Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

Graces7 · 20-08-2019 7:08pm

Sleepy wrote: »

I've often wondered why we treat the OAPs so well. As the one's who've gotten to vote most often, they're literally the demographic most to blame for the problems of the state (and often those who've benefited most from it's corruption).

Yet rather than blame them for the sins of crooks they elected, we treat them as being as agent-less as innocent children

:eek:

We are still vulnerable in old age. Which is what matters. especially the lower earners and disabled

Graces7 · 20-08-2019 7:15pm

Sleepy wrote: »

I've often wondered why we treat the OAPs so well. As the one's who've gotten to vote most often, they're literally the demographic most to blame for the problems of the state (and often those who've benefited most from it's corruption).

Yet rather than blame them for the sins of crooks they elected, we treat them as being as agent-less as innocent children

sire we do. many die each winter alone and are left to rot, literally. as no one cares. many are left to rot in substandard nursing homes, suffering abuse. old man this week assaulted for asking a neighnbour to turn music down.

Graces7 · 20-08-2019 7:16pm

so the answer to the OPs question? Going by the granny bashing attitudes here, indeed yes we old folk are at serious risk.

gctest50 · 20-08-2019 9:41pm

Graces7 wrote: »

really? I have never used public transport in Ireland and not been near a dr for many years.

........

Prescriptions last 6 months

The other day you posted you get codeine now

Graces7 wrote: »

.........

I get codeine now but it was a battle.

20-08-2019 10:08pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Prescriptions last 6 months

The other day you posted you get codeine now

And what exactly is your problem with that ?
It’s a tribute to Graces if Codeine is the only medication she is on (many people half her age are on more due to obesity and unhealthy lifestyles)....she is one healthy woman. Having a script for Codeine doesn’t mean she is getting free public transport every week to see her GP for free visits .......unlike many young mothers with 3&4 kids who are in every week because of the free under 5 healthcare.

One day you will be older and you will be feel entitled to a state pension and free medical care when you can no longer work and earn money, and when you could be alone, widowed, children grown and living abroad, unable to cook or even light a fire, unable to take care of yourself through illness or immobility . We would all be lucky to age as well as Graces and to be so appreciative of nature, the seasons, and the simple life she enjoys now (on nothing more than a few Codeine) .

Compassion for our older population is something very few of us begrudge . We are all heading in the same direction and we have all paid heavy PRSI contributions for our lifetimes through work into a system that rightfully should allow for a state pension and free medical care . It’s called looking after more vulnerable people in society and looking at the bigger picture , not just at your own perspective.

gctest50 · 20-08-2019 10:46pm

That's some bit of ranty deflection in a post

Anyway - why didn't you focus on this part :

gctest50 wrote: »

Prescriptions last 6 months

[.] Yes

[.] No

Codeine is prescription-only ? no ?

How do you get a prescription for an addicitive substance without being near a doctor for many years ?

Graces7 wrote: »

not been near a dr for many years.

........

I'm genuinely interested how this happens

.

Portsalon · 20-08-2019 10:47pm

Graces7 wrote: »

so the answer to the OPs question? Going by the granny bashing attitudes here, indeed yes we old folk are at serious risk.

You could always return to Boris's land flowing with milk and honey. They know how to cosset OAPs there!

Portsalon · 20-08-2019 10:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

we have all paid heavy PRSI contributions for our lifetimes through work

:eek: In that case, why the need for the non-contributory pension?

screamer · 20-08-2019 10:52pm

We won’t get to retire, there’ll be no pension slush fund and no one to pay our pensions. We’ll work till we drop ala US where old grannies are packing bags in Walmart.

Gary Owen · 20-08-2019 10:53pm

Portsalon wrote: »

You could always return to Boris's land flowing with milk and honey. They know how to cosset OAPs there!

Not very nice .

r93kaey5p2izun · 20-08-2019 11:37pm

Codeine is not prescription only. It is available over the counter following consultation with pharmacist.

