Journalism and cycling

Pinch Flat · 25-01-2019 10:00am

My incdent I reported to Gardai this week they asked if I had video footage - had my laptop with me and had just copied the video to the hard drive. They asked if I’d be prepared to pop it on a usb and give it to them as evidence If they decide to press charges

Corca Baiscinn · 25-01-2019 4:40pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

morning ireland are due to cover the galway cycle bus this morning - so some time in the next half hour, i assume.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1088708760091217920

There's video footage on twitter now too so hopefully some TV coverage as well. Despite the fact that it shouldn't be at all remarkable it would lift your spirits to see all those kids pedalling along in such a communal way, getting to school under their own steam, so it will be super for a wider audience to see it and even better if they arrange a special screening for Richard Bruton, Shane Ross and Joe McHugh!

jjpep · 25-01-2019 4:46pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

There's video footage on twitter now too so hopefully some TV coverage as well. Despite the fact that it shouldn't be at all remarkable it would lift your spirits to see all those kids pedalling along in such a communal way, getting to school under their own steam, so it will be super for a wider audience to see it and even better if they arrange a special screening for Richard Bruton, Shane Ross and Joe McHugh!

Yep, that's the thing. Kids (and their parents) feeling that it's safe to cycle to school should be ordinary, not extraordinary. The cycle bus is doing great work - hopefully it'll spur action among our politicians to make this kind of thing the norm, but without the need for kids to need adults to shepherd them.

Melodeon · 25-01-2019 7:46pm

Galway Cycle Bus item coming up now on RTE 1, Six One News.

25-01-2019 8:02pm

Thought that car that was turning left was a bit too keen to get going, rear marshal hadn't fully cleared the junction.

AndrewJRenko · 25-01-2019 8:42pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

it was one of those court sittings where loads of cases are called for mention. I happened to be sat beside the defendant so heard her entire conversation with her barrister.

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.

But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

mr spuckler · 25-01-2019 9:31pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.

But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

I know what you;re getting at but I can't imagine how it would - my evidence wouldn't and indeed couldn't have been in any way different owing to that conversation. I'd already given a written statement to the Garda before the charge was filed so any court evidence would essentially have been a re-iteration of that.

RobbieMD · 25-01-2019 9:54pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No criticism of yourself, but couldn't the earwigging have spoilt the whole case, if it had proceeded and you had to give evidence? It's a bit mad that these things are allowed happen, and you're not segregated in some way, but I know the Courts tend to be very short of space.

But what happens if the other party or their barrister says that 'this man may have overheard our consultation' or similar?

Often in a hearing the defence will request that all witnesses, except whoever is then actually giving evidence, remain outside the courtroom so as not to hear each other’s evidence.

I’ve seen the defence raise with the judge exactly what you’re talking about, the witness is then cross examined when in the box and the judge can afford it whatever weight he/she thinks.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 2:03pm

Uber's plan to deploy stationless e-bikes in Dublin has been rebuffed by officials
https://www.thejournal.ie/uber-stationless-bikes-2-4457359-Jan2019/

mr spuckler · 26-01-2019 3:35pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

Often in a hearing the defence will request that all witnesses, except whoever is then actually giving evidence, remain outside the courtroom so as not to hear each other’s evidence.

I’ve seen the defence raise with the judge exactly what you’re talking about, the witness is then cross examined when in the box and the judge can afford it whatever weight he/she thinks.

which sounds reasonable at a trial and I'd have expected that to be the case if we had been. we weren't at a trial.

BrianHenryIE · 27-01-2019 8:43pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

Uber's plan to deploy stationless e-bikes in Dublin has been rebuffed by officials
https://www.thejournal.ie/uber-stationless-bikes-2-4457359-Jan2019/

Owen Keegan wrote:

Based on the experience in other cities, the council is committed to a gradual approach to the development of stationless bikes in the city

I live in Sacramento now (and lived by a Dublin Bikes stand for five years) and they took a slow approach to allowing Jump bikes in the city, and it's really paid off. They're a huge success. The service agreement with the city means they're redistributed regularly, there are warnings if you lock them to anything but a bike stand, then fines for locking them outside the catchment area. There are incentives (free rides) for cycling bikes with low batteries to proper Jump racks and for cycling to areas of demand. They're $1 for 15 minutes but unemployed and students get their first 60 minutes/day for $5 and $30 for a year.

They could be great for Dublin, say going from town to Santry to get you up the long tedious hill.

