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Bullying and Harassment in the Workplace

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  • 10-11-2017 6:57pm
    #1
    Teacher2017
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    With all that's being reported in the media at the minute in relation to Bullying and Harassment, I would be interested in hearing the experience of other teachers on the issue.
    Our school is currently experiencing horrendous bullying and harassment at the hands of a newly appointed principal.


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    #2
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Get on to the union asap. The last thing you want when dealing with alleged bullying is for either of the directly affected/involved parties to be involved in trying to resolve it.


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    #3
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Having recently left a school where bullying behaviour was my main drive to get out I would say DOCUMENT everything.


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    #4
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    With all that's being reported in the media at the minute in relation to Bullying and Harassment, I would be interested in hearing the experience of other teachers on the issue.
    Our school is currently experiencing horrendous bullying and harassment at the hands of a newly appointed principal.

    Our local school went through this a few years ago, I have a cousin teaches there, she said she had no probs, but some other teachers had a problem with it as a new regime, upsetting the applecart so to speak, the routine was changed, teachers made to change classes and such, performances analyzed, then the bullying accusations started.
    7 yrs on and the principal is still in place, everything running smoothly.
    The principal got the job from another school.
    Not saying this is the case in your situation, but jealousy can cause lots of probs too.


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    #5
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Exactly what is happening?


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    #6
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    Unfortunately the Union are FCUK all good (or perhaps its the actual officer dealing with the case that was at fault),when it comes to assisting the teacher(s) that is /are being bullied.The advice was follow procedure,fill in grievance forms etc,etc,which were a fat lot of good when nothing happened.The perpetrator got a more senior Union official to counteract the procedures being taken,the ETB were running scared of this and kicked the can down the road with Mediation (sh1t) which benefited no one.(From an ETB point of view it ticked boxes,that was them covered!),and the rest of us could just f off for our troubles.Natural wastage sorted the problem in the end but not before some careers were totally destroyed with no come back


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    #7
    Teacher2017
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Teacher2017


    Believe me, this is not a case of the new principal "upsetting the applecart" or jealousy. We have a very good hard working staff for the most part.

    Behaviours include hostile bullying and threatening behaviour. Shouting at staff, making threats, humiliating staff and absolutely no back up when it comes to discipline. Everything falls back on the teacher. This is the case for the majority of teachers. There is a small minority that the Principal has formed an allegiance with and those teachers do not have to put up with any of the above and have hours off their timetables. There have also been incidents of extremely inappropriate sexual comments made to some female memebers of staff.
    There have been grievances filed and the union are involved, albeit at a very slow pace. The behaviour has not changed and the working conditions are terrible as a result.


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    #8
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    Believe me, this is not a case of the new principal "upsetting the applecart" or jealousy. We have a very good hard working staff for the most part.

    Behaviours include hostile bullying and threatening behaviour. Shouting at staff, making threats, humiliating staff and absolutely no back up when it comes to discipline. Everything falls back on the teacher. This is the case for the majority of teachers. There is a small minority that the Principal has formed an allegiance with and those teachers do not have to put up with any of the above and have hours off their timetables. There have also been incidents of extremely inappropriate sexual comments made to some female memebers of staff.
    There have been grievances filed and the union are involved, albeit at a very slow pace. The behaviour has not changed and the working conditions are terrible as a result.

    Inappropriate sexual comments should upgrade any grievance immediately. Send a letter to the BoM and/or call the chairman.


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    #9
    Teacher2017
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Teacher2017


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Inappropriate sexual comments should upgrade any grievance immediately. Send a letter to the BoM and/or call the chairman.

    The ETB are aware of these comments. They just told staff to follow procedures such as a grievance.


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    #10
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    The ETB are aware of these comments. They just told staff to follow procedures such as a grievance.

    Is it possible the ETB are looking for rope to hang him/her? Is there a history in other centres?

    Flood your Stage III meetings with complaints. Send each one singly, not as a joint submission. Make your centre such a PITA for the ETB that they have to do something.

    Use our old friends the highly esteemed and hugely valuable Teaching Council for one of their new 'fitness to teach' sideshows.


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    #11
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    The ETB are aware of these comments. They just told staff to follow procedures such as a grievance.

    ETB. Well there you go. More chance than not the principal will get a promotion or a side ways move anyway if the complaint is even dealt with. I wish you the best of luck but don't hold any hope for you. ETB is politics, politics, politics and to get a principalship you need a few connections.


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    #12
    James Nelson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭James Nelson


    don't think that complaints will make any difference


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    #13
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    Believe me, this is not a case of the new principal "upsetting the applecart" or jealousy. We have a very good hard working staff for the most part.

