Final Fantasy VII Remaster/Remake

johnny_ultimate · 18-05-2020 6:07pm

Actually think The Hobbit is a perfect comparison to FF7 Remake, but moreso the movies

Whereas The Hobbit is a lean, effective little page-turner, the films are a gargantuan, bloated three-film chore. Jackson expanded on nearly every detail and character, but in few ways that deepen the story beyond it simply being 'more'. The whole trilogy is a perfect example of how adding lore or complications does not make a story more compelling.

Like The Hobbit (the novel), FF7 (the original) is not a perfect piece of work. But like The Hobbit movie trilogy I do feel the remake confuses 'volume' of storytelling for 'quality' of storytelling. There's a lot more story in FF7 remake, but aside from certain aspects - in particular the extra space given to characters - a lot of it is just filler. It's absolutely nice to see Midgar realised in more fidelity than before, but conversations don't need to be 5-10 minutes long to get their point across. Indeed, I think the sheer length of some of the cutscenes, tangents and levels here simply loses the meaning of what's happening because there's so much noise around it.

One of the main problems with the Train Graveyard section here, aside from it being another badly designed level (half of it just leading you around in a loop and a superfluous boss fight so you're delayed in pulling a lever), is how it fits into the story. You enter the graveyard at a moment of extremely high tension and imminent danger... but that's all forgotten for roughly 60-90 minutes while you run around chasing wisps for some reason. It's not the player getting lost: that's just how the design works. It creates IMO a strange and prolonged lack of urgency at a time when the story is at its most urgent.

Greyfox · 18-05-2020 6:53pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Finally finished it last night.

Final Fantasy 7 Remake is a badly-designed game. Like I'm a big fan of the original, and there are a few things this game does well and in rare cases even better than the original. But I've got to be honest: there are so many missteps, frustrations and rough edges that my ultimate conclusion was there's more bad than good here.

In terms of those positives first, the main things are the characters and the combat. The game does right by its characters, making all the leads more likable and believable than they were in that infamously rough translation from back in the day. That extends to the combat, where thought genuinely has gone into how each character plays compared to the others. Fights in general are a highlight of the game. The combat system does risk turning into barely comprehensible fireworks display at times (a late game boss basically just hurls numbers at the screen) but it usually stays on the right side of legible. I don't prefer it to a really good turn-based system (ala the Persona games) and some individual fights are frustrating, but it's probably the most satisfying quasi real-time system I've come across...

The story, it goes without saying given some of the creatives involved, is often terribly told too: particularly in the late game, cutscenes have no flow or pace to them, and are instead just an increasingly large cast of characters yelling at each other about things it's hard to care about. It goes full Kingdom Hearts towards the end, of course, but I think there's a persistent sense throughout that the designers assume the players know the original story beat-by-beat. I've played the original a few times, but in particular in the game's third act the moment-to-moment motivations for everybody became increasingly foggy. When it eventually swings wildly and collapses into pure overwrought anime guff (far earlier in the narrative than the original :pac:) I found it impossible to care.

I disagree, I believe its a well designed game overall. It has some padding issues which is the only thing stopping this from been a masterpiece, its my game of the year anyway and I'm looking forward to playing the game again on hard. I found the combat to be superb, mixing real time with turn based made the combat more engaging and fun than most turn based games. The story is still excellent overall and I loved the fact that it showed the impact everything has on Midgar's citizens.

RedXIV · 19-05-2020 12:13pm

billybonkers wrote: »

So do I sell this on now that I have finished it or what should I do?

If you are looking to recoup money, I'd suggest selling ASAP, if there is one other consistency in life other than death and taxes, it's that a final fantasy game price will drop like a rock within a few months of release

Kunkka · 19-05-2020 1:21pm

Finished it there this morning. I really enjoyed it overall.

It does have some shortcomings, there is no doubt about it, but there is so much more that makes it a really solid remake that is loyal to the great game the original was.

