Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

09-07-2020 10:05pm

Clegg wrote: »

Just doesn't look right.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1281303615383244801?s=19

Delighted to see him back with the provinces. He's an honest and tough player, great tackler and a good kicker. He'll fit right in up in Ulster and I'm keen to see how he goes under the coaching ticket. MacFarland took a lot of players who had spent seasons looking pretty ordinary and turned them into a serious outfit. Madigan was a decent player for Joe. Since then he's been coached by MOC and Brunel who wouldn't fill you with confidence at all. Pat Lam should have been a good fit but for whatever reason he fell out of favour. Maybe he just wasn't good enough, maybe it was attitude or maybe Lam had a serious talent on his hands and chose to prioritise the younger player.

Regardless, 2013/14 Ian Madigan would bring a lot of value to Ulster and hopefully that's the player who shows up.

The Lost Sheep · 09-07-2020 10:23pm

Stainalert wrote: »

Will ignore your cut at me and will try stick to a factual conversation.

There is no actual hard evidence that sevens rugby produces better 15s players. The main merit sevens rugby has for Ireland is that in a country with only 4 professional outfits young players have another outlet that allows them to pursue rugby professionally.

The AIL has actually produced far more club players over the last few seasons than the sevens program. The AIL has also actually produced more professional sevens players than the professional game itself.

Only thing I agree with you is that this discussion is on the wrong thread

considering number of players who've played 7s in New Zealand as well as 15s to high level as well as plenty other counties I think the value of 7s is very good.
Can you really look at long term effect of what 7s has done for the pro game now considering we are only playing 7s for 5 years.

theVersatile · 09-07-2020 11:15pm

Its a statistical fact that Sevens players have more exposure to performing skills in game on a per minute basis than in 15s, and Academy players participating in 7s is a great way to develop their skills due to the increased exposure to executing these skills. Obviously, a common sense approach should be taken in that the likes of props and heavier second rows/blindsides should probably stay away from it in favour of positional work ons, but there's no reason why numbers 7 to 15 in the four Academies shouldn't take this opportunity to really work on their core skills - especially given a dearth of other meaningful gametime which may come this season as a result of COVID.

09-07-2020 11:26pm

theVersatile wrote: »

Its a statistical fact that Sevens players have more exposure to performing skills in game on a per minute basis than in 15s, and Academy players participating in 7s is a great way to develop their skills due to the increased exposure to executing these skills. Obviously, a common sense approach should be taken in that the likes of props and heavier second rows/blindsides should probably stay away from it in favour of positional work ons, but there's no reason why numbers 7 to 15 in the four Academies shouldn't take this opportunity to really work on their core skills - especially given a dearth of other meaningful gametime which may come this season as a result of COVID.

I'm not disputing anything you have written, but is the standard in 7's comparable to professional 15 man rugby?

Would you improve more playing 7s regularly or would you get greater return on investment competing week in week out in a higher intensity environment?

I know some top quality players have straddled both disciplines but I question how much 7's has contributed to the top flight of rugby union. My perception is that rugby league produces more stars than 7's but I've only my own perception and no data to back that up.

Stainalert · 09-07-2020 11:46pm

theVersatile wrote: »

Its a statistical fact that Sevens players have more exposure to performing skills in game on a per minute basis than in 15s, and Academy players participating in 7s is a great way to develop their skills due to the increased exposure to executing these skills. Obviously, a common sense approach should be taken in that the likes of props and heavier second rows/blindsides should probably stay away from it in favour of positional work ons, but there's no reason why numbers 7 to 15 in the four Academies shouldn't take this opportunity to really work on their core skills - especially given a dearth of other meaningful gametime which may come this season as a result of COVID.

Yes sevens develops skills but in a far less pressurised environment given that there are far fewer players actually on the pitch. I would be far more interested in an environment that challenges players to perform these skills under greater pressure. That sort of environment would produce better 15s players.

The Lost Sheep · 10-07-2020 12:24am

Stainalert wrote: »

Yes sevens develops skills but in a far less pressurised environment given that there are far fewer players actually on the pitch. I would be far more interested in an environment that challenges players to perform these skills under greater pressure. That sort of environment would produce better 15s players.

