Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

0lddog · 15-01-2021 11:46pm

For many years an EI ancillary services Co, Cara Data Processing ( later 'Cara' ) was a major player in the Irish IT services industry. My recollection is of it being originally setup to try to find something for the mainframe to do at night ( punch card / batch processing was how things were done at the time ) I seem to recall Maurice Foley ( later of GPA ) had some involvement in this.

L1011 · 15-01-2021 11:49pm

BT Ireland's managed services division is what was Cara; albeit it had become Bull Cara by then

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/british-telecom-pays-15m-for-cara-technology-group-1.513826

EI ran hotels across the globe, a catering firm and even a pub in Dublin (in Tailors Hall) for few years.

0lddog · 16-01-2021 12:04am

Yup, IIRC at one stage Cara had fair international success with software for the hotel vertical market

This has gone so off topic its just stupid ( but they were great times

)

Stephen Strange · 16-01-2021 1:23am

L1011 wrote: »

BT Ireland's managed services division is what was Cara; albeit it had become Bull Cara by then

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/british-telecom-pays-15m-for-cara-technology-group-1.513826

EI ran hotels across the globe, a catering firm and even a pub in Dublin (in Tailors Hall) for few years.

They also owned a hospital in Iraq if memory serves

Edit: Parc (subsidiary of EI) ran a hospital in Iraq on behalf of Iraqi government

goingnowhere · 16-01-2021 1:25am

Astral in the late 70's early 80's was one of the leaders in the PSS business and hosted numerous airlines.

To make things worse Astral is actually not a clean start it was a fork of IPARS (which is a fork of PARS). But it comes from a era when we could build complex and robust transaction processing systems. It was an IBM360 system, IBM current server platforms still support this.

Its old, its stable, it works. Yes its clunky but staff seem to be able to keep things rolling and thanks to some add ons and the datalex overlay it works

trellheim · 17-01-2021 3:05pm

For many years an EI ancillary services Co, Cara Data Processing ( later 'Cara' ) was a major player in the Irish IT services industry. My recollection is of it being originally setup to try to find something for the mainframe to do at night ( punch card / batch processing was how things were done at the time ) I seem to recall Maurice Foley ( later of GPA ) had some involvement in this.

Whenever I tell people that we were doing cloud many years ago they scoff because no institutional memory of timesharing

imfml · 17-01-2021 7:12pm

Any word on when MAN TAs will go on sale? I notice it's still not live in the app, would they not be getting tight on time now?

Tenger · 17-01-2021 9:26pm

imfml wrote: »

Any word on when MAN TAs will go on sale? I notice it's still not love in the app, would they not be getting tight on time now?

Could it be that the app doesn’t cover the UK? (as outside the EU)

Jamie2k9 · 17-01-2021 9:30pm

imfml wrote: »

Any word on when MAN TAs will go on sale? I notice it's still not love in the app, would they not be getting tight on time now?

They have not received approval from US Gov yet.

Normally its fine to put routes on sale without approval however not a good idea when your a new operator applying for routes.

donkey balls · 17-01-2021 10:30pm

I was asked in work since I worked in the airport (all 7 years ago) that if a family got a voucher as a refund do the same people booked on that particular flight have to fly when using the voucher?

joeysoap · 18-01-2021 1:09am

Afaik

1) with aer lingus - yes
2) Ryanair - no - anybody can us it

I could stand corrected.

L1011 · 18-01-2021 9:09am

Aer Lingus only requires the lead passenger, at least that's what they told me when asking about basically this situation

goingnowhere · 18-01-2021 10:49am

Vouchers are issued to the lead passenger, so any future booking with the voucher must be made by the lead passenger.

donkey balls · 18-01-2021 11:10am

Thanks guys will let the lad know latter on when he comes on shift.

Tenger · 27-01-2021 8:34pm

Probably a long shot but does anyone know the current deposition of the A330 fleet?

EWR went to the desert.
DAA/LAX were parked in Shannon, but I think I recall they ferried to Spain. (as did the A321ceo's)
I think EIK ferried to Spain as well.
Any idea where DUO is?

The 10 A332s seems be getting a flight every 10-14 days. Or did I miss some of those going to Spain too?

goingnowhere · 27-01-2021 9:46pm

Tenger wrote: »

Probably a long shot but does anyone know the current deposition of the A330 fleet?

