Best Career : Employment rate and Pay

AndrewJRenko · 05-07-2020 10:22pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Don't forget the 16 hours work week.

You seem to be confused between 'work' and 'classroom teaching'.

addaword · 06-07-2020 8:36am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You seem to be confused between 'work' and 'classroom teaching'.

He is not. For the remuneration, security and pension, teachers and lecturers have it cushy in both departments.

Tom Dunne · 06-07-2020 9:14am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You seem to be confused between 'work' and 'classroom teaching'.

20 years in Higher Education would suggest otherwise.

Kamu · 06-07-2020 9:16am

addaword wrote: »

He is not. For the remuneration, security and pension, teachers and lecturers have it cushy in both departments.

Yes, nice little perks, but to say they only 'work' 16 hours a week is disingenuous.

They know full well that lecture hours may only be timetabled in as 16 hours a week, however that's not all the job entails.

Case in point, I did a summer internship at my old college where I helped my professor in the lab for 6 weeks. Yes, during his 'holidays' he was in college in the lab getting test results done for a peer-reviewed article he published later that year. If he didn't get that article published that year, he risked losing his funding.

Great holiday for him, and I'm amazed all it took was 16 hours a week....

History Queen · 06-07-2020 1:28pm

addaword wrote: »

He is not. For the remuneration, security and pension, teachers and lecturers have it cushy in both departments.

Quantify the pension teachers get if hired since 2013 please? Post 2011 pay scales (allowing for the fact that most positions are now advertised as less than full hours) mean many teachers hired since then earn less than 500 euro per week, some substantially less.You are still spouting the same ill informed nonsense. Back up your points with facts. How much contact time does the average teacher in Ireland have compared to counterparts in Europe? Cushy number my eye, you haven't a clue. Job security is a huge bonus when u get it, as are the mostly family friendly working hours. 2 definite perks. But cushy number it is not.

AndrewJRenko · 06-07-2020 5:11pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

20 years in Higher Education would suggest otherwise.

So did you never prepare for classes, mark assignments, prepare and mark exams, peer review papers etc?

Treppen · 06-07-2020 5:54pm

addaword wrote: »

He is not. For the remuneration, security and pension, teachers and lecturers have it cushy in both departments.

Why what's the pension like?

skooterblue2 · 06-07-2020 7:01pm

Treppen wrote: »

Why what's the pension like?

Forget the job pension, go look after your own investments and private pension if you are planning on living after 65.

AndrewJRenko · 06-07-2020 7:03pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Forget the job pension, go look after your own investments and private pension if you are planning on living after 65.

Not an option for anyone in the public sector

Tom Dunne · 06-07-2020 7:18pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So did you never prepare for classes, mark assignments, prepare and mark exams, peer review papers etc?

Yes, on all fronts. (Presume the 'never' above is a typo for 'ever').

In addition to completing my PhD, in addition to other duties.

HerrKuehn · 07-07-2020 8:29am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Not an option for anyone in the public sector

Get your union to push to be allowed opt out of the single public sector pension scheme. I suspect very few will take the option if it was available.

addaword · 07-07-2020 8:37am

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Get your union to push to be allowed opt out of the single public sector pension scheme. I suspect very few will take the option if it was available.

Andrew Renko does not understand the public service pension of 18 months pay tax free lump sum on retirement and pension of half pay is a hell of a lot better than the pathetic pension most people in the private sector have.

07-07-2020 8:49am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Forget the job pension, go look after your own investments and private pension if you are planning on living after 65.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Not an option for anyone in the public sector

Investments and an additional pension (AVC) aren't an option? Why?

Kamu · 07-07-2020 9:00am

addaword wrote: »

Andrew Renko does not understand the public service pension of 18 months pay tax free lump sum on retirement and pension of half pay is a hell of a lot better than the pathetic pension most people in the private sector have.

And that pension is for anyone who started pre-95, which was 25 years ago. Anyone who started after that time will not be getting the pension you describe.

Kamu · 07-07-2020 9:02am

Augeo wrote: »

Investments and an additional pension (AVC) aren't an option? Why?

He means that, in response to the previous poster saying to look after our own investments, as a public servant we have no option but to pay into our public service pension, and as such, if we are to look into AVC's that will be on top of what we already pay into a pension.

As you well know.

Treppen · 07-07-2020 9:11am

addaword wrote: »

Andrew Renko does not understand the public service pension of 18 months pay tax free lump sum on retirement and pension of half pay is a hell of a lot better than the pathetic pension most people in the private sector have.

Why what's your pension like?

07-07-2020 9:15am

addaword wrote: »

Andrew Renko does not understand the public service pension of 18 months pay tax free lump sum on retirement and pension of half pay is a hell of a lot better than the pathetic pension most people in the private sector have.

The private sector needs to educate themselves to the merit of pension savings.
Anyone ending up with a pathetic pension relative to their wages is after being negligent IMO.

HerrKuehn · 07-07-2020 9:26am

Augeo wrote: »

The private sector needs to educate themselves to the merit of pension savings.
Anyone ending up with a pathetic pension relative to their wages is after being negligent IMO.

