn't allow for construction. Not before 2027.

Yes, it does seem like electioneering. What's involved in changing the NDP?

marno21 · 09-11-2019 7:41pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, it does seem like electioneering. What's involved in changing the NDP?

The NDP is to be reviewed in 2022. It could be put in then

A change of Government could change things too

CatInABox · 09-11-2019 7:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

The NDP is to be reviewed in 2022. It could be put in then

A change of Government could change things too

Nothing major then. Rock could run on a promise of getting it put into the NDP, and he'd get support from his superiors.

marno21 · 09-11-2019 8:06pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Nothing major then. Rock could run on a promise of getting it put into the NDP, and he'd get support from his superiors.

Absolutely. Depends on how the Metr/DART/BusConnects spending goes too

Peregrine · 09-11-2019 8:11pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, it does seem like electioneering. What's involved in changing the NDP?

Sort of. Rock's tweet is spot on (well, 'is happening' could be intentionally misleading). The planning is ongoing and the EPR should be published next year. That's substantial. It's been over 10 years since we got an EPR for a Luas extension.

He's been campaigning for that. What influence he actually had over making the NTA do Finglas first, we'll never know. Like I said, it's probably the easiest of the four and he could have just gotten lucky with the NTA wanting a good news story.

I would imagine he knows that he needs the NDP changed too. Although, I don't think he's forthcoming about that to voters. I think he just needs government buy in for that. It may be an easy project but it's still a good bit of money that will have to be found sooner than expected. It's not impossible. He has time though. The money for construction only has to be found in a few years. Without it, I presume they'll pause just before ABP stage. Same goes for all the Luas extensions.

LeinsterDub · 09-11-2019 8:24pm

marno21 wrote: »

Absolutely. Depends on how the Metr/DART/BusConnects spending goes too

More like it depends on how the road spending goes.

Pete_Cavan · 09-11-2019 9:24pm

The Finglas extension could be done with little or no extra rolling stock so that makes it the obvious one to go with first.

spacetweek · 09-11-2019 9:36pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

It would be crazy for it to terminate with a P&R outside the M50 when it is just a few kilometers short of the airport terminals. I think any Finglas Luas needs to terminate in the airport as a supplement to a future Metrolink, not as replacement. As it stands the large parts of Dublin 11 and Dublin 15 cannot get to the airport on PT without going to the city centre first.

You might be losing the run of yourself - the proposed terminus is a very long way from the terminals, and might even need to be tunnelled there.

Zebra3 · 09-11-2019 11:14pm

Very very curious on how the current end of line at Broombridge is to be extended.

ncounties · 09-11-2019 11:27pm

Any idea of what the rough route to Finglas would be? Would it actually even end up in the centre of Finglas?

PhoenixParker · 09-11-2019 11:27pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Very very curious on how the current end of line at Broombridge is to be extended.

Same. Between the rail line and the canal being immediately adjacent, plus Tolka valley/the Tolka itself a few hundred meters North, it’s an awkward project that’s for sure.

ohographite · 09-11-2019 11:50pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

There used to be an old joke as to why the Dart did not go to Finglas. Something about Finglas Area something or other.

This is getting off topic, but there's a Swiss railway system with that name:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Bus_and_Rail_Company_of_Ticino

Gumbo · 10-11-2019 12:52am

ncounties wrote: »

Any idea of what the rough route to Finglas would be? Would it actually even end up in the centre of Finglas?

The map from 10 years ago showed it leaving broombridge, making a sharp right and going over the Tolka valley fields.

It then stopped as they couldn’t decide if they wanted it running to the back of Tesco or up the dual carriage way.

There’s vast empty grass lands just off helenas road now, ever since the filled in the valley so in theory could be a stop, Park and ride etc

Dropped pin
Near St Helena's Rd, Northside, Dublin
https://goo.gl/maps/3H4FnbK61w8Fxh7m8

CatInABox · 10-11-2019 11:13am

ncounties wrote: »

Any idea of what the rough route to Finglas would be? Would it actually even end up in the centre of Finglas?

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1193166660259196928

This is based on what they looked at during the first go around. It'll change, but some elements won't. It'll turn north right at Broombridge station, go through the Dublin Industrial Estate there, then most likely an elevated bridge over the tolka valley. From there, it's anyone's guess.

Dublin Industrial Estate is in the process of being rezoned, so it's days as an Industrial Estate are numbered, I'd say it's going to be the first to be rezoned, what with the public transport connections it has.

Not sure how they'll deal with turning north/the height difference at Broombridge, elevate the entire station maybe? Move the station into the heart of the industrial estate?

ncounties · 10-11-2019 12:40pm

Thanks kceire/catinabox. I guess the best way of future proofing it would be to end it in such a way that it could be extended North Westward in the future, perhaps to the area around Huntswood - although currently heavy industry related, could provide development space in the future.

Luas Finglas

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