EWR went to the desert.
DAA/LAX were parked in Shannon, but I think I recall they ferried to Spain. (as did the A321ceo's)
I think EIK ferried to Spain as well.
Any idea where DUO is?

The 10 A332s seems be getting a flight every 10-14 days. Or did I miss some of those going to Spain too?

EWR is in Arizona? scrapped/parted ?? (EWR was always leaving the fleet in 2020 so not a COVID impact)
DAA, EIK, CPH, CPG are in Spain
CPE, DUO are at Nimes in France
LAX is in Shannon

CPE/CPH/CPG were on the way out might have made it to 2022 but probably will never carry a passenger again.
With the LR's arriving I cannot see the A330-200 staying around

Nibs05 · 27-01-2021 10:03pm

GEY is also in Spain

Tenger · 28-01-2021 12:05am

goingnowhere wrote: »

......

CPE/CPH/CPG were on the way out might have made it to 2022 but probably will never carry a passenger again.
With the LR's arriving I cannot see the A330-200 staying around

I would agree on both points.
The A321LR/A333 mix is far more efficient that the A332/A333 mix.

I was crew when the A321s first arrived, lovely aircraft. Shame to see them go but at 22 years old, in storage during a massive downturn, with newer aircraft being delivered I see no future for them.

Noxegon · 28-01-2021 10:01am

Tenger wrote: »

I was crew when the A321s first arrived, lovely aircraft. Shame to see them go but at 22 years old, in storage during a massive downturn, with newer aircraft being delivered I see no future for them.

Were they used that much in recent times?

Since I started logging my flights (~2004) I have flown Aer Lingus 184 times. Just twelve of those were on the A321, and only one was in the last ten years.

Tenger · 28-01-2021 10:17am

Noxegon wrote: »

Were they used that much in recent times?

Since I started logging my flights (~2004) I have flown Aer Lingus 184 times. Just twelve of those were on the A321, and only one was in the last ten years.

They are certainly used. But I think they operated holiday routes over the last 5-6 years. Back in the early 00s they covered DUB-LHR and were a great asset yo the airline.

Not sure when they reduced from 6 to 3 (2012ish?) but since then they were 10% of of the s/h fleet. So no wonder they are rare to see.

goingnowhere · 28-01-2021 10:54am

312 flights with EI since 2010
A321 flight cycles certainly reduced in recent years, the focus has moved to longer distance bucket and spade ops. Flight cycles are pretty high but flight hours not so it is balancing out.

I went through a phase of ending up on CPE over and over again. Mainly on the LHR services in the olden days. They were purchased specifically for that. I've flown to CDG/SXF/AMS/FCO/LHR on a A321.

Typically they lived on the bucket and spade jobs and charters (always a A321 on the North Pole flights) but the seat map online was setup to allow a A321 to slot in anywhere as the missing seats at the A321 emergency exits are not present on the A320 seat map.

When you look at the economics when the A321 was ordered it was by miles the cheapest seat mile out there on short/medium haul.

joeysoap · 28-01-2021 5:13pm

I've had a few back from Faro and Tenerife. Nice aircraft and much nicer than the 319 which was awful (Compared to easyJet anyway)

HTCOne · 29-01-2021 2:05pm

joeysoap wrote: »

I've had a few back from Faro and Tenerife. Nice aircraft and much nicer than the 319 which was awful (Compared to easyJet anyway)

I’ve been told it depended where you sat in them, rows nearer the front had more legroom than those down the back, something to do with them having had business class seats when Iberia originally had them. Could be hogwash mind.

Jack1985 · 29-01-2021 2:15pm

HTCOne wrote: »

I’ve been told it depended were you sat in them, rows nearer the front had more legroom than those down the back, something to do with them having had business class seats when Iberia originally had them. Could be hogwash mind.

Nope entirely correct, the knees became more angled upward as you proceeded down the cabin

Other Iberia spec aircraft in addition to the 319's are the 320's EDS/EDP.

goingnowhere · 29-01-2021 2:23pm

Iberia never had them, EI picked up a cancelled or deferred order. The bathroom fittings are different as well

Leg room was certainly quite nice up front, not great down the back. I think EDP/EDS have been spaced out correctly now but still have the ricardo seats. The A319's are long gone. Used to be common sight in Belfast and also on the DUB-CPH flights back in the day

Noxegon · 29-01-2021 6:41pm

I got into a Twitter argument with EI back in the day after a flight on one of those – as I recall I complained about the awful legroom, and they pointed me towards SeatGuru...

kevinandrew · 29-01-2021 8:10pm

EI-FNJ is another one with a 'non-standard' cabin, if that's how it can be described.

