General gaming discussion

Adyx · 23-01-2021 3:58pm

Just going back to VR for a second, Nightdive are working on a VR version of System Shock 2, which sounds terrifying to me.

one armed dwarf · 23-01-2021 4:46pm

On 'ludonarrative dissonance' if people want to play a masterclass in 'ludonarrative consistence' the Pathologic series is what you need.

Thecageyone · 23-01-2021 6:50pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It’s important to remember the context these games emerged in, when there was a big debate emerging over what kind of stories games could tell. It was after the emergence of the infamous ‘ludonarrative dissonance’ debate about how many games (things like BioShock, famously) were telling stories with themes and ideas that were often the opposite of what players could actually do in the game itself. How can Nathan Drake be a charming, down-to-earth hero while gunning down hundreds of dudes? How can BioShock critique the ideological foundation of Rapture while gleefully encouraging you to use Rapture’s toys and tools to your benefit? This isn’t to say there weren’t great story games before walking sims, but they were typically within fairly rigid genres (such as the JRPG, isometric RPG, FPS or point ‘n’ click genre).

What the best walking sim games did (and occasionally still do, although it feels like most developers are eager to try new things instead these days) was remove those complications so the spaces and stories could be far more internally consistent. You can tell the story you want to by limiting player interactions to a degree that they don’t actively conflict with the narrative or characters. It was a sense that ‘actually, we can tell different types of stories’ by using game spaces and language, but those types of stories are in total contrast to most popular gameplay mechanics.

The limitations became clear, of course, as more of these games were released. One of the big things was that a lot of the stories were ‘passive’ - as in you’re simply uncovering stories that already happened - which can be fairly limiting. And you need the writing to be very strong when that’s what the entire game is resting on. Tacoma (second game by the Gone Home crew) felt like a somewhat confused attempt to move the genre forward, without quite getting there - not a bad game by any stretch, but definitely one where you could start seeing the limitations. That’s why, as I mentioned earlier, it was so exciting to see a second generation of story-focused exploration games that have boasted far more robust gameplay systems to more actively involve the player, even if it’s just figuring out what happened to other characters.

There’s a lot of great stuff in the best walking sim games, though. It really makes you appreciate just how strong and potent environmental storytelling can be. For me, they’ve definitely been a valuable and rewarding part of my own ever-evolving interest in games.

This is where I feel they got it pretty bang on with Edith Finch, the story telling is great, but you feel a part of it, you are involved to an extent. More like that I would love to see, but longer. It's probably a huge ask for a game like that to be 10hrs+, I think it took a couple years to make that one less than 3hrs

johnny_ultimate · 23-01-2021 9:22pm

Thecageyone wrote: »

This is where I feel they got it pretty bang on with Edith Finch, the story telling is great, but you feel a part of it, you are involved to an extent. More like that I would love to see, but longer. It's probably a huge ask for a game like that to be 10hrs+, I think it took a couple years to make that one less than 3hrs

Edith Finch was actually a pretty late release as far as walking simulators go, so it would've had a lot of time to look and other games and figure out where to go from there - including building on the foundation of the team's own Unfinished Swan. It's not my favourite of them (although it's a really good game), but it is probably the one most interested to see how they can play around and stretch the form to offer up different perspectives.

I actually think short-length is one of the big assets of these sorts of games, as they can pace the stories properly on the assumption the player will be playing it in just one or two sessions - allows a lot of the faff to be cut out. I think if you're going bigger you need to be in the sort of Outer Wilds or Obra Dinn territory of having deeper mechanics. Or even the ultimate of all walking sims: Death Stranding. Now that has some serious ****ing walking

Thecageyone · 23-01-2021 10:29pm

Yeah I thought about stranding, but it looks a bit of a PITA, have watched some streamers play it. It's almost too much going on, looks amazing though

I get the point on the run time, but sometimes you just wish a game was that bit longer .... it's a good sign, but they need to price them correct. I'm never paying over €15 for any game that takes 2-3hrs to complete

I see Control is now available on XBGP for PC, any good? never really paid much attention to it on release

AlmightyCushion · 24-01-2021 1:23am

Thecageyone wrote: »

I see Control is now available on XBGP for PC, any good? never really paid much attention to it on release

I loved it. Probably the best game I have played in a few years. Gameplay is great and the setting and story are just mental which works for me.

Thecageyone · 24-01-2021 1:36am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I loved it. Probably the best game I have played in a few years. Gameplay is great and the setting and story are just mental which works for me.

