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I want to build an electric cafe racer how do I register it?

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  • 27-06-2020 4:59pm
    #1
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    Hey guys, new here I am looking to build an electric cafe racer and I am coming up short on the process of getting it registered? From the research ive done and through emails nsai I've been told I need a Certificate of conformity (coc) which I get from European while type approval, that's all well and good and wouldn't mind trying to go down that route but here's the catch when I go to look at test centers there's no testing for motorcycles. My question is how to I get a round this? And how would I get a title of I built a bike? I am only young so it would be ideal if I could build a new frame and new registration for insurance purposes as I am sure declaring large modifications would sky rocket insurance


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    #2
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    I'm probably wrong but..if you have a bike with papers..you build your motor etc into the original frame, then surely you only need an engineers report change of engine for the tax office....you've only just changed the engine right..???


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    #3
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Max Headroom wrote: »
    I'm probably wrong but..if you have a bike with papers..you build your motor etc into the original frame, then surely you only need an engineers report change of engine for the tax office....you've only just changed the engine right..???
    Cheers for the reply, I actually haven't done anything yet I don't want to jump into a money pit and have to jump blindly trough hoops, I've a I buy a frame I can just get an engineers report and change of engine? But then does that make the bike the same year as the frame? Or is there anyway to get new plates?


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    #4
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Might be worth contacting some of the specials/custom builders, many make their own frames etc.


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    #5
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    bladespin wrote: »
    Might be worth contacting some of the specials/custom builders, many make their own frames etc.

    That sounds like a good shout cheers man appreciate the help


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    #6
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    Cheers for the reply, I actually haven't done anything yet I don't want to jump into a money pit and have to jump blindly trough hoops, I've a I buy a frame I can just get an engineers report and change of engine? But then does that make the bike the same year as the frame? Or is there anyway to get new plates?

    Nope bike would be what ever the frame and vin correspond to on the log book as far as I'm aware.
    You could build a frame and get that registered i think but there's a ton of hoops to jump through.

    Speak to the tax office and bike builders before going down this road could be a huge pain and work out cheaper and easier to just buy an electric bike


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    #7
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Nope bike would be what ever the frame and vin correspond to on the log book as far as I'm aware.
    You could build a frame and get that registered i think but there's a ton of hoops to jump through.

    Speak to the tax office and bike builders before going down this road could be a huge pain and work out cheaper and easier to just buy an electric bike
    Thanks for the reply, probably would be cheaper but looking for a project


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    #8
    gn3dr
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭gn3dr


    As said the registration is with the chassis or frame - like a car. change of engine (or power source) is just a change of details. Main advantage would be reduced motor tax I assume (as well as the legal requirement)

    Might be worth contacting this guy. He has converted a few cars to electric
    https://www.youtube.com/user/pooey1911


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    #9
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    I was think along the same lines myself a while back.....I've built a few bikes with different engines,never an issue with the buyer...it's usually the main reason they buy the bike...:P

    There was a lad a few years back building one in a Bandit 600 in Dundrum area ....wonder if he ever finished it...


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    #10
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    gn3dr wrote: »
    As said the registration is with the chassis or frame - like a car. change of engine (or power source) is just a change of details. Main advantage would be reduced motor tax I assume (as well as the legal requirement)

    Might be worth contacting this guy. He has converted a few cars to electric

    cheers man appreciate it


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    #11
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Max Headroom wrote: »
    I was think along the same lines myself a while back.....I've built a few bikes with different engines,never an issue with the buyer...it's usually the main reason they buy the bike...:P

    There was a lad a few years back building one in a Bandit 600 in Dundrum area ....wonder if he ever finished it...

    he probably got further than me at least ahahha, any idea where to pick up a donor frame? and any ideas what frame ? ahah obviously cant get anything too old or i wont be able to get insured haha


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    #12
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    he probably got further than me at least ahahha, any idea where to pick up a donor frame? and any ideas what frame ? ahah obviously cant get anything too old or i wont be able to get insured haha

    Assuming you're old enough for an A licence you know you can insure old bikes with cn right?
    I got a quote on a 1976 bike with no other bike on the policy at 26. Could of got a vintage quote if I'd had another bike at the time. Didn't end up going for it but from what I remember was fairly cheap.

    For an engine swap you'd need an engineers report and to change via tax office not sure how insurance would deal with ya may be a no go.
    I do vaguely remember something about a full build from frame up. Takes a lot of time and skill to make a frame and not as easy as the aul occ boys for registering them ha.
    I'm not into cafe racers, I like sports bike, chopper and bobbers so couldn't tell you what bike to go from but old bmw seem to be popular for cafe racers along with honda. Grab one cheap, sell what ya don't want off it make back some of your money. Save time and hassle.
    Plus you could alter that frame as its already registered.


