Big open air Busk (busking bye-laws)

ben.schlomo · 29-05-2018 12:08pm

kevin65 wrote: »

thesandeman wrote: »

How did it go?

Music amplification not great but band were good.

The irony.

inisboffin · 29-05-2018 6:03pm

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The irony.

The arch is a big sound swallower, that's why you need to be louder there.

The majority of the buskers had small (under 50w) battery amps (the ones the Council had originally allowed in the bye laws, but then changed last minute to go with full ban). They can go loud but distort at full volume. The bigger amps would allow same max volume but clearer. I agree the music was great but I personally would have liked it a bit louder. They were ploughing through the batteries.

The irony is right!

bodhrandude · 15-07-2018 8:07pm

Well we brought a wee bit of trad to the street last Friday, myself and Kyle that is. Taken by a listener around the restaurant area.

inisboffin · 16-07-2018 8:44am

There was a great busk-a-thon the other day in aid of the Simon Community. Well done everyone!

challengemaster · 17-07-2018 4:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that’s a load of sh*te. You’d get told by the guards if a neighbour made a complaint.

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

No that's not true. The homeowners would ask you to stop and if you refused the Guards would be called out.

Noise complaints are civil matters, Guards won't touch them. So your method of dealing with a noise complaint is through the district court, and probably waste about a year of your time.

Have fun with it.

motley · 10-09-2019 12:28pm

Surprised it has not been mentioned on here yet but the busking bye-laws were passed by the city council last night. I am not surprised that they passed and the people who voted for the laws but I think it reflects badly on a city that is European City of Culture in 2020.

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/0909/1074864-busking-bye-laws/

biko · 10-09-2019 1:36pm

Snips from the article

Galway City Council has voted in favour of new bye laws to limit busking and street performance.

Councillors voted by 12 to 6 in favour of the measures, which will come into effect at the beginning of next year.

The rules will ban the use of amplification or backing tracks by buskers before 6pm and also restrict so-called "circle acts", that attract large crowds of bystanders.
The use of drum kits will be banned at all times.

xckjoo · 10-09-2019 1:39pm

motley wrote: »

Surprised it has not been mentioned on here yet but the busking bye-laws were passed by the city council last night. I am not surprised that they passed and the people who voted for the laws but I think it reflects badly on a city that is European City of Culture in 2020.

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/0909/1074864-busking-bye-laws/

I'm going to be honest here and admit that I don't see the big issue with this by-law. I've seen enough buskers playing badly while amped to the max and blocking half the street. The only real issue I saw someone mention here is the people who dance. Not sure how they can work around it beyond partnering up with someone on an instrument.

Laviski · 10-09-2019 1:58pm

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm going to be honest here and admit that I don't see the big issue with this by-law. I've seen enough buskers playing badly while amped to the max and blocking half the street. The only real issue I saw someone mention here is the people who dance. Not sure how they can work around it beyond partnering up with someone on an instrument.

would aggree.

But this is a result of a minority ruining it for the majority that have been considerate to the shop owners. Shop owners pay high rent and rates to be there and its not fair that those block and play excessively loud music - people just move on rather quicker.

Fitz* · 10-09-2019 2:54pm

Is this basically a new rule to stop someoner butchering classics all day every day?! :pac:

I agree with reducing the 'circle acts' to be fair, but let the musicians/singers etc play would be my stance, at an acceptable level of course.

ben.schlomo · 10-09-2019 3:50pm

No issue with them banning amps which are just a nuisance. And the circle acts are a pain in the hole too if you're trying to walk up Shop St with a bike or buggy.

inisboffin · 10-09-2019 4:37pm

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm going to be honest here and admit that I don't see the big issue with this by-law. I've seen enough buskers playing badly while amped to the max and blocking half the street. The only real issue I saw someone mention here is the people who dance. Not sure how they can work around it beyond partnering up with someone on an instrument.

The amp stuff is just one part of the bye law. Under these new laws, street theatre is essentially banned (Pat Bracken's act would be illegal), as nobody is allowed to draw a crowd, if they do they have to stop. Spanish Guitars no amp, Dancers no backing track, any kind of puppet show, gone.

Conversely, they don't give a ****e about noise after 6pm and seem to not care about residents noise wise, only businesses (open until 6). You can have huge amplification in the evening.

Drum kits are banned, but you can lash away on bongos or djembes.
Fancy a bagpipe or 10? No problem, completely legal, as is 10 trumpets in the daytime (unless 3 people walking together stop to listen). Single whistle player? Don't play too well because if more than 2 or 3 stop it's a crowd apparently.

Fancy a rebel song? If Mr and Mrs Smith from Basingstoke think it's too republican they can report it, and the 'authorities' have to ask you to stop as it's causing offence. Anything causing offence to anyone and you can be stopped.

