Covid-19 likely to be man made

geospatial · 07-06-2021 4:43pm

So now it appears there was a report from May of 2020 from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory warning that the Covid-19 virus could have leaked from a lab. It was classified as top secret and not shared broadly with Congress.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/covid-lab-leak-theory-classified-report/index.html

patnor1011 · 07-06-2021 5:02pm

Not only that, evidence of zoonotic origin simply do not exist, there are only possible scenarios offered of how it could have happened. (contrary to astrofool constantly claiming that we have some)
Also talk type "this is not how science is working" is funny considering what is coming out from released emails and little investigative work.
Say, for example how esteemed Kristian G. Anderson who in February contacted Fauci with concerns about how he and his team found evidence of gain of function manipulation of virus then had a change of heart after some chat and well, after some nice grant money came his way. And now since zoonotic transmission is not the only gig in town he had a little change of heart again and nuked his whole twitter.

More and more scientists coming out as they now do not need to be afraid of losing funding or career if they try to employ science and not simply adhere to "consensus" or better said politics.
Now apparently the science suggest Wuhan lab leak. Well according to scientists and Wall Street Journal.

The Science Suggests a Wuhan Lab Leak
The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

A little summary:
*********************
Dr. Stephen Quay and Berkeley physics professor Richard Muller revealed the findings in The Wall Street Journal Sunday, noting that “The most compelling reason to favor the lab leak hypothesis is firmly based in science.”

The scientists added that “COVID-19 has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.”

The research points to the genome sequencing of the virus ‘CGG-CGG’, which is one of 36 sequencing patterns observed, but does not occur in nature.

“The CGG-CGG combination has never been found naturally. That means the common method of viruses picking up new skills, called recombination, cannot operate here,” the scientists assert.

“A virus simply cannot pick up a sequence from another virus if that sequence isn’t present in any other virus,” they add, while also noting that the CGG-CGG combination IS commonly used in ‘gain of function’ research, which is known to have been used with coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

The scientists urge that those who believe COVID-19 jumped from animals to humans “must explain why it happened to pick its least favorite combination: CGG-CGG.”

They further ask for an explanation as to “Why did it replicate the choice the lab’s gain-of-function researchers would have made?”

“Yes, it could have happened randomly, through mutations. But do you believe that?” the authors of the study ask, adding “At the minimum, this fact—that the coronavirus, with all its random possibilities, took the rare and unnatural combination used by human researchers—implies that the leading theory for the origin of the coronavirus must be laboratory escape.”

This latest study comes on the heels of a revitalised focus on scientific research by Professor Angus Dalgleish of St George’s Hospital, University of London and Norwegian virologist Birger Sorensen which presents compelling evidence suggesting the virus was manufactured in a laboratory.

As the scientists noted, they were ostracised and ignored until recently when intelligence findings revealed that workers at the Wuhan lab fell sick with COVID-19 symptoms in November 2019.

As the global pandemic unfolded, scores of scientists came forward suggesting the genome sequencing of the virus was unnatural, and should be further investigated. The lab leak theory was effectively shut down, however, when scientists led by Dr Peter Daszak “orchestrated a ‘bullying’ campaign and coerced top scientists into signing off on a letter to The Lancet journal aimed at removing blame for Covid-19 from the Wuhan lab he was funding with US money.”

Daszak, who keeps appearing as the lead figure in investigations of the research he funded with US grant money via his own organisation, reportedly used his influence to get The Lancet to publish the letter, which stated that to even suggest the lab leak theory had any credibility was equal to spreading “fear, rumours, and prejudice.”

The release of Dr Fauci’s emails has also reconfirmed that Fauci was discussing the lab leak scenario with other scientists, and knew full well that it was a distinct possibility, despite making statements to the contrary in public, before any robust scientific research into the matter had been carried out.

****************
I do not care if it is Chinese, American, Russian or any other country lab. Problem is that research like this is done behind closed doors without proper precautions and proper overseeing. The only thing positive in this whole mess is that this virus thankfully is far from what models predicted over a year ago but still I have no doubt that some "scientists" are even now engaged in similar research and possibly creating something 100x worse than this current virus.

geospatial · 07-06-2021 5:45pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

Say, for example how esteemed Kristian G. Anderson who in February contacted Fauci with concerns about how he and his team found evidence of gain of function manipulation of virus then had a change of heart after some chat and well, after some nice grant money came his way. And now since zoonotic transmission is not the only gig in town he had a little change of heart again and nuked his whole twitter.