It was with Vueling before joining Aer Lingus so has those Iberia/Vueling/Clickair slime line seats. I never had a problem with the legroom on board but do find the standard Aer Lingus seat much more comfortable, in fact the Aer Lingus short haul seat is probably one of the best in Europe with its adjustable headrest and generally thicker padding than most others.

No doubt they'll eventually be refitted with the IAG slim line standard but hopefully not for a few years yet!

Nibs05 · 29-01-2021 10:17pm

Speaking of cabins I remember EI-EZV and EI-EZW, they had the virgin seating with in seat audio controls, I think they were rather comfy.

Locker10a · 29-01-2021 10:51pm

Nibs05 wrote: »

Speaking of cabins I remember EI-EZV and EI-EZW, they had the virgin seating with in seat audio controls, I think they were rather comfy.

They were, I enjoyed my flights on those aircraft, the seats seemed huge, broad and chunky

Tenger · 29-01-2021 11:26pm

HTCOne wrote: »

I’ve been told it depended where you sat in them, rows nearer the front had more legroom than those down the back, something to do with them having had business class seats when Iberia originally had them. Could be hogwash mind.

Nope. I saw a pic years ago. I think the change was fro row 6 to row 7. It was a
discernible difference in the photo which was taken from the opposite aisle seat.

L1011 · 29-01-2021 11:33pm

Huge difference, but it wasn't due to a former J class seat - the front rows as-is *were* the J class seats, with the middle unsold just like Aerspace is; and basically every European short haul J except Aerspace on the A321N routes.

kevinandrew · 30-01-2021 12:47am

Judging by their current fleet, the Iberia A319s would have had a seat pitch of 31" for euro business class, plus the middle seat kept empty, and 28" for the remaining economy seats.

In total EC-KEV (which became EI-EPR) had 135 seats in an all economy layout, EI-EPR ended up with 144 during its life at Aer Lingus so 9 seats were added. It's likely a row was squeezed in down the back adding 6 seats and the remaining 3 were added to row 1 which was only half a row at Iberia due to their galley size.

The Iberia layout is pretty much still the same today so you can see where the additional seats were added for Aer Lingus and why it was so much tighter down the back; http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Iberia/Iberia_Airbus_A319.php

L1011 · 30-01-2021 12:51am

I used to go to LGW quite frequently back then, take an early out and the long since cancelled late back; LGW base was still open for cabin crew at least so I got to know a few of them. Always an A319.

If I got the seats down the back I'd be practically crippled by landing, they were that tight. 194cm / 6'3.5 tall; which isn't really *that* tall now, I'd hate to be even slightly taller and suffer it.

Jack1985 · 30-01-2021 1:15pm

L1011 wrote: »

I used to go to LGW quite frequently back then, take an early out and the long since cancelled late back; LGW base was still open for cabin crew at least so I got to know a few of them. Always an A319.

If I got the seats down the back I'd be practically crippled by landing, they were that tight. 194cm / 6'3.5 tall; which isn't really *that* tall now, I'd hate to be even slightly taller and suffer it.

An even nicer experience for the knees when the aircraft was hammered on to the runway on occasion.

I remember many moon's ago travelling on EZY from LGW to Zakynthos on an A319 being in the last row (felt even more cramped than the EI 319's), In an evac I'd have been classed as a Wheelchair Charlie.

imfml · 01-02-2021 1:50pm

It looks like EI staff feel it will need Government assistance to get to 2022 and are looking for support to send a message to politicians. If anyone uses Twitter here is a poll to show support for some aid.

https://twitter.com/croghansimon/status/1354918901092646915?s=21

Cookiemunster · 01-02-2021 3:22pm

As many have said on here previously. Until EI request aid they're not going to get any. As of yet they've not requested any aid.