Children's Choir or charity sing? Well every child needs a guardian with them. Every child under 16. What? Dad has to work, can Mam do it? Nope, has to be the named guardian.

This is only part of it. These laws are archaic and ill thought out.
Rejection of any compromise, and not working with the buskers. Don't think its over though!

Mrs OBumble · 10-09-2019 5:28pm

I reckon we need to drown the council in complaints about what we find offensive.

Rebel, pacifist, pro-plant, English language, tunes from Cork, pop song, classical ... shure everything's offensive to someone.

Laviski · 10-09-2019 6:44pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I reckon we need to drown the council in complaints about what we find offensive.

Rebel, pacifist, pro-plant, English language, tunes from Cork, pop song, classical ... shure everything's offensive to someone.

council have bigger problems to solve but bang away, happy will be implemented as now should be able to move up and down the street as i should have been.

Homelander · 10-09-2019 7:44pm

I don't think I'm outraged. I understand that it's a minority have ruined it for a majority, but certain unnamed people were tantamount to aural rape, projecting utter lack of talent far and wide thanks to their amp, and making conditions hell for nearby businesses. I understand that the laws aren't perfect and are full of flaws too. Also these new laws aren't going to be policed by Judge Dredd, so there's an amount of discretion involved obviously. No-one's going to be arrested for drawing a small crowd. This whole thing reminds me of the proposed laws to limit recreational ball games/skateboarding/whatever in public areas, it was aimed at stopping people interfering with/being a nusiance to the general public but people acted like the ERU were going to turn up and absolutely riddle people who had the audacity to play with their child in a public space.

ChewyLouie · 11-09-2019 10:12am

Homelander wrote: »

Also these new laws aren't going to be policed by Judge Dredd, so there's an amount of discretion involved obviously. No-one's going to be arrested for drawing a small crowd.

We shouldn't be introducing new laws with the assumption that they're not going to be policed. If they're only palatable on that assumption then they're likely to be bad laws.

Judge them on how fair they are if followed by the letter of the law, because at some stage some Garda (or well connected business person) is going to have a personal issue with an individual or group and use these laws as a mechanism to slap them with.

Music, random public gatherings to enjoy the arts, busking, etc... isn't that what Galway City's all about??

xckjoo · 11-09-2019 11:07am

inisboffin wrote: »

The amp stuff is just one part of the bye law. Under these new laws, street theatre is essentially banned (Pat Bracken's act would be illegal), as nobody is allowed to draw a crowd, if they do they have to stop. Spanish Guitars no amp, Dancers no backing track, any kind of puppet show, gone.

Conversely, they don't give a ****e about noise after 6pm and seem to not care about residents noise wise, only businesses (open until 6). You can have huge amplification in the evening.

Drum kits are banned, but you can lash away on bongos or djembes.
Fancy a bagpipe or 10? No problem, completely legal, as is 10 trumpets in the daytime (unless 3 people walking together stop to listen). Single whistle player? Don't play too well because if more than 2 or 3 stop it's a crowd apparently.

Fancy a rebel song? If Mr and Mrs Smith from Basingstoke think it's too republican they can report it, and the 'authorities' have to ask you to stop as it's causing offence. Anything causing offence to anyone and you can be stopped.

Children's Choir or charity sing? Well every child needs a guardian with them. Every child under 16. What? Dad has to work, can Mam do it? Nope, has to be the named guardian.

This is only part of it. These laws are archaic and ill thought out.
Rejection of any compromise, and not working with the buskers. Don't think its over though!

Cheers. Hadn't heard about the rest of it. Is there a link to it because (no offence) some of those sound like hyperbole.
I'll be honest again though and say that I agree with the pre-6/post-6 divide. I avoid Shop Street during the day because it's so choked with groups blocking up the street. I'm not sure what the better fix would be though beyond having a large urban centre which would allow for a lower density of busking "groups". But that's a whole other can of worms to open

inisboffin · 11-09-2019 11:09am

ChewyLouie wrote: »

We shouldn't be introducing new laws with the assumption that they're not going to be policed. If they're only palatable on that assumption then they're likely to be bad laws.

Judge them on how fair they are if followed by the letter of the law, because at some stage some Garda (or well connected business person) is going to have a personal issue with an individual or group and use these laws as a mechanism to slap them with.

Music, random public gatherings to enjoy the arts, busking, etc... isn't that what Galway City's all about??

+1

Busking itself aside, why don’t people see how dangerous this ambiguous style of law making is? A small bit of discretion is one thing but these laws are so flawed that they’re completely ambiguous.