New York has better incentives for their bike share, meaning people use it to get fit (drop off bike, jog to next bike, cycle to dock, repeat) and earn a little. This is a good 10 minute documentary on it: https://vimeo.com/284731660

CramCycle · 27-01-2019 9:02pm

That was highly entertaining, regrettably, I could see traits of myself in some of those interviewed (not just the T1 Diabetic). I like the fact that the main leader knows how odd his behaviour is, spoken like a true addict.

buffalo · 28-01-2019 8:54am

BrianHenryIE wrote: »

They're $1 for 15 minutes but unemployed and students get their first 60 minutes/day for $5 and $30.

Am I misreading something? Why do they charge the students and unemployed an extra $1 per hour?

Idleater · 28-01-2019 9:02am

buffalo wrote: »

Am I misreading something? Why do they charge the students and unemployed an extra $1 per hour?

Could be like the "special offer" 2litres family size for €2.49 or €0.99 for 1litre.

BrianHenryIE · 28-01-2019 9:58am

buffalo wrote: »

Am I misreading something? Why do they charge the students and unemployed an extra $1 per hour?

My bad. It’s $5/year and $30/year for unemployed/students giving 60 minutes/day before any extra charges.

mr spuckler · 28-01-2019 11:07am

for those not on Twitter, the Gardaí have been telling people over the weekend to take down videos showing license plates of offending vehicles, for "data protection" reasons.

covered in the Time Ireland edition here today. I'm not going to copy the whole article but interesting expert opinion offered...

Daragh O’Brien, managing director of Castlebridge, a privacy consultancy firm, said that a person would need to have access to the national vehicle database to identify a driver. “A reg number is not personal data,” he added.

also covered on Broadsheet

edit...I now see some of this has been touched on in the near misses thread also...

Tombo2001 · 28-01-2019 11:09am

mr spuckler wrote: »

for those not on Twitter, the Gardaí have been telling people over the weekend to take down videos showing license plates of offending vehicles, for "data protection" reasons.

covered in the Time Ireland edition here today. I'm not going to copy the whole article but interesting expert opinion offered...

also covered on Broadsheet

The obvious follow on from this would be that you could challenge your speed camera penalty points on data protection grounds.

RobbieMD · 28-01-2019 1:46pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

for those not on Twitter, the Gardaí have been telling people over the weekend to take down videos showing license plates of offending vehicles, for "data protection" reasons.

covered in the Time Ireland edition here today. I'm not going to copy the whole article but interesting expert opinion offered...

also covered on Broadsheet

edit...I now see some of this has been touched on in the near misses thread also...

Ciara Kelly on Newstalk talking about Gardai asking cyclists not to share pics of dangerous drivers/ parking on social media now....

Pinch Flat · 28-01-2019 2:49pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

Ciara Kelly on Newstalk talking about Gardai asking cyclists not to share pics of dangerous drivers/ parking on social media now....

Have they started talking about helmets, hi-vis, insurance and "road tax" yet?

Tell me how · 28-01-2019 3:00pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

Ciara Kelly on Newstalk talking about Gardai asking cyclists not to share pics of dangerous drivers/ parking on social media now....

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Have they started talking about helmets, hi-vis, insurance and "road tax" yet?

Turned in to a pretty good discussion. Ciara wasn't as anti-cyclist as many public commentators. Definitely was hearing points about the sense of feeling unsafe and the unsuitable quality/availability of cycle lanes.

The guy that is going around Dublin recording cyclists breaking lights and not riding in cycling lanes seemed fixated.

Duckjob · 28-01-2019 3:01pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Have they started talking about helmets, hi-vis, insurance and "road tax" yet?

No, but we had RLJ cyclists, cycling on footpaths, not using cycle lanes and people getting stuck behind country road mega-pelotons for 45 minutes.

Duckjob · 28-01-2019 3:12pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Turned in to a pretty good discussion. Ciara wasn't as anti-cyclist as many public commentators. Definitely was hearing points about the sense of feeling unsafe and the unsuitable quality/availability of cycle lanes.

The guy that is going around Dublin recording cyclists breaking lights and not riding in cycling lanes seemed fixated.

To be fair, Ciara Kelly was balanced enough I thought, although she gave an inordinate amount of airtime to the crank who spent his time standing on the side of the street filming cyclists on his phone. It was a pity she didnt challenge him to spend a bit of time videoing junctions for cars breaking red as he was clearly just determined to further his own anti-cyclist bias.

Chips Lovell · 28-01-2019 3:17pm

Duckjob wrote: »

...the crank who spent his time standing on the side of the street filming cyclists on his phone...

Rule 36

No matter what it is, there is at least one person out there who gets off on it.

check_six · 28-01-2019 4:43pm

Duckjob wrote: »

No, but we had RLJ cyclists, cycling on footpaths, not using cycle lanes and people getting stuck behind country road mega-pelotons for 45 minutes.