Nice, I have nothing to lose bar the d/l time

will give it a go, thanks

MOH · 24-01-2021 3:47am

For anyone who like The Stanley Parable, and similar amusing walking sims, definitely try Dr. Langeskov, The Tiger, and The Terribly Cursed Emerald: A Whirlwind Heist.

It's not what you think (whatever that may be). Same people who did Stanley. Also, it's free.

RasTa · 24-01-2021 12:02pm

Loved Stanley Parable but absolutely hated the writing in Gone home. Like it pissed me off it was so bad. American soppy rubbish.

Thecageyone · 24-01-2021 4:31pm

Ok, got Control installed, took an age for some reason, usually get downloads from Xbox GP pretty quick. I see Medium is on it's way too, anyone interested in that one? looks decent, they're [previewers] comparing it to Alan Wake and Silent Hill, 2 games I loved. Not sure about the split screen/dual world thing, how that'll play out or how it'll run on my PC :O

Thecageyone · 24-01-2021 11:24pm

Tried Control tonight, and mostly it just made me realise how terrible a gamer I truly am! I keep getting killed at a specific section, and it's only just started! A red room with machine gun armed enemies, I have to drop in there and just go hell for leather it seems ... and just keep dying before I off the last dude. Frustrating, not what i want in a game, I'll try again but ... any tips?

The Raging Bile Duct · 24-01-2021 11:26pm

Thecageyone wrote: »

Tried Control tonight, and mostly it just made me realise how terrible a gamer I truly am! I keep getting killed at a specific section, and it's only just started! A red room with machine gun armed enemies, I have to drop in there and just go hell for leather it seems ... and just keep dying before I off the last dude. Frustrating, not what i want in a game, I'll try again but ... any tips?

Dodge as much as you can and pick up the blue shards the enemies drop to get your health back up.

AlmightyCushion · 25-01-2021 12:07am

Thecageyone wrote: »

Tried Control tonight, and mostly it just made me realise how terrible a gamer I truly am! I keep getting killed at a specific section, and it's only just started! A red room with machine gun armed enemies, I have to drop in there and just go hell for leather it seems ... and just keep dying before I off the last dude. Frustrating, not what i want in a game, I'll try again but ... any tips?

I found some sections of it quite tough early on. No real tips other than to persist with it and try to use cover.

Varik · 25-01-2021 12:13am

Rumour that Lucasfilm Games apparently putting a new Knights of the Old republic into development.

Not by EA/Bioware too apparently, and since none of that is cannon might not really be related other than a standard old D20 RPG. Hopefully it's not that new high republic stuff.

copperspock · 25-01-2021 5:34am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

VR is facing the Mega CD issue, the same every console add on faces. You are targeting a fraction of the audience on a platform and can make more money targeting the entire audience. Of course there is room to make an exceptional game and hit it big with a very enthusiastic player base, working design could sell through to +50% of the Mega CD user base with their marquee titles but it's always going to be a niche of the platform.

That isn't an issue with something standalone like the Quest 2 though. Its CPU isn't particularly powerful, but it can still handle some very good games like Saints & Sinners and Pop:1.
The next iteration (and hopefully next competitor) will be able to handle even more ambitious titles that'll appeal to more people.

MOH · 25-01-2021 12:38pm

Thecageyone wrote: »

Tried Control tonight, and mostly it just made me realise how terrible a gamer I truly am! I keep getting killed at a specific section, and it's only just started! A red room with machine gun armed enemies, I have to drop in there and just go hell for leather it seems ... and just keep dying before I off the last dude. Frustrating, not what i want in a game, I'll try again but ... any tips?

It's not you, it's just (unpopular opinion alert) the game isn't very good. I kept getting killed in an early section because of the awful camera - I couldn't get an angle where I could see the enemies without being exposed to all of them because the camera view kept getting obstructed (it was either by a plant or the player character, I can't remember which).

A bit later I ended up in a more open area, lot of enemies on the far side of an open space kept killing me, eventually ignored them, sprinted forward and managed to get into a passageway under them, from where I could come back up some steps and pick them off. Then ones above me hilariously just kept shooting nonstop into the ground above my head.

The only bits of the story that aren't complete cliches are done a lot better on the SCP website they seem to be ripped from. That said, I got fed up with it halfway (?) through after a very obvious twist, so maybe there was more to it. But for me it's a dead heat between Control and RDR2 for most overrated game of the year.

gimli2112 · 25-01-2021 12:58pm

Control wasn't bad but it was very frustrating at times. I can't remember why. As you levelled up things got better.

