February Running Challenge

crisco10 · 02-02-2021 12:10am

py wrote: »

Some good options there. I've been trying to minimise repeats to avoid wasting time not ascending. Still tinkering with routes that fall within 5Km. Stocking Lane > Mount Venus > Masseys > Viewpoint gets about 350-360m ascent.Repeats on Kilmashogue lane is another option as there's some serious elevation on it.

The hard bit for me is starting point. I also agree always ascending is better but which is better a very minor gradient at start of run or doing a few repeats on steep part of ticknock for example at end of run.

Such a great planning challenge. And none of it will mean anything when legs and or lungs go kaput

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 10:05am

February Table

:cool:

* denotes bonus point to be added if challenge completed
?? need a time limit (10k or double 5k rounded to nearest minute)

Pos|Runner|Jan Pts|Feb Elv|Feb Pts|Time Limit|Total
1|Omeceron*|20|||45|20
1|BeginnerRunner*|20|||50|20
3|fletch*|19|||40|19
4|crisco10*|18|||37|18
4|Swashbuckler*|18|||37|18
4|Murph_D*|18|||42|18
4|healy1835*|18|||34|18
4|eyrie*|18|||50|18
9|Unknown Unthought|17|||??|17
10|shotgunmcos*|16|||40|16
11|jamule*|15|||36|15
12|Lambay Island*|14|||36|14
13|Dudda|13|||??|13
14|mister paul*|12|||42|12
15|Comic Book Guy*|11|||39|11
16|Kander*|10|||40|10
17|Wubble Wubble*|10|||45|10
18|Annie get your Run*|9|||58|9
19|skyblue46*|8|||54|8
20|En Passant*|7|||48|7
21|omicron*|6|||34|6
22|ReeReeG*|5|||45|5
23|dna_leri*|4|||35|4
24|Huzzah*|3|||58|3
25|Dubh Geannain*|2|||37|2
26|Zico10*|1|||35|1
27|Laineyfrecks*|1|||44|1
28|Pheredykes*|1|||58|1
29|Kurt_Godel*|1|||44|1
30|eposhea*||||47|
31|OOnegative*||||40|
32|edinrunna*||||37|
33|TFBubendorfer||||42|
34|AMK||||??|
35|jackc101||||49|
36|py||||??|

Comic Book Guy · 02-02-2021 12:41pm

Great idea M although I don't expect to be thanking you whenever I do this!
Already experiencing phantom dry retching at the thoughts of 39 mins of this.....

BeginnerRunner · 02-02-2021 1:03pm

When I originally submitted my time I was guessing off 5/10k paces. I've done a 3k TT recently that projects a do-able squeeze time of 24ish mins for 5k. I'm 100% confident I'd get around in 25 mins which would put me at 50, not the 55 I originally submitted.

Do you want to change it or leave it as is? Kinda feel like I'm taking the p!ss with an extra 5 minutes and a 200m high hill outside gaff

EDIT: should also clarify this has absolutely nothing whatsoever, at all, with me wanting it to be over 5 minutes sooner.... nope... not that

healy1835 · 02-02-2021 1:25pm

I'm presuming you'll be applying some kind of 'County Flatness' algorithm to the results here M?

Only seems fair...

Lambay island · 02-02-2021 1:41pm

healy1835 wrote: »

I'm presuming you'll be applying some kind of 'County Flatness' algorithm to the results here M? Only seems fair...

In that case Northside Dublin is flatter than Southside. More calls to split the Dubs now

dna_leri · 02-02-2021 1:52pm

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919447-Elevation-for-Your-Activity

How Elevation is calculated
It is important to remember that elevation data from all sources (barometric altimeters, GPS signals, and databases) is subject to error and that the elevation gain for an activity is an estimate. We are always working on improving our elevation data sets and algorithms.

there are many uncontrollable variables involved in calculating elevation gain. These variables can lead to exaggerated elevation totals, particularly if the activity takes place in an international, mountainous or coastal region.

Should be fun

BTW - 1 ft = 0.3048 m - are we metric or imperial?

OOnegative · 02-02-2021 2:00pm

Done a recce this morning, but the difference in elevation gain on Strava and Garmin is miles apart:

Strava - Elevation gain - 428ft
Garmin - Elevation gain- 218ft

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 2:13pm

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Do you want to change it or leave it as is? Kinda feel like I'm taking the p!ss with an extra 5 minutes and a 200m high hill outside gaff

EDIT: should also clarify this has absolutely nothing whatsoever, at all, with me wanting it to be over 5 minutes sooner.... nope... not that

Happy to revise estimates down. I will NOT add time.

healy1835 wrote: »

I'm presuming you'll be applying some kind of 'County Flatness' algorithm to the results here M? Only seems fair...

