Irish Rugby and Sevens

.ak · 15-05-2017 12:16am

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Some people seem dubious, or even outright dismissive, about the idea that playing 7s can aid your development as a 15s player. From your experience, you think it could help make provincial players better running rugby players in 15s?

Well, in my position I've only really got 3 years solid under my belt playing 15s, so I'm always still learning, and as a winger I don't get the opportunity to work on wide passes under pressure, it's generally popping up on an inside shoulder and feeding an offload, that's the extent of distribution and due to time constraints we don't get the opportunity to work on other bits.

I would say I learned loads on Saturday, especially passing, having to make a 20 meter pass under pressure whilst moving forward (or backwards!) otherwise it's essentially a turn over forces you to get the pass right. I had a few horror passes off my left but after a while I was putting in better passes than I have in yonks, because you force yourself to learn your own technique, and what works for you, rather than listening to someone telling you where your hand should be on the ball etc.

I also teaches you calmness under pressure, in 15s you are rarely under pressure with possession, because you have so much opportunities; kick, run, pass, crash etc. and almost all of them will result in a good percentage of your team retaining possession, whereas in 7s nearly everything you do will result in you losing position; if you carry you could get turned over easily if you're not strong in contact, if you kick you need to 100% gather it yourself, if you pass you have to make a 20m pass with pace on it or it'll be picked off, if you run you need to make sure you're running a line that gives your support the opportunity to get on your shoulder for an offload or switch or you'll die with the ball most likely.

So yeah, for me personally I learned a lot, and only felt I learned that from being put under pressure in a tournament situation rather than training or a training game.

Funny watching some of the AIL guys in our other team struggle, kept honey potting rucks, or looking for contact, or looking for short runners or cuts, whereas the J2 guys who play tag also were cleaning up. It's a very different game in practice, but there's definitely skills to be learned/gained from it.

On the other side however there's plenty of bad habbits you could pick up from it also. The best 7s players are often running lateral or backwards until space or opportunity opens up for them, if you do that in 15s you're essentially losing whatever territory and space your team fought for.

So I guess what you're asking is it beneficial for 15s at all level to play 7s, or could it further develop the game in Ireland as a whole? I'm not sure, the answer is probably no, when you look at other countries like USA who have serious talent at 7s but can't convert to 15s. Just because you're good at 7s doesn't mean you're good at 15s.

.ak · 15-05-2017 12:23am

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think 7s would be a great thing to introduce to schools. With a lot less players needed than a full 15s squad, less technical when it comes to rucks and scrums in particular so it allows kids to get an idea of playing 15s without having to worry a lot about the rules as such. Obviously it still needs a good bit of training when it comes to tackling, but I think it's probably a better step forward than tag to introducing them to rugby.

As for the idea of it making players better running rugby players, it definitely encourages them to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand. I suppose one of the arguments would be that it's completely different in a 15s game as a lot of that space is gone.

Yeah, it's a great introduction to rugby. The tackling is also much, much harder in 7s. In 15s the forwards go through a lot of work, but so much tackling can be done by soaking up pressure or defending as a unit.

In 7s it's basically 1v1 every time, and if it's not you're doing something wrong in defence and there's a gap elsewhere. Tackling 1v1 is hard when players are running all sorts of lines and at pace. I've said it before but I'd much rather tackle a 19st prop peeling off a set piece than tackle a gnarly 13 or 15 running from 20m back with venom, because it's either gonna hurt like hell or you'll be made look a fool because they've gone around you.

So yeah, if you started off playing 7s, you'll probably be a pretty handy tackler if you move to 15s.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

Not sure how much of this I agree with. I know safety is important, but a Kiwi friend of mine used to tell me that when they were kids they'd pick up a ball at lunch and run outside and play a game of full contact for their break in school, i.e; he doesn't remember the supervision and training required to learn how to tackle safely and all that. We're over protective at times and tbh tag for kids is probably just as dangerous as 7s for kids - I know half of our squad always pick up more injuries in the tag season than the 15s anyway!

The Lost Sheep · 15-05-2017 12:35am

.ak wrote: »

Not sure how much of this I agree with. I know safety is important, but a Kiwi friend of mine used to tell me that when they were kids they'd pick up a ball at lunch and run outside and play a game of full contact for their break in school, i.e; he doesn't remember the supervision and training required to learn how to tackle safely and all that. We're over protective at times and tbh tag for kids is probably just as dangerous as 7s for kids - I know half of our squad always pick up more injuries in the tag season than the 15s anyway!

