Indian Caste system horrors

screamer · 21-05-2019 11:12pm

fryup wrote: »

just watched a programme on bbc 4 about classical indian music...strange that such a country with such a rich exotic culture can be so depraved at the same time

Too many people, life is cheap

the dark phantom · 22-05-2019 12:55am

Its a sad situation as they should be doing much better as a people, iv never meet an Indian or Pakistani that wasn't intelligent, the post saying life is cheap there sums it up.

Gimme A Pound · 22-05-2019 1:17am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Left silent as usual, but this is utterly despicable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48265387

Not seeing outcry from the right either, but I'm more concerned about the actual matter itself. Are you gonna come back to the thread you started?

jmayo · 22-05-2019 10:18am

Grayson wrote: »

Neither do muslims. It's different standards that are applied to each by the right wingers here.

I could trawl through newspapers and come up with plenty of horrific crimes that have been committed by hindu's in the UK. Acid attacks, burning women alive, honor killings etc. However they are not representative of the whole. Just as crimes committed by muslims aren't.

having said all that, I agree with your thoughts on the caste system and India in general. It's a country of a billion people with a huge range of beliefs and peoples. However there's definitely a nasty element there.

I am not going to argue about the honour killings, that seems to be a fact of life from that region and practiced across religions.
Also the sale of young girls into slavery is another sad thing from parts of India.

But my point was, and you damn well know it, that hindus aren't leaving a trail of destruction a mile long (Nice actually comes to mind straight away) and slaughtering innocent people from different religions, just because they are a different religion.

Neither have we had them preying on young girls in organised gangs.

Or at least as Accumulator so eloquently put they must be very good at avoiding detection if they do all these things.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I work and have worked with a fair number of Indians. Like all people some good some bad. What surprised me one day was while going to a meeting with one Indian women we bumped into a Indian guy on the other project. Always got on with him but this time the hello was very odd and only directed at me.

A few days later I noticed the guy not holding the door for the women as she was behind him. Lots of little petty things but nothing outright offensive. Did know the women well at the time.

Latter on I asked her did she know him and did they have some argument. Turned out it was because he was a higher caste and thought little of her simple existence. Another Indian guy joined and he was outwardly aggressive towards her. To the extent he was politely asked to leave or be fired.

Very strange.

Similar experience where Indian/Irish friend in college actually seemed to avoid an Indian student even though they worked in offices/labs right next to each other. Everyone else talked to the guy.

One day one of my Pakistani friends just said Brahmin and how someone from that caste would look down his nose at the other guy.

Actually it was interesting to listen to the Pakistani guys descriptions of Indians and indeed their former fellow citizens the Bangladeshis.
No love lost there.

YFlyer · 22-05-2019 11:36am

The Veda Caste system began to deteriorate with foreign rule.

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2019 11:41am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Left silent as usual, but this is utterly despicable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48265387

If you feel passionately about it, you could do something about it. Why would you rely on the left to do it for you? Maybe you have great faith in 'the left' to solve all the world's problems but I don't think that's a great strategy.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2019 11:44am

YFlyer wrote: »

The Veda Caste system began to deteriorate with foreign rule.

Really? I thought the british strengthened the caste system when they incorporated it into their administration under the Raj.

YFlyer · 22-05-2019 12:00pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Really? I thought the british strengthened the caste system when they incorporated it into their administration under the Raj.

They kept the varna system in and diluted it from the inside by incorporating their own western values.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2019 12:01pm

YFlyer wrote: »

They kept the varna system in and diluted it from the inside by incorporating their own western values.

Looks like it worked alright.....

Emme · 22-05-2019 12:09pm

It's horrific they way those people are treated. Not allowed to wear certain clothes, ride horses etc.

There was a link to this article at the side of the page, it is equally horrific. It is about how badly Africans were treated in Nazi Germany.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-48273570

gozunda · 22-05-2019 12:21pm

jasper100 wrote: »

Some monkey with "professor" before his name just got 250000€ to have his body recovered but the real hardship cases go ignored.

Says it all.