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    #13
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    Cheapest bikes to get are cruiser types (people generally cop on after buying one :P) ...look for one that has a knackered engine, it will be a waste of money buying a good one as you'll probably end up paying for motor you won't sell....have you a weight for the motor and batteries etc....?


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    #14
    goblin59
    Registered Users Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭goblin59


    where are you getting the motor and battery from?

    Would be an interesting project.


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    #15
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    With the hassle Irish insurance companies give when you fit after market accessories to a bike, exhaust can't increase power!, I'd be asking an insurance company to query their underwriter if they will insure a home made EB and what you need to do.


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    #16
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Del2005 wrote: »
    With the hassle Irish insurance companies give when you fit after market accessories to a bike, exhaust can't increase power!, I'd be asking an insurance company to query their underwriter if they will insure a home made EB and what you need to do.

    A slip on won't yield much results, but exhaust systems most certainly can and do increase horse power.
    Agree on insurance though underwriters would hear home made electric cafe racer and probably spend a solid five minutes laughing before saying no.
    The reason most choppers, bobbers and cafe racers are still down as the original bikes form.


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    #17
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Max Headroom wrote: »
    Cheapest bikes to get are cruiser types (people generally cop on after buying one :P) ...look for one that has a knackered engine, it will be a waste of money buying a good one as you'll probably end up paying for motor you won't sell....have you a weight for the motor and batteries etc....?

    havent worked it out yeat would all depend on what motor I end up buying and its requirments, i was thinking all in maybe 180kg? / 130


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    #18
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    goblin59 wrote: »
    where are you getting the motor and battery from?

    Would be an interesting project.

    trying to source a motor at the moment seeing where my best options might be, as far as batteries go i would be considering building it myself. I would order some 18650 cells from china (of course would have to charge and discharge each battery and test voltage to make sure they are reliable) i would then wire them in parallel groups to increase capacity and then in series to meet my voltage needs. and of course use a BMS (battery management system) to ensure safe charfing and discharging. Sorry for the long reply i doubt you were that interested but thats the rundown if your currious , who knows maybe i could get company to sponsor a build series for the motor ahahha i can only dream


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    #19
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Del2005 wrote: »
    With the hassle Irish insurance companies give when you fit after market accessories to a bike, exhaust can't increase power!, I'd be asking an insurance company to query their underwriter if they will insure a home made EB and what you need to do.

    thats a good shout ill give that a go


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    #20
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    A slip on won't yield much results, but exhaust systems most certainly can and do increase horse power.
    Agree on insurance though underwriters would hear home made electric cafe racer and probably spend a solid five minutes laughing before saying no.
    The reason most choppers, bobbers and cafe racers are still down as the original bikes form.

    interesting , so ive only really got one option that cold yield the best results aahah , i was thinking its a lot easier to get one off motorcycles passed in the uk they actually has a specific test for it MSVA (motorcycle single vehicle assesment) if i were to get the bike passed there and get english titles could i then "import" it from the uk to ireland ? would that possibly make it easier to insure?


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    #21
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    havent worked it out yeat would all depend on what motor I end up buying and its requirments, i was thinking all in maybe 180kg? / 130

    More like 220+ if its going to have any range really.

    As for registration, forget about building a frame and getting a CoC for it. Buy an existing bike you like and convert it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #22
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    galwaytt wrote: »
    More like 220+ if its going to have any range really.

    As for registration, forget about building a frame and getting a CoC for it. Buy an existing bike you like and convert it.

    that sounds more reasonable , to be honest with you i am only very new to the scene i am 18 and this would be a first bike , I know i am jumping into the deep end nut i am the kinda guy who loves the challenge and will see it trough. I am not familiar with motorcycle insurance , can i insure an old bike? do bike frames come with log book? and plates? does changing aesthetics count as a modification? Ie handle bars, mirrors, lights? would you know how or if ive to declare minor altercations to the frame? ie chopping the seat and adding that round racer seat? or adding mounts for batteries? thanks for all the help by the way


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    #23
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    interesting , so ive only really got one option that cold yield the best results aahah , i was thinking its a lot easier to get one off motorcycles passed in the uk they actually has a specific test for it MSVA (motorcycle single vehicle assesment) if i were to get the bike passed there and get english titles could i then "import" it from the uk to ireland ? would that possibly make it easier to insure?

    Ireland isn't custom vechicle friendly it never has been and going into the future it never will be.
    Most bike builders here alter production bikes because its too much of an effort and headache to register a one off.
    You could and probably would be easier, dealing with the vrt assessment would be painful but you'd have a registered bike.
    The UK have always been much more custom and modification friendly.