Nijmegen · 01-02-2021 3:51pm

Be interesting to read IAGs report, but at Sept 30 they had €9.3bn in liquidity (of which €5bn was straight up cash). If EI isn't asking for aid it's because IAG reckon they don't need it yet and don't want another state backed equity/debt thing loaded on them. I think the question from some is more "Can we avoid cost base restructuring with Irish government assistance," which likewise might not be in IAGs interest. The airlines that survive the pandemic and thrive in the post-pandemic world are likely the ones who can successfully trade through and also take the opportunity to address their business model and cost base for the likely years ahead. State aid tends to come with major provisions around what you can and cannot do in that respect.

goingnowhere · 01-02-2021 5:24pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

Be interesting to read IAGs report, but at Sept 30 they had €9.3bn in liquidity (of which €5bn was straight up cash). If EI isn't asking for aid it's because IAG reckon they don't need it yet and don't want another state backed equity/debt thing loaded on them. I think the question from some is more "Can we avoid cost base restructuring with Irish government assistance," which likewise might not be in IAGs interest. The airlines that survive the pandemic and thrive in the post-pandemic world are likely the ones who can successfully trade through and also take the opportunity to address their business model and cost base for the likely years ahead. State aid tends to come with major provisions around what you can and cannot do in that respect.

Exactly, if you can trade through and not be lumped with political baggage go for it.

There will be a sliming down as fewer pilots/cabin crew required in the short/medium term once what is normal resumes as demand on business routes will be depressed and thats where the money was made.

EI's cost base was extremely good before this and on paper was improving and was the best in terms of ROI in IAG. The problem child is BA which is still living somewhat in legacy mode and not really sure what to do. BA will bleed badly owing to its emphasis on business travel.

Ryanair always a threat but O'Leary has a stack of MAX's on order (not clear if passengers will be lining up to fly them) he has to pay for and no way to offload his existing -800's as the market is awash with aircraft.

A321NEO will give EI a huge advantage on the TATL when things open up

It is both FR and EI's interest to keep clear but the game should be to push to help the DAA, so as to avoid any EU problems, zero landing fees for 2 years or something would be a help.

Tenger · 01-02-2021 11:41pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Exactly, if you can trade through and not be lumped with political baggage go for it.

There will be a sliming down as fewer pilots/cabin crew required in the short/medium term once what is normal resumes as demand on business routes will be depressed and thats where the money was made..........

EI have so far offered voluntary redundancy and career breaks to their staff.
I’m guessing that the lack of layoffs so far is connected to the company’s acceptance of the TWSS/EWSS scheme?

Nijmegen · 01-02-2021 11:51pm

Tenger wrote: »

EI have so far offered voluntary redundancy and career breaks to their staff.
I’m guessing that the lack of layoffs so far is connected to the company’s acceptance of the TWSS/EWSS scheme?

I was reading an interview in the business post with a pilot at EI who claims his earnings were down 50% over last year despite flying for example the PPE missions. The state supports are designed to keep people attached to their employment so there haven’t really been layoffs in the traditional sense, despite hundreds of thousands effectively off work. It’s having a free hand to do what you need to do afterward that’ll be the trick.

basill · 02-02-2021 1:30am

Its not a claim its reality. Also its greater than 50%. There was a 50% cut in gross salary but there are also variable elements of pay based on flying. If no flying then no variable pay.

Pat Dunne · 02-02-2021 4:01am

Nijmegen wrote: »

I was reading an interview in the business post with a pilot at EI who claims his earnings were down 50% over last year despite flying for example the PPE missions. The state supports are designed to keep people attached to their employment so there haven’t really been layoffs in the traditional sense, despite hundreds of thousands effectively off work. It’s having a free hand to do what you need to do afterward that’ll be the trick.

So rather than earning €100K* a year for a Airbus Type Rated Pilot. He/She is earning €50K plus a year.
My heart bleeds for them!

* https://www.aerlingus.com/careers/careers-in-the-air/direct-entry-pilots/#/tab-0-direct-entry-pilot-programme

basill wrote: »

Its not a claim its reality. Also its greater than 50%. There was a 50% cut in gross salary but there are also variable elements of pay based on flying. If no flying then no variable pay.

50% cut of what exactly?

cson · 02-02-2021 4:27am

Nijmegen wrote: »

Be interesting to read IAGs report, but at Sept 30 they had €9.3bn in liquidity (of which €5bn was straight up cash). If EI isn't asking for aid it's because IAG reckon they don't need it yet and don't want another state backed equity/debt thing loaded on them.

Bingo.

I think any outright support would require an equity concession, indeed the Government would be foolish if that wasn't a fundamental requirement.