That was sort of the reason for the poll. Current 60%/40% in favour of allowing a continuous uphill climb.. if you happen to have one close by.

Warning!! I can apply a 5k radius to anyone's starting point and/or your usual starting point (which presumably is home). Rule#2 is as rigid as well, a rigid thing

dna_leri wrote: »

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216919447-Elevation-for-Your-Activity

Should be fun

BTW - 1 ft = 0.3048 m - are we metric or imperial?

Dear Jesus metric please for this one :eek: I will not be held accountable for shabby imperial conversions!

OOnegative wrote: »

Done a recce this morning, but the difference in elevation gain on Strava and Garmin is miles apart:

Strava - Elevation gain - 428ft
Garmin - Elevation gain- 218ft

Edit: Your total run for 1hr13 showed 130m elevation for me. Assuming most of your recce of that was within 40 mins, thats what I would have taken from Strava. I did zoom in and can make out you crossed 3-4 contour lines so that at least 40m of elevation for just those 2 lumps

Assuming the rest was failry flat, it would seem Garmin was accurate.

Ideally post a pic of your garmin for this one but I'll take Strava if no other validation. You take the chances when you run up a mountain or between buildings.

jamule · 02-02-2021 3:16pm

I had to go into the office in Sandyford so I done an attempt at lunch (it may become the 'one' if i dont have a good reason to go into the office for the rest of the month)

Was under pressure for time so could only go up for 34mins. 1st 5mins was flat and had another 80mts of uphill left to climb, I'm guessing 450m is possible.

Not much difference between the watch and Strava-

Strava- 365m
Garmin-362m

I tried a hill at home yesterday. 350m = +20m , up and down in 3 mins.= 240m.
There is not much chance of reps getting anywhere near going straight up.

TFBubendorfer · 02-02-2021 3:23pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Done a recce this morning, but the difference in elevation gain on Strava and Garmin is miles apart:

Strava - Elevation gain - 428ft
Garmin - Elevation gain- 218ft

1) if there's such a big difference, the lower number is almost certain to be the more accurate one.
2) In the "Overview" page in Strava on the web version (not the app), click on "Elevation (?)" (above "Elapsed Time"). It's is a link that opens a box with a "Correct Elevation" button. Try that.

Annie get your Run · 02-02-2021 3:50pm

I can only see Strava elevation in Feet, for me and everyone else. Anyone know how to change that? Garmin showing me metres.

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 4:39pm

jamule wrote: »

I had to go into the office in Sandyford so I done an attempt at lunch (it may become the 'one' if i dont have a good reason to go into the office for the rest of the month)

Was under pressure for time so could only go up for 34mins. 1st 5mins was flat and had another 80mts of uphill left to climb, I'm guessing 450m is possible.

Not much difference between the watch and Strava-

Strava- 365m
Garmin-362m

I tried a hill at home yesterday. 350m = +20m , up and down in 3 mins.= 240m.
There is not much chance of reps getting anywhere near going straight up.

Cool, and you were close enough to your 36min limit anyway. If you have a link I can put you up as the lead on the table

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 4:41pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I can only see Strava elevation in Feet, for me and everyone else. Anyone know how to change that? Garmin showing me metres.

On Strava/settings/display preferences. If you choose kilometres and kilograms you will see everything metric.

jamule · 02-02-2021 4:46pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Cool, and you were close enough to your 36min limit anyway. If you have a link I can put you up as the lead on the table

If you put me on the table can I do it again?

Annie get your Run · 02-02-2021 4:50pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

On Strava/settings/display preferences. If you choose kilometres and kilograms you will see everything metric.

Feic that! Now everything is in gobbledegook :pac:. Good to know I can switch and switch back. Thanks.

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 4:53pm

jamule wrote: »

If you put me on the table can I do it again?

Yup

Rule#4

ReeReeG · 02-02-2021 5:00pm

Annie get your Run wrote:

Feic that! Now everything is in gobbledegook . Good to know I can switch and switch back. Thanks.

Well I think the person viewing sees it in what way their own setting is so you wouldn't need to change if you just link it... Unless you're just curious of course!

jamule · 02-02-2021 5:01pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Yup Rule#4

https://www.strava.com/activities/4721847086

Some craic coming down on my arse in a river!

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 5:16pm

jamule wrote: »

https://www.strava.com/activities/4721847086

Some craic coming down on my arse in a river!