Then why do all the development officers across the country use tag not 7s to introduce rugby to kids whove not played before??
If 7s was so much better than why is that not used in each and every school that a development officer attends???
Tag is not at all just as dangerous. Tag is used to introduce the sport to new kids. They wont have any experience of the game by and large. Or only a small percentage will.
Tag helps teach many good habits for playing contact rugby. There is good reason at the lower age that rugby is tag/non contact.

Squidgy Black · 15-05-2017 12:35am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

It depends on the age group. From personal experience, when you get to the end of primary school/early secondary, kids aren't really interested in tag. They also don't really see it as rugby.

I think if they were to introduce 7s into schools with a development style league into non-rugby schools it'd take off.

We had a college team that was in the SSI development league, could barely string together 22 players every week because it was a small enough college and didn't have a strong group of rugby players. But we entered the DCU 7s a couple of years in a row and it worked out perfectly. The GAA heads loved it as well as they weren't comfortable playing 15s.

The Lost Sheep · 15-05-2017 12:39am

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

It depends on the age group. From personal experience, when you get to the end of primary school/early secondary, kids aren't really interested in tag. They also don't really see it as rugby.

I think if they were to introduce 7s into schools with a development style league into non-rugby schools it'd take off.

We had a college team that was in the SSI development league, could barely string together 22 players every week because it was a small enough college and didn't have a strong group of rugby players. But we entered the DCU 7s a couple of years in a row and it worked out perfectly. The GAA heads loved it as well as they weren't comfortable playing 15s.

I dont think it will as you will just see the bigger/stronger kids take over and that doesnt help the rest.
Adult level is very different to youths and minis where tag is much much better. Tag also means you can play games mixed which helps with introducing girls to the sport. You cant do that with 7s.

7s needs such a level of fitness and high skill level that isnt required in tag as much

Squidgy Black · 15-05-2017 12:40am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Then why do all the development officers across the country use tag not 7s to introduce rugby to kids whove not played before??
If 7s was so much better than why is that not used in each and every school that a development officer attends???
Tag is not at all just as dangerous. Tag is used to introduce the sport to new kids. They wont have any experience of the game by and large. Or only a small percentage will.
Tag helps teach many good habits for playing contact rugby. There is good reason at the lower age that rugby is tag/non contact.

Tag is a lot easier for the schools in regards to liability, and also easier for the development officers as it involves very little training, other than how to pass the ball and run in a line.

kingofthekong · 15-05-2017 9:36am

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing.
And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

Squidgy Black · 15-05-2017 10:52am

kingofthekong wrote: »

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing.
And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

Couple of games were live streamed on the Dublin 7s Facebook page, you can watch them there.

It wasn't an IRFU tournament so they didn't really have anything to do with it.

The Lost Sheep · 15-05-2017 11:32am

kingofthekong wrote:

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing. And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

it wasn't an irfu event so they won't necessarily have footage to release and of course any footage will be edited quite a bit.
As for 20s coaches may not want to put any coverage up anywhere

FellasFellas · 16-05-2017 5:56pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

To be honest, I think tag is the biggest waste of time in a rugby development sense, thats my opinion. I played mini rugby and there was not a hint of tag involved when I was 5/6; it was contact all the way up. I don't see how pushing tag is a good idea when it basically has been firmly established as a social thing for Big 4 to play after work on a Wednesday. People who play tag and take it as seriously as the RWC final are literally the dregs at the bottom of the rugby union teacup. Forcing kids to play tag will lead them to be warier of contact and will feel uncomfortable when being forced to play it. It's hard enough keeping kids interested when you're coaching them as a group and half of them have played before and half of them haven't and you have to go back to square one and teach them how to tackle, can you imagine how difficult it would be to coach every single child how to tackle because all they've done is swipe at tags in their formative years? What exactly are 'the aspects of tag'? I find it very hard to agree that the aspects of tag rugby will make the Wilson's Hospital U13C team a better defensive unit than NZ circa 05.