    Behaviours include hostile bullying and threatening behaviour. Shouting at staff, making threats, humiliating staff and absolutely no back up when it comes to discipline. Everything falls back on the teacher. This is the case for the majority of teachers. There is a small minority that the Principal has formed an allegiance with and those teachers do not have to put up with any of the above and have hours off their timetables. There have also been incidents of extremely inappropriate sexual comments made to some female memebers of staff.
    There have been grievances filed and the union are involved, albeit at a very slow pace. The behaviour has not changed and the working conditions are terrible as a result.

    Simple, get one touch audio record app, every time principal engages in conversation say"sorry ill put my phone on silent" (in reality you activate App) . Totally legal to record without consent, just ask Garda McCabe.


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    #14
    Icsics
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Icsics


    I could have written your post OP. We also found the grievance procedures drawn out & ultimately ineffective. But the union likes to tie everyone into this outdated procedure. And as the Principal is also in the union there is a huge conflict of interest, in ASTI the Principals industrial relations office is the deputy general secretary!!
    You need to get like minded people together & write to the Board, send in a letter for every meeting with specific details. This eventually worked out for us.
    But while it was going on the school was a toxic workplace & I don't say that likely.


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    #15
    Teacher2017
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Teacher2017


    Icsics wrote: »
    I could have written your post OP. We also found the grievance procedures drawn out & ultimately ineffective. But the union likes to tie everyone into this outdated procedure. And as the Principal is also in the union there is a huge conflict of interest, in ASTI the Principals industrial relations office is the deputy general secretary!!
    You need to get like minded people together & write to the Board, send in a letter for every meeting with specific details. This eventually worked out for us.
    But while it was going on the school was a toxic workplace & I don't say that likely.

    Thank you Icsics. When you say write to the board, what board do you mean?


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    #16
    Icsics
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Icsics


    Teacher2017 wrote: »
    Thank you Icsics. When you say write to the board, what board do you mean?

    The Board of Management. You will need a strong cohort to take a stand, not everyone will, but you need to include as many as you can in letters to the BOM.


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    #17
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Icsics wrote: »
    The Board of Management. You will need a strong cohort to take a stand, not everyone will, but you need to include as many as you can in letters to the BOM.
    And make sure you have the teacher nominee on the Board onside before the board meeting.


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    #18
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    It is important to use grievance procedure as even when it runs on and on it keeps the Principal in check. It's very hard to move a principal so just keep procedure after procedure rolling on and on. I agree with documenting it all. I personally have never been bullied by a principal but have friends who experienced it . They found asti pretty poor but the procedures kept principals in check. I would also take personal legal advice.


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    #19
    juneg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭juneg


    MrJones1973 wrote: »
    It is important to use grievance procedure as even when it runs on and on it keeps the Principal in check. It's very hard to move a principal so just keep procedure after procedure rolling on and on. I agree with documenting it all. I personally have never been bullied by a principal but have friends who experienced it . They found asti pretty poor but the procedures kept principals in check. I would also take personal legal advice.

    Hard to move a principal? Sure didnt he get promoted to another school there! You'd hear of right nutters applying for principalships with presumably fabulous references seeing as they get jobs out of their old schools. Speaking from experience by the way...

    I'd say ye should get him on the sexual comments though, thats a hot topic at the moment, sex pests are being outed everywhere..


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    #20
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    juneg wrote: »
    Hard to move a principal? Sure didnt he get promoted to another school there! You'd hear of right nutters applying for principalships with presumably fabulous references seeing as they get jobs out of their old schools. Speaking from experience by the way...

    I'd say ye should get him on the sexual comments though, thats a hot topic at the moment, sex pests are being outed everywhere..

    In Education in General you rarely hear of anybody being fired and the vast majority of Principals stay in situ right up to retirement and despite years even decades of intimidation. Yes ,the times are changing but I have seen no real push for Mgt accountability. It needs a strong BOM and they rarely exist.


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    #21
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    MrJones1973 wrote: »
    In Education in General you rarely hear of anybody being fired and the vast majority of Principals stay in situ right up to retirement and despite years even decades of intimidation. Yes ,the times are changing but I have seen no real push for Mgt accountability. It needs a strong BOM and they rarely exist.

    You can see why the make-up of BOMs needs to be looked at esp. after Michael Colgan and his running of the BOM.


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    #22
    DK man
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭DK man


    Very similar issues in my school. I'm personally very disappointed with the tui union. Union seem to have been bought off as rep is very cosy with ce and at times you'd wonder who is supposed to protect - support
    They don't mind the simple stuff but seem to run when there are big issues like you have described. I think that in situations like you have described it would possibly be much more productive simply booking an appointment with a solicitor who specialises in employment law.
    I know in my own case staff are leaving / moving school or early retirement as the intimidation is relentless and very serious. The issues are well known by all levels of management and we had been told by a very senior member of an etb not to be talking outside in public places! Yes, staggering stuff considering everything that's been going on in other areas of public life.