Is the activity private? I can't see it. Maybe you need to add me or I add you?

jamule · 02-02-2021 5:17pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Is the activity private? I can't see it. Maybe you need to add me or I add you?

try now

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 5:25pm

February Table

:cool: We have a leader!

* denotes bonus point to be added if challenge completed
?? need a time limit (10k or double 5k rounded to nearest minute)

Pos|Runner|Jan Pts|Feb Elv|Feb Pts|Time Limit|Total
2|jamule*|15|362m Climb|20|36|36
1|Murph_D*|18|183m Reps|19|42|38
3|Annie get your Run*|9|150m Reps|18|58|28
4|Omeceron*|20|||45|20
4|BeginnerRunner*|20|||50|20
6|fletch*|19|||40|19
7|crisco10*|18|||37|18
7|Swashbuckler*|18|||37|18
7|healy1835*|18|||34|18
7|eyrie*|18|||50|18
11|Unknown Unthought|17|||??|17
12|shotgunmcos*|16|||40|16
13|Lambay Island*|14|||36|14
14|Dudda|13|||??|13
15|mister paul*|12|||42|12
16|Comic Book Guy*|11|||39|11
17|Kander*|10|||40|10
17|Wubble Wubble*|10|||45|10
19|skyblue46*|8|||54|8
20|En Passant*|7|||48|7
21|omicron*|6|||34|6
22|ReeReeG*|5|||45|5
23|dna_leri*|4|||35|4
24|Huzzah*|3|||58|3
25|Dubh Geannain*|2|||37|2
26|Zico10*|1|||35|1
27|Laineyfrecks*|1|||44|1
28|Pheredykes*|1|||58|1
29|Kurt_Godel*|1|||44|1
30|eposhea*||||47|
31|OOnegative*||||40|
32|edinrunna*||||37|
33|TFBubendorfer||||42|
34|AMK||||??|
35|jackc101||||49|
36|py||||46|
37|racersedge||||44|

crisco10 · 02-02-2021 5:27pm

jamule wrote: »

https://www.strava.com/activities/4721847086

Some craic coming down on my arse in a river!

lol, thanks for the recce run! ;-)

Also, gonna bump my question about the buggy be allowed or not?

TFBubendorfer · 02-02-2021 5:52pm

crisco10 wrote: »

Also, gonna bump my question about the buggy be allowed or not?

Are you planning to ride it on the downward section?

Murph_D · 02-02-2021 5:57pm

Here's my first stab at it anyway. A paltry 183m.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/6208060471

Garmin is giving me the better elevation gain so that's what I'm declaring, assuming this is OK?

Tried the hill repeats option, on what what is possibly the steepest hill in the 5k radius. Thanks to skyblue for the tip.

With 42 mins to play with and about 3 mins per up and down, the final rep was 3 mins but gave me the same elevation gain as the 80 sec version despite continuing uphill (less severely) for the extra time. Could have cried when I saw that later. Was hoping for at least 225m from this, so very disappointing! It means I know I can beat this if I do it again, but doubt if it will be worth it.

Either way, an excellent workout, so well worth the participation. Great challenge!

Dubh Geannain · 02-02-2021 7:24pm

That's a great effort Murph and brave being the guinea pig.

If the discrepancies are glaring between the hill reps and the continuous hill runs, which looks quite possible going by the first two, would it be worth differentiating between the two types? Split the points between them or allocate two sets of points, whichever suits.

It'd probably put more hassle on you though Shotgun. Although the league table could very easily sort itself out once everyone's efforts are in.

racersedge · 02-02-2021 7:29pm

I missed out on the January challenge but with nothing on the horizon, this is definitely worth a crack, even if it kills me! I need to chuck a 10k time, don’t I? It’s been an age since I’ve done one hard, but when I did it was about 44mins.

Have a couple of inclines in the vicinity that could be worth it. A .75k drag into Killenard is the early favourite, as I used it for hill climbs last year training for a marathon. Might have a scoot about to see if there are any other options to kill myself on!

Annie get your Run · 02-02-2021 7:30pm

Also gave this a shot this evening on my 'easy' run. Thought it'd be better TBH and seeing Murph's hill repeats when I'm surrounded by bloody hills here is :rolleyes::rolleyes::pac:

strava is here but as with D's, garmin is giving me the better of the two will 150m.

Are we saying that hill repeats is the way to go for higher gain?

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 7:47pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Also gave this a shot this evening on my 'easy' run. Thought it'd be better TBH and seeing Murph's hill repeats when I'm surrounded by bloody hills here is :rolleyes::rolleyes::pac:

strava is here but as with D's, garmin is giving me the better of the two will 150m.