That is true. Also any comparison of private sector to public sector pay should take into account the true value of the public sector pension. Not like the last benchmarking exercise.

Blondini · 07-07-2020 9:50am

addaword wrote: »

Andrew Renko does not understand the public service pension of 18 months pay tax free lump sum on retirement and pension of half pay is a hell of a lot better than the pathetic pension most people in the private sector have.

How do I join this this amazing freemasons society?

Must be some sort of big secretive club only available to the ...

Oh hold on, here it is : publicjobs.ie

Knock yourself out.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 11:41am

HerrKuehn wrote: »

That is true. Also any comparison of private sector to public sector pay should take into account the true value of the public sector pension. Not like the last benchmarking exercise.

And should also take into account all the benefits available in the private sector, like free disability insurance, stock options, stock purchase schemes, employee purchases, Xmas parties and other junkets etc.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 11:42am

Augeo wrote: »

Investments and an additional pension (AVC) aren't an option? Why?

There is no option to opt out of public service pension schemes.

07-07-2020 11:44am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And should also take into account all the benefits available in the private sector, like free disability insurance, stock options, stock purchase schemes, employee purchases, Xmas parties and other junkets etc.

Not many van drivers, retail workers, builders, trades folk get any of that to be fair.

A meal out and a few drinks at Christmas isn't exactly pocket lining.

What's free disability insurance?

07-07-2020 11:44am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And should also take into account all the benefits available in the private sector, like free disability insurance, stock options, stock purchase schemes, employee purchases, Xmas parties and other junkets etc.

If they applied yes, of course. But PS pensions are ubiquitous whereas most of the above are nowhere near as prevalent. What even is disability insurance?!?

07-07-2020 11:46am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is no option to opt out of public service pension schemes.

True, but you can still invest your wages like anyone else can and you can also avail of tax relief on AVCs.

You are hardly suggesting you want to opt out of the public service pension are you?

07-07-2020 11:47am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is no option to opt out of public service pension schemes.

Do you know what AVCs are?

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 11:52am

Augeo wrote: »

Not many van drivers, retail workers, builders, trades folk get any of that to be fair.

A meal out and a few drinks at Christmas isn't exactly pocket lining.

What's free disability insurance?

No, those sectors often have other benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses.

Free disability insurance is fairly standard in multinationals, so if you do find yourself facing a permanent disability that stops you from working, you are covered with a partial salary for life.

Public servants pay for this cover (around 1% of salary) or risk life in penury on disability allowance. See Oracle for example.

https://www.oracle.com/ie/corporate/careers/benefits/

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 11:55am

Augeo wrote: »

True, but you can still invest your wages like anyone else can and you can also avail of tax relief on AVCs.

You are hardly suggesting you want to opt out of the public service pension are you?

The post that I responded to was ; "Forget the job pension, go look after your own investments and private pension if you are planning on living after 65.".

This is not an option for public sector staff. You can't opt out of the pension and choose to look after your own investments.

07-07-2020 11:55am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, those sectors often have other benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses.

Free disability insurance is fairly standard in multinationals, so if you do find yourself facing a permanent disability that stops you from working, you are covered with a partial salary for life.

Public servants pay for this cover (around 1% of salary) or risk life in penury on disability allowance. See Oracle for example.

https://www.oracle.com/ie/corporate/careers/benefits/

I'd have known that as Permanent Health Insurance. Very expense, not all employees in MNs would have it. Mostly senior staff as part of a package.

07-07-2020 12:03pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, those sectors often have other benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses.

Free disability insurance is fairly standard in multinationals, so if you do find yourself facing a permanent disability that stops you from working, you are covered with a partial salary for life.

Public servants pay for this cover (around 1% of salary) or risk life in penury on disability allowance. See Oracle for example.

https://www.oracle.com/ie/corporate/careers/benefits/

If you reckon van drivers & retail workers have benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses and the public service pension is holding you back why don't you throw your CV into Dunnes/SuperValu/Argos etc and get your piece of the pie?

A job in the public service doesn't have to be for life

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they applied yes, of course. But PS pensions are ubiquitous whereas most of the above are nowhere near as prevalent. What even is disability insurance?!?

PS pensions aren't ubiquitous. Lots of entry level staff, particularly women who had family duties, end up with little or no occupational pension, despite having paid mandatory deductions throughout their career.

07-07-2020 12:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

..................

Free disability insurance is fairly standard in multinationals, so if you do find yourself facing a permanent disability that stops you from working, you are covered with a partial salary for life............

There's nothing free in the private sector, it's part of the package, multinationals don't decide on a remuneration package and then throw in some "free" stuff on top.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd have known that as Permanent Health Insurance. Very expense, not all employees in MNs would have it. Mostly senior staff as part of a package.

Not in my experience. In fact, if they restrict it to senior staff, I think that triggers BIK for recipients.

If you look at glassdoor and payscale.com, you will see it listed as a benefit for Microsoft, LinkedIn, IBM, GSK, J&J and many more.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:10pm

Augeo wrote: »

If you reckon van drivers & retail workers have benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses and the public service pension is holding you back why don't you throw your CV into Dunnes/SuperValu/Argos etc and get your piece of the pie?