Excited to see what they do with the next part.

quokula · 19-05-2020 3:16pm

Christy42 wrote: »

Train graveyard is not a story. Why are there peoples ghosts in a place trains are left to rot? Train graveyard tells me nothing. It is a place with ghosts and trains. No story there. In the original they didn't have room. It was already on 3 discs and had a lot of ground to cover. Here they had room and so gave the place an actual story.

It is like saying you can ignore all of the hobbit and just tell someone there and back again and they should be able to fill in the blanks.

You don't need to know why. The ghosts need no more explanation than any other monster you come across in any other area. Spending hours trying to explain them, whilst you can see helicopters passing overhead on the way to the pillar where the actual plot is happening, is indulgent and unnecessary.

And that's not the same as saying "sure you might as well skip everything." For example they added extra content where you visit Jesse's parents before the second bombing mission. This went a long way to developing the characters and fleshing out the world that bit more and was exactly the sort of addition the remake should have contained, but proved to be pretty much the only major worthwhile addition to the story for the duration.

Going off on a tangent about why there are ghosts in an area that took five minutes to traverse in the original game is completely pointless on the other hand, and additionally completely ruins the pacing in the run up to trying to rescue the crew at the pillar.

Christy42 · 19-05-2020 3:38pm

quokula wrote: »

You don't need to know why. The ghosts need no more explanation than any other monster you come across in any other area. Spending hours trying to explain them, whilst you can see helicopters passing overhead on the way to the pillar where the actual plot is happening, is indulgent and unnecessary.

And that's not the same as saying "sure you might as well skip everything." For example they added extra content where you visit Jesse's parents before the second bombing mission. This went a long way to developing the characters and fleshing out the world that bit more and was exactly the sort of addition the remake should have contained, but proved to be pretty much the only major worthwhile addition to the story for the duration.

Going off on a tangent about why there are ghosts in an area that took five minutes to traverse in the original game is completely pointless on the other hand, and additionally completely ruins the pacing in the run up to trying to rescue the crew at the pillar.

I like seeing more detail about the areas they are in and otherwise generic areas they passed through in the main game. We are after all talking about a game where the best time to breed animals is when there is a giant meteor about to strike the planet. Indeed I felt the reason monsters get into midgar in the first place through the junkyards as interesting as well, especially seeing the natural creation of a neighbourhood watch in response. Made it feel like the place existed without the player. So they didn't explain every monster but they did give a better sense of how each section came to be. At least from my perspective.

It was what. An hour for that section? A little off pace but people are making it sound like they spent days in the place. It really didn't take that long. I mean they could have shortened the section to be fair and kept the reasoning behind the ghosts.

I mean I get we won't agree on it and it is different opinions on what should make a game work.

Laurali · 22-05-2020 6:10pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Like to just talk about chapter 8 for a second
There's a moment where they play an altered version of Aerith's theme. It's the scene where you're at the playground. There's nothing special about the scene really other than it's a famous scene from the original game that people will probably remember.

What I found interesting is in the original game Aeris' theme was like this midi orchestra outpouring of grief, it's only played twice in the original game IIRC. In Remake the theme feels pitched somewhere between sad nostalgia and a sense of hope. I know this sounds insane but the soundtrack feels to be aimed at manipulating emotions in a way that isn't just nostalgia bait. Like they know that you know what happens later which is what I'm getting at when I say that this game will lose some of its impact for the audience who haven't played the original.

I ****ed up Cloud's equipment during this scene cause I was crying lol

I'm only catching up on this thread cause I didnt want spoilers, but I feel ya. That seem was the most nostalgia for me, even though it was so minor.

Kunkka · 23-05-2020 7:22am

So what happens next...

I am convinced that the whole whisper approach is to give them a free pass for the next instalment to do whatever they want to the story but to keep all the locations etc the same.

I reckon they'll go for a big controversial change like Aerith not dying or something...

Losphel · 23-05-2020 11:38am

Hi. I'm hoping somebody may be able to shed some light on a question that's been nagging me for quite some time. I have completed the game--and enjoyed it tremendously--but I'm not sure if it's something that I missed or that hasn't yet been answered in-game. It's very minor--I think--but it's still kind of bothering me a little.