I wonder how far you would travel behind a "mega peleton" in 45 mins? 20-30km? Long stretch of road there with no opportunity to overtake!

Duckjob · 28-01-2019 5:48pm

check_six wrote: »

I wonder how far you would travel behind a "mega peleton" in 45 mins? 20-30km? Long stretch of road there with no opportunity to overtake!

If we take a guess of a 30kph average on the open road (which I would be inclined to say is conservative for that class of rider), that would be a 22.5km stretch of road.

I would love any of these type of complainers to be taken to task to actually provide the detail in these cases-

- where was the road/route they were travelling
- when/where did they get behind the peloton ?
- when/where did they pass it?

I have just the tiniest inkling that with these facts provided, and with the aid of Google Maps, pretty much all of these types of complaints would be revealed as complete fabricated sh*te

mr spuckler · 28-01-2019 6:35pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

for those not on Twitter, the Gardaí have been telling people over the weekend to take down videos showing license plates of offending vehicles, for "data protection" reasons.

covered in the Time Ireland edition here today. I'm not going to copy the whole article but interesting expert opinion offered...

also covered on Broadsheet

edit...I now see some of this has been touched on in the near misses thread also...

Irish Times now also running a piece on this here.

Garda Headquarters was unable to comment on Sunday night but said it would as soon as possible.

Eamonnator · 28-01-2019 6:39pm

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Rule 36

No matter what it is, there is at least one person out there who gets off on it.

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#36

The real rule #36

AndrewJRenko · 28-01-2019 6:40pm

It will be on the telly too

https://twitter.com/Tupp_Ed/status/1089928072084815872?s=19

Muahahaha · 28-01-2019 8:01pm

It was on the 6.1 news, they showed around 7 or 8 clips of close passes by drivers and then went on to show a Garda tweet saying not to post clips online and go report it instead, data protection given as the reason.

Hurrache · 28-01-2019 8:10pm

The Gardai backed down on their data protection excuses when providing a statement to RTE.

They're now citing that they believe there's an inheritant danger in posting videos to social media. Yup, they're more concerned with virtual danger as opposed to the danger caught on camera.

I found it amusing there was an ad for giving 1.5 metres when passing cyclists during the subsequent ad break.

28-01-2019 8:12pm

No mention of the same message for drivers? By virtue of numbers there are far, far more dashcam videos posted.

ED E · 28-01-2019 8:13pm

Gardai don't care about GDPR. Gardai don't care about social media faux-vigilantism.

They're worried about this

Garda accused of ‘embarrassing’ failure to enforce cycle lanes
I Bike Dublin says it found 491 instances of motorists parking in cycle lanes in a week

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-accused-of-embarrassing-failure-to-enforce-cycle-lanes-1.3333922

But if they wanna play that game the above is exactly what they'll get.

Muahahaha · 28-01-2019 8:20pm

Yeah find the GDPR excuse a bit nauseating myself. Posting footage of a car driving dangerously and doing a close pass on a cyclist does not identify who was behind the wheel, only the make/model/reg plate of the car.

In any case people should be reporting these incidents to the Gardai, posting it online only won't really improve anything

Seth Brundle · 28-01-2019 8:31pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case people should be reporting these incidents to the Gardai, posting it online only won't really improve anything

I think that's the issue.
Many people aren't bothering going to the gardai because they've learnt from experience that the gardai will not give it any amount of priority.

magicbastarder · 28-01-2019 8:33pm

maybe it's time for a #gardaididntcare hashtag.
specifically for incidents that the gardai won't deal with.

Muahahaha · 28-01-2019 9:39pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think that's the issue.
Many people aren't bothering going to the gardai because they've learnt from experience that the gardai will not give it any amount of priority.

yeah definitely seems to be a problem. As MB said maybe it is time for a co-ordinated campaign on non action from the Gardai to careless & dangerous driving

Corca Baiscinn · 28-01-2019 9:48pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe it's time for a #gardaididntcare hashtag.
specifically for incidents that the gardai won't deal with.

Apart from the "won't deal with" what David Ó Laighneáin seems to be saying on twitter & on that news clip and indeed people on the Near Miss thread here too is that the reporting is time-consuming and cumbersome, you have to provide your video on usb, have to go to station, only the original garda can give you an update and given the pattern of garda shift-work he/she can be impossible to get hold of' so many people give up reporting altogether. That was contrasted with the simplicity of uploading a clip directly to #WMPRHRD and other UK forces.