The Anderson paper is interesting because literally everyone who claims it "proves" natural origin and excludes lab leak references it. It's the paper most quoted on this thread and the paper quoted by most media in early 2020, and still quoted by many today.

It doesn't prove anything, it's an opinion piece not a research paper. The two claims it makes to exclude manipulation are extremely questionable. The first claim is that the virus is not optimally for binding to a human ACE2 cell and if it were engineered it would be optimal. This is nonsense, if you were building a virus from scratch or trying to make a bioweapon it might be true, but that's not what these labs are doing. They are trying to add functionality to existing coronaviruses to see if they will better infect humans, they are not trying to make the perfect virus. The techniques they use are passaging and gene splicing of existing virus segments, these by definition would not be optimal.

The second claim is that if there had been manipulation the backbone used in the virus would be known, as in already published. But this is also nonsense, the WIV have collected hundreds of coronaviruses and we have no idea how many they have sequenced and not published. For example RaTG13 could be the backbone or one of the other 8 similar viruses that were collected in Yunnan in 2013 or others collected since. This was dismissed by Peter Daszak who said they never sequenced RaTG13 prior to 2020, until it was pointed out that not alone had they but they admitted it, and he then said he was "misinformed". This is the same guy who during the WHO investigation in Feb 2021 said there was no need to look at their data because he already knew everything they were doing.

The biggest issue with the article though is the statement right at the beginning "our analysis clearly shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus". No credible scientist would make such a strong claim so early and with so little information. Two weeks after writing to say it looked engineered, and he now says he was initially mistaken. Having said that he doesn't deserve some of the attacks coming his way, like advice to get lawyered up. It looks more likely that he was pressured after writing his email to Fauci and his letter to Nature magazine was in response to pressure.

07-06-2021 5:55pm

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/scientists-were-pushing-real-covid-19-conspiracy-devine/

gormdubhgorm · 07-06-2021 6:02pm

Any real evidence come to light yet to prove any theory of a covid19 conspiracy? Personally I would like to blame Meath or Kerry. If someone could point to some Meath or Kerry Covid19 conspiracy I wouldn't be surprised at all. 'Typical!' I would say!

Sure isn't Sean Boylan into creating all sorts of home made potions, and Paidi O'Sé believed in piseógs and fairy forts. No smoke without fire I say!

07-06-2021 6:04pm

I'd imagine a kerry variant would be pretty bad..

07-06-2021 6:05pm

Although calling it a kerry variant is probably racist..

ClosedAccountFuzzy · 07-06-2021 6:06pm

What raises suspicion for me is the lack of cooperation on the investigation. I know there’s a culture of control, cover up and attributing blame in many structures in organisations that are managed top down. You see it in authoritarian governments and you see it in private organisations that put reputation ahead of all else.

A failure might be punished instead of investigated and learned from. This was very true in the Soviet system and is what created the circumstances for the Chernobyl disaster, for example.

It could simply be a face saving issue, but from an outside perspective it looks and smells like there’s something been hidden, otherwise the investigation led by the WHO would have been more open & there would have been an openness to bringing in other countries’ experts and working openly and transparently in to figure out what happened.

Instead we had a PR drive, often a rather crude one and a closing out of anyone investigating.

The whole thing is also mired in Trump administration side swipes at China and the WHO, which didn’t really engender an atmosphere of helpful cooperation and transparency either. The US was hardly (and probably still isn’t) a neutral or helpful partner in an investigation if you’re looking from China’s point of view.

I mean if you were a Chinese official, would you want a Trump driven team involved?! You’d want to be off your rocker!

It’s somewhere some of the European countries might be able to offer more neutral perspective tbh.

Whether there’s fire creating the smoke is another question, but there’s certainly plenty of smoke.

In a more sane international relations environment, say a decade or more ago, I think this would have been much less problematic. We’d have had answers and far less suspicion and hot air by now.