The Lost Sheep · 16-05-2017 6:28pm

FellasFellas wrote: »

To be honest, I think tag is the biggest waste of time in a rugby development sense, thats my opinion. I played mini rugby and there was not a hint of tag involved when I was 5/6; it was contact all the way up. I don't see how pushing tag is a good idea when it basically has been firmly established as a social thing for Big 4 to play after work on a Wednesday. People who play tag and take it as seriously as the RWC final are literally the dregs at the bottom of the rugby union teacup. Forcing kids to play tag will lead them to be warier of contact and will feel uncomfortable when being forced to play it. It's hard enough keeping kids interested when you're coaching them as a group and half of them have played before and half of them haven't and you have to go back to square one and teach them how to tackle, can you imagine how difficult it would be to coach every single child how to tackle because all they've done is swipe at tags in their formative years? What exactly are 'the aspects of tag'? I find it very hard to agree that the aspects of tag rugby will make the Wilson's Hospital U13C team a better defensive unit than NZ circa 05.

I disagree and having been involved in using it in introducing the sport to kids in primary schools.
Bit in red is very harsh and playing tag doesnt make you wary of contact but is great at helping players avoid it in the best manner. Ideally people would be playing touch rugby(proper touch) but tag is next best.

RichieRich89 · 16-05-2017 9:09pm

Shaun Johnson, possibly the best stepper in the world in league or union, plays a lot of touch rugby

The Lost Sheep · 22-05-2017 10:19pm

The Ireland Women's 7s squad for Stage 5 of World Rugby Women's Sevens Series has been named by Director of Women's and 7s Rugby Anthony Eddy. The tournament takes place in Langford, Canada on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th of May.

The team finished in 9th place at the Kitakyushu 7s in Japan, and are in 9th place in the overall standings.
Ireland's Pool C opponents in Langford are Australia, Fiji and Spain.
Ashleigh Baxter (Cooke RFC/Ulster)
Chloe Blackmore (St.Mary's College RFC/Munster)
Claire Keohane (UL Bohemian RFC/Munster)
Stacey Flood (Railway Union RFC/Leinster)
Kim Flood (Railway Union RFC/Leinster)
Louise Galvin (UL Bohemian RFC/Munster)
Katie Heffernan (Mullingar RFC/Railway Union RFC (dual status) /Leinster)
Anna McGann (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Lucy Mulhall (Rathdrum RFC/Leinster) (captain)
Amee-Leigh Murphy-Crowe (Railway Union RFC/Munster)
Sene Naoupu (Aylesford Bulls)
Audrey O'Flynn (Ireland Sevens Programme)
Hannah Tyrrell (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster)

The Lost Sheep · 27-05-2017 5:29pm

A Mens side playing in Amsterdam this weekend.
Won 2 of their 3 pool games
Wolfhounds beat Dutch side Flashing Oemie 59-7, they lost 24-14 to the Chinese Shandong side and beat an international vii side, Dambusters, 66-0

Womens teams first game is in an hour or so

The Lost Sheep · 28-05-2017 11:11pm

Ladies team in pool stages last night beat Fiji 19-14, lost to Australia 21-0 and beat Spain 21-0 to qualify for Cup Quarter finals where they lost this evening to France 19-5. They then entered 5th to 8th playoffs losing to Russia 17-0 and will play England in 7th/8th playoff in an hours time

Mens team won the Plate Competition in the Amterdam 7s. They beat Latvian side Transact Pro 24-5, Alkmaar Hunters 45-0 and then beat MYPROTEIN Lemurs 7s 42-0 in the final

The Lost Sheep · 30-05-2017 5:01pm

Ladies beat England 14-10, first win over England in 7s, to finish 7th

Mens grand prix series starts next weekend
Ireland face Wales, Germany and Georgia in group stage

wp_rathead · 01-06-2017 11:52am

IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Squad (2017 Rugby Europe Sevens Grand Prix Series - Round 1, Oktyabr Stadium, Moscow, Russia, Saturday, June 3-Sunday, June 4):

Fionn Carr (Naas)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers)
Billy Dardis (UCD) (capt)
Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
Terry Kennedy (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Mick McGrath (Clontarf)
Harry McNulty (UCD)
Jimmy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
John O'Donnell (Lansdowne)
Mark Roche (Lansdowne)
Nick Timoney (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)

IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Fixtures -

Saturday, June 3 - Pool A:

Wales v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 10am local time/8am Irish time
Germany v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 1.07pm local time/11.07am Irish time
Georgia v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 3.52pm local time/1.52pm Irish time

brocbrocach · 01-06-2017 11:59am

wp_rathead wrote: »

IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Squad (2017 Rugby Europe Sevens Grand Prix Series - Round 1, Oktyabr Stadium, Moscow, Russia, Saturday, June 3-Sunday, June 4):

Fionn Carr (Naas)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers)
Billy Dardis (UCD) (capt)
Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
Terry Kennedy (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Mick McGrath (Clontarf)
Harry McNulty (UCD)
Jimmy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
John O'Donnell (Lansdowne)
Mark Roche (Lansdowne)
Nick Timoney (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)

IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Fixtures -

Saturday, June 3 - Pool A:

Wales v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 10am local time/8am Irish time
Germany v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 1.07pm local time/11.07am Irish time
Georgia v Ireland, Oktyabr Stadium, 3.52pm local time/1.52pm Irish time

Wow, that's scarily Leinster dominated. Has the sport got any presence outside of the capital or does the training require that the players get together very regularly, or what?

The Lost Sheep · 01-06-2017 12:06pm

brocbrocach wrote: »

Wow, that's scarily Leinster dominated. Has the sport got any presence outside of the capital or does the training require that the players get together very regularly, or what?

Every player in the squad is actually from Leinster bar Harry McNulty as Jordan Conroy is from Tullamore but moved to play higher level of rugby with Buccs and Timoney is a Dub
By presence what do you mean? Its the same everywhere. 7s isnt played bar end of season tournaments and very socially
Normally there has been a few exiles and a few Munster or Ulster players in squads but just not this time round

brocbrocach · 01-06-2017 12:12pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Every player in the squad is actually from Leinster bar Harry McNulty as Jordan Conroy is from Tullamore but moved to play higher level of rugby with Buccs and Timoney is a Dub
By presence what do you mean? Its the same everywhere. 7s isnt played bar end of season tournaments and very socially
Normally there has been a few exiles and a few Munster or Ulster players in squads but just not this time round

By presence what I mean is I thought there'd be an effort at organising tournaments, club selections etc. Surely there must be some basis for picking these particular players over other other AIL or academy lads.
It's surprising that hasn't happened especially in Ulster with Olympic funding presumably being made available

The Lost Sheep · 01-06-2017 12:17pm

brocbrocach wrote: »

By presence what I mean is I thought there'd be an effort at organising tournaments, club selections etc.

Effort by who?
There is plenty of 7s tournaments between end of April and Middle/end July
Kinsale 7s, Dublin 7s, 7s in the city(in athlone - Buccaneers), marble 7s Kilkenny, Midnight 7s Tullamore, Connemara 7s.
When you say club selections you mean?

brocbrocach · 01-06-2017 12:24pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Effort by who?
There is plenty of 7s tournaments between end of April and Middle/end July
Kinsale 7s, Dublin 7s, 7s in the city(in athlone - Buccaneers), marble 7s Kilkenny, Midnight 7s Tullamore, Connemara 7s.
When you say club selections you mean?

Is it not an international selection?

The Lost Sheep · 01-06-2017 12:36pm

brocbrocach wrote: »

Is it not an international selection?

Sorry what? First you said club selection now you are saying international
What are you trying to say?

brocbrocach · 01-06-2017 12:39pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Sorry what? First you said club selection now you are saying international
What are you trying to say?

You have a strange way of discussing things. It's all yours.

The Lost Sheep · 01-06-2017 12:46pm

brocbrocach wrote: »

By presence what I mean is I thought there'd be an effort at organising tournaments, club selections etc. Surely there must be some basis for picking these particular players over other other AIL or academy lads.
It's surprising that hasn't happened especially in Ulster with Olympic funding presumably being made available

Obviously there is basis for picking them....:rolleyes:
They want to play 7s, coaches see 7s suiting them...
What do you mean by effort at organising tournaments? Who do you want to do that?
There is, like i mentioned in previous posts, plenty of club 7s tournaments in the off season.
What do you mean by club selections??
Why do you just mention Ulster about Olympic funding? Why are they different to other provinces??

brocbrocach wrote: »

You have a strange way of discussing things. It's all yours.

You first were going on about international selection then club selection? What exactly did you mean by that?

The Lost Sheep · 03-06-2017 9:46am

Ireland beat Wales 26-5 in first game

The Lost Sheep · 03-06-2017 12:52pm

And lost to Germany in game 2. 28-21
Play Georgia next.