Spoilers for Chapter 8:

After Cloud has a vision or hallucination of Sephiroth stating that the Reunion is nothing to be feared, he mentions to Aerith that he believes Sephiroth might still be alive.

The part that is confusing for me is Aerith's reaction to that. The camera zooms in to her mouth when she softly says , "Oh, right." Aerith then abruptly turns away from Cloud, followed by a very terse, "Come on, let's go."

Any insight or clarification is greatly appreciated.

Mr.Fantastic · 23-05-2020 8:25pm

Just finished it , not gone on the ending , over all game is very good but could do with some fat being trimmed. Felt the train graveyard was a bit of a slog.

Dave0301 · 24-05-2020 11:52pm

Have not read the thread as I am only on Ch 14...

I just wanted to say a big f*ck you to Jules and those bloody pull uos.

K.O.Kiki · 26-05-2020 7:03pm

At last, the Tim Rodgers review:

johnny_ultimate · 26-05-2020 7:11pm

I watched an hour of it last night, and will work through the rest over the next few days. I admire his insane dedication to absurdist, deadpan nonsense mixed with manically thorough analysis - for me it’s basically a type of relaxing ASMR.

Dave0301 · 26-05-2020 11:00pm

Finished it earlier today.

Combat system was very enjoyable, although I did find Normal mode a bit too straightforward. Will play through on Hard mode over the next few weeks.

Agree with what others are saying in terms of the game design at times, a bit clunky, linear and repetitive.

Was disappointed in the ending for two reasons:

1. I am still not sold on the ending...it seems to be to allow them to have a licence to make changes to the story in future episodes

2. I enjoy the original much more after leaving Midgar, and I am annoyed I have to wait for it now :pac:

I am interested to see how they will approach the retention of materia, weapons, experience moving forward. I would like to see some sort of a system where at least part of it is carried over.

Dave0301 · 27-05-2020 9:46am

Just to add to the above, the soundtrack is great.

First few chapters on Hard mode cleared. Still tearing through the minions as my materia set up is good and I know their weaknesses.

Some of the later bosses I can see been a real pain though.

one armed dwarf · 27-05-2020 10:11am

Speaking of the soundtrack it should be released today on some storefronts I think.

Can't find it yet (to buy I mean).

RedXIV · 27-05-2020 11:41am

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Speaking of the soundtrack it should be released today on some storefronts I think.

Can't find it yet (to buy I mean).

That a bigger version than the one that came with the deluxe edition?

one armed dwarf · 27-05-2020 12:49pm

It's on google play, yeah it's the full soundtrack. 150 tracks or something

Kiith · 27-05-2020 1:20pm

Not seeing it on Spotify yet anyway. Guessing it might be a while before they release it on digital services?

RedXIV · 27-05-2020 1:31pm

Here for those looking

€18.50 for the full 156 songs or 99c each.

Been a long time since I bought music. Would like to hear it on spotify or something first if possible, but to be fair, it was a very good soundtrack

Dave0301 · 27-05-2020 8:07pm

Ch 9 of Hard mode now...so much for taking a break :pac:

Haven't found it too difficult so far without items and MP restores, you just need to have some forward planning for bosses.

What do people make of the ending?

I seen a very well put theory on Reddit that what happened in FF7 the original is one possible course of events, and that Aerith and Sephiroth are aware of what should happen, hence the introduction of the specters of faith. I think SE wanted to set themselves up with enough scope so that they can explore new narratives or add to the existing ones.

Difficult to judge it without knowing the end point they are aiming for. I do think that it would be confusing for players that have not played the origianl

One thing is for certain, it has made me want to play the original again!

Padre_Pio · 28-05-2020 4:56pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

Ch 9 of Hard mode now...so much for taking a break :pac:

Haven't found it too difficult so far without items and MP restores, you just need to have some forward planning for bosses.

What do people make of the ending?
I seen a very well put theory on Reddit that what happened in FF7 the original is one possible course of events, and that Aerith and Sephiroth are aware of what should happen, hence the introduction of the specters of faith. I think SE wanted to set themselves up with enough scope so that they can explore new narratives or add to the existing ones.