Timberrrrrrrr · 07-06-2021 6:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/scientists-were-pushing-real-covid-19-conspiracy-devine/

Oh look, another link dump of an opinion piece with no context of thier own to add :rolleyes:

Mullaghteelin · 07-06-2021 6:15pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Oh look, another link dump of an opinion piece with no context of thier own to add :rolleyes:

If posters constantly demand links from reputable sources, why criticize when such links are provided?
You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
Or, there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

Mic 1972 · 07-06-2021 6:19pm

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

If posters constantly demand links from reputable sources, why criticize when such links are provided?
You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
Or, there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

Can we frame this post?

07-06-2021 6:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Although calling it a kerry variant is probably racist..

It would definitely be of zoonotic origin, traced back to some lad interfering with a sheep..

Igotadose · 07-06-2021 6:22pm

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

If posters constantly demand links from reputable sources, why criticize when such links are provided?
You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
Or, there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

NY post? Reputable? Pull the other one

Mic 1972 · 07-06-2021 6:23pm

astrofool wrote: »

trump tried to blame China because he's a xenophobe and was trying to deflect attention from his utter incompetence, there is mountains of evidence of this, even Fauci, who for some reason all the trumpeters are now lauding as their savior on this, completely disagreed with basically everything he did around COVID with trump publicly disparaging him multiple times and making multiple threats to fire him.

The mere fact that you have a strong bias against Trump and are making this all about politics is enough evidence that you are not open to any truth. That's what makes your arguments so empty

Timberrrrrrrr · 07-06-2021 6:26pm

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

If posters constantly demand links from reputable sources, why criticize when such links are provided?
You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
Or, there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

How is an opinion piece considered to be a reputable source?

Igotadose · 07-06-2021 6:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It would definitely be of zoonotic origin, traced back to some lad interfering with a sheep..

Hilarious. Are you here all week?

Timberrrrrrrr · 07-06-2021 6:28pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Can we frame this post?

So you're saying that opinion pieces should be taken seriously? And it's OK to just dump a link to an opinion piece as some sort of "see!!!...look!!!" Moment? :rolleyes:

jackboy · 07-06-2021 6:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/scientists-were-pushing-real-covid-19-conspiracy-devine/

This is a problem which has got worse over time, the mixing of science and politics. Anytime you see a report that a bunch of scientists have signed a letter about whatever, ignore it, that is just a politics and likely someone went to the scientists and ‘encouraged’ them to sign.

Igotadose · 07-06-2021 6:38pm

jackboy wrote: »

This is a problem which has got worse over time, the mixing of science and politics. Anytime you see a report that a bunch of scientists have signed a letter about whatever, ignore it, that is just a politics and likely someone went to the scientists and ‘encouraged’ them to sign.

Miranda Devine is a nutter working for Murdoch. Her 'editorials' are just crap bottom feeding junk for the Post, which is Murdoch's 'all fear all the time' flagship, with boobs (page 6.) Basically, the Sun for NYC.

Though, the Sports section is o.k. if you are a fan of NY sports teams (as I am.)

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of that editorial board, especially Devine.

A couple of her other headlines:

"It's been a year of Antifa and unchecked anarchy"
"Nancy Pelosi doesn’t care about the truth"

Since Steve Dunleavy died, Murdoch needed someone from Oz to write incendiary nonsense. Cue Miranda Devine (yakkiting about US politics from Sydney.)

07-06-2021 6:41pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Hilarious. Are you here all week?

Oooohhh...
We have someone from kerry in the audience..

cnocbui · 07-06-2021 6:59pm

Igotadose wrote: »

NY post? Reputable? Pull the other one

The quality of the publication or it's considered reputation with individual boardsies is irrelevant. It's fallacious reasoning of the worst kind. You often get it if anyone posts a link to something in the Daily Mail.

The container doesn't invalidate or spoil the contents. If The DM or NYP quote or report on a paper originally published in a recognised journal, that does not demean or taint the original paper.