Couple that with reports of people being told by a garda "you could just go around the car" and it's no wonder people vent their frustration on SM where at least fellow cyclists will sympathise

ED E · 28-01-2019 10:28pm

Unless its pretty significant (near death experience) AGS won't act so nobody bothers. A huge proportion of the images posted are #FreeTheCycleLanes which is a minor violation that shouldn't require reporting each instance of. We're literally watching Garda RPU cars drive past them.

Some of them get it, but not many.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1082723312625700865

jjpep · 28-01-2019 10:29pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah definitely seems to be a problem. As MB said maybe it is time for a co-ordinated campaign on non action from the Gardai to careless & dangerous driving

Yep, fully support this. I'm sick of feeling like a sucker for following the rules and watching other people do stupid things and get away with it.

Ferris · 29-01-2019 12:25am

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

reporting is time-consuming and cumbersome, you have to provide your video on usb, have to go to station, only the original garda can give you an update and given the pattern of garda shift-work he/she can be impossible to get hold of' so many people give up reporting altogether.

Gave a statement that day on a close one pass that occurred on the 10th Jan, reported on the 16th, contacted by a Garda on Friday and statement given with a usb containing a vid today. Agreed the usb piece is a bit odd but overall it was relatively painless and the Gardaí involved were sound. Once the behavior is there it’s more likely that a less wasteful process could be implemented in future.

mr spuckler · 29-01-2019 9:37am

Ferris wrote: »

Gave a statement that day on a close one pass that occurred on the 10th Jan, reported on the 16th, contacted by a Garda on Friday and statement given with a usb containing a vid today. Agreed the usb piece is a bit odd but overall it was relatively painless and the Gardaí involved were sound. Once the behavior is there it’s more likely that a less wasteful process could be implemented in future.

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

buffalo · 29-01-2019 10:07am

mr spuckler wrote: »

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

Wouldn't restorative justice involve you, and therefore you'd have to accept it?

mr spuckler · 29-01-2019 10:15am

buffalo wrote: »

Wouldn't restorative justice involve you, and therefore you'd have to accept it?

you'd think so from the name, while I wasn't the victim I was the only witness / complainant. as I said the Garda had never heard of this approach for a driving case and I've certainly never heard anything since as a follow-up...
I think even though that's the name the barrister gave to it that it may be more of an education / corrective approach without the severity of an endorsement & conviction which would have automatically applied otherwise.

Duckjob · 29-01-2019 11:09am

mr spuckler wrote: »

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

mr spuckler · 29-01-2019 11:15am

Duckjob wrote: »

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

I fully agree and that's why I mentioned it. I've no doubt it'd have been more difficult if it was your average Garda.
he also mentioned that he doesn't & wouldn't cycle anymore because he feels it's not safe enough...

check_six · 29-01-2019 11:51am

Duckjob wrote: »

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

One can only imagine:
"I reported a bank heist in progress. Fortunately, the guard I reported it to was a big fan of buddy cop movies and had every episode of The Bill on VHS so they got right on it!"

Corca Baiscinn · 29-01-2019 8:59pm

Ferris wrote: »

Gave a statement that day on a close one pass that occurred on the 10th Jan, reported on the 16th, contacted by a Garda on Friday and statement given with a usb containing a vid today. Agreed the usb piece is a bit odd but overall it was relatively painless and the Gardaí involved were sound. Once the behavior is there it’s more likely that a less wasteful process could be implemented in future.

It's really great to hear that but from reading here and elsewhere it seems to depend very much on what garda you meet on the day as to whether you'll get a sympathetic hearing or not

Ray Bloody Purchase · 30-01-2019 3:16pm

Cyclists and Motorcyclists are advised;

Motorcyclists / Cyclists should not compromise their safety by their ‘need’ to travel in icy/snow conditions. Cancel your journey or take alternative transport.

Visibility is reduced in snowy conditions so cyclists should wear a Sam Browne Bandoleer belt or high visibility vest and ensure the lights on your bike are working correctly.
.
Remember other road users may not ‘expect’ you and could therefore comprise your safety

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/winter-ready-how-to-stay-safe-when-temperatures-plummet-37765460.html

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

Chips Lovell · 30-01-2019 3:18pm

Sigh. Sounds like it was written by the RSA.

....Oh wait, quelle surprise, it was written by them!

mr spuckler · 30-01-2019 3:28pm

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/winter-ready-how-to-stay-safe-when-temperatures-plummet-37765460.html

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

so at no point does it advise motorists to ensure their windows are fully clear of snow / frost to ensure maximum field of vision, not does it tell them to be extra vigilant for VRUs...

Journalism and cycling

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