7s at the elite level is under plenty of pressure and can and will help in the production of players for the 15s game in time. Just like it has with the remainder of the core nations on the 7s series

Yeah_Right · 10-07-2020 10:37am

I am always amazed when I hear people say that 7s doesn't provide any benefit to 15s. I think it comes from the fact that a lot of rugby fans don't follow the 7s circuit and don't realise how many players who go on to great 15s careers actually started with a season or 2 on the 7s tour. Obviously my view is slanted because I follow the NZ teams and have seen the crossover for years. From the likes of Zinzan Brooke in the 80s to the Ioane brothers and Caleb Clarke now.

arsebiscuits1 · 10-07-2020 11:01am

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I am always amazed when I hear people say that 7s doesn't provide any benefit to 15s. I think it comes from the fact that a lot of rugby fans don't follow the 7s circuit and don't realise how many players who go on to great 15s careers actually started with a season or 2 on the 7s tour. Obviously my view is slanted because I follow the NZ teams and have seen the crossover for years. From the likes of Zinzan Brooke in the 80s to the Ioane brothers and Caleb Clarke now.

There is some extremely opinionated keyboard warriors with no concept of the details of high performance that see the finished product of sevens and 15s and assume that there can be no benefit without given a single thought to the benefits that can be honed behind the scenes.

At the most basic level, sevens players are required to be able to pass left and right 10-15 meters (an ability that is still strangely lacking among many professionals)

Not only this, they need to be able to make these decision under extreme fatigue due to the pace of sevens.

One on one tackling also is developed. In the shortened game you can't afford to burn more than one player at a time per play. 2 man tackling/ tackler assist is not focused on. Tackle technique has to be sound.

Ultimately it comes down to the individual player. Sevens wont benefit everyone for 15s. If it did, everyone would play it. But to say sevens has no potential impact for developing 15s players is far too absolute a statement given how broad a term "development" actually is.

I think there is merit to players playing AIL.

But I also don't think the likes of Jimmy O'Brien or Robert Baloucoune or Shane Daly would be where they are without their sevens experience

Yeah_Right · 10-07-2020 11:13am

From what I have read and heard about the 7s circuit (from NZ players) is that it is not just the onfield skills that get developed. The young guys get brought into a professional environment, spend a lot of time away from home, get taught how to manage their diets, fitness, recovery, down time etc. And the whole time they are travelling to some very diverse countries. All this puts them in a good place after a year or 2 to move into 15s.

Scottmactom · 10-07-2020 11:13am

JOB and Daly were very talented u20's, they'd still be squad players at their provinces without 7's.

Baloucoune on the otherhand.

Some Yoke · 10-07-2020 11:26am

Noel Reid is no longer a Leicester player along with 4 others after contract renegotiation due to covid

Richie_Rich89 · 10-07-2020 1:25pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

The Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) has finalised plans to facilitate the return of academy players following the return of senior squads in June.

All four provincial academy squads will return to their designated High Performance Centre on 20 July and follow the established COVID protocols to safeguard their return to rugby.

Academy players will complete an eight week pre-season before joining senior squad members to compete in a series of A fixtures in late September and early October.

There will also be three interprovincial 7s tournaments during this period which will see academy selections compete with the Ireland 7s squad.

Provincial Representative Season Outline

12 September 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 1

19 September 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 1

26 September 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 2

3 October 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 2

10 October 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 3

17 October 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 3

12 December 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 4

16 January 2021

Provincial A Fixtures Round 5

3 April 2021

Provincial A Fixtures Round 6

Potential Leinster A side?

1. Michael Milne
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Thomas Clarkson
4. Jack Dunne
5. Charlie Ryan
6. Alex Soroka
7. Scott Penny
8. Sean O'Brien
9. Hugh O'Sullivan
10. David Hawkshaw
11. Andrew Smith
12. Tommy O'Brien
13. Liam Turner
14. Aaron O'Sullivan
15. Michael Silvester

16. John McKee
17. Marcus Hanan
18. Ryan McMahon
19. Brian Deeny
20. Martin Moloney
21. Paddy Patterson
22. Tim Corkery
23. Rob Russell

crisco10 · 10-07-2020 1:34pm

Some Yoke wrote: »

Noel Reid is no longer a Leicester player along with 4 others after contract renegotiation due to covid

wonder will he return to Leinster on short term deal to help cover a busy year?

Buer · 10-07-2020 1:46pm

crisco10 wrote: »

wonder will he return to Leinster on short term deal to help cover a busy year?

Centre isn't really an area we need more cover in. Him walking away from Leicester is a ballsy move in the current climate unless he was unhappy there anyway or has something already lined up elsewhere.