Does it? Whatever about the fukwitery of GFM appeals. Here an account of 3 climbers from India (and far from wealthy imo) - whose bodies were recovered from Everest and repatriated to their families - much of the cost being covered by the Bengali goverment.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/18/sports/everest-deaths.html

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 5:30pm

Perhaps India offers one of the brightest hopes within Asia.

New PM (Modi) comes from the OBC (Other backwards cast) and vowes to help India - for the people (and not for the establishment) with his landslide win.
The largest democracy in the world with 1.3bn still has issues, but is improving at gusto. Today sees the son of a poor tea salesman lead this democracy.

branie2 · 23-05-2019 5:48pm

Medieval, that's what it is

BrokenArrows · 23-05-2019 5:52pm

I knew a family who moved to London from India. They all legally changed their names when they got here as their surname was from a lower caste back home. They changed it to a higher caste so they wouldn't be looked down upon by other Indians they met in London.

You can change your name in India but you have to advertise it in the local papers. So you would never get away with it.

Crazy system.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 5:57pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

ISo you would never get away with it.

Crazy system.

But today shows you can still become PM and leader of 1.3bn people, yet derive from the OBC 'other backward cast' groupage.

Point is, it's not ideal, but is improving at speed (extreme poverty rates are very high, but also reducing quickly year-on-year).

If you look at Asia (nevermind the MiddleEast), you can find many much worse (non-democratic) states to address with concerns, way ahead of India.

steddyeddy · 23-05-2019 6:14pm

It fascinates me that caste discrimination goes on outside India TBH. In the UK they were thinking of making this form of discrimination illegal but in the end it ended up as an amendment to a law. Apparently Hindu organisations in the UK thought it was discrimination against Hinduism to legislate against this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38663143

Harry Palmr · 23-05-2019 6:23pm

At least you know where you are in the scheme of things.

Jimbob1977 · 23-05-2019 6:25pm

How can they tell each other's castes if they meet for the first time?

Could you pretend to be from a different caste?

Odhinn · 23-05-2019 6:30pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

How can they tell each other's castes if they meet for the first time?

Could you pretend to be from a different caste?

Name, address, and skin colour are used as indicators. You can pretend allright, but in some circumstances you'd be taking your life in your hands.

23-05-2019 6:51pm

Kevin Large Stockiness wrote: »

Perhaps India offers one of the brightest hopes within Asia.

New PM (Modi) comes from the OBC (Other backwards cast) and vowes to help India - for the people (and not for the establishment) with his landslide win.

Shame about all of that militant hindu-nationalism that is inflaming sectarian massacres, mind you.

The caste system is a tangled web of sociology and economics -- and not of law, in the sense that it is a crime to discriminate based on caste. Celebrating Modi's re-election as heralding a bright future for the poor and the downtrodden, is a bit like celebrating the election of Obama as benefitting African-Americans, if Obama had been blaming their woes on the jews.

Modi's re-election is a victory only for a nasty type of nationalism, whose bloody little tentacles are creeping into sections of society that have nothing to believe in except a Messiah, and illusions of some unrealized greatness which their saviour will deliver.

Just like Trump, or Le Pen, or Farage. He's a nasty little wheeler-dealer who promises the world to the poor by making scapegoats of minorities. These people do nothing except stir-up hatred and, eventually, violence among the most disadvantaged people in their societies.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 7:03pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Shame about all of that militant hindu-nationalism that is inflaming sectarian massacres, mind you.

The caste system is a tangled web of sociology and economics -- and not of law, in the sense that it is a crime to discriminate based on caste. Celebrating Modi's re-election as heralding a bright future for the poor and the downtrodden, is a bit like celebrating the election of Obama as benefitting African-Americans, if Obama had been blaming their woes on the jews.

Modi's re-election is a victory only for a nasty type of nationalism, whose bloody little tentacles are creeping into sections of society that have nothing to believe in except a Messiah, and illusions of some unrealized greatness which their saviour will deliver.