A job in the public service doesn't have to be for life

I don't like parking on footpaths and cycle lanes, so it's probably not the life for me, thanks.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:10pm

Augeo wrote: »

There's nothing free in the private sector, it's part of the package, multinationals don't decide on a remuneration package and then throw in some "free" stuff on top.

Just like the public sector then.

07-07-2020 12:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

........... In fact, if they restrict it to senior staff, I think that triggers BIK for recipients.............

I doubt that's true..........

Employer contributions

Your employer may contribute to an approved scheme on your behalf. You must pay USC on these contributions.

PAYE and PRSI does not apply where the combined contribution (employee and employer) does not exceed 10% of the employee's income. Any excess over 10% should be put through the payroll and PAYE and PRSI paid on that amount.

Where the premiums are for an unapproved policy or scheme, the premiums paid by the employer are taxable as Benefit in Kind (BIK).

07-07-2020 12:11pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

PS pensions aren't ubiquitous. Lots of entry level staff, particularly women who had family duties, end up with little or no occupational pension, despite having paid mandatory deductions throughout their career.

People that pay mandatory deductions will have a pension.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People that pay mandatory deductions will have a pension.

Depends on their career average earnings.

07-07-2020 12:12pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, those sectors often have other benefits like under the table cash payments and bonuses.

Free disability insurance is fairly standard in multinationals, so if you do find yourself facing a permanent disability that stops you from working, you are covered with a partial salary for life.

Public servants pay for this cover (around 1% of salary) or risk life in penury on disability allowance. See Oracle for example.

https://www.oracle.com/ie/corporate/careers/benefits/

Augeo wrote: »

There's nothing free in the private sector, it's part of the package, multinationals don't decide on a remuneration package and then throw in some "free" stuff on top.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just like the public sector then.

Well, you're the one reckoning there is free stuff in the private sector, free and fairly standard was how you described it

07-07-2020 12:14pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Depends on their career average earnings.

But, they will have a pension. You cannot take money off someone for as a pension contribution and then don't give the benefit.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »
But, they will have a pension. You cannot take money off someone for as a pension contribution and then don't give the benefit.

You absolutely can - public sector pension deductions are made on every payslip - totally independent of any decision on pension payments.

dreamers75 · 07-07-2020 12:17pm

Board member of a chariity.

07-07-2020 12:19pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You absolutely can - public sector pension deductions are made on every payslip - totally independent of any decision on pension payments.

I see the deductions on my wife's payslip.

Can you post up back up to the claim that paying pension payments does not entitle a pension?

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:22pm

Augeo wrote: »

Well, you're the one reckoning there is free stuff in the private sector, free and fairly standard was how you described it

Because it is a free benefit and is fairly standard in the multinational sector, as detailed in the examples above.

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:27pm

Augeo wrote: »

I doubt that's true..........

Employer contributions

Your employer may contribute to an approved scheme on your behalf. You must pay USC on these contributions.

PAYE and PRSI does not apply where the combined contribution (employee and employer) does not exceed 10% of the employee's income. Any excess over 10% should be put through the payroll and PAYE and PRSI paid on that amount.

Where the premiums are for an unapproved policy or scheme, the premiums paid by the employer are taxable as Benefit in Kind (BIK).

You might be right, I was mixing it up with free or subsidised canteens, which must be made available to all staff to avoid BIK.

Thanks for reminding me - that's another benefit available to many private sector staff but not to public servants.

07-07-2020 12:33pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

.......
Thanks for reminding me - that's another benefit available to many private sector staff but not to public servants.

Subsidised canteens in hospitals afaik

That's a benefit available to many public servants surely.

Brian201888 · 07-07-2020 12:37pm

****ing hell Renko, another thread derailed with this nonsense. Take it somewhere else you bore.

Stheno · 07-07-2020 12:49pm

mod - Everybody, quite the sniping immediately

otherwise there will be cards

AndrewJRenko · 07-07-2020 12:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see the deductions on my wife's payslip.

Can you post up back up to the claim that paying pension payments does not entitle a pension?

If you check Appendix B Table 1, you will see the small but significant percentage of public sector staff with no pensions, much worse for women than men, as I suggested
https://aran.library.nuigalway.ie/bitstream/handle/10379/3205/Older_Women_Workers_report_Aine.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

07-07-2020 1:46pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If you check Appendix B Table 1, you will see the small but significant percentage of public sector staff with no pensions, much worse for women than men, as I suggested
https://aran.library.nuigalway.ie/bitstream/handle/10379/3205/Older_Women_Workers_report_Aine.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

I'm looking at on a phone, but where does it say they are public sector? There are those in healthcare referenced for example but they could be private sector. It doest state that these employees have paid into a pension scheme, but are not getting one.

07-07-2020 1:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm looking at on a phone, but where does it say they are public sector?.........

It's across the board.
I'm struggling to see the relevance of it truth be told.

Best Career : Employment rate and Pay

Comments