The Lost Sheep · 03-06-2017 5:53pm

Ireland beat Georgia 19-13. Finished 2nd in pool. Play Portugal in quarters tomorrow

Kiwi_knock · 04-06-2017 12:50pm

Into the final against Spain after beating Portugal (19-17) and Russia (28-21). Will finish the highest placed of the teams hoping to qualify for the World Series

Final is on at 15:08 (Irish time) and you can watch online at the Rugby Europe website http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/live-moscow-sevens-2017-round-1-sevens-grand-prix-series-2017

TheAnalyst_ · 04-06-2017 2:30pm

This is our best ever sevens performance if I'm not mistaken.

Kiwi_knock · 04-06-2017 3:20pm

7-0 up at half time, Fionn Carr with the try. Good performance so far, had to do a lot of defending at the start.

connemara man · 04-06-2017 3:24pm

12-0 up now great try started with a half break from their own in goal area

connemara man · 04-06-2017 3:30pm

And that's the final score

TheAnalyst_ · 04-06-2017 3:32pm

Great stuff. What does that mean now for the next step ie sevens series and olympics?

Kiwi_knock · 04-06-2017 3:34pm

Great performance and great result. Only watched this match and the Russia match but things look promising for the team over the next few legs of the series.

The Lost Sheep · 04-06-2017 4:03pm

TheAnalyst_ wrote:

Great stuff. What does that mean now for the next step ie sevens series and olympics?

This is round 1 of series. Need to win overall or just be one of the top 2 teams who are not part of the world series already and if we are we enter qualifying tournament for the world series which is played in Hong Kong on HK 7s weekend.
We can also qualify for next years 7s world cup if we finish in top 2 of sides not already qualified for that

Round 2 is in Poland next weekend. Then week off then next round is in Clermont Ferrond and then a few weeks off before the final round which wll be played in Exeter

RichieRich89 · 04-06-2017 8:35pm

Who was the tall guy with the ponytail wearing 10 in the final? Nick Timoney?

stellenbosch · 04-06-2017 11:39pm

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Who was the tall guy with the ponytail wearing 10 in the final? Nick Timoney?

McNulty

The Lost Sheep · 10-06-2017 3:40pm

Ireland beat Poland 28-10 and Germany 26-7. Last pool game is against Portugal.

connemara man · 11-06-2017 9:11am

12-0 up at halftime vs England today

connemara man · 11-06-2017 9:21am

19-5 full-time

TheAnalyst_ · 11-06-2017 11:22am

What level are the big teams like England, Scotland etc? Is it their second string guys?

Squidgy Black · 11-06-2017 11:27am

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

What level are the big teams like England, Scotland etc? Is it their second string guys?

Wouldn't be their first team selection but England have a Sevens academy and all the players would be playing 7s professionally on a regular basis and a few players from clubs also.

connemara man · 11-06-2017 11:28am

Ireland's semifinal Vs Rusia will be at half 12 sorry

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pdkaa_rugby-europe-sevens-grand-prix-series-2017-lodz-round-2_sport

connemara man · 11-06-2017 1:42pm

Ireland lost the semi final to a last minute try.

Just wondering and this has nothing to do with the match itself but is 7s reffed differently?

The Lost Sheep · 11-06-2017 1:56pm

connemara man wrote: »

Ireland lost the semi final to a last minute try.

Just wondering and this has nothing to do with the match itself but is 7s reffed differently?

Reffed differently how?
There is variations in the laws

Great to be in and around the finals at this level.

The Lost Sheep · 11-06-2017 1:58pm

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

What level are the big teams like England, Scotland etc? Is it their second string guys?

England, Wales, France have second string/academy squads

connemara man · 11-06-2017 2:01pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Reffed differently how?
There is variations in the laws

Great to be in and around the finals at this level.

The breakdown in general. Just wondering. It's not something I've looked into really

connachta · 11-06-2017 2:21pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

connemara man wrote: »

Ireland lost the semi final to a last minute try.

Just wondering and this has nothing to do with the match itself but is 7s reffed differently?

Reffed differently how?
There is variations in the laws

Great to be in and around the finals at this level.

3:53 for the 3rd-place game against Wales

connemara man · 11-06-2017 4:12pm

14-5 to Ireland halftime

Irish Rugby and Sevens

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