Just like Trump, or Le Pen, or Farage. He's a nasty little wheeler-dealer who promises the world to the poor by making scapegoats of minorities. These people do nothing except stir-up hatred and, eventually, violence among the most disadvantaged people in their societies.

Somewhat in jest, but do try to familiarise yourself with the bookshelves regarding the power of positive thinking :pac:

Yes it has problems, can't say it's not improving esp in regards to attempts to remove extreme poverty. The landslide election of an OBC member this week is another step forward for the world's largest democracy.

If someone wanted to poke holes in states across Asia or the Middle East, and in much more advanced, less/same populus and prosperous states. Well there's a whole selection box availble to choose from.

23-05-2019 7:33pm

Kevin Large Stockiness wrote: »

Somewhat in jest, but do try to familiarise yourself with the bookshelves regarding the power of positive thinking :pac:

Yes it has problems, can't say it's not improving esp in regards to attempts to remove extreme poverty. The landslide election of an OBC member this week is another step forward for the world's largest democracy.

But Modi's caste, as far as I know, is what we would refer to as being working class, or maybe even petit bourgeois. The overwhelming majority of Indians either belong to Modi's class, or that which used to belong to the Dalit, 'The Untouchables'.

If someone from the latter classification were to rise to such an office in Indian politics, it would surely be a miracle (I don't know if miracles exist in Hinduism, but doubtfully in India, and certainly not in this instance)

Sorry for the pessimism. As Skinner once remarked to Bart, who was filling Skinner's pants with cats and dynamite "This isn't going to end well".

Ipso · 23-05-2019 8:22pm

The Cagots of France and Spain are interesting, they were treated almost like it was a caste system. There is also a similar type group in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

Ipso · 23-05-2019 8:23pm

A Touch Of Class wrote: »

Man I'm glad to live in Ireland.

Where we are blessed to live with our property developer betters.

23-05-2019 9:15pm

A Touch Of Class wrote: »

Man I'm glad to live in Ireland.

Don't you think we have our own version here?

We have our own version of the Untouchables. And I'm not talking about untouch-ability in terms of the law.

Travellers are indeed an extreme example, but the Irish political landscape is heavily stratified in terms of social class -- even though it's not as extreme as in India.

The same goes for almost all European countries, and the USA.

Phileas Frog · 23-05-2019 9:22pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

So its Kingstown for Dun Laoghaire and Queenstown for Cork with you so? Cop on.

I doubt he's that old.

steddyeddy · 23-05-2019 9:30pm

Ipso wrote: »

The Cagots of France and Spain are interesting, they were treated almost like it was a caste system. There is also a similar type group in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

I find the Cagots fascinating. There are still some parts of France and Spain where the name Cagot is a dirty word.

uck51js9zml2yt · 23-05-2019 9:38pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

Very common.
Was in India a few years ago. I saw the places tourists just don't go. Absolutely filthy country.
Huge poverty everywhere. It says it all when a cow is of more importance than a human being.

Gimme A Pound · 24-05-2019 12:51am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Don't you think we have our own version here?

We don't, and it's safe to assume that that poster meant they're glad that they live here because no matter what problems Ireland has (and it does have problems) there is nothing even remotely like what this thread is about. We don't have our own version here of the brutality that is the caste system, whatsoever. It is of course a much easier place to live in.

Travellers are not brutalised like the "lower" orders of the caste system (nor should they be). They have numerous state supports, and many members of their community are the ones who do the intimidating - and they choose to live in communities segregated from the rest of society.

I know people discriminate against them (the reasons are more complex than just "They're travellers") but it's still not remotely like what people at the bottom of the caste system endure.

gozunda · 24-05-2019 1:08am

Incredible that the caste system although outlawed still results in such barbarity ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43605550

mynamejeff · 24-05-2019 4:55am

Bobblehats wrote: »

what is he even doing ?

pissing ? pooing ? wacking off ?

AngryHippie · 24-05-2019 5:57am

mynamejeff wrote: »

what is he even doing ?

pissing ? pooing ? wacking off ?

Trifecta for the win

Indian Caste system horrors

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