Difficult to judge it without knowing the end point they are aiming for. I do think that it would be confusing for players that have not played the origianl

One thing is for certain, it has made me want to play the original again!

I like the direction they're going, but the mechanism they used is balls.
There was no need for any of it.

Could have been done seamlessly echos of their original selves appearing at dividing points in the story.

Like when you're doing time trials in a racing game and you're racing a ghost car of your previous run.
They already have flashbacks from Nibelheim scattered throughout the game. Could do something similar there.

goon_magee · 28-05-2020 5:14pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I like the direction they're going, but the mechanism they used is balls.
There was no need for any of it.

Could have been done seamlessly echos of their original selves appearing at dividing points in the story.

Like when you're doing time trials in a racing game and you're racing a ghost car of your previous run.
They already have flashbacks from Nibelheim scattered throughout the game. Could do something similar there.

Agree 100% with this, the way it was handled was barrel scraping stuff. I'm still not even sure who that ending was for; fans who want a faithful retread basically get taunted, whereas newcomers to the series now have something that it supposedly a remake, but at the same time has an ending that almost makes having played the original game a requirement.

Like has been said above, nothing wrong with the concept, but everything wrong with the convoluted clusterf*ck way in which it was handled. Square Enix's ability to tell a coherent story is debatable at the best of times, and that ending gave me no confidence that they are going to be able to deliver a satisfying narrative moving forwards.

Dave0301 · 29-05-2020 9:26pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I like the direction they're going, but the mechanism they used is balls.
There was no need for any of it.

Could have been done seamlessly echos of their original selves appearing at dividing points in the story.

Like when you're doing time trials in a racing game and you're racing a ghost car of your previous run.
They already have flashbacks from Nibelheim scattered throughout the game. Could do something similar there.

goon_magee wrote: »

Agree 100% with this, the way it was handled was barrel scraping stuff. I'm still not even sure who that ending was for; fans who want a faithful retread basically get taunted, whereas newcomers to the series now have something that it supposedly a remake, but at the same time has an ending that almost makes having played the original game a requirement.

Like has been said above, nothing wrong with the concept, but everything wrong with the convoluted clusterf*ck way in which it was handled. Square Enix's ability to tell a coherent story is debatable at the best of times, and that ending gave me no confidence that they are going to be able to deliver a satisfying narrative moving forwards.

If I had not played the original, I don't think that ending would make a whole lot of sense...even less so when you have played the original :pac:

For what it is worth, I think Aerith still dies, but to make it even more emotional for players of the original, it will happen and she will know that is has to...i.e. the whole density with a capital D

Just cleared all the battles in the Shinra VR challenge. The last boss was not as tough as the 2nd last one. It was worth it just for Cloud's response to the monologue he had to listen to!

fixXxer · 03-06-2020 9:04am

Just finished it a couple of nights ago.

Really enjoyed the last boss fights. Very intense, and interesting possibilities as you seemed to be fighting future echos of yourself.

I'm glad its going in a different direction to be honest. I've played FF7 so many times I know the story and the beats like the back of my hand. Yes its Meta, and needs you to have played the original but I find the idea really intriguing. With so much time and effort involved I can understand Squeenix not just wanting to do a retread.

I'm less happy about biggs and wedge surviving as their deaths were a big part of Barret becoming more human but we'll see where this goes. I think Aerith will die regardless, her death still being a lynch pin event in defeating Sephiroth, but she'll go in to it eyes open and accepting.

They absolutely nailed the characters and development of all the old gang. Watching cloud move from being a loner to being a member of the group made me proper smile at points.

RedXIV · 03-06-2020 9:49am

The Tifa theme that was exclusive to the butterfingers promotion in the states is now free on the store if anyone is looking?
Can see it here

thomond2006 · 04-06-2020 10:21pm

On my second playthrough on hard mode and I'm realising how mind-blowing the ost is. Chapter 15 in particular is a highlight: https://youtu.be/xR3Uuw5xomQ

As a FF veteran I'm used to a few battle themes in a FF title but I feel like there's 10+ remixes of the battle theme in FF7R.