Thecageyone · 25-01-2021 6:38pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I found some sections of it quite tough early on. No real tips other than to persist with it and try to use cover.

Tried it a couple more times, it's annoying as the are has to load each time I die. As mentioned above, the camera really doesn't help matters, the enemies in this spot are tougher than the ones encountered previous, one has a much higher health bar so must be some kind of mini boss? I'm offing all of them bar him, tried rushing him but he keeps catching me - gets a bit disorientating. I have no skills yet, no dodge, just the wee hand gun and a shove that doesn't do much damage.

Controls, ironically, aren't the best, aiming with a controller is all over the place, maybe I need to kb & m that area?

Jordan 199 · 27-01-2021 8:31pm

Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice is an amazing game.

Mr.Saturn · 28-01-2021 6:30am

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I thought Control had a reasonable difficulty, there was no boss or enemy that posed too much of a threat but then that's probably because I figured out how OP levitation is. Enemies just can't hit you when you do it, it's hilarious.

I feel like they tucked all the game's difficulty away in the side-missions. As though that's why Remedy thought what people meant by the word 'balance.' That moldy tentacle prick just trashed me for the best part of an hour and even the win came in absolute clutch. Can't decide if it's better or worse than the 2nd Mr. Tommassi fight. Christ.

28-01-2021 8:53am

I must get back to Control. Got it for the ps4 but it had pretty substantial performance issues at time. Have a ps5 now. So should be grand on it.

Thecageyone · 28-01-2021 12:06pm

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I thought Control had a reasonable difficulty, there was no boss or enemy that posed too much of a threat but then that's probably because I figured out how OP levitation is. Enemies just can't hit you when you do it, it's hilarious.

I don't have levitation, you don't have any skills at start and they certainly can hit you! I'm just bad at shooters in general though, and I end up giving up out of frustration. The section I'm referring to is needlessly frustrating at the start of a game IMO, you're basically cornered in a room with terrible camera angles, limited vision [the room is lit in res, and gets smokey fast] enemies who seem to be able to pick you off behind cover to boot. You have limited health and you can only replensih by running out in the open to pick up health from KO'd enemies. I know it's doable, but easy it is not, and having to reload the area each time is the biggest turn off.

28-01-2021 12:33pm

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

I feel like they tucked all the game's difficulty away in the side-missions. As though that's why Remedy thought what people meant by the word 'balance.' That moldy tentacle prick just trashed me for the best part of an hour and even the win came in absolute clutch. Can't decide if it's better or worse than the 2nd Mr. Tommassi fight. Christ.

The mold boss was insane, I only beat that when the mold enemies didn't spawn. The second Tomassi fight can be cheesed by staying on the highest gantry/crane and shooting him from above. He never flies higher so he cant attack you effectively.

28-01-2021 12:35pm

Thecageyone wrote: »

I don't have levitation, you don't have any skills at start and they certainly can hit you! I'm just bad at shooters in general though, and I end up giving up out of frustration. The section I'm referring to is needlessly frustrating at the start of a game IMO, you're basically cornered in a room with terrible camera angles, limited vision [the room is lit in res, and gets smokey fast] enemies who seem to be able to pick you off behind cover to boot. You have limited health and you can only replensih by running out in the open to pick up health from KO'd enemies. I know it's doable, but easy it is not, and having to reload the area each time is the biggest turn off.

You have to keep moving in Control. You can't really depend on much cover as it gets blown to bits fairly rapidly.

Mr.Saturn · 28-01-2021 2:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The mold boss was insane, I only beat that when the mold enemies didn't spawn. The second Tomassi fight can be cheesed by staying on the highest gantry/crane and shooting him from above. He never flies higher so he cant attack you effectively.

I kept not being able to get a consistent shot at the top and, by the time you finagle a shot on him, half my health bar would be obliterated by the waves of mooks he was dropping in. I think I ended up pea-shooting from behind a pillar/wall near the ceiling for 190000 hours in what happened to be the hollowest taste of victory that game had to offer.

SomeSayKos · 28-01-2021 3:45pm

I'm replaying Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 to experience the 60fps and boy oh boy is that a pretty looking game. I'm really finding it a struggle to go back to 30fps games now these days.

Dcully · 28-01-2021 3:53pm

SomeSayKos wrote: »

I'm replaying Ghost of Tsushima on PS5 to experience the 60fps and boy oh boy is that a pretty looking game. I'm really finding it a struggle to go back to 30fps games now these days.

I cant play 60fps games after playing 144fps for a few years.

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