Someone tried this on me earlier, claiming XYZ publication was reliant on advertising revenue from ABC, with the attempted implication the numbers quoted were therefore questionable. What was being reported by XYZ were government revenue figures, which are readily verifiable. The numbers are either correct or they are not - they are not made incorrect because of who reported them or where they get their funding. Trying to invalidate the message by claiming taint of the messenger is age old, but it's a completely worthless and tiresome form of deflection.

jackboy · 07-06-2021 7:12pm

cnocbui wrote: »

The container doesn't invalidate or spoil the contents. If The DM or NYP quote or report on a paper originally published in a recognised journal, that does not demean or taint the original paper.

It wasn’t a scientific paper though. It was a political letter that scientists were asked to sign.

astrofool · 07-06-2021 7:14pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The mere fact that you have a strong bias against Trump and are making this all about politics is enough evidence that you are not open to any truth. That's what makes your arguments so empty

You asked for proof that trump is a xenophobe, it was provided, if you don't want to see trump disparaged maybe don't ask for obvious examples of things he's done.

geospatial wrote: »

So now it appears there was a report from May of 2020 from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory warning that the Covid-19 virus could have leaked from a lab. It was classified as top secret and not shared broadly with Congress.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/covid-lab-leak-theory-classified-report/index.html

That report doesn't really say anything new other than say that it could have been a lab leak based on an opinion rather than any direct evidence of such. I could definitely see the trump administration as taking that statement and claiming it as evidence.

Mic 1972 · 07-06-2021 7:17pm

astrofool wrote: »

You asked for proof that trump is a xenophobe, it was provided, if you don't want to see trump disparaged maybe don't ask for obvious examples of things he's done.

No mate, i asked for proof that Trump made this up because he is xenophobe, which you clearly don't have.
Your personal political view is not relevant to the subject matter.

patnor1011 · 07-06-2021 7:17pm

Tenger wrote: »

I think I might prefer Covid rather than reading much more of that word salad.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I have stated several times in my posts on boards that English is not my first language. I would not wish to you or anyone else to have such derogatory primitive statement thrown at when try to debate in foreign language.
I would not go and claim that people here are racist or xenophobic based on post like you just made. I just find it little strange that moderator can go ahead and insult people I always thought moderators should be above such things.
So again I am sorry if I offended you in any way I will try to get better in my command of english language.

cnocbui · 07-06-2021 7:19pm

jackboy wrote: »

It wasn’t a scientific paper though. It was a political letter than scientists were asked to sign.

Few people seem to have minded about that when it was anthropogenic global warming and it was hundreds of them signing off on the rantings of the UN climate change politburo.

astrofool · 07-06-2021 7:25pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

No mate, i asked for proof that Trump made this up because he is xenophobe, which you clearly don't have.
Your personal political view is not relevant to the subject matter.

Again, the absence of evidence from the trump administration (despite claiming they had evidence multiple times) and trumps blaming the virus on China along with the proven xenophobia and a need to deflect attention from their own incompetence points to trump making it up.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide some.

geospatial · 07-06-2021 7:29pm

astrofool wrote: »

That report doesn't really say anything new other than say that it could have been a lab leak based on an opinion rather than any direct evidence of such. I could definitely see the trump administration as taking that statement and claiming it as evidence.

We don't know what the report said, the reporting on it is simply that it exists, and that it was circulated in May 2020 (which is new). All the CNN article says is there was a classified report from US government researchers sent to select US lawmakers (probably the Energy Subcommittee) in May of 2020. It doesn't give any details on what was in the report as it's classified, so we don't know what evidence it contained, but if it came from Lawrence Livermore it likely would have some evidence.

Mic 1972 · 07-06-2021 7:56pm

astrofool wrote: »

Again, the absence of evidence from the trump administration (despite claiming they had evidence multiple times) and trumps blaming the virus on China along with the proven xenophobia and a need to deflect attention from their own incompetence points to trump making it up.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide some.

so, as previously said, it is just your opinion

astrofool · 07-06-2021 8:59pm

geospatial wrote: »

We don't know what the report said, the reporting on it is simply that it exists, and that it was circulated in May 2020 (which is new). All the CNN article says is there was a classified report from US government researchers sent to select US lawmakers (probably the Energy Subcommittee) in May of 2020. It doesn't give any details on what was in the report as it's classified, so we don't know what evidence it contained, but if it came from Lawrence Livermore it likely would have some evidence.