Are we saying that hill repeats is the way to go for higher gain?

Garmin link?

py · 02-02-2021 7:49pm

46 minutes for my 10Km time. Unsure if I'll get to do it just yet.

Annie get your Run · 02-02-2021 7:52pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Garmin link?

Garmin Link I have another route to try so I think I'll improve on that considerably..

OOnegative · 02-02-2021 7:52pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Done a recce this morning, but the difference in elevation gain on Strava and Garmin is miles apart:

Strava - Elevation gain - 428ft
Garmin - Elevation gain- 218ft

Ok so today’s recce is where it’s at for me, no possible higher points here in Den Haag. 40 mins of torture awaits on sand softer than TbL’s flaccid man bits!!!!

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 7:57pm

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

That's a great effort Murph and brave being the guinea pig.

If the discrepancies are glaring between the hill reps and the continuous hill runs, which looks quite possible going by the first two, would it be worth differentiating between the two types? Split the points between them or allocate two sets of points, whichever suits.

It'd probably put more hassle on you though Shotgun. Although the league table could very easily sort itself out once everyone's efforts are in.

That's a decent idea. Let's see how it goes. If the mountain runs are all way above hill reps and its as close as the poll I might consider options with the points. If there was no 5k lockdown I'd go for a mountain too.

shotgunmcos · 02-02-2021 8:02pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Garmin Link I have another route to try so I think I'll improve on that considerably..

Cant access that for some reason. I'm on phone or maybe we need to be linked dunno..

Annie get your Run · 02-02-2021 8:14pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Cant access that for some reason. I'm on phone or maybe we need to be linked dunno..

Attached

OOnegative · 02-02-2021 8:23pm

Is a cool down allowed after you have run your allotted minutes? Or is that seen as going over your time?

Murph_D · 02-02-2021 8:34pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Also gave this a shot this evening on my 'easy' run. Thought it'd be better TBH and seeing Murph's hill repeats when I'm surrounded by bloody hills here is :rolleyes::rolleyes::pac:

strava is here but as with D's, garmin is giving me the better of the two will 150m.

Are we saying that hill repeats is the way to go for higher gain?

I wouldn't say that, but it depends on the hill. For instance, I could have gotten the same elevation gain with a easy enough jog up Howth to the Summit Pub then add on a few repeats up to the Summit car park and back to the pub to max it out. You'll remember that last bit if you've ever done the Fat Turkey race. If all that was within 5k of course.

Murph_D · 02-02-2021 8:35pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Is a cool down allowed after you have run your allotted minutes? Or is that seen as going over your time?

Start and finish anywhere you like, B, so the cool down is separate. So is the warmup! At least you don't have to worry about the 5k from home limit, that's handy.

OOnegative · 02-02-2021 8:44pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Start and finish anywhere you like, B, so the cool down is separate. So is the warmup! At least you don't have to worry about the 5k from home limit, that's handy.

Cool, thanks D, I wasn’t to sure of that.

jackc101 · 03-02-2021 11:04am

First attempt in the hill in Tramore Valley Park this morning - I was definitely being kind to myself, with that hill and the overall pace, only gave it welly on the last 5 minutes.
Strategy wise I probably won't use the park again, you get too much of a breather between reps or else I need to push a lot harder going downhill. Might give the hill into Douglas or Frankfield a go next week.

Alarming difference between Garmin (50m FFS!) and Strava 160m

shotgunmcos · 03-02-2021 11:10am

jackc101 wrote: »

First attempt in the hill in Tramore Valley Park this morning - I was definitely being kind to myself, with that hill and the overall pace, only gave it welly on the last 5 minutes.
Strategy wise I probably won't use the park again, you get too much of a breather between reps or else I need to push a lot harder going downhill. Might give the hill into Douglas or Frankfield a go next week.

Alarming difference between Garmin (50m FFS!) and Strava 160m

Hey well done, seems the hill reps are starting to come in around 50% of a continuous climb. It would make sense in that you are spending 50% of your time descending. As I mentioned further up the thread I'll consider separating the points but I'll let it evolve and see how many have access to mountains.