Any busker knowing this is going to be constantly looking over their shoulder. Any personal grudge or reason outside the bye laws can be used as a complaint. In the council chambers it was stated than one of the bye laws was drafted because of ONE incident. How is that even allowed? We often need multiple accidents for a spot to be called a black spot so this is ridiculous.

The fact that we are already saying the laws are flawed and discretion is needed, even before they are enacted, should tell us how they are.

They’re not only stupid they are a dangerous precedent.

inisboffin · 11-09-2019 11:13am

xckjoo wrote: »

Cheers. Hadn't heard about the rest of it. Is there a link to it because (no offence) some of those sound like hyperbole.
I'll be honest again though and say that I agree with the pre-6/post-6 divide. I avoid Shop Street during the day because it's so choked with groups blocking up the street. I'm not sure what the better fix would be though beyond having a large urban centre which would allow for a lower density of busking "groups". But that's a whole other can of worms to open

I’m on a rubbish phone but there should be a link to the laws earlier in the thread, if not the Galway Buskers Community have a link up on their Facebook and the Galway Community Network have one too.
No offense taken but which part seems like hyperbole to you?

xtradel · 11-09-2019 11:30am

The council should be happy if a crowd gathers, at least it'll cover up the state of the street surface!

inisboffin · 11-09-2019 11:39am

Homelander wrote: »

No-one's going to be arrested for drawing a small crowd. This whole thing reminds me of the proposed laws to limit recreational ball games/skateboarding/whatever in public areas, it was aimed at stopping people interfering with/being a nusiance to the general public but people acted like the ERU were going to turn up and absolutely riddle people who had the audacity to play with their child in a public space.

How do we know no one will be arrested? The new law as it stands says it's possible.

Your analogy is great, you're right that people were outraged, and it was for the same slippery slope of a law. You do realise that because of objections the Council never passed those park laws. As in the past with the busking laws they keep deferring a decision.

It's very possible they will be deferred until public opinion is jaded and misinformation abounds. See a pattern?

biko · 13-09-2019 8:48am

Bit of an overreaction imo
https://www.facebook.com/thomas.connolly.399/posts/999882060403867

13-09-2019 9:34am

bodhrandude wrote: »

Well we brought a wee bit of trad to the street last Friday, myself and Kyle that is. Taken by a listener around the restaurant area.

Thats the kind of busking i love, but you get some busking and they cant sing a lick or are just tone deaf and just shouting it out, even worse if the have a microphone.

There are some very decent buskers around cork city one lad by the crawford on a guitar, and another young girl on a violin both very good also an elderly chap on a piano and he is amazing.

But the majority are just bloody awful

biko · 13-09-2019 11:04am

Regular non amplified busking works just fine.
That is way more traditional than what feels like 4 outdoor concerts along Shop Street.

gordongekko · 13-09-2019 11:43am

Nothing worse than some lad murdering a tune using an amp while you are trying to eat your lunch in Eyre Square.

Robbo · 13-09-2019 11:47am

biko wrote: »

Bit of an overreaction imo
https://www.facebook.com/thomas.connolly.399/posts/999882060403867

Wait until you read Dara Bradley in the Tribune...

Mal-Adjusted · 13-09-2019 1:01pm

To be fair, i can see the other side of this. A circle act can block up Shop st. so if it's any bit busy it can be a hassle to get through. And if one was outside my store, i'd be understandably worried about any potential drop in foot traffic. (though i'd love to see any stats of if big acts actually affect business). Don't get me wrong, i think these by-laws go way too far, but anything that might get the likes of XXX off the street can only be a good thing.

inisboffin · 13-09-2019 7:26pm

biko wrote: »

Regular non amplified busking works just fine.
That is way more traditional than what feels like 4 outdoor concerts along Shop Street.

It discriminates against some types of playing and others and indeed some voice types. No Latin pickin'? Aww.

I agree that noise has to be dealt with but there is NO noise restriction in the byelaws, just type (anything with an amp) and this also restricts the much quieter stuff too (but they're likely banned under the no stopping rule).

They should have worked with the buskers not against them.

inisboffin · 13-09-2019 7:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats the kind of busking i love, but you get some busking and they cant sing a lick or are just tone deaf and just shouting it out, even worse if the have a microphone.

There are some very decent buskers around cork city one lad by the crawford on a guitar, and another young girl on a violin both very good also an elderly chap on a piano and he is amazing.

But the majority are just bloody awful

Assuming more than you was recording and/or just stopped to listen, under the new bye laws they could be fined too for people just stopping!

inisboffin · 13-09-2019 7:28pm

It's mad how people keep bringing up 'traditional' and 'authentic'. As if no art form ever evolved and changed.

Big open air Busk (busking bye-laws)

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