20-08-2019 11:38pm

Portsalon wrote: »

:eek: In that case, why the need for the non-contributory pension?

I was speaking for myself in my fifties and working all my life .......plus I’d say very few older people spent their lives on the dole and claiming disability and OPFP. That’s more a thing in today’s culture . Most older people have earned their pension.

A huge amount of people today who are long term unemployed whether through choice or circumstances , will get the non contributory pension regardless of never paying contributions. That doesn’t do much to incentivize the rest of us to keep heading to work every day but that’s life and part of the society we live in . People need to be looked after regardless, no point in feeling hard done by .

Graces7 · 21-08-2019 5:28am

Samira Odd Machinery wrote: »

Codeine is not prescription only. It is available over the counter following consultation with pharmacist.

hilarious that they get like that! Never mind the reasoning; just attack! Really "mature".

Ignore list is growing to allow for sensible discussion

This is after hours stuff surely?

Thankfully no ranting here will change the legislation etc . Just hot air.

Oh there is a report out on this in today's news; could someone link please? Will give them fuel... Thank you

Graces7 · 21-08-2019 5:34am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They don't come close to putting in what they draw down in the vast majority of cases

The UK pension rate is about right, a couple receive less per individual, free travel restricted to local area

difference between UK pension and here? Ireland tops up and it comes to about E12 a week.... Be kind to old folk as one day you too may be old... IF you are lucky

Graces7 · 21-08-2019 5:38am

gctest50 wrote: »

That's some bit of ranty deflection in a post

Anyway - why didn't you focus on this part :

[.] Yes

[.] No

Codeine is prescription-only ? no ?

How do you get a prescription for an addicitive substance without being near a doctor for many years ?

I'm genuinely interested how this happens

.

No you are not at all interested. Just your customary deflection tactics and to cover up your inaccuracies...

Maybe get back to the real issue here; of providing accommodation for an increased ageing population? Have a look at the news today please?

Graces7 · 21-08-2019 5:42am

Portsalon wrote: »

Odd; you are posting blank messages now? Interesting.

Have you any response to the thread theme ?

gctest50 · 21-08-2019 6:10am

Samira Odd Machinery wrote: »

Codeine is not prescription only. It is available over the counter following consultation with pharmacist.

codant, 30 or 60 mg codeine phosphate tablets etc won't be thrown out over the counter after a bit of a chat

You will get Paracetamol etc mixed with a bit of codeine after a chat

If you seriously abuse the paracetamol etc mixed one you will end up in hospital or dead from liver failure

Of course i am genuinely interested in how someone can get their hands on codeine

I couldn't care less if someone has gone to the chemists shop and bought a few Neurofen Plus

gctest50 · 21-08-2019 6:18am

Graces7 wrote: »

..........

Maybe get back to the real issue here; of providing accommodation for an increased ageing population? .........

That's what all this is about, all part of the picture-

since some of the aging population TODAY just can't manage because of substance addiction

Here it is :

Mad_maxx wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

But what kind?
They should be well able to manage on their pensions.

Substance addiction, ........

.

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 8:48am

gctest50 wrote: »

codant, 30 or 60 mg codeine phosphate tablets etc won't be thrown out over the counter after a bit of a chat

You will get Paracetamol etc mixed with a bit of codeine after a chat

If you seriously abuse the paracetamol etc mixed one you will end up in hospital or dead from liver failure

Of course i am genuinely interested in how someone can get their hands on codeine

I couldn't care less if someone has gone to the chemists shop and bought a few Neurofen Plus

You'll get 8mg codeine tablets over the counter, with 500mg of paracetamol.

As anyone who has ever had a back injury (or any other reason to be prescribed codeine) 8mg does nothing. Tylex for instance is a 60mg dose (2 tablets). That is prescription only.

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 8:51am

Graces7 wrote: »

really? I have never used public transport in Ireland and not been near a dr for many years.

and even if it were true? Old folk are vulnerable to all kinds of old age illnesses. And have every right to the medical care they need.
Just as you have.