Greyfox · 04-06-2020 11:39pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

Ch 9 of Hard mode now...so much for taking a break :pac:

Haven't found it too difficult so far without items and MP restores, you just need to have some forward planning for bosses.

Playing the game on hard now as well, the no MP restores make it quite challenging as there's loads of Materia I barely used in normal that are now super important.

Dave0301 · 06-06-2020 8:58am

Greyfox wrote: »

Playing the game on hard now as well, the no MP restores make it quite challenging as there's loads of Materia I barely used in normal that are now super important.

I was the opposite. All of my materia was near maxed by the time I started my hard play through.

Prayer and Chakra x 2 were maxed and used for healing as well healing materia for emergencies.

I had two elemental materia and tried to use this to slice through the minions and save MP for boss fights.

Vicxas · 08-06-2020 12:40pm

Prayer materia is the best AOE healer, chakra is a great personal top up.

Elemental materia becomes very important, especially for some boss fights. If you junction to defence with the right element it can make it much easier.

This is very important for the Bahamut hard mode fight.

lordlame · 13-06-2020 6:43pm

Vicxas wrote: »

Prayer materia is the best AOE healer, chakra is a great personal top up.

Elemental materia becomes very important, especially for some boss fights. If you junction to defence with the right element it can make it much easier.
This is very important for the Bahamut hard mode fight.

Just on the ending - watched it a few times - not sure Zack is still alive. Is that not just a flashback as Aeris pasts the place he dies?

I know in crisis core he defeats the army but a second batch of infantry kill him?

Christy42 · 22-06-2020 3:56pm

One thing I really appreciate is how much the item/mp rules change the hard game. I think it breaths new life into the game and changes how you have to think about combat.

Not the biggest thing but definitely something I appreciate.

Dave0301 · 05-07-2020 7:10pm

I am thinking of doing another run through of this as I liked the combat so much.

I have already cleared it in hard mode. Does anyone have any suggestions on making a run through more challenging, but in a fair way?

RedXIV · 05-07-2020 10:22pm

one of the guys on the thread did a "no-heal" run-through. maybe you could try that you masochist

Dave0301 · 06-07-2020 10:16am

RedXIV wrote: »

one of the guys on the thread did a "no-heal" run-through. maybe you could try that you masochist

I am not quite that bad :pac:

Maybe I will just give the original a play through instead

YouSavedMyLife · 13-07-2020 10:05am

Dave0301 wrote: »

I am not quite that bad :pac:

Maybe I will just give the original a play through instead

I did the no heal run on my first play through. The boss fights felt way more tactical as I had to learn their patterns and minimise damage as much as possible. I allowed myself healing outside of combat, with potions and equipping healing materia when needed. I would highly recommend it.

I didn't do the bonus post game content in the battle area. I was somewhat burned out on the game and wanted a break, never got back to it.

Vincent Vega · 14-07-2020 5:18pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqi6T2ZqL9Q

Kunkka · 14-07-2020 10:52pm

That is amazing.

daheadonu · 22-07-2020 12:38am

Playing through this atm,very disappointed at how little player Input is required for combat it's a spam square feet besides 2 bosses I have come across,loving the nostalgia though there's a lot of heart in this game.

Some complaints the dungeons needed to be cut down more than once I've turned a corner after a long trek through an area to find another massive slog awaits me!

None more egregious than

chapter 12,s long trek to getting to sector 7,you learn the plates going to drop and there's no sense of urgency just one big slog a dungeon into another,actually amazed that they turned train graveyard into from a few screen area to 2 completely separate areas InvOf itself! Liked the arith sideplot but should have been cut out and out somewhere else,it just took away from what was supposed to be a fraught race against time Then the plate...wow those goodbyes with biggs and Jesse were so over the top and then biggs isn't even dead and neither is wedge for that matter!I was speechless left it after finding him but will return to finish it off/

Dave0301 · 23-07-2020 2:09pm

daheadonu wrote: »

Playing through this atm,very disappointed at how little player Input is required for combat it's a spam square feet besides 2 bosses I have come across,loving the nostalgia though there's a lot of heart in this game.