Squidgy Black · 10-07-2020 1:48pm

crisco10 wrote: »

wonder will he return to Leinster on short term deal to help cover a busy year?

Wouldn't be a bad option but I doubt it. Frawley is pretty much a younger option who can cover similar positions (10/12). And then you've the likes of Conor O'Brien who would be looking at this season to get into the mix for the 12 shirt when Henshaw isn't available.

errlloyd · 10-07-2020 2:03pm

Buer wrote: »

Centre isn't really an area we need more cover in. Him walking away from Leicester is a ballsy move in the current climate unless he was unhappy there anyway or has something already lined up elsewhere.

If he knew Eastmonde and Tualagi were the same it must have been tempting to stay.

FrannoFan · 10-07-2020 8:11pm

crisco10 wrote: »

wonder will he return to Leinster on short term deal to help cover a busy year?

Lancaster in an interview said if it's 50:50 between two players they go for the younger guy. Reid turning 30. The bits and pieces of game time available probably needed for academy lads/recent graduates

10-07-2020 9:14pm

I don't think we'll make any further signings for the time being and I'm not sure we need to. Rugby world has had to tighten it's belt and a setup like Leinster is well insulted from covid fallout in a way that other clubs aren't. I expect us to have a good year provided games go ahead.

Have also heard on the grapevine that the squad have all come back in very good shape and the time off has been used well across the board.

Rigor Mortis · 12-07-2020 9:15am

Apparently Noel is off to newly promoted to ProD2 SC Albi. A very old club near Toulouse.

sydthebeat · 12-07-2020 9:49am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Apparently Noel is off to newly promoted to ProD2 SC Albi. A very old club near Toulouse.

?? You mean noel Reid?

Is he not off to Agen?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Mathieu_Vich/status/1281657985496997888

Rigor Mortis · 12-07-2020 5:01pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

?? You mean noel Reid?

Is he not off to Agen?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Mathieu_Vich/status/1281657985496997888

Rugby Paper had a different version today. I hope Agen is correct

Former Former · 12-07-2020 5:51pm

Albi are in Federale 1 so I hope for his sake it's Agen

Rigor Mortis · 12-07-2020 10:44pm

Former Former wrote: »

Albi are in Federale 1 so I hope for his sake it's Agen

They should be promoted

Scottmactom · 13-07-2020 12:34pm

There is a standing joke in Irish rugby that one of the most eagerly awaited news items in a season is the confirmation of Leinster’s first year academy intake, especially amongst the other provinces.

That announcement will come early this week and in Limerick, Cork, Galway and Belfast there’ll be more than a casual interest, both in the players nominated and several that don’t make it for a variety of reasons but one of which won’t be a lack of talent.

from the IT today..

typhoony · 13-07-2020 4:42pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

from the IT today..

saw that, i'd be shocked if Andrew Smith is not included.

Scottmactom · 14-07-2020 9:25am

typhoony wrote: »

saw that, i'd be shocked if Andrew Smith is not included.

He is a certainty..possible Leinster academy class:

Joe McCarthy(Lock/Blackrock/DUFC)
Alex Soroka(Backrow/Bevledere/Clontarf)
Sean O'Brien(Backrow/Blackrock/UCD)
Andrew Smith(Wing/St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(Wing/Blackrock/UCD)

Rigor Mortis · 14-07-2020 9:32am

Would it not make sense to take a larger intake, given it is unlikely that we will be making many significant signings in the next few years.

salmocab · 14-07-2020 9:37am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Would it not make sense to take a larger intake, given it is unlikely that we will be making many significant signings in the next few years.

Leinster academy players seem to step up regularly to first team more so than elsewhere not sure putting more in one end would result in more out the other as they are by and large putting in the best prospects, barring an odd player moving elsewhere I’d say Leinster aren’t missing out on too many lads who go on to be good enough for Leinster

Scottmactom · 14-07-2020 9:38am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Would it not make sense to take a larger intake, given it is unlikely that we will be making many significant signings in the next few years.

They could.. it's one of the more unclear years when it comes to academy intakes.. thanks to the covid situation.. They usually announce an official intake in the summer and in reality at least two more players join the academy after preseason but aren't usually announced officially.

Scottmactom · 14-07-2020 10:00am

Leinster Academy to be announced today, Noel Mc to give interview about academy at 11.30am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4k_D0Z90z0

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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