If I have to get medical care I pay €25 to my doctor (€55-€30 VHI)
If it's semi urgent I can go to the swiftcare 6 times a year, €25 a pop (€125-€100 VHI)
If it's urgent life or death I can go to an A+E and be charged €100 a pop.
I then have to pay my VHI (currently ~€700 a year - €1400 paid by employer, I pay €700 BIK), and all prescription costs (current regular medication runs about €60 a month).

Pensioners get all of the above for free (or a measly token per prescription charge). Don't spout on about "rights" as if everyone is in the same boat.

Ursus Horribilis · 21-08-2019 9:03am

So, are we going to have alot(sic) of homeless pensioners? This seems to have veered off in a completely different direction.

L1011 · 21-08-2019 9:37am

This thread needs to be depersonalised and re-generalised or its completely pointless

Sleepy · 21-08-2019 9:53am

Graces7 wrote: »

sire we do. many die each winter alone and are left to rot, literally. as no one cares. many are left to rot in substandard nursing homes, suffering abuse. old man this week assaulted for asking a neighnbour to turn music down.

We have one of the highest state pensions in the world and many additional welfare payments only available to the elderly (home heating, Warmer Homes scheme, free travel, free tv license etc.)

We have socialised health care (the HSE is far from perfect but it's there)

Pensioners receive more assistance than the unemployed, regardless of whether they've ever paid any tax in their lives.

No, our social care systems aren't perfect and bad people can target the elderly as easy victims for abuse but it's utterly undeniable that our taxation and welfare systems give pensioners preferential treatment even if they've never contributed a cent in taxation in their lives.

That's pretty galling for those of us paying for this largess, particularly when you consider that it's unlikely that many of our generation will ever receive a state pension due to the mismanagement of the state by politicians elected by those same pensioners since the foundation of the state.

Those of pensionable age at the moment, and those reaching that milestone in the next decade or so have nothing to fear. It's their children and grandchildren who'll be the ones finding themselves homeless in their old age. I had originally ended the last sentence with "when they become pensioners" but the sad reality is that most of us are woefully under-prepared in terms of our pension planning and it's most likely we'll have to work until the day we die.

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 9:56am

Sleepy wrote: »

We have one of the highest state pensions in the world and many additional welfare payments only available to the elderly (home heating, Warmer Homes scheme, free travel, free tv license etc.)

We have socialised health care (the HSE is far from perfect but it's there)

Pensioners receive more assistance than the unemployed, regardless of whether they've ever paid any tax in their lives.

No, our social care systems aren't perfect and bad people can target the elderly as easy victims for abuse but it's utterly undeniable that our taxation and welfare systems give pensioners preferential treatment even if they've never contributed a cent in taxation in their lives.

That's pretty galling for those of us paying for this largess, particularly when you consider that it's unlikely that many of our generation will ever receive a state pension due to the mismanagement of the state by politicians elected by those same pensioners since the foundation of the state.

Here here
Got it in a nutshell.

c.p.w.g.w · 21-08-2019 10:02am

How could a government justify removal of the state pension to folks to have over 40-50 years of tax contributions to the state?

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 10:03am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

How could a government justify removal of the state pension to folks to have over 40-50 years of tax contributions to the state?

Means test?
TBH it's one of my biggest concerns about private pensions.
Houses are safer investments than pension funds.

21-08-2019 10:07am

ELM327 wrote: »

Means test?
TBH it's one of my biggest concerns about private pensions.
Houses are safer investments than pension funds.

The number of people with a private pension large enough to sustain them will surely be tiny. Between my and my employer contributions I'm putting 12% of my salary into my pension and that isn't enough. I'm guessing that's more than most people.

c.p.w.g.w · 21-08-2019 10:08am

ELM327 wrote: »

Means test?
TBH it's one of my biggest concerns about private pensions.
Houses are safer investments than pension funds.