Some complaints the dungeons needed to be cut down more than once I've turned a corner after a long trek through an area to find another massive slog awaits me!

None more egregious than
chapter 12,s long trek to getting to sector 7,you learn the plates going to drop and there's no sense of urgency just one big slog a dungeon into another,actually amazed that they turned train graveyard into from a few screen area to 2 completely separate areas InvOf itself! Liked the arith sideplot but should have been cut out and out somewhere else,it just took away from what was supposed to be a fraught race against time Then the plate...wow those goodbyes with biggs and Jesse were so over the top and then biggs isn't even dead and neither is wedge for that matter!I was speechless left it after finding him but will return to finish it off/

Agree with most of that to be fair. Some of the later encounters make things a bit more demanding if you don't have the party set up properly.

Hard mode makes you engage more with the combat and needing to know your enemy and set up accordingly.

Creamy Goodness · 23-07-2020 2:21pm

case in point - Hellhouse, I'm struggling here and I've got cloud on lvl 50 and Aerith on 49, really don't want to exit the area (means exiting the chapter) and grinding elsewhere. I'm on course to get the last 3 dresses that I need for the trophy.

Vicxas · 23-07-2020 9:53pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

case in point - Hellhouse, I'm struggling here and I've got cloud on lvl 50 and Aerith on 49, really don't want to exit the area (means exiting the chapter) and grinding elsewhere. I'm on course to get the last 3 dresses that I need for the trophy.

Bio is your best mate here. It kills him even when he's changing elements

Dave0301 · 25-07-2020 2:22pm

Vicxas wrote: »

Bio is your best mate here. It kills him even when he's changing elements

Bio definitely helps. I also suggest using Arcane Ward and then the correct elemental magic to help speed up a stagger on the Hellhouse.

Christy42 · 25-07-2020 4:11pm

Keep an atb gauge ready for tonberrys. All my deaths vs that thing in hard were down to me not dealing with those immediately.

Creamy Goodness · 25-07-2020 4:21pm

Got past it this morning. Really don’t know how i did it as my MP was quite low (80 for Cloud, 100~ for Aerith).

Got the 9 dresses trophy so now it’s back to the simulator to get the last summon and continue on from chapter 4.

one armed dwarf · 03-08-2020 9:38pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

I am thinking of doing another run through of this as I liked the combat so much.

I have already cleared it in hard mode. Does anyone have any suggestions on making a run through more challenging, but in a fair way?

I been trying some stuff myself. I don't think I could do a whole playthrough of it again but one thing I tried was fighting a few bosses with no weapon upgrades on hard mode (you can reset them from Chadley)

So stagger percentage becomes incredibly important which makes fights way more exciting and tense. No idea how it would scale to later on boss fights.

Clipped airbuster with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t5FZlvXUZc

I hope the PC version has an extra difficulty mode above hard.

lordlame · 08-08-2020 3:57pm

€40 in Smyths now

https://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/video-games-and-tablets/playstation-4/playstation-4-games/final-fantasy-vii-remake-ps4/p/179220

11-09-2020 11:48am

Getting a lend of a ps4... where would be the best/cheapest place to buy this?

I'm pretty much exclusively a pc user for the past decade. I understand the playstation digital store is crazy expensive?

Retr0gamer · 11-09-2020 1:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Getting a lend of a ps4... where would be the best/cheapest place to buy this?

I'm pretty much exclusively a pc user for the past decade. I understand the playstation digital store is crazy expensive?

If you hang on it should be out in April on PC. I'd say (and this is pure speculation from me) it will be very much improved on the Ps4 original and will get ported to the PS5 .

But yeah outside of sales the digital store is expensive.

01-10-2020 1:54pm

Managed to pick it up for 40 quid second hand. I just realised I don't have an ethernet cable long enough to hook up the ps4. Would I definitely need to do that to get some patches? Or is version 1 good enough?

Final Fantasy VII Remaster/Remake

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