Again, absence of evidence that something happened is not an argument that can be used to say it happened. However, I'm glad you brought this up as this is the one scenario where we can basically prove that this document contained no evidence.

The trump administration was the leakiest government administration there has ever been, everyone was whistleblowing on everyone else, the turnover in people was huge with positions constantly changing and shifting on a daily basis. We also know that trump wanted something, anything, no matter how slender, to try and pin the pandemic on the Chinese. The fact that within all that bluster, the false statements that there was not a single shred of real evidence brought up very strongly implies that there was no evidence at all that even the government had seen but hadn't been released publicly, if there was, we'd have known all about.

Of course there is a chance that trump saw evidence, claimed he had evidence yet never released it even though it would have helped his flagging election campaign. The chances of this being what actually happened would be infinitesimal, the confidence interval for there being no evidence of a lab leak found during the trump administration is very very high.

07-06-2021 9:11pm

astrofool wrote: »

Of course there is a chance that trump saw evidence, claimed he had evidence yet never released it even though it would have helped his flagging election campaign. The chances of this being what actually happened would be infinitesimal, the confidence interval for there being no evidence of a lab leak found during the trump administration is very very high.

The way you've built up 'he who shall not be named' as this sauron-esqe arch villain is ridiculous..
It's just so infantile?..
I can't blame you too much seeing as it was drilled into you for four years, but at this stage, you should probably try to move on from it..

astrofool · 07-06-2021 9:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The way you've built up 'he who shall not be named' as this sauron-esqe arch villain is ridiculous..
It's just so infantile?..
I can't blame you too much seeing as it was drilled into you for four years, but at this stage, you should probably try to move on from it..

The question is over whether the trump administration had information about a lab leak or man made COVID, it looks highly unlikely that they had any evidence but it's going to be hard to discuss it if people like you are too embarrassed by him to use his name anymore, and he's more of a bumbling fool than a villain anyway. Is that also why you keep running away from questions but only came back in to add snide comments or to defend the previous USA presidential administration?

geospatial · 07-06-2021 9:46pm

astrofool wrote: »

Of course there is a chance that trump saw evidence, claimed he had evidence yet never released it even though it would have helped his flagging election campaign. The chances of this being what actually happened would be infinitesimal, the confidence interval for there being no evidence of a lab leak found during the trump administration is very very high.

No, we know there was some evidence of a lab leak during the Trump administration because of the fact sheet that was released before Trump left office: "The US government has reasons to believe that several researchers inside the WIV fell ill in the fall of 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both Covid 19 and seasonal illnesses". This is the same evidence that was cited when the Biden administration recently launched their new investigation, so the new investigation is at least partly based on this older evidence.

Specifically on the Lawrence Livermore report, we know nothing of it's contents as per reporting it's classified as top secret and anyone disclosing it to the press would face serious criminal changes. Maybe the reporting is inaccurate, but if the basic reporting is right that a report was sent to the DOE then it almost certainly had evidence, as Lawrence Livermore have some of the top scientists (including genomics scientists), in the world and it's doubtful they would waste their time sending a report up the chain unless they had evidence.

As for Trump, who knows if he saw it or not, or even if he saw it in a daily briefing whether it would even register with him or mean anything to him. It's quite possible it never made it to him, maybe it wasn't seen at the time as important enough, or maybe someone thought he shouldn't see it (not that surprising due to his prior lapses with confidential intelligence).

07-06-2021 9:56pm

astrofool wrote: »

The question is over whether the trump administration had information about a lab leak or man made COVID, it looks highly unlikely that they had any evidence but it's going to be hard to discuss it if people like you are too embarrassed by him to use his name anymore, and he's more of a bumbling fool than a villain anyway. Is that also why you keep running away from questions but only came back in to add snide comments or to defend the previous USA presidential administration?

I see trying to discuss these things with a few of you as an exercise in futility..

As soon as he said it the entire media went against him..
Would you consider the lab worker's being hospitalised evidence?..
There were scientists saying it looked engineered..
You remember the WhatsApp propaganda campaign muddying the waters linking it to bat soup and the like, do you?..
The vanity fair article details in no uncertain terms a media cover up..

That Washington Post article was right..
Science as we knew it is dead, and its people like yourselves, who, even in light of now deemed more acceptable evidence, still cling to something for political reasons, who killed it..