I'll take the Strava reading but I can't access that Garmin link. I'd be interested to see the delta between Strava and Garmin. Chiefly because folk will understandably submit the higher of the 2 readings

shotgunmcos · 03-02-2021 11:14am

February Table Update #3

* denotes bonus point to be added if challenge completed
?? need a time limit (10k or double 5k rounded to nearest minute)

O/A Pos|Runner|Jan Pts|Feb Elv|Feb Pts|Time Limit|Total
1|crisco10*|18|439m Climb|19|37|38
2|Murph_D*|18|183m Reps|16|42|35
2|Lambay Island*|14|442m Climb|20|36|35
4|jamule*|15|362m Climb|18|36|34
5|Annie get your Run*|9|150m Reps|14|58|24
6|Omeceron*|20|||45|20
6|BeginnerRunner*|20|||50|20
8|fletch*|19|||40|19
9|eposhea*||307m Reps|17|47|18
9|Swashbuckler*|18|||37|18
9|healy1835*|18|||34|18
9|eyrie*|18|||50|18
13|Unknown Unthought|17|||??|17
14|shotgunmcos*|16|||40|16
15|jackc101||160m Reps|15|49|15
16|Dudda|13|||??|13
17|mister paul*|12|||42|12
18|Comic Book Guy*|11|||39|11
19|Kander*|10|||40|10
20|Wubble Wubble*|10|||45|10
21|skyblue46*|8|||54|8
22|En Passant*|7|||48|7
23|omicron*|6|||34|6
24|ReeReeG*|5|||45|5
25|dna_leri*|4|||35|4
26|Huzzah*|3|||58|3
27|Dubh Geannain*|2|||37|2
28|Zico10*|1|||35|1
28|Laineyfrecks*|1|||44|1
28|Pheredykes*|1|||58|1
28|Kurt_Godel*|1|||44|1
32|OOnegative*||||40|
32|edinrunna*||||37|
32|TFBubendorfer||||42|
32|AMK||||??|
32|py||||46|
32|racersedge||||44|

Lambay island · 03-02-2021 1:38pm

Thought I better do this before the poll flips.

Mountain on doorstep is quite handy here.

442 metres on strava v 435 Garmin

shotgunmcos · 03-02-2021 5:24pm

The Poll is closed!

It was perhaps a little vague but results are as follows

Finish on Top - Continuous climbs accepted - 57%
Finish at bottom - Need to do at least one rep - 43%

To be clear - You can start and finish wherever you like within your time limit

What I wanted to know was it fair that some have a mountain to climb, thus continuous uphill vs those who have to do repetitions of some sort

My summary understanding - please call me out of I am way off?
Continuous climb = 80-100% elevation (A mountain)
Hill Reps = 50-75% (10+ reps .....2 reps of 1 big hill)

Options
A) Keep same points system 20,19, 18..... 1, 1, 1

Split points: Climb 10,9,8....1,1,1 Hill Reps 10,9,8....1,1,1
C) Same points system for both Climbs & Hill Reps

Credit I think to Dubh Geannain for the idea and I tend to agree. Assuming the continuous climb options will take all the top spots or potentially all of the points, everyone who mashes themselves on hill reps (descending is probably as tough on the legs) will have little chance to compete overall this month.

So... my proposal is option C. Its win-win for all IMO. Just more work for me to manage the table.

crisco10 · 03-02-2021 5:54pm

Option C sounds great to me..very much seems to be a silo'ed challenge so far.

eyrie · 03-02-2021 5:58pm

Fair play shotgun - if you're willing to take on the extra work, option C does sound like a winner!

skyblue46 · 03-02-2021 9:23pm

Just looking for a little bit of clarification on Rule #2 please M. Is it the 5k from home rule or is it within 5k of a workplace, family member, essential shop etc that one is allowed visit for essential reasons and you then do a non essential run while you're there?

shotgunmcos · 03-02-2021 9:33pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just looking for a little bit of clarification on Rule #2 please M. Is it the 5k from home rule or is it within 5k of a workplace, family member, essential shop etc that one is allowed visit for essential reasons and you then do a non essential run while you're there?

Rule#2 based on government L5 advice

People are required to stay at home except for travel for work, education or other essential purposes, and will be permitted to take exercise within 5km of home.

I'll leave it up to each person to be responsible and comply with public health advice.

Now.. jamule, Murph_D, AGYR, Lambay Island... all good boys n gals yeah?

Murph_D · 03-02-2021 10:29pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Rule#2 based on government L5 advice

People are required to stay at home except for travel for work, education or other essential purposes, and will be permitted to take exercise within 5km of home.

I'll leave it up to each person to be responsible and comply with public health advice.

Now.. jamule, Murph_D, AGYR, Lambay Island... all good boys n gals yeah?

My hill is definitely within my 5k from home radius!

Lambay island · 03-02-2021 10:32pm

Murph_D wrote: »

My hill is definitely within my 5k from home radius!

As was mine

February Running Challenge

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