Your concerns about private pension is it:
* The loss of investment
* the taxation once you drawdown
* The fact you have one might disadvantage you with regards state aid once in retirement

c.p.w.g.w · 21-08-2019 10:10am

Jason Limited Gent wrote: »

The number of people with a private pension large enough to sustain them will surely be tiny. Between my and my employer contributions I'm putting 12% of my salary into my pension and that isn't enough. I'm guessing that's more than most people.

My employer won't make contributions, I have looked at roughly 12 other roles near me. None of those companies offer pension contributions either.

Would the government make employer contributions mandatory? Or is that even legal

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 10:14am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Your concerns about private pension is it:
* The loss of investment
* the taxation once you drawdown
* The fact you have one might disadvantage you with regards state aid once in retirement

my fears are twofold.
1 - government moneygrab (has already happened once)
2 - means test for the state pension which disqualifies me from that

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

My employer won't make contributions, I have looked at roughly 12 other roles near me. None of those companies offer pension contributions either.

Would the government make employer contributions mandatory? Or is that even legal

I work in fintech and all large companies in my field offer pension schemes. Currently mine is 7% gross contribution matched with 7% from the company.
I know of others that get 10% matched and doubled.

Portsalon · 21-08-2019 10:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

A huge amount of people today who are long term unemployed whether through choice or circumstances , will get the non contributory pension regardless of never paying contributions. That doesn’t do much to incentivize the rest of us to keep heading to work every day but that’s life and part of the society we live in . People need to be looked after regardless, no point in feeling hard done by .

So when you wrote "we have all paid heavy PRSI contributions for our lifetimes through work" you didn't really mean it?

Thanks for clearing that up.

Portsalon · 21-08-2019 10:28am

Graces7 wrote: »

Odd; you are posting blank messages now? Interesting.

No I wasn't. Perhaps the coedine was misbehaving!

Geuze · 21-08-2019 10:31am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

My employer won't make contributions, I have looked at roughly 12 other roles near me. None of those companies offer pension contributions either.

Would the government make employer contributions mandatory? Or is that even legal

Auto-enrolment pensions are due by 2021 I think.

Three parties will contribute.

EE
ER
State

Geuze · 21-08-2019 10:34am

ELM327 wrote: »

If I have to get medical care I pay €25 to my doctor (€55-€30 VHI)
If it's semi urgent I can go to the swiftcare 6 times a year, €25 a pop (€125-€100 VHI)
If it's urgent life or death I can go to an A+E and be charged €100 a pop.
I then have to pay my VHI (currently ~€700 a year - €1400 paid by employer, I pay €700 BIK), and all prescription costs (current regular medication runs about €60 a month).

Pensioners get all of the above for free (or a measly token per prescription charge). Don't spout on about "rights" as if everyone is in the same boat.

Please note that:

everybody over 70 get s GP Visit card, yes
Medical Cards are not automatic for everybody over 70
the means-test for over 70s med Card is more generous, yes, true

c.p.w.g.w · 21-08-2019 10:42am

Geuze wrote: »

Auto-enrolment pensions are due by 2021 I think.

Three parties will contribute.

EE
ER
State

Actually do you have a link to how that is going to work?

Portsalon · 21-08-2019 10:42am

Geuze wrote: »

Auto-enrolment pensions are due by 2021 I think.

Three parties will contribute.

EE
ER
State

That's what is stated in the government's Roadmap for Pensions Reform document, published last year (and well worth a read, if you've the time and the interest). But there is already significant slippage in producing the promised TCA legislation, due to come into effect on 01/01/2020, so I wouldn't be very confident about the 2021 target date being achieved.

21-08-2019 11:04am

ELM327 wrote: »

I work in fintech and all large companies in my field offer pension schemes. Currently mine is 7% gross contribution matched with 7% from the company.
I know of others that get 10% matched and doubled.

10% doubled? Who is offering that?