What would you accept as evidence of it being a lab leak?..

astrofool · 07-06-2021 9:58pm

As I said, there is a remote chance it's possible, it's just doubtful, I'd certainly dismiss Livermore's report as having any factual evidence in it due to the timing of it. The most likely outcome is a rubber stamping of the previous report with a bit more detail on the lab and some statements blaming China for not being open and forthcoming with an investigation.

astrofool · 07-06-2021 10:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I see trying to discuss these things with a few of you as an exercise in futility..

As soon as he said it the entire media went against him..

Including OANN, Newsmax and Fox?

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you consider the lab worker's being hospitalised evidence?..

Not really, unless lab workers are never usually hospitalised with illnesses?

Deleted User wrote: »

There were scientists saying it looked engineered..

Who retracted those claims when the piece of evidence they relied on was wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

You remember the WhatsApp propaganda campaign muddying the waters linking it to bat soup and the like, do you?..
The vanity fair article details in no uncertain terms a media cover up..

It also provides no evidence.

Deleted User wrote: »

That Washington Post article was right..
Science as we knew it is dead, and its people like yourselves, who, even in light of now deemed more acceptable evidence, still cling to something for political reasons, who killed it..

What would you accept as evidence of it being a lab leak?..

There is no scientific evidence of the most studied virus in the world being man made. There is another investigation into the possibility of a lab leak after previous investigations ruled it out, there is no evidence actually pointing to this yet, but maybe the latest investigation will find some. My feeling is that if it doesn't, you will claim the latest investigation was not scientific. Will you accept the results of the Biden administration investigation?

geospatial · 07-06-2021 10:16pm

astrofool wrote: »

I'd certainly dismiss Livermore's report as having any factual evidence in it due to the timing of it.

Why? A report from Lawrence Livermore is likely to be a genomics report as that is their relevant expertise, they would have had five months to study the genome at that point. Remember that a research virologist had written an email suggesting an engineered virus after looking at the genome for a few weeks, although within a few more weeks he had retracted it and said the virus was natural.

It's all very murky, and maybe what you would expect with limited information. What seems to be emerging though is that there was an orchestrated campaign early on to create a narrative of natural origin, and perhaps that had a big impact on dismissing any conflicting data. Fauci was saying no lab leak for the past year and is now asking China for medical records, it's quite the about turn.

If it it turns out a lab leak is the more likely, it certainly wouldn't be the first time US intelligence has had a major failure.

Unicorn Milk Latte · 07-06-2021 10:32pm

geospatial wrote: »

No, we know there was some evidence of a lab leak during the Trump administration because of the fact sheet that was released before Trump left office: "The US government has reasons to believe that several researchers inside the WIV fell ill in the fall of 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both Covid 19 and seasonal illnesses".

So, when a person shows symptoms of Covid - cough, fever, headache - this is now 'evidence' that it actually is Covid?? Because, you know, there is really no other illness in the world that has similar symptoms?

The quote even says "both Covid-19 and seasonal illnesses".

Correlation is not causation.

Actual, real world evidence of a person being ill with Covid-19 is a positive PCR test.
Not someone coughing.

07-06-2021 10:34pm

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Actual, real world evidence of a person being ill with Covid-19 is a positive PCR test.
Not someone coughing.

And the person who developed said test maintained they were not fit for such usage..

geospatial · 07-06-2021 10:52pm

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

So, when a person shows Actual, real world evidence of a person being ill with Covid-19 is a positive PCR test.
Not someone coughing.

I was responding to a poster who said there was no evidence of a lab leak, that's why I used the words "some evidence" in my response.

The reporting is that three WIV researchers fell ill in autumn (US fact sheet) and were hospitalized in November (WSJ reporting). Sure it could have been something other than Covid, another infectious disease, the flu, pneumonia, etc. But it is one basis for the new investigation, and I am assuming it is the reason Fauci has asked for medical records of the 3 researchers.

It's not the only evidence that the outbreak started before the official date of early December, the WHO report said 90 people were hospitalized during the prior two months, something the CCP have been very consistent in denying.