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    #24
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    that sounds more reasonable , to be honest with you i am only very new to the scene i am 18 and this would be a first bike , I know i am jumping into the deep end nut i am the kinda guy who loves the challenge and will see it trough. I am not familiar with motorcycle insurance , can i insure an old bike? do bike frames come with log book? and plates? does changing aesthetics count as a modification? Ie handle bars, mirrors, lights? would you know how or if ive to declare minor altercations to the frame? ie chopping the seat and adding that round racer seat? or adding mounts for batteries? thanks for all the help by the way

    At 18 you need to work on getting a licence first, and at A2 35kW rating your elec is going to be very limiting.

    I personally dont see any point in a restricted elec bike: defeats the purpose.

    Bikes are same as cars, paperwork wise. Your bike frame has a VIN number and thats what your tax book is.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #25
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Ireland isn't custom vechicle friendly it never has been and going into the future it never will be.
    Most bike builders here alter production bikes because its too much of an effort and headache to register a one off.
    You could and probably would be easier, dealing with the vrt assessment would be painful but you'd have a registered bike.
    The UK have always been much more custom and modification friendly.
    yeah i am starting to realize that very quickly , what do you mean by vrt assessment ? thats something i haven't come across, do you mean like as i said bring it to uk?


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    #26
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    that sounds more reasonable , to be honest with you i am only very new to the scene i am 18 and this would be a first bike , I know i am jumping into the deep end nut i am the kinda guy who loves the challenge and will see it trough. I am not familiar with motorcycle insurance , can i insure an old bike? do bike frames come with log book? and plates? does changing aesthetics count as a modification? Ie handle bars, mirrors, lights? would you know how or if ive to declare minor altercations to the frame? ie chopping the seat and adding that round racer seat? or adding mounts for batteries? thanks for all the help by the way

    At 18 it'll be a 100% no go for insurance, yes visual changes count. You're going to be on a restricted licence with a max power output of 35kw or under.
    On most bike frames you'll need to alter the frame or sub frame for a cafe racer seat not just the seat itself


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    #27
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    yeah i am starting to realize that very quickly , what do you mean by vrt assessment ? thats something i haven't come across, do you mean like as i said bring it to uk?

    to register a vechicle here from a foreign jurisdiction you have to vrt it.
    You'll be charged vrt based on the cc in this case it would be trickier due to no actual cc.
    You'll also be charged on a fabricated value for vat and duties as the bike as a custom will be under 6 months old and under 6k km. It has to be registered to be vrt'd no later than 7 days after entering the country and vrt'd no later than 30 days


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    #28
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    At 18 it'll be a 100% no go for insurance, yes visual changes count. You're going to be on a restricted licence with a max power output of 35kw or under.
    On most bike frames you'll need to alter the frame or sub frame for a cafe racer seat not just the seat itself
    right so sounding like the uk route is the only way , as in bringing it to the uk getting a title and importing it back? if i meet all the requirement for an A licence (l2e?) and i try to insure it ill have better luck ? as its not "modifed" even tho it is a home built bike ahhaah


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    #29
    jamie_m_ward
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭jamie_m_ward


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    to register a vechicle here from a foreign jurisdiction you have to vrt it.
    You'll be charged vrt based on the cc in this case it would be trickier due to no actual cc.
    You'll also be charged on a fabricated value for vat and duties as the bike as a custom will be under 6 months old and under 6k km. It has to be registered to be vrt'd no later than 7 days after entering the country and vrt'd no later than 30 days

    sorry ye on second read i got that ahha am too tired ahah nah i understand you from my research i think it would have relief on vrt up to 5600 or some thing like that so there would be no vrt up untill that value as it is electric but it still has to be presented and registered


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    #30
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    jamie_m_ward wrote: »
    right so sounding like the uk route is the only way , as in bringing it to the uk getting a title and importing it back? if i meet all the requirement for an A licence (l2e?) and i try to insure it ill have better luck ? as its not "modifed" even tho it is a home built bike ahhaah

    You don't meet the requirements for an A and you won't for several years even with progressive access, if you got your learners tomorrow you still need to do an ibt wait 6 months get the full have your licence 2 years and do the progression module 5.
    No first licence 0ncb they'll laugh away and refuse you a quote.
    No it will always be considered modified, one offs are not production bikes and will never be treated as such.


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    #31
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    https://urbanebikes.com/collections/electric-motorbikes/products/super-soco-tc

    You'd be better off considering something like that.
    Unless you've got a fairly hefty bank account at 18 your idea isn't really a runner to have as a first on road bike.
    Maybe by the time your 24 have a full A and good ncb and electric bikes have any sort of a presence in the Irish Market.
    One warning as a biker other motorist rarely see us, often our engine sounds wale them up and save us when reved. Ireland isn't a great place for electric bikes bad enough for normal bikes and no charging facilities.


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