ELM327 · 21-08-2019 11:14am

Jason Limited Gent wrote: »

10% doubled? Who is offering that?

it's a rumor as I don't work there only heard from someone.
the only certainty is my own 7% + 7%

21-08-2019 11:31am

ELM327 wrote: »

it's a rumor as I don't work there only heard from someone.
the only certainty is my own 7% + 7%

Mine is 4%+8% which is pretty nice but 10% sounds nuts if they're doubling it.

L1011 · 21-08-2019 11:48am

Portsalon wrote: »

No I wasn't. Perhaps the coedine was misbehaving!

Stop it

Portsalon · 21-08-2019 11:52am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Actually do you have a link to how that is going to work?

You can read what is being proposed here:

https://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/pdf/PensionsRoadmap.pdf

More (or less!) specifically:

The exact ratio of contributions is to be determined during the design phase. As an example, starting from a modest base and automatically escalating on a scheduled basis over a period of time, employers could be asked to match worker contributions euro for euro subject to an eventual upper limit on employer contributions of 6% of gross salary.

Similarly, the State might match worker contributions on a 1:3 basis. Under such a scenario a worker making a personal contribution of 6% of
salary would see that contribution matched by an employer contribution of 6% and a State contribution of 2% bringing the total contribution into the fund to 14% of salary.

Any contributions made by the State will replace, rather than augment existing tax reliefs.

Mad_maxx · 21-08-2019 12:29pm

Sleepy wrote: »

We have one of the highest state pensions in the world and many additional welfare payments only available to the elderly (home heating, Warmer Homes scheme, free travel, free tv license etc.)

We have socialised health care (the HSE is far from perfect but it's there)

Pensioners receive more assistance than the unemployed, regardless of whether they've ever paid any tax in their lives.

No, our social care systems aren't perfect and bad people can target the elderly as easy victims for abuse but it's utterly undeniable that our taxation and welfare systems give pensioners preferential treatment even if they've never contributed a cent in taxation in their lives.

That's pretty galling for those of us paying for this largess, particularly when you consider that it's unlikely that many of our generation will ever receive a state pension due to the mismanagement of the state by politicians elected by those same pensioners since the foundation of the state.

Those of pensionable age at the moment, and those reaching that milestone in the next decade or so have nothing to fear. It's their children and grandchildren who'll be the ones finding themselves homeless in their old age. I had originally ended the last sentence with "when they become pensioners" but the sad reality is that most of us are woefully under-prepared in terms of our pension planning and it's most likely we'll have to work until the day we die.

This is a golden age for the elderly

Mad_maxx · 21-08-2019 12:33pm

Geuze wrote: »

Please note that:
everybody over 70 get s GP Visit card, yes

Medical Cards are not automatic for everybody over 70

the means-test for over 70s med Card is more generous, yes, true

A couple over seventy receive a medical card each unless their combined income is in excess of 900 euro per week, very few over seventies don't qualify, the combined income pre 2008 was 1400 per week

Mad_maxx · 21-08-2019 12:36pm

The likes of Willie o dea is an enemy of the tax payer with his constant demand for a higher state pension

I never hear him discuss anything else

Portsalon · 21-08-2019 1:38pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The likes of Willie o dea is an enemy of the tax payer with his constant demand for a higher state pension

I never hear him discuss anything else

He's playing to his gallery, and very few of Willie's core voters have ever paid for anything in their lives apart from alcohol and cigarettes.

Experience_day · 21-08-2019 4:12pm

Jason Limited Gent wrote: »

Mine is 4%+8% which is pretty nice but 10% sounds nuts if they're doubling it.

My old place was 18% (6% from me). Longer service meant 27% (9% from myself).

Geuze · 21-08-2019 11:53pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

A couple over seventy receive a medical card each unless their combined income is in excess of 900 euro per week, very few over seventies don't qualify, the combined income pre 2008 was 1400 per week

Correct, and AFAIK only one of them must be over 70.

My father was working, aged between 60-65, jobshare I think, on about 35k, and got the full GMS med card, as the mother was 70.

Are we going to have alot of homeless pensioners?

Comments