Pat Dunne wrote: »

So rather than earning €100K* a year for a Airbus Type Rated Pilot. He/She is earning €50K plus a year.
My heart bleeds for them!

* https://www.aerlingus.com/careers/careers-in-the-air/direct-entry-pilots/#/tab-0-direct-entry-pilot-programme

50% cut of what exactly?

(1) That link shows 78.5k which includes 18k variable, so that's 60.5k basic.

(2) Do you realize the amount of debt most of these qualified pilots have taken on to get to this point?

(3) If you've built a life around a 6 figure income, its a massive impact to have that cut in half - what if BOI/AIB approved your mortgage on the basis of that income? Now you can't pay it through no fault of your own.

I don't doubt you're looking for a rise, posting something inflammatory like that in a forum which is frequented by the very person your heart bleeds for, but 50k is not a lot of money in Ireland these days. I'd link you COL indexes and housing costs but I doubt you'd have it in you to read.

Pat Dunne · 02-02-2021 12:34pm

cson wrote: »

(1) That link shows 78.5k which includes 18k variable, so that's 60.5k basic.

(2) Do you realize the amount of debt most of these qualified pilots have taken on to get to this point?

(3) If you've built a life around a 6 figure income, its a massive impact to have that cut in half - what if BOI/AIB approved your mortgage on the basis of that income? Now you can't pay it through no fault of your own.

I don't doubt you're looking for a rise, posting something inflammatory like that in a forum which is frequented by the very person your heart bleeds for, but 50k is not a lot of money in Ireland these days. I'd link you COL indexes and housing costs but I doubt you'd have it in you to read.

Again, I have no real sympathy.

They have a potential earning capacity over their career that far exceeds the average individual.
I have to say I enjoyed a good laugh at your comment of “building a life around a 6 figure income”. Ever hear of a rainy day? Well guess what, it’s currently lashing and that hefty 6 figure income should provide anyone with a half decent umbrella.

Your €50k remark caused me even further mirth, as the overwhelming majority of people in Ireland earn the average industrial wage of €37k and face COL and housing costs based on that figure.

However with over half a million people currently been forced to claim the Pandemic Unemployment Payment of €350 per week, getting by on that figure is causing genuine hardship for people from all walks of life.

Jack1985 · 02-02-2021 12:43pm

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Again, I have no real sympathy.

Ah jog on, purposely posting inflammatory statements in this thread looking blatantly for a rise behind your keyboard the big warrior you are.

Ever hear of a rainy day? Well guess what, it’s currently lashing and that hefty 6 figure income should provide anyone with a decent umbrella.

Yeah I've heard of rainy 12 months+ of 50% reduced income funds alright.:rolleyes:

Pat Dunne · 02-02-2021 12:55pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Ah jog on, purposely posting inflammatory statements in this thread looking blatantly for a rise behind your keyboard the big warrior you are.

Yeah I've heard of rainy 12 months+ of 50% reduced income funds alright.:rolleyes:

If reality is inflammatory to your mindset, so be it.
I’m sure the half a million plus, people on €350 per week, would be delighted to be earning “50% reduced income funds alright”. :rolleyes:

Locker10a · 02-02-2021 1:09pm

cson wrote: »

(2) Do you realize the amount of debt most of these qualified pilots have taken on to get to this point?

Didn’t EI pilots get offered a loan from the company to sort them out for this issue too

jucylucy · 02-02-2021 1:09pm

I have more sympathy for the cabin crew on a fraction of the wages who still haven’t been able to get their rightful social welfare entitlement as EI will not fill out their claim from correct ......since March last year!

Tenger · 02-02-2021 3:48pm

Settle down everyone. Lots of people from all walks of life are in trouble right no. The article was just used as an example, not to try to play a sympathy card.
No-one here is ignoring the plight of those on PUP/TWSS/EWSS over the last 10 months. An article about EI workers and their situation is quite suited yo this thread.

I personally would be screwed to have my income slashed by 50%. Even the most prudent saver would be hard pressed to have enough put away to cover a year.

Noxegon · 02-02-2021 3:54pm

I'm uneasy about some of the language I've seen in the petitions calling for government support for Aer Lingus.

Pre-pandemic there were 46 airlines serving Dublin Airport. That indicates that there's a market to be served, and that there will be again at some point.

Lots of businesses and people are struggling right now, and not just a privately-owned airline.

Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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