    Op - I hope we have someone on here who can add something and best of luck to you and your fellow ordinary teachers who simply want to go in a do your job to the very best of your ability


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    #23
    Icsics
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Icsics


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    You can see why the make-up of BOMs needs to be looked at esp. after Michael Colgan and his running of the BOM.

    For sure, the Principal basically picks the BOM & chairperson. We had the same Chair for 15 yrs (was doing the P's bidding) until we had an MLL. Then we had ERST defending the length of time & dressing it up as 'continuity'


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    #24
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    Icsics wrote: »
    For sure, the Principal basically picks the BOM & chairperson. We had the same Chair for 15 yrs (was doing the P's bidding) until we had an MLL. Then we had ERST defending the length of time & dressing it up as 'continuity'

    Couldn't agree more. I know of a case where a complaint against the Principal stated that he/she wasn't following the schools own policy on an issue. The Principal removed the relevant policy, changed it to suit his/her needs and forged chairpersons signature.
    As many of our staff want to move to another school, it's a Catch 22, complain and you may not receive a good reference.

    Principals should have a different union.


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    #25
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Icsics wrote: »
    For sure, the Principal basically picks the BOM & chairperson.
    Only if you have a weak patron, or patron body. What kind of Patron lets the Principal away with packing the BoM?


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    #26
    Icsics
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Icsics


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Only if you have a weak patron, or patron body. What kind of Patron lets the Principal away with packing the BoM?

    Most of them as far as I know! The 'ERST Representatives' on our BOM are chosen by the Principal & rubber stamped by ERST


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    #27
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Who is the Patron?


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    #28
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Anyone hear about the craic going on with bullying and harassment in the NCCA? I caught a brief bit on radio 1 but couldn't find any follow up stories in the media.


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    #29
    SnrInfant
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭SnrInfant


    ethical wrote: »
    Unfortunately the Union are FCUK all good (or perhaps its the actual officer dealing with the case that was at fault),when it comes to assisting the teacher(s) that is /are being bullied.The advice was follow procedure,fill in grievance forms etc,etc,which were a fat lot of good when nothing happened.The perpetrator got a more senior Union official to counteract the procedures being taken,the ETB were running scared of this and kicked the can down the road with Mediation (sh1t) which benefited no one.(From an ETB point of view it ticked boxes,that was them covered!),and the rest of us could just f off for our troubles.Natural wastage sorted the problem in the end but not before some careers were totally destroyed with no come back

    The exact same thing is happening in my school at the minute. ETB school.
    They know exactly what the Principal is like and are trying to brush it under the carpet! Without giving out too much information, he has form for this. Big bullying case of his was in the National Papers before he came to our school.

    Absolute nightmare of a man to deal with, rude, obnoxious, extremely controlling, sits in his office all day long with ‘do not disturb’ sign on the door watching staff on his cameras. Runs out to catch them if they are talking or going in the wrong direction!

    Undermines teachers and Deputy (who is lovely but can’t do her job because of his controlling ways).

    He has been reported to unions and Head Office more times than I can count and still nothing is being done about it.

    Morale is so low, student behaviour is completely out of control. He doesn’t support teachers when they try to discipline unruly students, so they have given up.

    Our school was one of the best in the County until he took over and no one gives a ****!! 😡😡


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    #30
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    I'm really sorry for your troubles but unfortunately most ETBs are NOT fit for purpose nowadays.

    They have forgotten that the frontline,ie,the students and the teachers are and should remain the most important in any school.

    They (etbs) are more interested in keeping the "yes" men and women happy with "extras" and do not really give a fcuk about the Wellbeing of their frontline!
    Remember without the students those institutions would not exist.Its time to wake up and smell the coffee before its too late.

    A cull is needed NOW!


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    #31
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭Treppen


    SnrInfant wrote: »
    The exact same thing is happening in my school at the minute. ETB school.
    They know exactly what the Principal is like and are trying to brush it under the carpet! Without giving out too much information, he has form for this. Big bullying case of his was in the National Papers before he came to our school.

    Absolute nightmare of a man to deal with, rude, obnoxious, extremely controlling, sits in his office all day long with ‘do not disturb’ sign on the door watching staff on his cameras. Runs out to catch them if they are talking or going in the wrong direction!

    Undermines teachers and Deputy (who is lovely but can’t do her job because of his controlling ways).

    He has been reported to unions and Head Office more times than I can count and still nothing is being done about it.

    Morale is so low, student behaviour is completely out of control. He doesn’t support teachers when they try to discipline unruly students, so they have given up.

    Our school was one of the best in the County until he took over and no one gives a ****!! 😡😡

    Teachers should organise a work to rule, or 'blue flu' en masse.


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