All of this evidence points to the CCP trying to cover up that the outbreak started much earlier than they have claimed, which of course raises multiple issues on their culpability for a global pandemic.

astrofool · 07-06-2021 10:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And the person who developed said test maintained they were not fit for such usage..

So, what would that mean?

Unicorn Milk Latte · 07-06-2021 10:54pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

No mate, i asked for proof that Trump made this up because he is xenophobe, which you clearly don't have.

Yeah, it's really, really important to differentiate whether the motivation for the BS Trump says is racism, or because the lights are out and nobody's home, or he's in a bad mood, or having read something somewhere on the Internet, or repeating something he heard on Fox News (whose solicitors say 'it's all entertainment, nobody in his right mind would believe a word we broadcast'), or because Putin told him, or because MBS told him, or because he's 'making a joke' that no-one gets, like with injecting bleach.

Unicorn Milk Latte · 07-06-2021 11:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And the person who developed said test maintained they were not fit for such usage..

Source?

Last I heard from Drosten is that Covid PCR is still the gold standard, antigen tests are less reliable, but can be very useful in certain situations.

CRISPR tests are not yet available as of today.

To be clear of the context: it is not possible to diagnose Covid from symptoms alone.

And: the Covid-PCR test looks at nasopharyngeal samples. If you don't have those, you cannot perform the test - obviously...

geospatial · 07-06-2021 11:20pm

astrofool wrote: »

There is no scientific evidence of the most studied virus in the world being man made.

There is no direct scientific evidence, or compelling scientific evidence, for the natural origin or lab manipulated hypotheses. The only evidence we have is circumstantial evidence and the expert opinions of a variety of research virologists who have examined the genome and either stated their opinion publicly or written a paper. This is the lowest level of scientific evidence. As time has gone on there are more experts casting doubt on the natural origin hypothesis, and these people are not cranks, they are well respected credible scientists (Jesse Bloom, David Relman, Nikolei Petrosky, Alina Chan).

While zoonotic is logically the more likely, the biggest obstacle for zoononic emergence proponents to overcome is the fact that by the time SARS-2 was first detected in late Dec 2019, it was already pre adapted to human transmission, and looked more like a virus in later stages of a epidemic. So far we have found no precursors for a less human adapted virus, from animal or human testing, as you would expect to see for any zoononic disease. In a country which has been searching for SARS like viruses for almost two decades.

If you want to study the science and explore a view that contrasts with Kristian Anderson's hastily released letter to Nature, Alina Chan's actual research with Shing Hei Zang is a good starting point.

08-06-2021 7:40am

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Source?

...

https://www.bitchute.com/video/I34oouXAb7Dj/

The "fact" "checkers" have "debunked" it heavily on Google by the looks of things there though..

This guy (Nobel prize winner) was NOT a fan of Fauci..

08-06-2021 7:41am

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

To be clear of the context: it is not possible to diagnose Covid from symptoms alone.
...

That's how medicine always worked up until now..

Mic 1972 · 08-06-2021 8:16am

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Yeah, it's really, really important to differentiate whether the motivation for the BS Trump says is racism, or because the lights are out and nobody's home, or he's in a bad mood, or having read something somewhere on the Internet, or repeating something he heard on Fox News (whose solicitors say 'it's all entertainment, nobody in his right mind would believe a word we broadcast'), or because Putin told him, or because MBS told him, or because he's 'making a joke' that no-one gets, like with injecting bleach.

Bottom line, you can't proof that Trump made it up.
Trump jumped to conclusions using common sense and he landed very close to a likely truth

King Mob · 08-06-2021 8:52am

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Bottom line, you can't proof that Trump made it up.
Trump jumped to conclusions using common sense and he landed very close to a likely truth

Just like he did when he declared that Covid wasn't going to be a big deal.
And when it said that China made up global warming.
And when he said that Obama wasn't from Hawaii.
And when he said that the election was stolen...

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-06-2021 8:52am

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Bottom line, you can't proof that Trump made it up.
Trump jumped to conclusions using common sense and he landed very close to a likely truth

The words Trump and common sense have no reason to be in the same sentence together.

mcsean2163 · 08-06-2021 10:52am

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-report-concluded-covid-19-may-have-leaked-from-wuhan-lab-11623106982

WSJ discusses 2020 report from Z Division stating lab leak plausible.

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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